Fuel Price Protest

gonko

As above, the hauliers are planning a protest in the next few weeks to the best of my knowledge. I propose that on this day everyone else does at LEAST 1 of the following:

1) Get out and join them and represent the average motorist;
2) Boycott filling up your car or buying fuel of any sort on this day.

If we do not take action we will continue to be walked on. I have another few ideas up my sleeve on how we can perhaps get a message across. I am testing the water with some ideas on car owners enthusiast websites and so on. But this affects not only enthusiasts, but every single person the length and breadth of this country.
Enough is enough.
I welcome any other ideas and feedback. I will also attach a poll and vote if you would boycott filling stations for a particular day.

Anan1

I presume your issue is with the level of tax on fuel? If so, you'll have to do without my support.

Jimdagym

What is your ultimate goal?
What reduction do you want on petrol/diesel?
What cost will this have to the exchequer?
How do you suggest the exchequer recoups this loss?


I'm all for action, as long as it is more thought out than "lets just not buy fuel that day". The only people that will get to is the garage owners.

kildare.17hmr

If its not a friday sure coz i only fill up once a week! But in fairness its not gonna work and its not the petrol stations fault, they make very little profit on fuel

-Corkie-

Anan1 wrote: »

I presume your issue is with the level of tax on fuel? If so, you'll have to do without my support.

Why??

NIMAN

If people are to boycott petrol stations on a certain day then they may just end up buying more fuel on an earlier day, which won't affect much?

I'd join in, but I don't think it will have much effect, as people are now so lazy they wouldn't walk the length of themselves and will pay for fuel whatever the price.

Atomic Pineapple

Same here I only buy petrol once a week, a day without any sales isn't going to make any difference to the petrol stations as everyone will have to fill up at some stage anyway. And it's not even anything to do with the petrol stations in the first place anyway!

Atomic Pineapple

-Corkie- wrote: »

Why??

The petrol stations don't set the amount of tax so why is the protest against them is what I think Anan1 is getting at.

EPM

I usually fill up every 4-5 days so yeah, no problem...as long as I don't need diesel.

Anan1

-Corkie- wrote: »

Why??

Short term because we need the money, and long term because we need to reduce peoples reliance on cars.

-Corkie-

Anan1 wrote: »

Short term because we need the money, and long term because we need to reduce peoples reliance on cars.

So if the goverment were to put another 10c on fuel tomorrow I take it you would have no problem??.

bazz26

gonko wrote: »

As above, the hauliers are planning a protest in the next few weeks to the best of my knowledge. I propose that on this day everyone else does at LEAST 1 of the following:

1) Get out and join them and represent the average motorist;
2) Boycott filling up your car or buying fuel of any sort on this day.

If we do not take action we will continue to be walked on. I have another few ideas up my sleeve on how we can perhaps get a message across. I am testing the water with some ideas on car owners enthusiast websites and so on. But this affects not only enthusiasts, but every single person the length and breadth of this country.
Enough is enough.
I welcome any other ideas and feedback. I will also attach a poll and vote if you would boycott filling stations for a particular day.

I'm not trying to be negative but something like that was planned before and fizzled out as people realised boycotting filling up for one day doesn't achieves anything. People still need to put fuel in their vehicles so they will either put extra fuel in the days before the protest or afterwards when they run out, which means the same duty and tax will still be collected, just not on one particular day.

It's a bit like the calls I have been reading on social networks for a nationwide strike to be held on St Patrick's Day when the majority of the country is already on a Public Holiday! :eek:

The only way this will work is if people stop using their vehicles for say one day but what are the chances of that?

Anan1

draffodx wrote: »

The petrol stations don't set the amount of tax so why is the protest against them is what I think Anan1 is getting at.

I'm afraid not.:) The petrol stations are private businesses, they can sink or swim on their own. What i'm opposed to is a reduction in the tax take on fuel, or, more exactly, the money thus lost being clawed back either through other taxes or cuts in services.

Anan1

-Corkie- wrote: »

So if the goverment were to put another 10c on fuel tomorrow I take it you would have no problem??.

Correct. I wouldn't enjoy paying more, but i'd be supportive of the reasoning behind it.

gonko

Guys this is not a protest on petrol stations. This is a protest against the amount of duty and tax charged on fuel. It is a basic need in this day and age that people NEED petrol/diesel, add to the fact that haulier companies are paying more for their fuel, increase deliver charges, passes onto the end customer of products. This is a different issue from people who can no longer afford to run their cars. At the very least the duties on fuel should be adjusted so as Dollar v Euro changes do not alter the prices.

As I said any other ideas are welcome.

urajoke

I boycott fuel stations 9 out of every 10 days.

Remember they are only selling a product that is set at that price because the Government have added a MASSIVE amount of taxes and duties to it. The protest should be directed towards the government more IMHO. Plus if I don't fill up tomorrow I would have filled up tonight or the day after, I still need the fuel one way or the other. It's not a luxury it's a neccesity.

leeroybrown

No because I think it's a pointless gesture protest that achieves nothing.

-Corkie-

Anan1 wrote: »

Correct. I wouldn't enjoy paying more, but i'd be supportive of the reasoning behind it.

What about transport companies??. The price is crippling every Haulier with many going out of business as a result with drivers/staff on the dole,costing the state money..

Bandara

I'd do it before Thursday if I was you cause its going up around two cents a liter after that

Big Nasty

I voted no because it's not the fuel stations fault. It would be better to protest outside the minister for transports office or whatever.

Fuel is ridiculously expensive now at almost €1.60 per litre for petrol. Also remember every time fuel goes up so do transport costs so hauliers have to charge more which in turn goes to the end user, i.e. the consumer.

Fuel up = everything up.

gonko

Anan1 wrote: »

Short term because we need the money, and long term because we need to reduce peoples reliance on cars.

-Corkie- wrote: »

So if the goverment were to put another 10c on fuel tomorrow I take it you would have no problem??.

Anan1 wrote: »

Correct. I wouldn't enjoy paying more, but i'd be supportive of the reasoning behind it.

Anan1, you do realise your argument has no reasoning behind it whatsoever. Forget about our bailout and need to repay money for one second. If the govt put 10c on fuel, what sort of economy are we going to have? We have already seen the effect of taking money out of the economy and it is slowly adding to our problems. More money paid on taxes and duties means less money to spend elsewhere in the economy, economy suffers, more people lose their jobs. I think you need to look at both sides of the equation.
In relation to paying back the bailout money and so on.....it is not possible by reducing our deficit alone. We will NEED to grow the economy to have any chance of paying it back.

Bullseye1

It's all fine saying we need to reduce our reliance on the car. But before you can effectively do that you need a proper public transport. Can you honestly see any Irish government ever acieving that? Ever? We have the most unqualified bunch of monkies as politicians and senior civil servants. Just look at Dublin City Council and their waste management policy.

Anan1

gonko wrote: »

Guys this is not a protest on petrol stations. This is a protest against the amount of duty and tax charged on fuel. It is a basic need in this day and age that people NEED petrol/diesel

The amount of fuel people need is a direct consequence of choices they themselves made about home ownership, where to live, and where to work. We currently have people living in Portlaoise and commuting daily to Dublin - this is an insane state of affairs.

Anan1

gonko wrote: »

Anan1, you do realise your argument has no reasoning behind it whatsoever. Forget about our bailout and need to repay money for one second. If the govt put 10c on fuel, what sort of economy are we going to have? We have already seen the effect of taking money out of the economy and it is slowly adding to our problems. More money paid on taxes and duties means less money to spend elsewhere in the economy, economy suffers, more people lose their jobs. I think you need to look at both sides of the equation.
In relation to paying back the bailout money and so on.....it is not possible by reducing our deficit alone. We will NEED to grow the economy to have any chance of paying it back.

Money paid in tax doesn't just disappear - that 10c/litre could allow tax breaks elsewhere to stimulate growth.

Anan1

-Corkie- wrote: »

What about transport companies??. The price is crippling every Haulier with many going out of business as a result with drivers/staff on the dole,costing the state money..

You could have tax breaks for certain industries. For example, it was suggested here before that we get rid of green diesel and allow the farmers to reclaim the tax on fuel used instead.

Bullseye1

Anan1 wrote: »

The amount of fuel people need is a direct consequence of choices they themselves made about home ownership, where to live, and where to work. We currently have people living in Portlaoise and commuting daily to Dublin - this is an insane state of affairs.

The reason they are commuting these distances is because property prices in Dublin precluded them from buying. It's also the Irish culture of wanting to own property. But this is getting off topic.

If fuel prices continue to rise then everything from bread to milk will also rise. These items have to be transported. We have Enda saying we need to drive down prices her VAT was increased. If your want to stimulate this economy we need to get people spending. A sure way of preventing this is raising VAT.

Bullseye1

Anan1 wrote: »

Money paid in tax doesn't just disappear - that 10c/litre could allow tax breaks elsewhere to stimulate growth.

Your saying that government does not waste? Of course tax disappears its wasted on a daily basis by government.

Jimdagym

I presume all these hauliers that arre filling up in Holland and saving a fortune, while also depriving the government of revenue, will be avoiding this protest?

gonko

Anan1 wrote: »

Money paid in tax doesn't just disappear - that 10c/litre could allow tax breaks elsewhere to stimulate growth.

Do you really believe that? WOW :eek:

So cutting peoples fuel bills and transport companies fuel bills will not stimulate growth?
People will have a little more disposable income. And transport companies can be more competitive. This can lead to a lower cost base for them and allow them to expand and hire more staff. Retail prices may also be adjusted to show this too. Now that is how growth starts. You have to stop thinking about this from a taxation point of view. Ie. take from here and give to there. That is not how it has to work. The ecomonomic benefit of lower taxes on fuel will far outweigh the temporary shortfall in revenues generated.

You have to see the bigger picture when talking about tax breaks and so on. This government is shockingly bad. I know we have liabilities in Europe and if the government grew a set and told them we need to extend the payback period to slightly longer than what we got....the benefit would be huge. Going off topic here but they are the facts.

johnners2981

Anan1 wrote: »

The amount of fuel people need is a direct consequence of choices they themselves made about home ownership, where to live, and where to work. We currently have people living in Portlaoise and commuting daily to Dublin - this is an insane state of affairs.

So you're saying everyone should move to Dublin? Maybe if Dublin wasn't the only place with some sort of public transport people wouldn't be so reliant on cars.

It is highly ignorant of you thinking that everyone chooses where they work

RXMPS

Anan1 wrote: »

Money paid in tax doesn't just disappear - that 10c/litre could allow tax breaks elsewhere to stimulate growth.

If people can't go to the shops there is no economy:rolleyes:

If fuel was 1 euro a litre, you would see alot more people going to tourist spots like Killarney, Wicklow spending money, at restaurants, shops, amenities etc.

If fuel was 1 euro a litre, people would have no problem driving into the cities for a bit of shop browsing, cinema and all that.

It's so expensive now that people have become boring.

No one is going anywhere, most are sitting in home every evening watching the pennies, if fuel keeps going up it's going to get worse.

People are thinking about fuel costs now and that's very bad for the economy.

-Corkie-

Jimdagym wrote: »

I presume all these hauliers that arre filling up in Holland and saving a fortune, while also depriving the government of revenue, will be avoiding this protest?

Its either fill in Holland or close the gate. Which would you choose..

mcwhirter

Blocking the motorways was done in britain on the M6 a few years ago and brought out the tractors, not sure of outcome though

Jimdagym

-Corkie- wrote: »

Its either fill in Holland or close the gate. Which would you choose..

I'd fill in Holland, and I wouldnt join in protests here.

gonko

mcwhirter wrote: »

Blocking the motorways is the best way, start with the M50 for instance. They did it in britain on the M6 a few years ago and brought out the tractors, not sure of outcome though

Yeah that does seem like a good place to start. The funny thing is a cut in fuel prices will let people spend elsewhere in retail and so on. The govt probably wont be down alot in revenue initially, but if people have more disposable income this will lead to growth, and that is ultimately where we need to be.

JazzyJ

Jimdagym wrote: »

I presume all these hauliers that arre filling up in Holland and saving a fortune, while also depriving the government of revenue, will be avoiding this protest?

I don't know where you're getting that from - last time I was over the (about 5 years ago) I was paying almost 1.50 a litre.

The price of fuel isn't that much different from many other European countries.

And its only ever going to be going in one direction and that's up.

RXMPS

gonko wrote: »

Yeah that does seem like a good place to start. The funny thing is a cut in fuel prices will let people spend elsewhere in retail and so on. The govt probably wont be down alot in revenue initially, but if people have more disposable income this will lead to growth, and that is ultimately where we need to be.

How the goverment can't see that?

It's just incredible how stupid they are, a 5 year old could tell you that.

Anan1

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The reason they are commuting these distances is because property prices in Dublin precluded them from buying. It's also the Irish culture of wanting to own property. But this is getting off topic.

It's actually right on topic. People made those decisions because, at the time, long-distance commuting made financial sense. I'd like to see that change.

johnners2981 wrote: »

So you're saying everyone should move to Dublin? Maybe if Dublin wasn't the only place with some sort of public transport people wouldn't be so reliant on cars.

It is highly ignorant of you thinking that everyone chooses where they work

No, i'm saying that people should live closer to where they work. Commuting wastes fuel, costs money, harms the environment and, most importantly, wastes time. People aren't going to change their habits voluntarily, which is why i'm in favour of increasing the cost of using private cars.

Anan1

gonko wrote: »

Yeah that does seem like a good place to start. The funny thing is a cut in fuel prices will let people spend elsewhere in retail and so on. The govt probably wont be down alot in revenue initially, but if people have more disposable income this will lead to growth, and that is ultimately where we need to be.

If that's the aim then why fuel? Why not reduce income taxes instead?

mcwhirter

Anan1 wrote: »

It's actually right on topic. People made those decisions because, at the time, long-distance commuting made financial sense. I'd like to see that change.No, i'm saying that people should live closer to where they work. Commuting wastes fuel, costs money, harms the environment and, most importantly, wastes time. People aren't going to change their habits voluntarily, which is why i'm in favour of increasing the cost of using private cars.

I'd like to live closer to new job, but unfortunately difficult to move as in negative equity like half the population. Also no public transport where I live, increasing car costs would be the nail in the coffin for me anyhow.

Jimdagym

JazzyJ wrote: »

I don't know where you're getting that from - last time I was over the (about 5 years ago) I was paying almost 1.50 a litre.

The price of fuel isn't that much different from many other European countries.

And its only ever going to be going in one direction and that's up.

It was on the news last week. Drivers saving hundreds a fill, costing the exchequer millions.

I'm not judging, btw, but if these specific hauliers joined the protest, I feel that would be hypocritical. I also fully accept that the government could do with getting these drivers spending back home.

gonko

Anan1 wrote: »

It's actually right on topic. People made those decisions because, at the time, long-distance commuting made financial sense. I'd like to see that change.No, i'm saying that people should live closer to where they work. Commuting wastes fuel, costs money, harms the environment and, most importantly, wastes time. People aren't going to change their habits voluntarily, which is why i'm in favour of increasing the cost of using private cars.

I actually cannot take you seriously. The reason people are living down the country is because house prices in Dublin went mad to the point where purchasing at those prices would have been insane. If you are in favour of increasing motoring costs then give reasons. Its not good enough to come on here and make those comments without explaining your opinions. I dont think you are educated to the costs invloved long term

Bullseye1

Actually if people took your advice and bought an apartment in Dublin they would be in the category of people with the greatest amount of negative equity.

Anan1 wrote: »

It's actually right on topic. People made those decisions because, at the time, long-distance commuting made financial sense. I'd like to see that change.No, i'm saying that people should live closer to where they work. Commuting wastes fuel, costs money, harms the environment and, most importantly, wastes time. People aren't going to change their habits voluntarily, which is why i'm in favour of increasing the cost of using private cars.

Anan1

mcwhirter wrote: »

I'd like to live closer to new job, but unfortunately difficult to move as in negative equity like half the population. Also no public transport where I live, increasing car costs would be the nail in the coffin for me anyhow.

Short term it's going to be painful. But if it had been done earlier than many, many people would have been saved from ever finding themselves in this position in the first place.

Anan1

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Actually if people took your advice and bought an apartment in Dublin they would be in the category of people with the greatest amount of negative equity.

Where did I advise this? If you're going to reply then you might at least take the trouble to read what I said first.:)

ardmacha

So cutting peoples fuel bills and transport companies fuel bills will not stimulate growth?

Not really. The people would have to pay higher taxes on income, other purchases, property etc instead. If not having enough taxes stimulated growth then the Irish economy would be roaring now as it isn't collecting anywhere near enough tax.

JazzyJ

Jimdagym wrote: »

It was on the news last week. Drivers saving hundreds a fill, costing the exchequer millions.

I'm not judging, btw, but if these specific hauliers joined the protest, I feel that would be hypocritical. I also fully accept that the government could do with getting these drivers spending back home.

A quick google says that either the news or the drivers are telling porkies.

http://www.aaireland.ie/AA/Motoring-advice/Petrol-Prices.aspx

http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

Joey the lips

Whats boycotting a filling station going to do to the govt?

Just has me thinking!

Jimdagym

JazzyJ wrote: »

A quick google says that either the news or the drivers are telling porkies.

http://www.aaireland.ie/AA/Motoring-advice/Petrol-Prices.aspx

http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

One of your links has 1.42, the other has 1.32. Both for diesel, bith significantly cheaper than here, so I dont get your point.

mcwhirter

Anan1 wrote: »

Short term it's going to be painful. But if it had been done earlier than many, many people would have been saved from ever finding themselves in this position in the first place.

It was never cheap to run a car here in the 'good old days' either but with fuel costs now, its getting out of hand.

It's easy to comment now on what has happened over the last few years.

Anan1

mcwhirter wrote: »

It was never cheap to run a car here in the 'good old days' either but with fuel costs now, its getting out of hand.

It was cheap enough to make commuting half way across the country on a daily basis seem like a reasonable idea to some. And in my book that's too cheap.

And let's all drop this red herring about wanting to lower fuel prices to stimulate the economy - if that's what you want then lower income tax, or even VAT.