Ian Paisley taken to hospital, suspected heart attack [READ MOD WARNING POST #1]]

dlofnep

Ian Paisley, is apparently in intensive care at the moment in Ulster Hospital after a suspected heart attack. Big Ian has certainly been a polarising figure in Irish politics, but I would certainly take no pleasure in the suffering of others - so I extend best wishes to his family.

MOD NOTE: Critiquing political behavior is fine. Reveling in illness or death is not. Please keep this in mind before posting on this thread.

briany

dlofnep wrote: »

Ian Paisley, is apparently in intensive care at the moment in Ulster Hospital after a suspected heart attack. Big Ian has certainly been a polarising figure in Irish politics, but I would certainly take no pleasure in the suffering of others - so I extend best wishes to his family.

Agreed. While he was always politically divisive, he stands up for what he believes in and did/does not suffer fools gladly. Here's to a speedy recovery.

Pacifist Pigeon

Ian Paisley will "never, never, never" give up.

But best wishes to his family.

southsiderosie

Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/feb/06/ian-paisley-taken-hospital-heart?newsfeed=true

The former first minister of Northern Ireland, Ian Paisley, has been admitted to hospital.

It is understood the veteran Ulster politician, 85, now known as Lord Bannside, was taken ill on Sunday. Unconfirmed reports claimed he had suffered a heart attack.

Paisley's wife, Lady Paisley, confirmed that her husband was being treated in the Ulster hospital. A statement said: "She requests that the family's privacy be respected at this difficult time."

Paisley stood down last week from his role as a preacher in the Free Presbyterian Church, the hardline Protestant sect he founded in the 1960s. He made his final sermon at the Martyrs Memorial church in east Belfast last weekend.

The founder of the Democratic Unionist party stunned the political world in 2006 when he agreed to share power with nationalists including Sinn Féin after decades resisting such experiments to end the Northern Ireland Troubles.

He struck up an unlikely rapport as first minister with his deputy first minister, Martin McGuinness, the Sinn Féin chief negotiator and former chief of staff of the Provisional IRA.

fryup

i'm surprised he's lived this long tbh

charlemont

A character if there ever was one, So hope the big man will be ok.

irishh_bob

fryup wrote: »

i'm surprised he's lived this long tbh

how come ? , didnt big ian have a direct line to the good lord and was assured good health and fortune

god is on our side was one of his famous ( or infamous ) slogans

BunShopVoyeur

Good news for a change.

woodoo

I can't say i'm too concerned about him. He caused a lot of pain up north.

KeithAFC

Get well soon Ian. Ulster is wishing you well.

darkman2

Wait. He has a heart!?

Border-Rat

KeithAFC wrote: »

Get well said Ian. Ulster is wishing you well.

Is it? Only 2 out of the 9 Counties of Ulster are predominantly Unionist. So no, I don't think it is.

Chuck Stone

briany wrote: »

Agreed. While he was always politically divisive, he stands up for what he believes in and did/does not suffer fools gladly..

So did Osama Bin Laden et al.

dsmythy

Seems when people talk about reconciliation what they mean is everyone but themselves must reconciliate.

seiphil

Thatcher next please

fryup

he's in our lady of lourdes hospital :eek:

(he's doomed now)

Galwayguy35

I dont think he liked too many people this side of the border, especially if you wernt prodestant.

Ellis Dee

I wouldn't put it past him to send for a priest and "turn" before he checks out. "Better one of them dies than a Protestant," I could just imagine him saying.:)

Let the historians judge his lifework, but he did a lot of things right in the last few years, when he got the power-sharing thing up and running. I wish him a good recovery and a few more years of retirement, but if that is not to be, 85 is a good innings it has to be said.:D

Dubhlinner

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I wouldn't put it past him to send for a priest and "turn" before he checks out. "Better one of them dies than a Protestant," I could just imagine him saying.:)

Let the historians judge his lifework, but he did a lot of things right in the last few years, when he got the power-sharing thing up and running. I wish him a good recovery and a few more years of retirement, but if that is not to be, 85 is a good innings it has to be said.:D

Ehhh him and his party opposed power sharing and campaigned against the Good Friday Agreement. Then decided power and money was worth going back on everything they previously said.

I wouldn't describe them as getting power sharing up and running

20Cent

Pity it took him thirty years to realise what every child knows, you should not treat people like second class citizens. If the civil rights movement had been allowed take off without being attacked by Paisleys thugs then the history of NI would have been a lot less bloody.

Sunnyisland

He is 85 years of age, He is in ill health.He stood for what he believed in and I would like to see him recover from this.

Chuck Stone

A hater of Catholics and an inciter of the degenerate loyalist death squads that targeted Catholics for nothing other than they happened to be baptised in that faith.

A man with a phony doctorate and the head of a religious sect he spawned himself. Paisley appealed to the most primal feelings of baseless fear and paranoia among the fools who listened to him. Continuously denouncing the Pope but acting as if he himself were infallible.

In the end he became involved in a peace process that was already a storm born wave about to break on a beach - he just surfed it to the sand to collect the trophy in the sun.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^

ah sure, no one's perfect

walshb

fryup wrote: »

i'm surprised he's lived this long tbh

Having that much hate in your body seems to be useful.

junder

I have never been fan of paisley but I wish him a speedy recovery, regardless of what I thought of him politically, I take no pleasure in the suffering of others

fryup

^^^^^^^^^

i take it your OUP other than DUP ?

Fromthetrees

I have no time for him but he did change his ways the past few years, better late than never eh. I still think he did too much wrong on this island to be wished a speedy recovery, his words and actions alone could have saved the north from a lot of murder and heart break. Let's hope all future Unionist leaders learn from his mistakes and are not loud and vocal bigots.

southsiderosie

fryup, can we give the 'comedic' one-liners a rest? Please familiarize yourself with the charter before posting in this thread again.

SSR

Stheno

I'd a colleague years ago (Catholic btw) from his constituency, who had nothing but praise for the work Ian put into his constituents issues, regardless of their background

I see him as one of the people instrumental in bringing about the Good Friday agreement, like McGuinness etc, neither of whom I admire, but for whom I have a lot of respect for being able to put differences aside and move forward and change the Northern Ireland I knew as a child to what it is now.
I hope at this time that his family are given the privacy they have asked for.

woodoo

Stheno wrote: »

I see him as one of the people instrumental in bringing about the Good Friday agreement, like McGuinness etc, neither of whom I admire, but for whom I have a lot of respect for being able to put differences aside and move forward and change the Northern Ireland I knew as a child to what it is now.

What? He heckled David Trimble every step of the way to that Agreement.

RDM_83 again

There's so many reasons to hate Paisley but he's a truly historic figure he helped lead a large segment of unionism down (IMO) a dark path in the 60's with the 'Ulster Constitution Defence Committee', massively important in the Ulster Workers' strike and the breakdown of Sunningdale and an ever present force in NI politics, the fact that the DUP post peace process was able to become the largest Unionist party says even more.

An amazing speaker as well with an extremely commanding presence.

I say all this though I personally detest nearly everything he stood for and unlike many of the leaders in Sinn Fein and the PUP he never placed his life or liberty at risk instead choosing to incite others (such as the famous protest of him waving his gun licence).

I tried to find a rather stinging critique of him by a leading loyalist (I think either Hutchinson or David Ervine) on this issue of him encouraging young men to throw their lives away however I can't find it

Bullseye1

The man was a bigot who hated members of his community because of their religion. If he hated blacks or homosexuals people would not be as fast to forgive or forget. Thankfully the policitans up there have mellowed and matured and moved on from his spouting hatred.

RDM_83 again

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The man was a bigot who hated members of his community because of their religion. If he hated blacks or homosexuals people would not be as fast to forgive or forget. Thankfully the policitans up there have mellowed and matured and moved on from his spouting hatred.

I guess you never heard of Save Ulster From Sodomy then?

I don't know his opinion Africans/Blacks, I'd be genuinely curious (if KeithAFC could perhaps point me the way) to hear of the reaction to black orange men.

Bullseye1

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I guess you never heard of Save Ulster From Sodomy then?

I don't know his opinion Africans/Blacks, I'd be genuinely curious (if KeithAFC could perhaps point me the way) to hear of the reaction to black orange men.

Oh no doubt he had a go at the homosexuals just as the Pope has so they are not so different.

KeithAFC

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I guess you never heard of Save Ulster From Sodomy then?

I don't know his opinion Africans/Blacks, I'd be genuinely curious (if KeithAFC could perhaps point me the way) to hear of the reaction to black orange men.

I think it is normal. Orange Order has plenty of people who come from a different race.

oppenheimer1

Is the corollary to the phrase "the good always die young" true?... looks like it to me.

RDM_83 again

In relation to my comment Paisley being a man who incited violence from others but did not put himself at risk for his beliefs (I know he was very briefly arrested in the 60's) do you consider that his tacit endorsement of physical force was hypocritical for a man that portrayed himself the defender of the Unionist people.

gurramok

Stheno wrote: »

I see him as one of the people instrumental in bringing about the Good Friday agreement,

Guess you don't remember the attempted "storming of Stormont" then where he led his followers against the signing of the GFA. The worlds media witnessed this at the time and his constituency was the only one that voted against the GFA.

He was dragged kicking and screaming into the peace process as he had no other choice.

junder

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^

i take it your OUP other than DUP ?

If you comment was directed at me, I was pup

walshb

woodoo wrote: »

What? He heckled David Trimble every step of the way to that Agreement.

Spot on, he and Trimble were dragged kicking and screaming into the agreement. They had no option. Never ever wanted to power-share with people they hate, and continue to hate.

KeithAFC

walshb wrote: »

Spot on, he and Trimble were dragged kicking and screaming into the agreement. They had no option. Never ever wanted to powersaher with people they hate, and continue to hate.

Of course they had an option. The power sharing agreement only came about because the Unionist politicians talked about power sharing and not sending out the cry to cause mayhem. It could have been so easy for the DUP or UUP to send out a signal to keep the killing going and the government would never have got off the ground at all.

irishh_bob

Bullseye1 wrote: »

The man was a bigot who hated members of his community because of their religion. If he hated blacks or homosexuals people would not be as fast to forgive or forget. Thankfully the policitans up there have mellowed and matured and moved on from his spouting hatred.

he didnt care very much for blacks or gays either but when he was in his hayday , people from those backrounds were thin on the ground in northern ireland or in the case of gays , not out and proud

Happyman42

It's quite extraordinary to see what he has achieved here, that some posters have bought the myth that he 'helped' the peace process????? :eek:
He reminds me of the type of club or committee official who steps in for the photo at the end, not having done a hands turn to help. Just there for the glory at the end. He was dragged to the table and only relinguished supremacy when he was snookered into it. His 'chuckle brother' phase is absolutely cringeworthy because he hasn't addressed his past in the way that others have.
Ian Paisley will escape this world not having had to answer for his crimminal and divisive behaviour. Please don't aid him in that. Look honestly at his life and his end. Enough of the bull**** invented assessments and no doubt, future obsequious obituaries.

junder

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's quite extraordinary to see what he has achieved here, that some posters have bought the myth that he 'helped' the peace process????? :eek:
He reminds me of the type of club or committee official who steps in for the photo at the end, not having done a hands turn to help. Just there for the glory at the end. He was dragged to the table and only relinguished supremacy when he was snookered into it. His 'chuckle brother' phase is absolutely cringeworthy because he hasn't addressed his past in the way that others have.
Ian Paisley will escape this world not having had to answer for his crimminal and divisive behaviour. Please don't aid him in that. Look honestly at his life and his end. Enough of the bull**** invented assessments and no doubt, future obsequious obituaries.

They same can be said about Gerry Adams and Martin Mcguiness

Happyman42

junder wrote: »

They same can be said about Gerry Adams and Martin Mcguiness

They have addressed their pasts, wether you agreed with what they did or not, they have been at pains to apologise to victims, they are willing to take part in a Truth Commission and they never spouted bigoted sectarian hate. The same cannot be said.

walshb

junder wrote: »

They same can be said about Gerry Adams and Martin Mcguiness

No, it cannot. Both men always tried to share, to speak, to interact. Paisley and the orange men hated the sight of Irish nationalists. Deep rooted hate for the people. Pure bigotry. Paisley and his ilk would still be burning nationalist out of their homes if they could get away with it. Make no mistake about it.

SEEMagazine

I was on tour in Norn Iron last August, and while I am well aware of the history involved I found the Nationalist element in Derry to be very begrudging, and it was no surprise that there was rioting with the Apprentice Boys shindig a few days after.

While in Belfast I met a former employee of Grizzly, and he was under no illusion as to the way forward. They accepted that things were done that they were not proud of, and that yes, it was a war between both groups. But that that was all in the past, and it was time to grow up, move on, and forge a new, peaceful community.

I also have a good friend, formerly of the UUP in Belfast, who fully understands that it needs to the Unionist community that will have to take the next big step. The Sinn Fein approach has hit a wall; to attempt and force Irish unity without consensus will lead to a repeat of the troubles only in reverse.

From what I have been told, and witnessed, Ian Paisley Snr had calmed and mellowed immensely while focused on local politics.

His son was in the Balkans recently, exploring how other 'messed up' regions coped with getting past it all.

It's my considered opinion that while we really want moderates to be conducting negotiations between the Green and Orange, we NEED extremists (or former extremists) involved too, so that both communities can say that their views have been adequately represented.

</2cents>

Fr Tod Umptious

Never much of a fan for his very hard-line unionist views that he expressed with vigour when I was growing up in the 80s

However I have heard anecdotally that he was very popular in his Westminster constituency with all peoples regardless of background.

Apparently if you had a problem that you needed help with then he was the man to go to and would work as hard to help his Catholic constituents as he would the Protestant one.
Does anyone who is from the area know if that is true ?

Also he made his first (non news clip) appearance on RTE back in 1987 on a show called Saturday Live (guest hosted by his daughter) and he came across as a very normal, and quiet funny individual, not this 'crazy man' we were used of seeing on the TV.
That show is actually available on the RTE Player in the TV 50 section (http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=1125703)

KeithAFC

walshb wrote: »

No, it cannot. Both men always tried to share, to speak, to interact. Paisley and the orange men hated the sight of Irish nationalists. Deep rooted hate for the people. Pure bigotry. Paisley and his ilk would still be burning nationalist out of their homes if they could get away with it. Make no mistake about it.

Yeah and the PIRA would still be blowing people to pieces if they thought it could get a United Ireland. Lets stick to reality here. Northern Ireland has had a long conflict, long before 1969. It is over.

KeithAFC

Happyman42 wrote: »

They have addressed their pasts, wether you agreed with what they did or not, they have been at pains to apologise to victims, they are willing to take part in a Truth Commission and they never spouted bigoted sectarian hate. The same cannot be said.

Except both men joined and ran units in the PIRA which slaughtered and bombed people to pieces. Face up to it, both sides done nasty things. It was a conflict.

Happyman42

KeithAFC wrote: »

Except both men joined and ran units in the PIRA which slaughtered and bombed people to pieces. Face up to it, both sides done nasty things. It was a conflict.

What the other side did doesn't legitimaise or sanitise what this man did. The others have addressed their pasts, in words and in deeds.
Ian Paisley leaves this world without doing that. He has legitimised sectarianism and bigotry around the world and it still goes on. His life was and is a sham because of that. That is his legacy.