"irish army" fn fal

snowserpeant

does any one know if the flash hider and forward hand grip from the classic army sa 58 will fit the full lenght king arms fn fal.i was thinking of buying 1 but only if the parts can fit, even the above mentioned parts from the mid and short lenght versions of the king arms fal would do:).i want to get 1 as close to the irish army model as possable.[i mentioned the classic army sa 58 as i already have 1 of these]...or would the barrel from the full lenght ka fal fit the sa 58...any help/ advice is much appreciated,thanks:)

bullets

If your Classic Army SA58 flash hider has threads that start from the very bottom of the flash hider. I think it will fit onto the FULL length barrel of a King Arms FAL. (providing the barrel is the full full length and not the standard length or carbine length) Dunno about the handguards.

I've had a few drinks so I might not be making any sense what so ever.
I cant answer your question for sure as I dont have the same sized variants
with same length barrels and handguards to try. (yet....:eek: )

I've a King Arms Fal standard
King Arms L1A1
Classic army SA58 OSW (short)
Zeta Labs SA58 Carbine (short)
Star L1A1
I still need to buy a Full length King Arms FAL.

Heck of a lot of incompatibility across the brands.

The King Arms Brand Flash hiders go over the outer barrels by an inch or two and then screw in, but the Classic Army Brand Flash hiders screw directly onto the tip of the outer barrel.

The threads on the flash hiders of the Classic Army and the King arms FAL are the same pitch/size. BUT!!! Half the length of the King arms flash hider slides over the outer barrel of the gun before the threads meet to screw together. Which means for some models you can put a Classic Army flash hider onto a King Arms gun but you cant out a King Arms flash hider onto a Classic Army gun.
(ie the threads that screw onto the barrel are located half way up the length of the flash hider internally)




I dont have the full length model but if you try and put the King Arms Flash hider onto the classic army SA58 OSW or Carbine with the shorter barrels it wont fit as the outer barrel is two short so the threads cant reach the internal threads of the flash hider. (not sure if I'm making any sense)

The Short type (non Irish looking) flash hider from the Classic Army will go
on the KA ones fine as the threads are at the end of the flash hider.
I've not seen the standard length Classic Army or Zeta Lab flash hiders
though. (Zeta Lab externals appear to be identical to the Classic Army but they are selling much cheaper)

I dont have full length handguards from the Classic Army brands to check if they are compatible with the King Arms (My best guess is maybe not without some modificatio)

The mags across the KA-CA brands are Not compatible BTW just in case your buying any.

Real Steel FAL furniture wont fit on the guns unless your going to modify it.
I've a real handguard for my KA FAL the screw holes on the front dont line
up with the screw holes on the gun. The Handguard fits! but just cant be screwed in place without some work done to it.

Also The Flash Hider from the King Arms FAL wont go on the King Arms L1A1
despite being the same brand. Thats just totally weird!!!

When I was in the FCA as a teenager I saw 3 distinct different types of FAL's

The Brazil based Imbel looking versions were the most modern type used.

When I first Joined we had Synthetic Handguards with 3 air vents and Wooden Stocks.
there was a grenade sight and older style gas block. The stock lengths were sometimes
slightly different.

We later started to see Synthetic Handguards and Synthetic stocked versions but
the stocks were Fatter! at the base of the gun than you would see on an L1A1 or more modern fal.

We finally saw the more IMBEL looking ones. These had different body locking levers, different gas block,
no grenade sight and the butt stock was more slender.

All of the variants had solid post type foresight and all the handguards had 3 air vents,
as far as I can remember the flash hider had 3 sets of vents along them similar to the King Arms Standard length airsoft flash hider.

If building one that looked like a modern Irish one it would have the
King Arms Full length barrel & receiver (although fire selector switch is still different)
The King Arms Standard length Flash hider (or Classic Army standard length)
The Classic Army standard length handguard.
The foresight would need to be classic army or zeta labs as they are solid not skeletal.
Real steel sling (bitch to fasten a new real on into the sing swivels on the airsoft versions)
None of the brands has the correct Mag release catch but the King Arms standard/carbine come close.
None of the brands have the correct length fire selector switch.
None of the brands have the same pistol grip.
None have rear sling swivels that (I remember) as being the same but I could be wrong.
No Airsoft FALS have a carrying handle, you need to buy an L1A1 if you want that feature
to look the same as an Irish FAL. (Irish FALs handle grips rotated and were round unlike some L1A1 grips
which did not rotate and had finger grooves)

If you decide to buy a new AEG and are looking for for fantastic externals
the Star L1A1 reigns supreme for pure Looks.

~B

snowserpeant

hello brother,thanks for the reply.my god ,that is some amount of info you have supplied me with..very much appreciated,and dont worry if you have had a few beers / drinks.i, too, have had a few whilst reading your post and posting my reply so i will have a proper read of your comment 2morw when i have a clear head,ha ha,lol...but thanks for the info all the same

snowserpeant

bullets wrote: »

If your Classic Army SA58 flash hider has threads that start from the very bottom of the flash hider. I think it will fit onto the FULL length barrel of a King Arms FAL. (providing the barrel is the full full length and not the standard length or carbine length) Dunno about the handguards.

I've had a few drinks so I might not be making any sense what so ever.
I cant answer your question for sure as I dont have the same sized variants
with same length barrels and handguards to try. (yet....:eek: )

I've a King Arms Fal standard
King Arms L1A1
Classic army SA58 OSW (short)
Zeta Labs SA58 Carbine (short)
Star L1A1
I still need to buy a Full length King Arms FAL.

Heck of a lot of incompatibility across the brands.

The King Arms Brand Flash hiders go over the outer barrels by an inch or two and then screw in, but the Classic Army Brand Flash hiders screw directly onto the tip of the outer barrel.

The threads on the flash hiders of the Classic Army and the King arms FAL are the same pitch/size. BUT!!! Half the length of the King arms flash hider slides over the outer barrel of the gun before the threads meet to screw together. Which means for some models you can put a Classic Army flash hider onto a King Arms gun but you cant out a King Arms flash hider onto a Classic Army gun.
(ie the threads that screw onto the barrel are located half way up the length of the flash hider internally)




I dont have the full length model but if you try and put the King Arms Flash hider onto the classic army SA58 OSW or Carbine with the shorter barrels it wont fit as the outer barrel is two short so the threads cant reach the internal threads of the flash hider. (not sure if I'm making any sense)

The Short type (non Irish looking) flash hider from the Classic Army will go
on the KA ones fine as the threads are at the end of the flash hider.
I've not seen the standard length Classic Army or Zeta Lab flash hiders
though. (Zeta Lab externals appear to be identical to the Classic Army but they are selling much cheaper)

I dont have full length handguards from the Classic Army brands to check if they are compatible with the King Arms (My best guess is maybe not without some modificatio)

The mags across the KA-CA brands are Not compatible BTW just in case your buying any.

Real Steel FAL furniture wont fit on the guns unless your going to modify it.
I've a real handguard for my KA FAL the screw holes on the front dont line
up with the screw holes on the gun. The Handguard fits! but just cant be screwed in place without some work done to it.

Also The Flash Hider from the King Arms FAL wont go on the King Arms L1A1
despite being the same brand. Thats just totally weird!!!

When I was in the FCA as a teenager I saw 3 distinct different types of FAL's

The Brazil based Imbel looking versions were the most modern type used.

When I first Joined we had Synthetic Handguards with 3 air vents and Wooden Stocks.
there was a grenade sight and older style gas block. The stock lengths were sometimes
slightly different.

We later started to see Synthetic Handguards and Synthetic stocked versions but
the stocks were Fatter! at the base of the gun than you would see on an L1A1 or more modern fal.

We finally saw the more IMBEL looking ones. These had different body locking levers, different gas block,
no grenade sight and the butt stock was more slender.

All of the variants had solid post type foresight and all the handguards had 3 air vents,
as far as I can remember the flash hider had 3 sets of vents along them similar to the King Arms Standard length airsoft flash hider.

If building one that looked like a modern Irish one it would have the
King Arms Full length barrel & receiver (although fire selector switch is still different)
The King Arms Standard length Flash hider (or Classic Army standard length)
The Classic Army standard length handguard.
The foresight would need to be classic army or zeta labs as they are solid not skeletal.
Real steel sling (bitch to fasten a new real on into the sing swivels on the airsoft versions)
None of the brands has the correct Mag release catch but the King Arms standard/carbine come close.
None of the brands have the correct length fire selector switch.
None of the brands have the same pistol grip.
None have rear sling swivels that (I remember) as being the same but I could be wrong.
No Airsoft FALS have a carrying handle, you need to buy an L1A1 if you want that feature
to look the same as an Irish FAL. (Irish FALs handle grips rotated and were round unlike some L1A1 grips
which did not rotate and had finger grooves)

If you decide to buy a new AEG and are looking for for fantastic externals
the Star L1A1 reigns supreme for pure Looks.

~B

what unit of the fca were you in,i was in "b coy,7th inf battalion based in mckee barracks

bullets

snowserpeant wrote: »

what unit of the fca were you in,i was in "b coy,7th inf battalion based in mckee barracks

3rd fld sigs in Limerick.
Had lots of fun with the Bren, Gustav, FAL, & BAP
the SLME was phased out when I started and the AUG had not been phased in when I left.

~B

snowserpeant

:Dah the old bren gun,and bap...brings back memories. i recently finished a second term of service with the reserve forces [62nd mp coy in cathal brugagh barracks in rathmines in dublin].we had the steyr rifle,gpmg and usp pistol...but give me the old school weapons any day...no disrespect to the steyr rifle but compared to the fal the steyr is a pea shooter:)

thermo

the modern irish army fal

snowserpeant

i heard they were still in use a sniper rifles[in limited numbers]

thermo

its used as the spotters weapon , longer range than the styer and the ammo is common to the L96 and spotters weapon.
only recently re-furbished for service, with lots of gucci bits. was looking to do an airsoft version for myself but you can only get the genuine stock (no clones avalible). its a magpul prs2 fal version and at $255 ex- shipping its not cheap!

snowserpeant

that is defo not cheap,i think they actually look quite good and would not mind an airsoft version too:)

thermo

yeah, waaay to expensive for me at the moment.

snowserpeant

tell me about it buddy,i think i will get a ka slr and use that as the basis for my irish fal project,considering it has a carrying handle where as the fal models dont have it:)

thermo

snowserpeant

sweet,now im jealous,ha ha.are the yours,and are thet real or airsoft

thermo

snowserpeant wrote: »

sweet,now im jealous,ha ha.are the yours,and are thet real or airsoft

yeah the 3 are mine, all airsoft..................... for now!

snowserpeant

i love the camo example.what pattern is it,and what make / versions are the rifles

thermo

snowserpeant wrote: »

i love the camo example.what pattern is it,and what make / versions are the rifles

the long one is a classic army "rifle length" (longest of the models avalible from CA) sa 58 cammo was done by QAS, pattern was devised by the lads and myself.
the other 2 are ZL one is the carbine and the railed one is the OWS version. (half the price of the classic army versions) the ZL's are exact clones of the classic army so they are cross compatible with mags ect.

snowserpeant

nice 1 buddy

thermo

snowserpeant wrote: »

nice 1 buddy

cheers. they are the babies!!!

snowserpeant

no problem sir...from a real gun point of view the fal is the best battle rifle ever made,with the possable exception of the russian / soviet ak family...the fal is definataly a far superior weapon to the american m-16 / m-4 family.i had an airsoft m-4 and i hated it so much [dont know why i bought it in the first place] that i gave it away to a mate free of charge

thermo

the sa 58's are nice, fairly unique on the skirmish field, look well, easy to work on and being ver3 gearboxs have buckets of upgrade parts avalible.

snowserpeant

yep,defo not many of them around,on mine the cocking handle return spring has either come loose or snapped altogther and therefore its not working and the ejection port / hop up cover is stuck in the open position although the gun still fires just fine,im sure its a fairly easy prob to fix.will bring it into christy in mia and let him have a look at it

thermo

snowserpeant wrote: »

yep,defo not many of them around,on mine the cocking handle return spring has either come loose or snapped altogther and therefore its not working and the ejection port / hop up cover is stuck in the open position although the gun still fires just fine,im sure its a fairly easy prob to fix.will bring it into christy in mia and let him have a look at it

had similar problem with the CA one but was a simple fix!

snowserpeant

yep.as i say im sure its an easy fix

Tibersun

thermo wrote: »

the long one is a classic army "rifle length" (longest of the models avalible from CA) sa 58 cammo was done by QAS, pattern was devised by the lads and myself.
the other 2 are ZL one is the carbine and the railed one is the OWS version. (half the price of the classic army versions) the ZL's are exact clones of the classic army so they are cross compatible with mags ect.

Where did you get the osw thermo? How much and from which site? Did you get it sent to yourself and downgraded before shipping?

bullets

Nice posts Thermo, I had no idea that the FN had been re-vamped and
still had some use. Love the photos, works blocking all attempts for me to google more details but will give it a search when I get home.

I was going to goto the trouble of importing a real steel DSA FAL and trying to licence it with all the the Irish restrictions a few years back or even try and get one chambered in .22 to make it easier to licence but gave up on the idea a long time ago, it still plays on my mind from time to time, but the money could be better spent on a gun more accurate for target shooting or I'd go the whole hog and get me a nice F-Class rifle.

Have you a barrel extender on your SA58 with the camo ?
It may be just the pic but the barrel looks a little longer than even the full length barrel.

~B

thermo

bullets wrote: »

Nice posts Thermo, I had no idea that the FN had been re-vamped and
still had some use. Love the photos, works blocking all attempts for me to google more details but will give it a search when I get home.

I was going to goto the trouble of importing a real steel DSA FAL and trying to licence it with all the the Irish restrictions a few years back or even try and get one chambered in .22 to make it easier to licence but gave up on the idea a long time ago, it still plays on my mind from time to time, but the money could be better spent on a gun more accurate for target shooting or I'd go the whole hog and get me a nice F-Class rifle.

Have you a barrel extender on your SA58 with the camo ?
It may be just the pic but the barrel looks a little longer than even the full length barrel.

~B

the barrel extension is too long by an inch (or thereabouts), sorry about the crap pics not being that clear.
was going to get a dsa sa58 myself, but i bought a L42 instead! (R/S)
glad you enjoyed the posts.

thermo

Tibersun wrote: »

Where did you get the osw thermo? How much and from which site? Did you get it sent to yourself and downgraded before shipping?

here
http://www.seairsoft.net/product_details.php?id=1637&catid=27

Tibersun

thermo wrote: »

here
http://www.seairsoft.net/product_details.php?id=1637&catid=27

Cheers for the reply. 300 is a bit pricy. Goin to order one from gunnerairsoft with the next big order should come in less than 200 even with shipping, downgrade, customs and handling fees.

bullets

Tibersun wrote: »

Cheers for the reply. 300 is a bit pricy. Goin to order one from gunnerairsoft with the next big order should come in less than 200 even with shipping, downgrade, customs and handling fees.

The Zeta Lab versions looks and feels identical to the the Classic Army
one. I would go so far as to say they ARE the same. The only difference
I can tell is the colour of the gearbox shell on the Zeta Lab branded one.

If you wanted a SA58 OSW from Classic Army it will cost you about 430 Euro before shipping costs. (from the UK)

Zeta Labs one already downloaded (via a spring change) from an Irish Retailer
where the gun is already in the country and you dont have to worry about customs! at the 300 Euro mark for essentially the same gun sounds like a fair price to me

I've paid over 500 (cant remember the exact price) for an Ares branded
falalike.

Gunner Airsoft is charging 325 Euros for the CA SA58 before downgrade and shipping and Tax
not sure if they are selling the ZL branded stuff I did not see them when I did a search.

Ehobby will sell the AGM/ZL OSW (Thats Out of stock) for 281 Euros including shipping but
that does not count the downgrade cost and any VAT/Tax you might pay.

Irish price is looking OK especially when you can fire it back to the retailer handy if theres a problem
with the gun.

Other thing to note with ZL or classic army brand of this gun is the magazine prices
are just nut!!!!! and the quality and build of the magazines is ****!

The 1000 round and 500 round mags "upper parts" are made from plastic. The outside side walls are metal.
The plastic tops get damaged over time when changing mags and eventually crack. (very bloody quickly from the few times I've skirmished with them) The other thing is there is a sever design flaw with the mags where the entire inside of the magazine is held in place by one tiny tiny nut and screw thats embedded in the plastic base. If you drop your magazine accidentally
the chances are the jolt on impact will cause the nut to break from the plastic and the whole insides will fall out.

2 of my 1000 rnd's mags and 1 500 rnd mag's have broken with an accidental fall and at 50 Euros a pop to replace its expensive.
Also all the mags I've used had the top of them had their plastic crack and I've had to use expoxy and super glue to hold them together. The King Arms Brand mags (that are not compatible have a higher build quality to them)


~B

thermo

in my opinion, having opened and worked on both the ZL and CA versions that the ZL would be slightly on top with a few nice features, such as better quality steel gears, metal selector plate (the CA is plastic which can get damaged if your not careful removing the gearbox) and a better piston, the ZL has a metal tooth piston with the first tooth pre-removed. (half teeth)
i plan on doing a reveiw here in a week or two once i have gamed with them a bit more.

bullets

sweet. My CA OSW shredded its original piston mid skirmish knocking
out the first few plastic teeth in it and getting shards of plastic everyplace,
If it had a first metal tooth it might have been salvageable or the issue of shredding might not have happened in the first place.

~B

thermo

bullets wrote: »

sweet. My CA OSW shredded its original piston mid skirmish knocking
out the first few plastic teeth in it and getting shards of plastic everyplace,
If it had a first metal tooth it might have been salvageable or the issue of shredding might not have happened in the first place.

~B

ah the curse of the classic army butter (reinforced yellow) pistons....................

Tibersun

bullets wrote: »

Zeta Labs one already downloaded (via a spring change) from an Irish Retailer
where the gun is already in the country and you dont have to worry about customs! at the 300 Euro mark for essentially the same gun sounds like a fair price to me .

Do SE do all their downgrades (via a spring change) not all retailers do!!! Even some who say they do, Don't always!! I've worked on a fair few aegs from many retailers and by far the most common method is the Drill. Will contact SG and see if they have a SA58OSW and how it is downgraded.
Customs shouldn't have any issue with a springless AEG!

bullets wrote: »

Gunner Airsoft is charging 325 Euros for the CA SA58 before downgrade and shipping and Tax
not sure if they are selling the ZL branded stuff I did not see them when I did a search..

Just type in osw in gunners site and both CA and ZL come up.

bullets wrote: »

Ehobby will sell the AGM/ZL OSW (Thats Out of stock) for 281 Euros including shipping but
that does not count the downgrade cost and any VAT/Tax you might pay.

Where did you get 281 euros for AEG and delivery. even fron Ehobby that are 30 dollors more than Gunner, Its 150euro (without any discount) for the AEG so your adding 131 for shipping. Thats an awefull lot for shipping.

I have it at 115euro with my discount for the ZL from gunner (in stock) and 50 euro delivery.(30days)(I can wait) 20 euro for gunner to remove the spring. They have done that on all my aeg purchaces. I don't think customs and handling charges will be 100 euro and thats just for one item delivery. It'll be a large order when I do order and that will cut the shipping handling and fee per item again.

bullets wrote: »

Irish price is looking OK especially when you can fire it back to the retailer handy if theres a problem
with the gun.

~B

As for that I'd much prefer to do the work myself. I don't know how se do their downgrades cut spring, 1 joule spring orgod forebid drilled nozzle, drilled cylinder or who does their worK, or how good he/hes is?? Or if they were having a good day when the work was done. I'm sure they are capable but prefer my own work. Having a shop it fire it back too is no advantage to me as it might be for others I'm prefer to have the 50 to 70 or more euro and buy a few of those overpriced mags!!

bullets

Tibersun wrote: »

Just type in osw in gunners site and both CA and ZL come up.

I see it now, I didnt last night shows up as "QP"
had not seen them described as that before

Tibersun wrote: »

Where did you get 281 euros for AEG and delivery.

Sorry type O I ment to type 280 USD. 200USD for the gun and 80 USD
for shipping.

Tibersun wrote: »

I don't know how se do their downgrades cut spring,

I had been wondering about that myself but was told its via Full spring change.

Where ever you decide to buy from good luck with the purchase,
lovely lovely bit of kit.

~B

thermo

Tibersun wrote: »

Do SE do all their downgrades (via a spring change) not all retailers do!!! Even some who say they do, Don't always!! I've worked on a fair few aegs from many retailers and by far the most common method is the Drill. Will contact SG and see if they have a SA58OSW and how it is downgraded.

the se guys install gaurder m90 springs, giving 300-310 fps usually, there is nothing wrong with the work, i know because i have bought 2 recently and had them both open for a look!