petrol or diesel

obi604

Thinking of buying a 2010 car in the next few months.

Looking for something with about 170 BHP i.e with decent poke
And tax to be under 400

I currently have a 2 litre Audi A3 Diesel 140 BHP

However this thread is not about suggestions of cars to buy. It's whether to go for a diesel or petrol.

Main stats

1. I do 7000 miles a year
2. I mainly do city driving. 6 mile commute each day in start/stop traffic
3. I travel to the west from Dublin every 3 weeks


So,petrol or diesel ?
And reason for your choice

-Corkie-

Petrol absolutley..

166man

Petrol x1000.

Matthewjohn

Petrol as its cheaper to buy and in the stop start driving your doing the DPF would definitely act up

obi604

-Corkie- wrote: »

Petrol absolutley..

And why ?

-Corkie-

obi604 wrote: »

And why ?

Short journeys with start stop in a city are bad for both DMF and DPF. You will buy a petrol car much cheaper too ATM.

dickdasterly

If you had ask this 5+ years ago it would have close call, but your mileage doesn't warrant you having a diesel car.

There 2k plus more expensive to buy the fuel is more expensive, and as far as a I am concerned a petrol car at a 170 bhp would feel more fun than a torquay diesel.

Get a a seat cupra turbo a lot of car for the money, and it's a VAG car.

colm_mcm

Anyone think of a petrol car that fits the criteria (tax) that isn't also rubbish?

Dpf delete should be considered. I wouldn't be buying a big petrol 170hp car as a 2010 despite the general consensus that a diesel will poo its pants for want of being driven enough.

166man

colm_mcm wrote: »

Anyone think of a petrol car that fits the criteria (tax) that isn't also rubbish?

Dpf delete should be considered. I wouldn't be buying a big petrol 170hp car as a 2010 despite the general consensus that a diesel will poo its pants for want of being driven enough.

Alfa Multiair of some sort..

colm_mcm

I'd take my chances with a diesel if thats the best alternative,

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

I'd take my chances with a diesel if thats the best alternative,

If the OP isn't willing to bend on the tax constraint (which I think is looney when spending relatively HUGE money on a car) I too would not go petrol, some tasty 170bhp diesels about that can be taxed for €400, not many petrols me thinks.

colm_mcm

If the criteria weren't there, you could pick any number of cars.

firefly08

Very few people ever seem to do the maths.

Main stats

1. I do 7000 miles a year
2. I mainly do city driving. 6 mile commute each day in start/stop traffic
3. I travel to the west from Dublin every 3 weeks


So,petrol or diesel ?
And reason for your choice

OK, let's assume you would get 50 mpg out of a diesel and 35 out of a comparable petrol for the same kind of driving. Would that be fair?

Diesel:
7000 / 50 = 140. So you'll need 140 gallons, or 630 litres of diesel per year. At 1.48, that comes to 932 euro for your fuel for the year

Pertrol:
7000 / 35 = 200 gallons, or 900 litres. At 1.50 a litre, that's 1350.

So you'll save 418 Euro per year if you get those figures from a diesel, which is a rough guess on my part, but I think I've got the difference between diesel and petrol reasonably close.

You should bear in mind that those figures are probably optimistic for mostly urban driving, and the difference in mpg between petrol and diesel will probably be even less.

But you're probably going to pay thousands more for a comparable diesel car. It will be more expensive to service and much less fun to drive.

dgt

Won't the DPF commit suicide when mostly in city driving and traffic? If the commute is 6 miles average a day I'd be inclined to go petrol, doesn't it take about 10 to 15 miles of driving for a diesel engine to reach its best thermal efficiency...?

That's just my opinion though

166man

colm_mcm wrote: »

I'd take my chances with a diesel if thats the best alternative,

Care to elaborate?

denballs

petrol basically......but in the next 3 years some new fuel types will be released that should only work in diesel cars....so if this car will be a long term buy.....you might want to think about that.

dickdasterly

firefly08 wrote: »

Very few people ever seem to do the maths.



OK, let's assume you would get 50 mpg out of a diesel and 35 out of a comparable petrol for the same kind of driving. Would that be fair?

Diesel:
7000 / 50 = 140. So you'll need 140 gallons, or 630 litres of diesel per year. At 1.48, that comes to 932 euro for your fuel for the year

Pertrol:
7000 / 35 = 200 gallons, or 900 litres. At 1.50 a litre, that's 1350.

So you'll save 418 Euro per year if you get those figures from a diesel, which is a rough guess on my part, but I think I've got the difference between diesel and petrol reasonably close.

You should bear in mind that those figures are probably optimistic for mostly urban driving, and the difference in mpg between petrol and diesel will probably be even less.

But you're probably going to pay thousands more for a comparable diesel car. It will be more expensive to service and much less fun to drive.

You don't need need to do the math, 7000 miles a year = petrol car 17000 a year = diesel car it isn't hard.

colm_mcm

As far as I know, the Alfa multiair has a dual mass flywheel, and judging on the fiat 500 multiair the fuel consumption will be off the wall. Also from someone who actually bought a nearly new Alfa years ago and lost my hole on it come trade in time, I'd be skeptical that it would be economically viable to buy one over more conventional rivals.

Id never discourage a true petrolhead from buying an Alfa of course.

166man wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

dharn

surely petrol cars are only fun to drive if you use the wide rev band, ie hit the red line between gear changes, this will result in very poor fuel efficiency, i had 3 bmw 318 petrols, and found the throttle response very poor they were fine when on cam but nothing lower down, then i moved to 320d 166 bhp i find it nicer to drive, the power is much more accessible low rev torque is great, ok the powerband is short but is faster 0-60 than the 320i, much more economical i do small mileage and am thinking of maybe going back to petrol but what would i need to replace my 320d in a bmw 3 series petrol with ?

firefly08

firefly08 wrote: »

Very few people ever seem to do the maths.

...........

Find a 170bhp petrol car with a 2010 reg on it for €400/annum tax
Than weigh up the maths again :pac:

firefly08

You don't need need to do the math, 7000 miles a year = petrol car 17000 a year = diesel car it isn't hard.

I don't know what you mean.

My point is that if you know how many miles you'll be driving, and roughly what kind of mpg you can expect from each, then you can easily work out almost exactly what you'll be saving with a diesel car. Since everything else obvious (what they cost, what they're like to drive etc.), petrol v. diesel should be a no-brainer.

MugMugs

Juice that tax rate a few tonne OP and you'd have yourself a schmexy car!

obi604

Matthewjohn wrote: »

Petrol as its cheaper to buy and in the stop start driving your doing the DPF would definitely act up

I have a 2 litre Audi A3 Diesel 140 BHP and no DPF has acted up

firefly08

Find a 170bhp petrol car with a 2010 reg on it for €400/annum tax
Than weigh up the maths again

According to information on the current motor tax website and the CO2 emissions info from BMW, both the 320i and the 325i would meet this criteria.

colm_mcm

As in efficient dynamics?

robertxxx

Golf gti, 200 bhp and not sure the tax:)

Nonoperational

DMFs in petrols are a very different proposition to diesels.

firefly08

Golf gti, 200 bhp and not sure the tax

It would be 430 for the current model anyway, 210HP.

high horse

firefly08 wrote: »

According to information on the current motor tax website and the CO2 emissions info from BMW, both the 320i and the 325i would meet this criteria.

I was just about to suggest a 320i. the CO2 emissions are 149g/km according to the link below which puts it at 330 euro per year to tax

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/bmw/3-series/saloon-2005/41319/

Mycroft H

As long as the DPF is given a chance to regenerate (that is some spirited driving on a motorway at peak engine temperature), I'd go 100% with the diesel.


BTW diesel is still 3-4 cent cheaper then petrol.
http://pumps.ie/

logie101

RoverJames wrote: »

Find a 170bhp petrol car with a 2010 reg on it for €400/annum tax
Than weigh up the maths again :pac:

The VW Golf GT 1.4TSI produces 170bhp. It is also only €300 odd quid to tax.
It is probably the best car that fits the OPs criteria.

logie101

logie101 wrote: »

...........
It is probably the best car that fits the OPs criteria.

It may well be

-Corkie-

RoverJames wrote: »

It may well be

They are not very reliable though in the 170 format though..

-Corkie-

-Corkie- wrote: »

They are not very reliable though in the 170 format though..

... I know, I didn't want to put a at the end of my other post as I'm trying to be nice lately :cool:

-Corkie-

RoverJames wrote: »

... I know, I didn't want to put a at the end of my other post as I'm trying to be nice lately :cool:

With all those smiles you are using lately I thought Pudzey101 had hacked into your account..:p

-Corkie-

-Corkie- wrote: »

With all those smiles you are using lately I thought Pudzey101 had hacked into your account..:p

:eek: Dunno what you're on about :pac:

166man

colm_mcm wrote: »

As far as I know, the Alfa multiair has a dual mass flywheel, and judging on the fiat 500 multiair the fuel consumption will be off the wall. Also from someone who actually bought a nearly new Alfa years ago and lost my hole on it come trade in time, I'd be skeptical that it would be economically viable to buy one over more conventional rivals.

Id never discourage a true petrolhead from buying an Alfa of course.

Many cars have DMF's anyway, and with the OP doing 7000 miles a year he'll be waiting a long time to replace it. As for the fuel consumption, well there have been a few Giuiettas in our house for weekend test drives, and while not being able to drive it myself, they returned about 42-47mpg with a mixture of driving.

The key part in that second last sentence is "few years ago". Alfas held there value like crap back then. My father bought a six month old 159 diesel estate in 2010, and that's looking to hold it's value very well at the moment.

Buy an Alfa because you want one, if it's "economically viable" thats just a bonus. I think a 170 multiair would be very well suited to the OP.

166man

166man wrote: »

...............

The key part in that second last sentence is "few years ago". Alfas held there value like crap back then. My father bought a six month old 159 diesel estate in 2010, and that's looking to hold it's value very well at the moment.

.............

.... the key part in your sentence is diesel.
What figures are you basing your holding it's value very well on anyway ?

obi604

OP HERE
Thanks for all the interesting replies

So as I said I have a 2005 Audi A3 2 litre **diesel**. 138 BHP
Poke is grand but I want something a bit pokier for me next car......... Which is why I mentioned the 170 BHP in my opening post.
Been doing these short runs to and from work for the last 2 years and no issues with DPF or anything.

Had 2 petrol cars before the A3 and nothing but hassle with them

Now people are probably wondering why I want a car like I mentioned for a lad only doing 7000 miles a year, but I just like me bit of poke.

I was seriously thinking about buying a Mazda 6, 2.2 Diesel 180 BHP. But from all the talk I'm hearing about DPF s, short journeys being bad for diesels etc , I don't know.

I should have said that I'm looking for a car in the Mazda 6 physical size range.

colm_mcm

If by poke you mean mid range acceleration and effortless torque, then a normally apirated petrol won't cut the mustard

.... well you'll be getting lots of warranty presumably, get an auto and the DMF isn't a problem, if you like your bit of poke and have a decent bus you'll probably give it a good reddening (DPF wise) weekly at least

obi604

colm_mcm wrote: »

If by poke you mean mid range acceleration and effortless torque, then a normally apirated petrol won't cut the mustard

Sorry, I'm not that technical and crude when I say poke.
I suppose when I say poke, I mean the kind of acceleration I get from first gear in my Audi up thru the gears, at low enough revs if that makes any sense Ie just accelerates quickly without burning the ****e outta the engine

colm_mcm

obi604 wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not that technical and crude when I say poke.
I suppose when I say poke, I mean the kind of acceleration I get from first gear in my Audi up thru the gears, at low enough revs if that makes any sense Ie just accelerates quickly without burning the ****e outta the engine

Torque, basically.



Re dpf cleaning, I don't think driving the stones out of it will regenerate it, it's driving t a set rpm at a certain speed for a prolonged period that does it.

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

.... the key part in your sentence is diesel.
What figures are you basing your holding it's value very well on anyway ?

Being diesel is a key word correct. But it's not as though the road tax is low on it, circa €500 a year. In terms of holding it's value I'm basing it on what was paid for it compared to its rough value in 3 years time( March 2013).

obi604

colm_mcm wrote: »

obi604 wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not that technical and crude when I say poke.
I suppose when I say poke, I mean the kind of acceleration I get from first gear in my Audi up thru the gears, at low enough revs if that makes any sense Ie just accelerates quickly without burning the ****e outta the engine

Torque, basically.

Thanks

So high level

1. In a petrol, do you have to rev high ( 4000 revs ) before you change gears to achieve decent speed

2. In a diesel do you just rev to about 2500 revs before changing gears to achieve decent speed






If you had a turbo diesel 170 and an injection petrol 170 in a drag race, which wud win ?

Sorry for all my stooped non technical comments

colm_mcm

The petrol would probably win in a drag race, redlining it.


Overtaking a long line of cars one by one, the diesel would take it.

Personally I prefer a ball of torque for real life driving, but I had a Mitsubishi mivec which would rev to unbelievable rpm, immense fun, but a lot of gear changing required,

Depends on how hard you want to work,

166man

166man wrote: »

Being diesel is a key word correct. But it's not as though the road tax is low on it, circa €500 a year. In terms of holding it's value I'm basing it on what was paid for it compared to its rough value in 3 years time( March 2013).

It's rough value in March 2013 compared to what it cost as a 6 month old car?
What do you think it will be worth in March 2013?

obi604

colm_mcm wrote: »

The petrol would probably win in a drag race, redlining it.


Overtaking a long line of cars one by one, the diesel would take it.

Personally I prefer a ball of torque for real life driving, but I had a Mitsubishi mivec which would rev to unbelievable rpm, immense fun, but a lot of gear changing required,

Depends on how hard you want to work,

You seem to know your sh1t

Do you think a Mazda 2.2 diesel 185 BHP would be a good or bad choice for me based on my mileage etc

dgt

obi604 wrote: »

Sorry, I'm not that technical and crude when I say poke.
I suppose when I say poke, I mean the kind of acceleration I get from first gear in my Audi up thru the gears, at low enough revs if that makes any sense Ie just accelerates quickly without burning the ****e outta the engine

I used to have one of these badboys



Had teriffic poke low down as you would call it. Maybe the modern ones would fit your bill?

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

It's rough value in March 2013 compared to what it cost as a 6 month old car?
What do you think it will be worth in March 2013?

Of course. I'm only interested to see what it costs in terms of depreciation. I think this time next year with probably 80k km and a few options on it, it would be worth something decent. Not too many 159 estates in Ireland, especially in 2010.

... how much do you think it will be worth?