Cycling lights too bright!

BostonB

I never really thought it was possible to get a bicycle light thats too bright, and one thats dangerous as others have suggested here, but I saw one tonight. Might even be a boardsie.

Someone going through the park on a MTB with two front lights on strobe, with a brightness brighter then a cars dim beam, maybe even as bright as cars full beam. You could see this brighter than all the cars from at least a third of the park away. Up close in traffic, or coming up behind you, it was like someone flashing a bright torch in your eyes. It was bouncing off every surface, cars, van, I had to look away tbh. I was travelling in the same direction I dread to think what it was like head on. It was right at driver eye height too.

Ironically enough in the park the cyclist was hard to see, because you were distracted by the flashing (off everything) and the cyclist had no rear lights or reflectors that I could see. I was going to stop and ask them what the heck lights they had, but I didn't want to face into those lights.

I'll be a bit more careful with my own cycle lights after seeing that mobile nova tonight.

tomasrojo

Much the same thing happened to me a few weeks back: cyclist approaching me on the two-way cycle lane on Inchicore Road -- so much closer to me than approaching cyclists usually are -- with two front lights on full (though constant). I was so dazzled I could barely see the road after he passed me.

(Doctor Bob might disagree, but while I'm somewhat guilty of over-illumination, I don't think I actually scorch retinas.)

Mycroft H

Its all about the angle. Dipped headlights are angled onto the road for that reason. Stupid cyclists don't realise this

BostonB

I think the fast strobe made it much worse too. I'd never seen a bike light I thought was too bright before.

doozerie

I've had problems with the lights of other cyclists too. Bright flashing front lights I find blinding and distracting as they approach, not very bright flashing lights I find distracting only but that's still not good for me or for the approaching cyclist (particularly if I'm driving - it's a very odd thing but some of the more weird front light combinations, usually flashing, draw my attention so much that I find myself nearly drifting towards them either on bike or in the car. Might just be me though!).

One evening last week, while cycling home, I glanced over my right shoulder to check for traffic before overtaking a cyclist ahead of me. But there was a cyclist behind me, and a little to my right, whose bright flashing front light made it extremely difficult for me to see if the car behind them was actually too close to allow me to overtake safely or not. Mr flashy light overtook me instead 'cos presumably he had nothing behind him to impede his view. I really don't like flashing bright front lights, I think in many circumstances they are annoying but in some circumstances they can create dangers for the person using them (I find them blinding when I see them in the rear view mirror of the car too and you really don't want to be passing out, or anywhere near, a car being driven by someone who is temporarily dazzled). I consider bright solid front lights to be plenty adequate, though my current thinking is that one (solid) light on the helmet and one (solid) light on the bars will be my best combination as the helmet one should help me catch the attention of those arses pulling out of side roads that simply refuse to acknowledge my presence despite almost certainly seeing me.

Similarly, bright flashing rear lights cause me problems too as I approach them. And again, particularly when driving this causes me problems as I find it hard to accurately gauge my distance from the cyclist since the bright flashing makes it very hard for me to keep an eye on their bike. Bright rear lights on solid or slow flash don't cause this problem for me and that's how I use my own rear lights on the bike.

tomasrojo

doozerie wrote: »

it's a very odd thing but some of the more weird front light combinations, usually flashing, draw my attention so much that I find myself nearly drifting towards them either on bike or in the car.

I've seen this mentioned elsewhere, including something about people who are intoxicated being particularly prone to driving towards flashing lights. I don't know what the evidence for this claim is though.

EDIT: http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/motheffect.html

Doctor Bob

tomasrojo wrote: »

(Doctor Bob might disagree, but while I'm somewhat guilty of over-illumination, I don't think I actually scorch retinas.)

Over-illuminated? Not at all. As my grandmother taught me, one never says "I'm full" after a meal, one says "I have had an ample sufficiency". I think the same applies to your lights.

ednwireland

BostonB wrote: »

Cycling lights too bright!

you saw him though, no such thing in my book

Caroline_ie

I train in the park a lot during the week after dark and I use my HOPE Vision ( and a fenix on the helmet, but it's on weak )

I usually half mask it with my hand when I see a cyclist ( albeit a salmon ) approaching from the other direction ONLY if they are lit themselves. If it's a Ninja, I make sure they see how well I am lit.

I tend to mask it also when I come across a jogger that look like they're doing some proper training and are lit or wearing Hi viz.

If they're walking their dog ninja style = shine it and sometime I shine my helmet light right at them to make a point.

I rarely use the cycle lane for training, but I cycle on it when I done my interval to get back to KM-0 of my training route at the moment ( the President's gaf)

doozerie

ednwireland wrote: »

you saw him though, no such thing in my book

Tell that to the poor bunny.

ednwireland

doozerie wrote: »

Tell that to the poor bunny.

you know what really gets me though is car drivers who have 110w of main beam and unless you fry their retinas wont dip their headlights

mal1

I've had the same problem. It almost sounds like I've met the same person as the OP. Some of lights on helmets that I have approached can also be very distracting and in my opinion aren't suited to Urban traffic. They are solely made for seeing stuff in the dark.

I often have this one guy behind me on the commute to work, it's like you're escaping from jail as the spot light fellows you along the cycle lane. In this case, it's more annoying that anything else but definitely dangerous if you're facing into the light.

Eamonnator

Hard to strike the right balance, isn't it??

Lumen

Eamonnator wrote: »

Hard to strike the right balance, isn't it??

Not really. You just have to turn on your lights, walk round to the front of your bike (at a reasonable distance) and make sure you're not blinding yourself. This is hard with dynamo lights admittedly, but those are bolted to the bike so don't tend to move.

Alternatively align the front lights indoors by rolling the bike towards a wall, door or whatever. If the bright area moves down the wall, your lights are pointed downwards (good). Otherwise bad.

Solair

The flashing lights are really really annoying and distracting.

Are they even legal?

I thought it's supposed to be a constantly white light on the front and red on the back.

Lumen

Solair wrote: »

The flashing lights...Are they even legal?

Yes.

BostonB

ednwireland wrote: »

you saw him though, no such thing in my book

Actually I didn't.

I could only see what was being lit up, l and couldn't look in the mirrors because it was blinding. I only saw him when he went past, side on. From behind he was invisible, (no lights or reflectors) you could only see what he lit up.

Get someone to shine a LED torch in your face, then try to see past them. You can't. Also when you look away you'll have bright spots which blind you for a few seconds afterwards, might even take a minute or two to fade away.

doozerie

ednwireland wrote:

you know what really gets me though is car drivers who have 110w of main beam and unless you fry their retinas wont dip their headlights

I find that the brightest or most obnoxiously flashing lights on bicycles are just as problematic when they are angled to point at my eye level. I may have to start carrying a mirror to reflect their light back at them so that they can wage their retina-melting battle against themselves.

BostonB

Some dims on cars are too bright too. Needs to be some regulation on these lights I reckon.

My point was I didn't think you could have lights too bright on a bicycle. Well I've been proved wrong. Thats coming from someone who has up to 5 lights on their bicycle at times.

Seve OB

I don't get flashin lights at all, front or back, what is the point of them?

I have a bright constant beam on front pointed at the ground about 10 feet ahead of me.

Similarily on the back I have a bright large red light on constant.

My rear one has unbeliavable options to flash like crazy, but why does a bike need to have these flashing lights when a car or motorbike just has constant lights?

Lumen

BostonB wrote: »

Some dims on cars are too bright too. Needs to be some regulation on these lights I reckon.

There is. AFAIK headlight alignment is checked in the NCT, and is a standard part of a garage service - workshop bays usually have a wall for checking this.

Cars with standard incandescent bulbs usually have a manual adjustment knob on the dash for changing level to compensate for variations in loading (e.g. fatties in the back).

Cars with HIDs must have automatically self-leveling of the lights, because maladjusted HIDS are horribly blinding.

Lumen

stevieob wrote: »

I don't get flashin lights at all, front or back, what is the point of them?

The batteries last much longer.

Seve OB

Lumen wrote: »

The batteries last much longer.

true, but the batterries last ages in mine even when on constant.

there should be legal guidelines drawn up.

PS, nearly killed a ninja the other day when i was driving, the little bollix scared the sh1t out of me!

Dermot Illogical

stevieob wrote: »

but why does a bike need to have these flashing lights when a car or motorbike just has constant lights?

Bike doesn't have an alternator?

BostonB

Lumen wrote: »

There is. AFAIK headlight alignment is checked in the NCT, and is a standard part of a garage service - workshop bays usually have a wall for checking this....

I meant for brightness. I take your point that many are maladjusted, but those blue/white lights are just too bright.

Mycroft H

Solair wrote: »

The flashing lights are really really annoying and distracting.

Are they even legal?

I thought it's supposed to be a constantly white light on the front and red on the back.

Flashing lights have been legal for quite a while

Tenzor07

Some people's light's are just ridiculous though!

BostonB

LOL

stevieob wrote: »

I don't get flashin lights at all, front or back, what is the point of them?..

I'd say the main point of a flashing light is they are more visible than a standard light. Especially in a sea of other lights, a flashing light stands out. But they shouldn't be blinding or disorientating, which they are if too bright. They aren't useful to see the road, or judge distance. As such you may also need a steady light in addition to a flashing light.

BostonB

There are standards though...

In the UK, the regulations governing bicycle lights are set out in the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989[4] and their subsequent amendments, summarized in the Highway Code.[5] The regulations require a white front light, a red rear light, a red rear reflector, and amber/yellow pedal reflectors on the front and rear of both pedals. Reflectors must conform to BS 6102/2 or an equivalent European standard. The situation for lights is more complicated:
a light with a steady mode is considered approved only if it conforms to BS 6102/3 or an equivalent European standard;
a light without a steady mode is considered approved only if it flashes at a constant rate of between 60 to 240 flashes per minute and has a luminous intensity of at least 4 candela;
The majority of LED lights available are not approved for UK use since they have steady modes that do not conform to BS 6102/3. It is, however, legal to fit additional lights providing that they are of the correct colour, they do not dazzle other road users and that if they flash, they do so at a constant rate of between 60 and 240 flashes per minute.

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

Not really. You just have to turn on your lights, walk round to the front of your bike (at a reasonable distance) and make sure you're not blinding yourself. This is hard with dynamo lights admittedly, but those are bolted to the bike so don't tend to move.

Alternatively align the front lights indoors by rolling the bike towards a wall, door or whatever. If the bright area moves down the wall, your lights are pointed downwards (good). Otherwise bad.

Two average car lengths in front is a good distance for the brightest spot of the light, for me at least. So I just check that once in a while when I'm passing parallel-parked cars.

Captain Havoc

I use a really bright light, it's kind of funny seeing cars not pulling out of side roads because they think I'm a car with one light working or a motorbike. I do aim the light slightly left and down a bit though, I'm sure the lights annoy some cars especially as they constantly slip upwards a bit, then I obviously face them down a bit.

reallyunique

The whole visibility thing has been on my mind recently and came up again yesterday when my 10 year old daughter was hit whilst cycling home from school yesterday (she's fine but the driver just drove off and she was too shook-up to get his number).

Distracting and attracting:
Lights that flash or are too numerous or are too bright both distract other road users and simultaneously attract their attention away from the road in general. If you pay too much attention to one thing you'll miss something else and this doesn't promote safety.

Too small a target:
The little pin-pricks of light put out by modern lights just aren't enough to allow motorists to see you properly. If you look straight at the light then fine, you're visible, but it's too small a target to become and remain visible in peripheral vision. Brightly coloured jackets (high viz) really do help. They don't shine but they do act as a larger object to attract attention and, unlike red and white lights, they don't get lost in the visual clutter of the urban road-scape.

So what works best?
Bright, reflective clothing stands out from the surroundings, is understood and identified with "cyclist" and in urban areas really helps.
A forward facing light of reasonable brightness and fairly tight beam (properly aligned) can illuminate the road ahead and make you visible to cars. A cheaper white light with decent light scattering ability (like some rear lights but white instead) can increase the light-area around your bike and help with off-axis visibility.
At least two steady rear lights, not too bright, one low, one higher up, to increase the area of your light signature.

Of course, none of this would have saved my daughter as it was broad daylight and she was rammed at the bikes rear axle by a car coming from a side road. You simply can't do anything to help if road users aren't looking at you.

Chips Lovell

It really takes a special kind of scumbag to hit a child and then drive off.

BostonB

reallyunique wrote: »

...
The little pin-pricks of light put out by modern lights just aren't enough to allow motorists to see you properly....

"Modern lights" what does that mean? If you buy a tiny light that the fault of the buyer. You can buy incredibly bright modern lights.

Glad your daughters ok.

tomasrojo

BostonB wrote: »

"Modern lights" what does that mean? If you buy a tiny light that the fault of the buyer. You can buy incredibly bright modern lights.

Yeah, I think it's fair to say, given the original post, that modern lights can be incredibly bright!

tomasrojo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It really takes a special kind of scumbag to hit a child and then drive off.

Happened to my wife when she was a child (nothing to do with cycling). Her mother campaigned to get a pedestrian light installed on the street after that; succeeded too. (She recovered as well.)

Wishbone Ash

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It really takes a special kind of scumbag to hit a child and then drive off.

As a child in the 1970's, I was on a main road passing a minor road when a motorist pulled out colliding with me. I wasn't seriously injured but he got out and slapped me across the face for scratching his car. Unthinkable nowadays!

Surveyor11

Just passed him at castleknock, they sure are bright, 10/10 for visibility, pity he's not at visible at the back though

Caroline_ie

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Just passed him at castleknock, they sure are bright, 10/10 for visibility, pity he's not at visible at the back though

I think I passed him too, in the Phoenix park around 7:15PM going towards castleknock. Was that him? Mad lights!

Mycroft H

How did people manage years ago with only a dynamo and a black high nelly....

Surveyor11

Caroline_ie wrote: »

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Just passed him at castleknock, they sure are bright, 10/10 for visibility, pity he's not at visible at the back though

I think I passed him too, in the Phoenix park around 7:15PM going towards castleknock. Was that him? Mad lights!

Looks like our man, i've been out-lumened

tomasrojo

BX 19 wrote: »

How did people manage years ago with only a dynamo and a black high nelly....

Or carbide lamps.

Kintarō Hattori

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I use a really bright light, it's kind of funny seeing cars not pulling out of side roads because they think I'm a car with one light working or a motorbike. I do aim the light slightly left and down a bit though, I'm sure the lights annoy some cars especially as they constantly slip upwards a bit, then I obviously face them down a bit.

I agree with you Captain. The light I'm using at the moment doesn't put out a lot of lumen, just 160 but it is very bright. It's amazing the difference it's made. Cars for the most part wait for you to pass when coming out of a side road or if they are waiting to cross in front of you onto a side road they'll wait until you've gone past.

It's made a really tremendous difference.

BostonB

Surveyor11 wrote: »

Just passed him at castleknock, they sure are bright, 10/10 for visibility, pity he's not at visible at the back though

Caroline_ie wrote: »

I think I passed him too, in the Phoenix park around 7:15PM going towards castleknock. Was that him? Mad lights!

LOL

Theres no mistaking this guy. Was about the same time last night. Seriously bright blue/white strobes. I've seen sheet lightening with less flash.

The other weird thing is he has both on strobe. When I'm in town, I have one on steady the other flash, when I hit the park I put the flashing one to steady aswell, and pointed at the path. One slightly ahead of the other. He was on the road last night, so maybe he doesn't need to see the road, (its nice and smooth at the moment) but for me looking at the ground with a flash would do my head in. Never mind two flashing, at atomic levels.

BostonB

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

...The light I'm using at the moment doesn't put out a lot of lumen, just 160 but it is very bright. ....

What light is that. I'm just using 2x50 lumen lights. I'd say the're just enough to comfortably see the path, at my speed on my commute. I dunno how people hammer through the park with almost no lights, as many do. If I was going faster I would like something a little brighter yes. But I don't need stadium lights either.

Kintarō Hattori

BostonB wrote: »

What light is that. I'm just using 2x50 lumen lights. I'd say the're just enough to comfortably see the path, at my speed on my commute. I dunno how people hammer through the park with almost no lights, as many do. If I was going faster I would like something a little brighter yes. But I don't need stadium lights either.

http://www.peats.com/cgi-bin/catalog_v2.cgi?id=28699&type=product

For my commute at the moment I don't need anything to light up the road as it's mostly very well lit but I do want something that gets me seen and this does the job fairly well. I think it's a fairly generic design so I'm sure it can be bought elsewhere for cheaper.

I can't understand any cyclist not using lights of some sort- it's just idiotic and there's no excuse for it when they can be bought so cheaply.

Lusk Doyle

Caroline_ie wrote: »

If it's a Ninja, I make sure they see how well I am lit.

If they're walking their dog ninja style = shine it and sometime I shine my helmet light right at them to make a point.

You are SO tough. In your [collective] faces ninjas! :rolleyes:

Seve OB

This is what I have,

http://www.cateye.com/en/products/detail/HL-EL530/

Wasn't that cheap, €70ish in Halfords but I got it with my helmet and lock on a 3 for 2 deal.

It is all I use on the front, and it well sufficiently bright enough to get me noticed and light up the road, without blinding anyone.

I have this on the back, and generally keep it on constant mode, the flashing would be enought to make anyone dizzy. About €25 from CRC I think

http://www.cateye.com/en/products/detail/TL-LD570-R/

gman2k

I think this is a good one'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5ISjJ8tAbY

gman2k

And then I found this HID torch




Maybe a little big for the handlebars?

BostonB

Depends on the bike...
http://www.guzer.com/pictures/biggest_bike.jpg