car retest at NCT

trixyben

car failed on one thing today drivers side headlight beam to high even though I got them aligned on Saturday!!! Bloody cars drive ya mad, I had to change 02 sensor, completely clean egr, change cranckshaft sensor, new back box exhaust, 2 new tyres, done all the work myself and the one thing to let me down was a garage mans job bloody raging!!!

anyhow, have to book car for retest and pay €28 just for them to retest the light alignment, I asked the tester if I could go across the road get them aligned again could I come back and get it tested there and then and there was no chance he was doing that, so has this happened anyone before? bit mean I think to pay a retest to checkl level of 1 light or do they test the whole car again?

no1beemerfan

They will only test on what it failed on if you bring it back within the 21 days.

mickdw

If they have to use the test lane, you pay. Its pretty fair. If its a visual, you dont pay. d be pretty pissed with the guy who aligned it for you though.

iceman777

Yeah, it happened me last December. My drivers side light was too high and I decided to get it fixed in the garage to ensure it was done right instead of me not aligning it correctly.

The bulb was actually swollen (faulty bulb) so the light was raised no matter what I would have done so even if I had done it myself, it would have failed a 2nd time.

I brought it back to the NCT centre and it passed, but it cost me €100 to get an NCT, bulb replacement and light alignmnet, and an NCT retest.

I do find it very unfair that something like that can fail the NCT. A little bit of pragmatism is seriously lacking from this company.

CiniO

trixyben wrote: »

car failed on one thing today drivers side headlight beam to high even though I got them aligned on Saturday!!! Bloody cars drive ya mad, I had to change 02 sensor, completely clean egr, change cranckshaft sensor, new back box exhaust, 2 new tyres, done all the work myself and the one thing to let me down was a garage mans job bloody raging!!!

That's why I set my lights before NCT myself

irishgrover

iceman777 wrote: »

Yeah, it happened me last December. My drivers side light was too high and I decided to get it fixed in the garage to ensure it was done right instead of me not aligning it correctly.

The bulb was actually swollen (faulty bulb) so the light was raised no matter what I would have done so even if I had done it myself, it would have failed a 2nd time.

I brought it back to the NCT centre and it passed, but it cost me €100 to get an NCT, bulb replacement and light alignmnet, and an NCT retest.

I do find it very unfair that something like that can fail the NCT. A little bit of pragmatism is seriously lacking from this company.

whilst I can understand your frustration, tbh imho it's a failable offence. it drives me fupping nuts when driving at night and there is a car behind me with misalligned headlights....
however I feel your pain: I was failed a few years ago 'cause one of my indicator bulbs was no "orange enough"

mickdw

iceman777 wrote: »

I do find it very unfair that something like that can fail the NCT. A little bit of pragmatism is seriously lacking from this company.

Of course light alignment should be a failure. Its not fun meeting cars with poorly aligned lights. It was a joke in the years before the test. No cars over a year or two old had proper lights

Anan1

trixyben wrote: »

anyhow, have to book car for retest and pay €28 just for them to retest the light alignment, I asked the tester if I could go across the road get them aligned again could I come back and get it tested there and then and there was no chance he was doing that, so has this happened anyone before? bit mean I think to pay a retest to checkl level of 1 light or do they test the whole car again?

I think the retest fee is fair enough, but i'd make whoever did the alignment pay it.

trixyben

CiniO wrote: »

That's why I set my lights before NCT myself

What way do you do it? I think I remember a way were you get car on level surface with lights shinning against a wall and take a measurement from the ground does that sound right?

CiniO

trixyben wrote: »

What way do you do it? I think I remember a way were you get car on level surface with lights shinning against a wall and take a measurement from the ground does that sound right?

Under your bonnet somewhere near your lights, there should be a small sticker showing the "lowering of light percentage" - usually between 0.8% to 1.5%.
In one of my cars it's 1%. In other it's 1.3%.

This shows you an angle at which lights should be adjusted.
F.E if it's 1% that means that for every 1metre away from the car, lights should go down by 1cm. If it's 1.3% then for every metre they should go down by 1.3cm.

I always position my car on flat surface, check heights of lights just near the car, and than I make sure they go down as required.

F.e. if they are at 60cm above the ground just near the car, and sticker says 1%, then they should be at 40cm height at 20m away from the car, and just on the ground 60m away from the car.

I never touched side adjustment, but there was never a need for it, as they give lights straight away.

In general if you are driving on dark road, you can say if your lights are adjusted properly or not.

aujopimur

I'd be going back to the garage and demanding a recheck and €28 for the retest.

trixyben

aujopimur wrote: »

I'd be going back to the garage and demanding a recheck and €28 for the retest.

this is exactly what i will be doing and i will be getting both!

aidanki

CiniO wrote: »

Under your bonnet somewhere near your lights, there should be a small sticker showing the "lowering of light percentage" - usually between 0.8% to 1.5%.
In one of my cars it's 1%. In other it's 1.3%.

This shows you an angle at which lights should be adjusted.
F.E if it's 1% that means that for every 1metre away from the car, lights should go down by 1cm. If it's 1.3% then for every metre they should go down by 1.3cm.

I always position my car on flat surface, check heights of lights just near the car, and than I make sure they go down as required.

F.e. if they are at 60cm above the ground just near the car, and sticker says 1%, then they should be at 40cm height at 20m away from the car, and just on the ground 60m away from the car.

I never touched side adjustment, but there was never a need for it, as they give lights straight away.

In general if you are driving on dark road, you can say if your lights are adjusted properly or not.

from the ground to the point of the bulb? be a good idea to take this measurement by day when bright and easy to see and wait until night time to do the focusing

what distance do you typically position the car back from the wall you are focusing the lights on, 20m as you mention in the post above or much less?

one other questions are the dims focused at the same angle as the main beam?

CiniO

aidanki wrote: »

from the ground to the point of the bulb? be a good idea to take this measurement by day when bright and easy to see and wait until night time to do the focusing

No. Not to the point of the bulb.
I always do it after dark. Just get a measuring tape and check the height of the light directly near the light. You should easily see the border on your measuring tape at what height is the highest point of light.

what distance do you typically position the car back from the wall you are focusing the lights on, 20m as you mention in the post above or much less?

I actually didn't use a wall. Just a long stretch of flat road. Then use measuring tape to check height of lights at certain distances from the car.
But that's only easy with projector lamps. If you have regular reflector lights you most likely will need a wall.
Distance is really irrelevant. Best is to checks at different distance to make sure all results match.

one other questions are the dims focused at the same angle as the main beam?

Probably depends on the car, by at both of mine they are separate. I didn't touch main beam.


PS - don't rely to much on my description, as maybe I'm doing it wrong.
It works for me, I'm not dazzling anyone, my car passes NCT and I can see enough of the road in front of me, but I still don't have guarantee it's right.

trixyben

went back to garage today told him what happened and he tried to say i must have hit a pot hole or bump in the road and then ust walked away from me, told him i wanted it done again free and the €28 retest cost, he wasnt having any off it....that was until 2 people came in looking tyres and I spoke loud and clear making sure all heard the situation and he wasnt to long asking me to drive car in to lane then feckin chancer..oh and i got the €28 for the test as well!

Dont know why some people or like that running a business, he has most defo lost me as a customer and I will certainly be warning anyone I know to stay away, there is plenty of these garages about without dealing with muppets!!!!!!!!!

User Friendly

trixyben wrote: »

went back to garage today told him what happened and he tried to say i must have hit a pot hole or bump in the road and then ust walked away from me, told him i wanted it done again free and the €28 retest cost, he wasnt having any off it....that was until 2 people came in looking tyres and I spoke loud and clear making sure all heard the situation and he wasnt to long asking me to drive car in to lane then feckin chancer..oh and i got the €28 for the test as well!

Dont know why some people or like that running a business, he has most defo lost me as a customer and I will certainly be warning anyone I know to stay away, there is plenty of these garages about without dealing with muppets!!!!!!!!!

well done! glad you got some bit of satisfaction from them.


Would i be right in thinking,if someone got their lights focused,then got say,60 litres of fuel,drove to the test centre,then wouldnt the lights be out of focus?

Buffman

Well done OP, good result.

Good luck with the re-test.

Avns1s

User Friendly wrote: »

well done! glad you got some bit of satisfaction from them.


Would i be right in thinking,if someone got their lights focused,then got say,60 litres of fuel,drove to the test centre,then wouldnt the lights be out of focus?

You wouldn't!

aujopimur

Well done, post when it passes.

CiniO

User Friendly wrote: »

Would i be right in thinking,if someone got their lights focused,then got say,60 litres of fuel,drove to the test centre,then wouldnt the lights be out of focus?

Could be, especially on cars with big tank located on the rear.

mickdw

CiniO wrote: »

Could be, especially on cars with big tank located on the rear.

There should be enough tolerance in the factory approved settings to allow the car with a full tank to still be legal IMO

Guy:Incognito

User Friendly wrote: »

Would i be right in thinking,if someone got their lights focused,then got say,60 litres of fuel,drove to the test centre,then wouldnt the lights be out of focus?

Certain cars have been known to have up to a ton of tiles in them and still be level.

CiniO

I just looked at NCT manual about headlights aim (chapter 31, page 49) and it looks like that there is huge tolerance.
Generally for cars with headlight centre not more than 85cm above the ground (that would be most passenger cars) the horizonal cut-off boundary must lie between 0.5% and 2%.
In example then if lights are located say at 80cm high from the ground, then your lights might shine for as far as 160m in front of the vehicle (with 0.5% setting) down to 40m in front of the vehicle (with 2% setting).
I'm actually shocked that tolerance is so big (between 40m and 160m in this particular example).
In that case if lights are set properly due to manufacturers recomendations (say 1%) they should be doing 80m in front of the vehicle, and even if you put a few bags of cement in the boot, they shouldn't go above the limit, not even mentioning full or empty tank.

That makes me wonder how could they fail in OP's case.
Only one possible solution is that mechanic didn't set them at all, or f.e forgot to adjust the vertical cut-off line position, or maybe didn't bother as the limit here is big as well (between 0% and 2%).

Where To

Do they test main beam in the test centres?

I've only ever been tested on dip.

CiniO

Where To wrote: »

Do they test main beam in the test centres?

I've only ever been tested on dip.

I don't think they do.

Syllabus

aujopimur wrote: »

I'd be going back to the garage and demanding a recheck and €28 for the retest.

trixyben wrote: »

this is exactly what i will be doing and i will be getting both!

i have lost count of the number of customers i've had come back to me that failed on alignment after i did it. 99% of the time the alignment is as it was when i adjusted it -perfect- and i explain to the customer that the nct have targets to hit and must hit a certain quota of retests per month, afaia, and if everything else is ok the lights are the easy fail. everytime i send my customers back WITHOUT re adjusting and they pass!!

dont be so quick to blame the person who adjusted it.

you know the way you do your last minute checks for oil and water and then close the bonnet - closing the bonnet cant knock the alignment off

Buffman

Where To wrote: »

Do they test main beam in the test centres?

I've only ever been tested on dip.

No, the mains just have to work, only dipped are tested.

Syllabus wrote: »

everytime i send my customers back WITHOUT re adjusting and they pass!!

I hope they get their retest fee back if that's the case.

Syllabus

Buffman wrote: »

.............
I hope they get their retest fee back if that's the case.

but you see this is where the nct have you over a barrel

you get the lights done 10 mins before the test and they fail and you say 'i just got them done' all the nct say is 'they failed on our machine'

you go off and get them checked and they are ok and you go back to the nct and say 'i got them checked and they're ok' all the nct say is 'they failed on our machine'

its a racket

barneygumble99

there is a tolerance of about 2 inches for dipped beams to be set at but 99% of garages set the lights at the highest possible height which gives no leverage if you hit a pothole or fill your car with diesel. why not just set the lights half an inch below the max height and then you have alllowed yourself some space. also very important that the interior adjuster is set to zero as its a common mistake for garages to set lights without checking this first. there's is a higher and lower limit and a big tolerance in between , if its 2mm above its a fail, get over it and pay the 28 euro retest. you cant expect testers to adjust your lights for you if they are slightly too high , what if the adjuster is broken and you see him fiddling with your lights and he cant get them right, first thing most people will do is accuse him of adjusting them to fail.

Anan1

Syllabus wrote: »

and i explain to the customer that the nct have targets to hit and must hit a certain quota of retests per month, afaia, and if everything else is ok the lights are the easy fail.

You'd have lost all credibility with me right there.:)

Syllabus

Anan1 wrote: »

You'd have lost all credibility with me right there.:)

i'm sure i wont be losing any sleep about that

however, if you are taking issue with me talking about the nct having targets/quotas then i got that from a supervisor of one of the centres that i trained with who i happened to bump into when returning with a car that had failed for this exact issue which then passed at the retest after no adjustment was done since it 'failed'

also, if you look at my post its says 'afaia' - as far as i'm aware - which is what i say to the customers. All this is inconsequential imo. the fact is 99% of them pass the retest without further adjustment. so either i'm right that there are targets or the testers are incompetent. either way the customer is lumbered with the retest fee for no good reason.



imo

George Dalton

barneygumble99 wrote: »

there is a tolerance of about 2 inches for dipped beams to be set at but 99% of garages set the lights at the highest possible height which gives no leverage if you hit a pothole or fill your car with diesel. why not just set the lights half an inch below the max height and then you have alllowed yourself some space.

This is exactly what we do. It works well as I honestly can't remember a single instance of a car failing an NCT on headlight alignment after we have set them for the test. I always tell the car owner that we have deliberately set the lights slightly below the line to make sure they won't fail. I also give them the option to come back to have them readjusted to the correct height after the test for free if they want.

dougie-lampkin

Syllabus wrote: »

...and i explain to the customer that the nct have targets to hit and must hit a certain quota of retests per month, afaia, and if everything else is ok the lights are the easy fail.

The machine checks the lights' level. The tester has no input to the headlamp aim check other than sliding the machine across the front of the car. It's also the first thing that's tested after emissions in my local centre, so it's not like they can wait to see if you fail something else first. If a mechanic tried pulling the "quota" line on me, I wouldn't be long changing to a competent garage. The NCT has many flaws, but a quota isn't one of them.

trixyben

got a retest date for next friday and to be safe ill get the lights done again on the day before it...

just a quick question...will i have to get the underbody cleaned again as its more than likely going to get very dirty again by the time the re-test comes round or will they defo just check the lights as its in before 14 days?

Buffman

trixyben wrote: »

just a quick question...will i have to get the underbody cleaned again as its more than likely going to get very dirty again by the time the re-test comes round or will they defo just check the lights as its in before 14 days?

No, they'll only check what's failed so don't worry about cleaning it. After 30 days it's a full retest.

trixyben

Buffman wrote: »

No, they'll only check what's failed so don't worry about cleaning it. After 30 days it's a full retest.

so i take it it will only be more or less a 5 min nct then?

Buffman

trixyben wrote: »

so i take it it will only be more or less a 5 min nct then?

Yep, in and out normally. Between testing and sorting the paperwork I'd allow 15 minutes.