Litter Fine

The Movers

Hi,a few months ago,I put up 5 large posters around my area,advertising what I do,
I got some work from them,not a lot,
I also recived 2 fines ,for separate posters,
These posters are just like the politicians posters at election time,
The council want to fine me 150 euro each,
I was unaware this is not allowed,
I have appealed the fines ,to no avail,
I don't really want to pay these fines, but I will if I have to,
Does anyone out there have any suggestions on what I should do?
Other than just paying them.
Thanks for any tips or advise.:)

Paulw

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/litter_law.html

Posters and signs

The law forbids the putting up of posters/signs on poles or other structures in public places unless you have the written permission of the owner of the pole or other structure in advance of putting up the posters/signs and requires that an article or advertisement must carry the name and address of the person:

• Who is promoting or arranging the meeting or event being advertised, or
• In any other case, on whose behalf the article or advertisement is being exhibited.

Your choice is clear - pay the fine, or else go to court and argue it there, and face an increased fine up to €3,000. Not knowing that it's illegal won't get you out of the fine, and may just annoy the judge.

dudara

You cannot just put up signs, even politicians get permits to put up signs at election time. Unwanted signs can be fined for littering. So, really, you don't have much choice, you will have to pay.

Cabaal

Ignorance is not an excuse I'm afraid, I've reported a number of businesses for doing this locally over the years.

Just imagine what every ESB pole and wall would be like if every business could put up posters anywhere they wanted.

As advised, its either pay the fine or take your chances in court, but remember to begin with your very much in the wrong and ignorance won't really save you here.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Posters such as yours are one of the worst forms of littering and I have reported some to the council in the past. Election posters are only permitted for a stated period around the elections and candidates have been fined for those not removed in time.

Tough on you but you should know better!

Hootanany

Miranda Round Stooge wrote: »

Posters such as yours are one of the worst forms of littering and I have reported some to the council in the past. Election posters are only permitted for a stated period around the elections and candidates have been fined for those not removed in time.

Tough on you but you should know better!

The guy is trying to make a living not put his snout into thr gravy train shame on you

dudara

Appreciate that someone is trying to make a living, but that doesn't help when someone's poster is obscuring a view of the traffic lights at the Naas Rd junction. That's just stupid.

allthedoyles

A BUSINESSMAN has slammed Wexford County Council for not supporting local businesses in hard times after advertising road signage, he claims he had permission to erect, were taken down and destroyed by the local authority last week.

http://www.newrossstandard.ie/news/traders-fury-over-destroyed-signs-2997946.html

Guy:Incognito

Hootanany wrote: »

The guy is trying to make a living not put his snout into thr gravy train shame on you

That may be so, but he has to do it within the same laws other businesses have to.

time lord

The Movers wrote: »

Hi,a few months ago,I put up 5 large posters around my area,advertising what I do,
I got some work from them,not a lot,
I also recived 2 fines ,for separate posters,
These posters are just like the politicians posters at election time,
The council want to fine me 150 euro each,
I was unaware this is not allowed,
I have appealed the fines ,to no avail,
I don't really want to pay these fines, but I will if I have to,
Does anyone out there have any suggestions on what I should do?
Other than just paying them.
Thanks for any tips or advise.:)

This is whats in your favour. No district judge at the moment has much grá to prosecute people like yourself trying to make a living and innocently putting up some posters. Make sure posters are down.
Then approach local authority looking for one fine to be waivered and seek a payment plan/structure for the other.
If they refuse your appeal again i would have no hesitation in going to the district court. As much as one can give a guarantee over the net I say you will not pay near €300 (2 fine) whether you represent yourself or not.
I monthly go to these district courts and all I can say for 100% is that there is no reason to be afraid to go to one and plead your case. You will pay a lot less. Their function and outlook is not the same as the local authority.
None of this is legal advice just an observation on how things are working as I see them.
On a side note couldn't the warden of called the number on the posters and advised you. And if they were still up in a few days then fine away. Its all too easy to hit the small man. How many on the spot fines are there for white collar crime?

upandcumming

I was talking to my friend over the Christmas, and this thread reminded me of his story.

He operates his business at his home. He then put up signs on his fence by the road. Not massive yokes, I saw them. About 2 by 2 foot.
Soon after, a member of the CoCo came out and told him he had to remove them.

Should he have taken them down?

Shelflife

I think that this is just bad management from the local councils, its very annoying that the bigger businesses can do what they want yet the small man is nailed straight away.

Ive no problem with the rules or with them being implemented but as was said earlier why not just ring the man (20c) and inform him that he is in breach of the laws and if he doesnt take them down he will be fined. job sorted every happy, no fines no court.

we see too often a desire to fine the easy option or the small man when they are afraid to take on the bigger boys or in the case of littering the serious and wanton disregard by some elements of our community that basically destroy our countryside without any fines or followup from the local authorities !!!

ejmaztec

I wonder what the county councils would do if they saw something like this above the roof of your house?

Cabaal

Shelflife wrote: »

I think that this is just bad management from the local councils,

How is it exactly?

Where do we draw the line when it comes to any old joe business plastering the place with posters on every ESB pole and lamp post up and down the country.

I reported a very large insurance company in the south east in Ireland for plastering my local area with about 7 signs, this was at the time the area was trying to win something in the tidy towns.

If a business wants to advertise then this costs money, big business pay to advertise so why shouldn't the small business do also?

Printing off a few signs and sticking them on esb poles is not a proper advertising plan and it most certainly is littering, I along with many others will support the councils in going after foolish businesses who do this.

I'm all for supporting local business however not at the cost of making the local environment an eyesore,

Shelflife

Cabaal wrote: »

How is it exactly?

Where do we draw the line when it comes to any old joe business plastering the place with posters on every ESB pole and lamp post up and down the country.

I reported a very large insurance company in the south east in Ireland for plastering my local area with about 7 signs, this was at the time the area was trying to win something in the tidy towns.

If a business wants to advertise then this costs money, big business pay to advertise so why shouldn't the small business do also?

Printing off a few signs and sticking them on esb poles is not a proper advertising plan and it most certainly is littering, I along with many others will support the councils in going after foolish businesses who do this.

I'm all for supporting local business however not at the cost of making the local environment an eyesore,

I am in agreement with you Cabaal, all im saying is a quick call to take down the signs immediately otherwise you will be fined would do the trick in most cases.

If it doesnt, then fine them, all im saying is give the man a chance to do the right thing.

Hootanany

I was fined for segregating waste in a front garden of a house I was working on
Council excuse it can be seen from a road or path its littering Money making scam that is all.
They had the guys phone number so they could trace him and fine him , so morale of this just dump your waste anywhere theywill not come after you. Rant over

Bluetonic

The Movers wrote: »

Thanks for any tips or advise.:)

Reply back to them saying you don't know anything about them and to send on the evidence that you erected them.

Clearly it was a guardian angel putting them up, trying to drum up business for you.

Without evidence does that mean I can put up anybodies details on a poster and get them a fine? Genuine question.

dudara

Bluetonic - it wouldn't go well if you came along with a cockamamie story. The best thing is to engage honestly, and plead for leniency.

EDIT - also moving thread to Entreprenurial & Business Management forum

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Hootanany wrote: »

The guy is trying to make a living not put his snout into thr gravy train shame on you

Doesn't stop his actions being illegal. When I get such signs blocking visibility at junctions or blowing into my garden, I am perfectly entitled to report them. Just as I would somebody tossing a can or bottle from a car.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Bluetonic wrote: »

Reply back to them saying you don't know anything about them and to send on the evidence that you erected them.

Clearly it was a guardian angel putting them up, trying to drum up business for you.

Without evidence does that mean I can put up anybodies details on a poster and get them a fine? Genuine question.

That's total BS. A judge would take a dim view of a nonsense yarn like that. You or your agent erecting your posters leave you liable and the angel guardian defence holds no water in court.

Bluetonic

Miranda Round Stooge wrote: »

A judge would take a dim view of a nonsense yarn like that.

What if it was true? How could a court prove it wasn't?

Whilst your opinion is valued what does the littering law (act) say?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Bluetonic wrote: »

What if it was true? How could a court prove it wasn't?

Whilst your opinion is valued what does the littering law (act) say?

Actually the littering by-laws allow you be fined for littering even if some of the litter bears your name and it was dumped by someone else.

Maybe learn the law before giving advice that will only anger the judge!

Shelflife

Miranda Round Stooge wrote: »

Actually the littering by-laws allow you be fined for littering even if some of the litter bears your name and it was dumped by someone else.

Maybe learn the law before giving advice that will only anger the judge!

So if I dump some of my leaflets in my bin and a third party takes them (its not as unlikely as it sounds) and throws them all over the town, I can be fined even though it had nothing to do with me?

CamperMan

Hootanany wrote: »

The guy is trying to make a living not put his snout into thr gravy train shame on you

many of us are trying to make a living but I would have thought it was obvious that you cannot go putting posters up wherever you like without permission..

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Shelflife wrote: »

So if I dump some of my leaflets in my bin and a third party takes them (its not as unlikely as it sounds) and throws them all over the town, I can be fined even though it had nothing to do with me?

I'm afraid so. Likewise, if you pay to have the bin emptied and some spills or gets blown away.

Hootanany

When did he say they were blocking traffic lights or close to junctions get a life he is trying to get work

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Hootanany wrote: »

When dod je say they wete blocking traffic lights or close to junctions get a life he is trying to get work

Oh, I have a life and a great one already, thanks. I said I had reported posters at junctions (never mentioned traffice lights!) and rightly so on several fronts: not least that it is litter (under the law), is unsafe, and is unfair to those of us who go about it right and get permission, & pay for, legal advertising. We're all trying to get work at some point but most of us do so legally and without messing up the apearance of our environs.

"dod" "je" "wete"

RATM

ejmaztec wrote: »

I wonder what the county councils would do if they saw something like this above the roof of your house?

I'm not sure what the county council would say but the Civil Aviation Authority wouldn't be long in getting on to you

Hootanany

Miranda Round Stooge wrote: »

Oh, I have a life and a great one already, thanks. I said I had reported posters at junctions (never mentioned traffice lights!) and rightly so on several fronts: not least that it is litter (under the law), is unsafe, and is unfair to those of us who go about it right and get permission, & pay for, legal advertising. We're all trying to get work at some point but most of us do so legally and without messing up the apearance of our environs.

"dod" "je" "wete"

Sorry banana fingers on my phone:D


I agree with what you are saying somewhat, but if a contractor puts up a warning sign like Pedestrian use other side of the road, is that littering or the Utilities companies Working on behalf of"''

Again sorry for my spelling

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

No problem!

You really need to read up the full by-laws. Road safet and public safety are permitted signs but under licence for the work being carried out. It's basic Safe Site stuff and all employers/businesses should make themselves aware on this issue.

At that - me done - enough on a piddling Litter Fine.

The Movers

Thanks for the many replys,:D
Iv read everything and taken everything into account,
After many hours of careful thought ,Iv decided NOT TO PAY the fines under any circumstances what so ever.:P
Im not saying that Im innocent of this crime ,I just won't pay for it.
I can't honestly think of any good reason why I should.
I will keep you all posted on this,
Thanks for all the replays again.:)

gambit83

The Movers wrote: »

Thanks for the many replys,:D
Iv read everything and taken everything into account,
After many hours of careful thought ,Iv decided NOT TO PAY the fines under any circumstances what so ever.:P
Im not saying that Im innocent of this crime ,I just won't pay for it.
I can't honestly think of any good reason why I should.
I will keep you all posted on this,
Thanks for all the replays again.:)

how did this pan out?? did you pay the fines or were you brought to court??

JAMES VTI S

I guess the fine was paid :rolleyes:

ejmaztec wrote: »

I wonder what the county councils would do if they saw something like this above the roof of your house?

What they do in MERICA!

bookerboy

Take your chance in Court.
A Judge is very unlikely to fine you when trying to earn a living.
Council will more than likely back down because they know it will cost them more to go to court than they are likely to recieve in fines.
Why don't the Councils go after people like "We buy cars for cash" ?
They have the city and surrounding areas covered in signs and also stickers that can't be removed.
Why ?........Beacuse they know the Councils and Litter Wardens are afraid to go after them,and that's a Fact.

JAMES VTI S

what do you mean stickers, im from the sticks