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eircom finally defaults

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    #62
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    I just wish they'd get on with this quickly.

    We urgently need a company that is capable of investing in the telecommunications network, not some clapped-out, debt-ridden heap!

    I'd rather see eircom in the hands of an actual telecommunications company though, not some group of speculators / investors again.

    It needs access to capital, economies of scale, technical expertise etc etc.
    Being part of a major telco would give it all that.


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    #63
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Solair wrote: »
    I just wish they'd get on with this quickly.

    We urgently need a company that is capable of investing in the telecommunications network, not some clapped-out, debt-ridden heap!

    I'd rather see eircom in the hands of an actual telecommunications company though, not some group of speculators / investors again.

    It needs access to capital, economies of scale, technical expertise etc etc.
    Being part of a major telco would give it all that.

    I agree with all that and if we take it into account, why didn't the examiner sit down with 3, he didn't even meet with them after their offer. It looks like the the deal was already done before they went into examinership, it'll be interesting to see what the judge thinks of it all. The examiner has made a laugh of the system but using to process to wipe out unsecured bondholders, examiner should have more sense.


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    #64
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    examiner should have more sense.

    With 3 in the same sentence, TBH, and in light of legal proceedings [by 3's creditors] HE WAS and IS right and was in fact EXTREMELY knowledgeable and did have perfect sense.


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    #65
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    gbee wrote: »
    With 3 in the same sentence, TBH, and in light of legal proceedings [by 3's creditors] HE WAS and IS right and was in fact EXTREMELY knowledgeable and did have perfect sense.

    How do you think he done the right thing. By who, the bankers? I'm not sure I agree with examinership, the way it's been used in this case. It's been used to shaft unsecured creditors and noting else. It's not for the good of Eircom.


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    #66
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    How do you think he done the right thing. .
    Think of me as a comic, whilst Eircom should, maybe not exist, Irish Men and Irish Women built it. Badly, haphazardly, slovenly even, but it was ours.

    Now, in fact it could disappear and no one would miss it. 3 think we are fools, they never dug a ditch or laid a line or installed a wireless router, and it shows.

    AND, finally, like the CIE rail tracks, any idiot can drive the train along them, if 3 were really interested they'd set up a new company, run it on Eircom's infrastructure or better yet BUILD THEIR EFFIN OWN


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    #67
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    gbee wrote: »
    Think of me as a comic, whilst Eircom should, maybe not exist, Irish Men and Irish Women built it. Badly, haphazardly, slovenly even, but it was ours.

    Now, in fact it could disappear and no one would miss it. 3 think we are fools, they never dug a ditch or laid a line or installed a wireless router, and it shows.

    AND, finally, like the CIE rail tracks, any idiot can drive the train along them, if 3 were really interested they'd set up a new company, run it on Eircom's infrastructure or better yet BUILD THEIR EFFIN OWN

    There are countless benefits to buying a company like eircom and upgrading their network than to build one from scratch. Plus, vodafone and o2 seemed pretty interested in Ireland when they bought out eircell and esat digifone many years ago.


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    #68
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    Tl and esat digifone many years ago.

    The transport protocol is free to air, a mobile phone user does not need a physical connection to their nearest tower, also a common carrier protocol means that dozens of 'companies' can service the free air.

    And the issuance of 'licence' is before the courts as we speak.


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    #69
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Free to air, users don't need a connection? Built by Irish men and women, were about to loose it to foreigners?

    Did you learn about networks and Eircom from the back of a cornflakes packet?

    Eircom as it is now about as Irish as newcastle brown ale.


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    #70
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Meanwhile.
    A former Eircom director who defrauded €1.4m from a building society to set up a lottery in Peru has been jailed for four years.

    Michael Gormally (52) used false names on mortgage applications which he presented to ICS Building Society at New Century House on Mayor Street in Dublin over a three-year period.

    Never heard of him. Mind you this bit looks somewhat familiar.
    Judge Martin Nolan said Gormally was a "man of some, if not great, intelligence with knowledge of how financial institutions work.


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    #71
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    And the court case failed. The lawyers who cooked up the spurious rationale for taking it will be paid in full.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0517/breaking41.html


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    #72
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,120 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Well there's always o2:rolleyes:

    I'm still not happy with Examinership, it's seems like a legal way for a bad company to get off the hook, how about the likes of Digiweb, Magnet etc who are competing against Eircom and are not screwing their creditors. Should they not be able to see a badly run company fail. It just doesn't seem fair to competitors who are doing things right that the law is used in this way.


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    #73
    Oceans12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 167 ✭✭Oceans12


    let it fail, its long past saving, as for their fiber rollout plan, i would bet that the dates announced, are very very very optimistic.


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    #74
    Rabidlamb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭Rabidlamb


    It was explained to me that the talk of 4G rollout is the final death knell for eircom.
    With homes now able to stream & Skype without paying line rental eircom will be destroyed.


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    #75
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Free to air, users don't need a connection? Built by Irish men and women, were about to loose it to foreigners?

    We lost to to foreigners years ago.

    Among others have been Australian & Sinapore based owners of Telecom Eireann/Eircom since flotation.


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    #76
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Australian & Sinapore based owners of Telecom Eireann/Eircom since flotation.

    Goeorge Soros, Sir Somebody, Providence Equity Partners.


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    #77
    ballinteerguy
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭ballinteerguy


    Heard on Newstalk this morning that Eircom staff (as part of ESOT)
    are to get a pay off of around €9k tax free each on average.
    As part of winding up the ESOT finally.. even though the company is broke and on its knees...

    This is on top of the average total of ~€65k - (also Tax free) they have got up till now.

    Cant fuppin believe it, no wonder the max broadband is only 8mb, all the owners and staff are creaming it off and then begging the high court to get their huge debts cut.

    Government should have closed that tax loophole a long time ago.


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    #78
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    ballinteerguy wrote: »
    Heard on Newstalk this morning that Eircom staff (as part of ESOT)
    are to get a pay off of around €9k tax free each on average.
    As part of winding up the ESOT finally.. even though the company is broke and on its knees...

    This is on top of the average total of ~€65k - (also Tax free) they have got up till now.

    Tax free? Seriously doubt it.
    ballinteerguy wrote: »
    Cant fuppin believe it, no wonder the max broadband is only 8mb
    More to do with the quality of the copper wire and limitations of DSL technology than costs.


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    #79
    ballinteerguy
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭ballinteerguy


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Tax free? Seriously doubt it.


    More to do with the quality of the copper wire and limitations of DSL technology than costs.

    Sorry I should have put a link to it
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0531/1224316990331.html
    All payments have been tax free over the years.

    As per the limitations of the DSL - I guess this is true, but with all the payments and debt - this could have been used to upgrade the line over the years instead of being siphoned off for staff and managment.


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    #80
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    ballinteerguy wrote: »
    Sorry I should have put a link to it
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0531/1224316990331.html
    All payments have been tax free over the years.

    As per the limitations of the DSL - I guess this is true, but with all the payments and debt - this could have been used to upgrade the line over the years instead of being siphoned off for staff and managment.

    What and do what other privately owned companies that want to keep staff do? Lord they couldn't do that.


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    #81
    ballinteerguy
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭ballinteerguy


    antoobrien wrote: »
    What and do what other privately owned companies that want to keep staff do? Lord they couldn't do that.

    Im not saying they shouldnt pay staff bonus's for performance or reasonable wages. Other companies which have massive debt and poor products would either go broke or cut their cloth, this isnt happening in Eircom. apart from a voluntary redunancy where usually the best staff leave.


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    #82
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    I believe that this money was not belong to eircom it was secured the time eircom was taken off the stock exchange the second time. The ESOT offered to reinvest in eircom and the banks did not accept the offer so now the money is to be redistributed to the staff involved.

    This is what happerns in private enterprise


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