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lost planning permission

  • 07-02-2012 10:21pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭✭ lav1


    hello all,

    in abit of a bind atm,
    my partner and myself are in the middle of buying a house and i got a phone call today from our solicitor to say that he never received the planning cert for the house with the rest of the details that where sent to him from the sellers solicitor.
    he was in contact with them and was told that the cert had been lost and they had been in contact with the concil but they didnt have a copy only a ref number from the planning stage, supposidly they,ve misplaced it and it cannot be found!
    basicly said that he couldnt get a copy and it was up to use if we still wanted to buy the house.
    our solicitor is looking into it to see if anything can be done to get a copy but i thought i,d ask on here aswell to see if anyone has had this type of problem or know of a way to get the cert.

    the house is,nt detached or a new'ish build, its in a large housing estate and about 25-30 years old.


    thanks in advance.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 37,372 ✭✭✭✭ Mellor


    Do the council have record of the planning being granted, includign any changes.
    if you can confirm that the hosue was built in accordance with plans then I'd be happy to proceed. But If i couldn't confirm I would, as I wouldn't want to be hit with retention for an extension without permission or similar.


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler


    lav1 wrote: »
    hello all,

    in abit of a bind atm,
    my partner and myself are in the middle of buying a house and i got a phone call today from our solicitor to say that he never received the planning cert for the house with the rest of the details that where sent to him from the sellers solicitor.
    he was in contact with them and was told that the cert had been lost and they had been in contact with the concil but they didnt have a copy only a ref number from the planning stage, supposidly they,ve misplaced it and it cannot be found!
    basicly said that he couldnt get a copy and it was up to use if we still wanted to buy the house.
    our solicitor is looking into it to see if anything can be done to get a copy but i thought i,d ask on here aswell to see if anyone has had this type of problem or know of a way to get the cert.

    the house is,nt detached or a new'ish build, its in a large housing estate and about 25-30 years old.


    thanks in advance.
    If its part of an estate and assuming the house has not been extended you could try the original developer, his architect or his solicitor to see if they would still have a copy of the PP. You could also knock on a couple of doors and ask your future neighbours if they ever had a copy - most likely the same PP would have been granted for adjacent houses.

    The council really should have a copy of the PP. Maybe its just a case of applying a little pressure. If the original file has been misplaced then there are documents called "manager's orders" which are the originally signed documents by the county manager and those would still be there. While you cant get a copy of it afaik you can however request a declaration from the planning dept confirming that the PP was issued on foot of a managers order.


  • Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭ 1865


    Find one of the County Councillors and ask them to help. Any personal connections you have would be a great help with that.

    Also go to the planning desk in the COunty Council and ask the staff there. They will probably know if there is a potential problem,

    I'm afraid that the only way to sort this is through legwork and chatting to people. Once they see that you are not out to cause trouble and just need a hand someone will help sort it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,864 ✭✭✭✭ mickdw


    I would be asking questions of the planning department. IMO, they should be able to come up with some document for you. I find it quite unbelieveable that the planning grant and or planning file for a whole housing estate has disappeared.


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭✭ lav1


    thanks for all the replys people,
    i,ll go to the cc and see what they say tomorrow if that fails i,ll start knocking on doors!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭✭ lav1


    well,
    i went to the c.c on Friday and after an hour all i got was two refusal letters for the planning of 640 houses from 1969 and 1970. that's all they could find.
    turns out the houses were built by park developments which are now out of business so i cant contact them to ask them.
    so i was given a number to ring the bye laws dept today and after 2/3 phone calls i was told that they have no more records.

    i also asked about the managers orders and was told that they would be with the original files which are the ones that are missing!

    so basically i was told that they cant do anything for me as they wont issue any form/letter stating the house has p.p because they cant check the file.

    what can i do now?


    thanks for all the help.


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,574 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    if you are in the process of purchasing the property, its the responsibility of the seller to sort out all these issues. Is this an inter-family sale, or simply a private sale?

    its not unheard of for there to be files missing, or drawings missing from files.

    Its sounds like the only course of action at the moment is to apply for permission to retain the property in full. The cost of this should be borne by the seller.


  • Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 43,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭ muffler


    +1 to the above by sydthebeat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭✭ lav1


    its not a inter family sale its just an ordinary buy/sell.
    i know it,s up to the seller but i had some time on my hands so just trying to speed things up abit.
    i,ll get in contact with my solicitor tomorrow and see what he can do regarding getting the seller to apply for retention.

    thanks,


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 archtech


    There may be a possibility that there is a copy of the planning permission attached to the vendors title deeds which was/is lodged with their Mortgage as this would be a normal requirement.
    Whether the file is lost or not the planning authority still have to have a reference for the planning application on foot of which the dwelling was built and should be in a position to legally confirm same by letter or otherwise.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Margeret




  • Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭ C. Eastwood


    Margaret. Could you state your problem with planning permission.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Margeret


    My seller made number of calls to county council. I am not sure did he tried planning permission directly. I ask with my seller. Thanks for the response.



  • Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭ C. Eastwood


    Margaret. The most helpful people to get the necessary information you require is from is the Enforcement Dept in the Local Planning Office. Get the Planning Reference number of address or Eircode, from your solicitor and make an appointment with an Enforcement Officers. Request them to give your solicitor a letter confirmation the status of the Planning for the property. They are always very helpful. It would also be helpful if you had a Surveyor to give you help and advice in sorting out the planning issues, which can be complicated.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Margeret


    Eastwood thank you so much. I will contact the enforcement deptmt and see any help I get from them .. thanks for your response



  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Margeret


    Eastwood my seller also said that the mother planning permission for the entire estate is missing from the council, not only one house the entire housing estate is involved .



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