Getting thrown out of a certain pub

catinhat77

I was out last night in a local very popular late bar on Denmark St, and saw a group of men getting thrown out for snapping pics of the barmaids on their phones. Far as I'm concerned well done to management, they must watch their girls like hawks there were strait in there. But what does boards think-overkill or fair enough?

playmasterone

very good caues without the girls permission the lads are breaking the law

MarkR

Did ye "both" register to have a chat here?

If I was in AH, i'd say pics or...

I've never seen anyone trying to snap pictures of barmaids. Maybe in hooters once. And that's nearly expected.

catinhat77

Just noticed that myself, I'm not talking to myself pal-roommate is always on it, said I may as well join up. Was just curious what everyone esle thought, the (mixed) group I was with were split. The other lads thought it was harmless and it was the usual bouncer on a powertrip but they were dead right in my book, I was the only fella thinking it though.

gaf1983

Yeah it's common courtesy to ask someone to be in a photo before taking it, so if the guys were made to leave because they didn't do this then fair enough.

savagecabbages

In places I've worked, its usually the girl complains that sleazy guys are perving on her so they get watched, and if something happens after that they're out...

thats not gone well

but does the whole "right to photograph anything in a public place" not matter here? (not sure of the definition of the inside of a pub/club public vs. private)

either way i'm sure it's not the first or the last time something like that has happened, so the bouncers just take a no tolerance line

zuroph

inside the pub isn't a public place, Its hassling staff.

The Snipe

thats not gone well wrote: »

but does the whole "right to photograph anything in a public place" not matter here? (not sure of the definition of the inside of a pub/club public vs. private)

either way i'm sure it's not the first or the last time something like that has happened, so the bouncers just take a no tolerance line

Technically its illegal, without permission from the person, especially if indoors, if its outside, fair game unless you are invading someones privacy ie. Shooting in someone's window.

Also, there is the thing of management reserve the right of entry. Only thing is, they can't confiscate or delete the photos.

hightower1

Why bother really? I mean if you want pics of their barmaids there is a whole ruddy facebook page they officially dedicated to this!

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.311942268822502.94976.218936501456413&type=3

Military brunette is a fav!

......

Icky Thump

zuroph wrote: »

inside the pub isn't a public place, Its hassling staff.

really???

inside a Pub(lic house) isnt a public place??? i thought it falls under a public place according to law???

by the way taking photos of people is not against the law unless the photees are children. it is public domain.

that being said if these guys where just being creepy with their camera phones then fair enough id chuck them out. but to be honest bouncers would get more respect if they showed people the same courtesy. they should have told the lads to stop what they are doing or else they will be thrown out. throwing out first asking questions later does speak of the heavey handedness that isnt needed in bars and clubs.

if its the "bar only bigger" place that i think you are reffering to then i personally dont like their tactics so i wont be going back there. ive been to alot of places in the world and ive never come accross such rude doormen

The Snipe

by the way taking photos of people is not against the law unless the photees are children. it is public domain.

no it'd be considered private property where its up to management to decide.

It's only public domain if: you are shooting on a public street, park etc. And anything you take can't be in severe breach of privacy, ie. Shooting in someones window from a tree, or plagerisim.

Photographing children is also okay, as if its in a public place. Private property, the owner decides.

source

zuroph wrote: »

inside the pub isn't a public place, Its hassling staff.

It is, here's the legal definition:

A public place is anyplace the public have access, whether by right or by permission, and whether subject to or free of charge.

Technically a person can snap away without permission in a public place, but having said that management does reserve the right to refuse admission, ie they take away the permission to be there, it then becomes a private place and the person can be asked to stop taking pictures and leave the premises.

Icky Thump

XiledSniper wrote: »

no it'd be considered private property where its up to management to decide.

It's only public domain if: you are shooting on a public street, park etc. And anything you take can't be in severe breach of privacy, ie. Shooting in someones window from a tree, or plagerisim.

Photographing children is also okay, as if its in a public place. Private property, the owner decides.

when i was saying that i was thinking what Source alludes to below

i thought the pics of kids was dodgey teritory. something i wouldnt be going out of my way to do in any case:D

source wrote: »

It is, here's the legal definition:

A public place is anyplace the public have access, whether by right or by permission, and whether subject to or free of charge.

Technically a person can snap away without permission in a public place, but having said that management does reserve the right to refuse admission, ie they take away the permission to be there, it then becomes a private place and the person can be asked to stop taking pictures and leave the premises.

the biggest problem these days is that management doesnt actually have the right to refuse admission unless there are extenuating circumstances i:e they are drunk,misbehaving,unrully etc

roast

Either way... that's pretty creepy. If I were management, I would have kicked them out also.

TONY DAY

Don't think its right that lads are taking photos of the Barmaids but i can't stand bouncers on a power trip. The old Knight in Shining Armour bull****. Was the pub directly across the road from Nancy Blakes or just up the road.
Also did the bouncers use excessive force?

Itsdacraic

Anyone want to buy some pictures of barmaids?

source

Itsdacraic wrote: »

Anyone want to buy some pictures of barmaids?

Nah, apparently you can get them on facebook for free!!

constantg

playmasterone wrote: »

very good caues without the girls permission the lads are breaking the law

It's actually not.....ever wonder how photojournalists don't get arrested. perfectly legal to take someone's photograph even if they refuse...

TONY DAY

Thats a good point actually!! Journalists are allowed take photos in public so is it different for members of the public.
The Bouncers if its in the pub (you know the one with live bands and a Nightclub downstairs) are only too keen to throw their weight about. Wouldn't neccesarily agree that these thugs had the best interest of the barmaids in mind when they threw the lads out.
More an oppurtunity to show off to the bar maids. Oh look at me i'm a hard man

catinhat77

No actually, it's the bar with the older crowd in the front and the younger ones in the back on Denmark St, you know the one. Never seen the bouncers there throw their weight around-but I do know where some people are thinking of and yeah if it was them Id be saying it was more powertrip sh1te.

TONY DAY

If its the pub whose First letter begins with a F i would be surprised (1) The lads on the door seem pleasent enough and (2) There aren't any hot barmaids behind the counter there.
Haven't been there since the 1st week of January so unless they've got some new birds in behind the bar!!!

zuroph

all would have been avoided if the creeps hadnt been hassling the bar staff.

constantg

catinhat77 wrote: »

No actually, it's the bar with the older crowd in the front and the younger ones in the back on Denmark St, you know the one. Never seen the bouncers there throw their weight around-but I do know where some people are thinking of and yeah if it was them Id be saying it was more powertrip sh1te.

If its the bar beginning with N on Denmark Street, then there might be a smaller, older bouncer in there who wears a baseball cap..

I've always found him to be very ignorant and quite intimidating during the night and especially at closing time. Does anyone know can a bouncer physically push you/remove you from the premises? Or does that constitute assault?

Roadend

Amateurs, they should have pretended to take a pic of a mate while zooming on to the bar maid behind ........

source

constantg wrote: »

If its the bar beginning with N on Denmark Street, then there might be a smaller, older bouncer in there who wears a baseball cap..

I've always found him to be very ignorant and quite intimidating during the night and especially at closing time. Does anyone know can a bouncer physically push you/remove you from the premises? Or does that constitute assault?

Bouncers are security, and deal with use of force, If someone gets aggressive they are permitted to use reasonable force to remove the person from the premises. So pushing/physically removing you from the premises is allowed once the force used is proportional. ie they can't smack you one (unless to defend themselves), but can restrain you.

Icky Thump

source wrote: »

Bouncers are security, and deal with use of force, If someone gets aggressive they are permitted to use reasonable force to remove the person from the premises. So pushing/physically removing you from the premises is allowed once the force used is proportional. ie they can't smack you one (unless to defend themselves), but can restrain you.

but they must have a security badge/id

the pub with the letter N dont need to because most of their "door staff" are counted as barmen. same can be said for my fav place that begins with a C up by taits clock:D

im loving the code

TONY DAY

Bouncers still can't "smack you one"!!! This is classed as assault.
The amount of times i have some poor young fella who is just pissed and falling around the place without actually being threatening to anyone being roughly grabbed and thrown out of a particular pub/Night club in Denmark street is shocking.
And yes i agree that these lads who just get stupid drunk should be asked to leave. But why the need to man handle them in such a rough manner.
I can safely say that the majority of Bouncers in Limerick are violent men!! Of course there are exceptions.
There is a well known security man in Nancys. Big Tall fella who seems to have been there for years who i have seen remove people from the premises without atually roughing him up.
Funny how the bouncers always go for the Studently looking types as well and not actually lads who look like they will put up a good fight.
And no i am not a student i am 33 years of age.

pappyodaniel

I was on a Ryanair flight to Barcelona years ago. Before take off and during the safety demonstration, the guy sitting in front of me started to record the air hostess. She noticed what he was doing and put a halt to proceedings, demanding his camera and deleting what he had just recorded. She gave him back his camera after she had finished her demonstration but only after a right grilling. I was seriously mortified for him as the 'incident' had the attention of the entire plane but didn't feel sorry for him...kinda pervy if you ask me.

savagecabbages

TONY DAY wrote: »

Bouncers still can't "smack you one"!!! This is classed as assault.
The amount of times i have some poor young fella who is just pissed and falling around the place without actually being threatening to anyone being roughly grabbed and thrown out of a particular pub/Night club in Denmark street is shocking.
And yes i agree that these lads who just get stupid drunk should be asked to leave. But why the need to man handle them in such a rough manner.
I can safely say that the majority of Bouncers in Limerick are violent men!! Of course there are exceptions...

And neither can a customer 'smack' a member of staff one, so it works both ways. Just consider someone raising a glass or bottle threatening to hit you with it. You dont take the chance and wait untill he/she swings at you with it and leaves you blind in one eye. When people see a young studenty type being removed from a place and make a snap judgement, they only see a small part of what was happening -the 10 seconds it takes to put someone out. The barstaff may have been dealing with said customer for 5 mins before security arrive, or the security themselves may have dealt with the customer 3 or 4 times previously.

Not to mention the 8/10 other times that security may calmly walk someone out of the pub and nobody notices anything.
I'm not having a go at heavy handedness or power tripping, but just asking people not to jump to conclusions when they get a glimpse of the end of a situation that might have been going on for several minutes...

the_blackstuff

constantg wrote: »

catinhat77 wrote: »

No actually, it's the bar with the older crowd in the front and the younger ones in the back on Denmark St, you know the one. Never seen the bouncers there throw their weight around-but I do know where some people are thinking of and yeah if it was them Id be saying it was more powertrip sh1te.

If its the bar beginning with N on Denmark Street, then there might be a smaller, older bouncer in there who wears a baseball ?

That would add up! Only bouncer in limerick i ever had any issues with! Only bouncer anywhere in fact.

You really shouldn't be taking pictures of people in bars like that to be honest. I've seen a few foreign nationals removed from clubs in limerick for taking videos of girls on the dance floor .its not on.

The Snipe

constantg wrote: »

It's actually not.....ever wonder how photojournalists don't get arrested. perfectly legal to take someone's photograph even if they refuse...

Once again, it'd be in a public place, its not perving (People would consider what they were doing harrassment to the most part) and most the time they are concenting.


From experience they can take it if they refuse, only in a public space.

TONY DAY

savagecabbages wrote: »

And neither can a customer 'smack' a member of staff one, so it works both ways. Just consider someone raising a glass or bottle threatening to hit you with it. You dont take the chance and wait untill he/she swings at you with it and leaves you blind in one eye. When people see a young studenty type being removed from a place and make a snap judgement, they only see a small part of what was happening -the 10 seconds it takes to put someone out. The barstaff may have been dealing with said customer for 5 mins before security arrive, or the security themselves may have dealt with the customer 3 or 4 times previously.

Yes of course a customer can't hit a bouncer either. I've seen plenty of people taken away by the Gardai for that but i've yet to see a Bouncer taken away for it.

Look Bouncers are there to maintain order. They have no right to assault customers. If they do then they should be treated in the same manner as the clown who started the fight in the first place!!

And i have seen with my own eyes in numerous night clubs in Limerick down through the years Bouncers rushing across the dance floor and kicking lads (literally) out the door just for making a nuisance of themselves.

I said it already the majority of Bouncers i've seen on the doors of Pubs and Night clubs are Men with Violent temperments. I often wonder do they have friends in the Gardai with they way they carry on with their heavy handed approach. They know they will get away it!!

savagecabbages

They are subject to the same laws as the rest of us. Violence should not be tolerated. I'm sure if someone feels hard done by, they prosecute whoever it is for assault. Pubs an clubs are crawling with cctv everything is recorded!

However its unfair to make rash judgements based on seeing a very small part of the picture...

Liam Byrne

Icky Thump wrote: »

zuroph wrote: »

inside the pub isn't a public place, Its hassling staff.

really???

inside a Pub(lic house) isnt a public place??? i thought it falls under a public place according to law???

Well there's an offence for being "drunk in a public place", and given the state of most patrons in pubs & clubs, I'd guess that that definition doesn't apply?

TONY DAY

Savagecabbages sorry i'm not buying it. Look i think the Bouncers have a tough job and its certainly a job i wouldn't dream of doing myself.

But i'm only repeating what i've seen. Too many times i've seen unnecessary force being used by Bouncers.

I myself have reported Bouncers to the Gardai after witnessing assualts and of course the Gardai just say "we'll folow up on it"!!!

source

TONY DAY wrote: »

Savagecabbages sorry i'm not buying it. Look i think the Bouncers have a tough job and its certainly a job i wouldn't dream of doing myself.

But i'm only repeating what i've seen. Too many times i've seen unnecessary force being used by Bouncers.

I myself have reported Bouncers to the Gardai after witnessing assualts and of course the Gardai just say "we'll folow up on it"!!!

Tony the problem with you reporting an assault you've witnesses, is without an injured party Gardai cannot proceed with an assault case. So while you report it, unless the person assaulted reports it then there's nothing that can be done. The reason for this is assault isn't as black and white as people think.

There's varying levels of assault, and the most common form of assault, section 2, doesnt have a power of arrest. Say I was to punch you, no damage, just a bruise. A Garda cannot arrest me, he can take my details and invite me to make a cautioned statement to give my side of what happened. Then he summonses me to court if he believed what you've said over what I've said. If not, case is dropped and it goes no further.

If Gardai track down injured party, and he doesnt want to make a complaint the whole thing is dropped, the witness which is what you are, will not be informed of this.

It's easy to blame the Gardai for doing nothing when you don't know what the Gardai can and cannot do.

TONY DAY

Good points Source. I'm not on a crusade against Bouncers the last thing i want to be doing on a night out is heading up to Henry St to report Bouncers!!!

I think the Law regarding exactly what Bouncers can and can't do is very vague. It should be made more clear to the public. Maybe even go so far as have a sign up in Bars stating what force they are allowed use.

If this results in an overly aggressive Bouncer losing his job well then good!!

xsiborg

TONY DAY wrote: »

Good points Source. I'm not on a crusade against Bouncers the last thing i want to be doing on a night out is heading up to Henry St to report Bouncers!!!

I think the Law regarding exactly what Bouncers can and can't do is very vague. It should be made more clear to the public. Maybe even go so far as have a sign up in Bars stating what force they are allowed use.

If this results in an overly aggressive Bouncer losing his job well then good!!

this thread seems to have veered waaaay off topic from the original question in the OP.

the bar staff are also there to do a job, they obviously felt harassed and intimidated by a couple of douchebags whose behaviour was clearly unwelcome.

the security staff are there to protect the interests of not just the patrons but also the staff, and to deter any unwelcome or unsavoury behaviour.

i think they were correct on this occasion to eject these patrons on the grounds that their behaviour was intimidating staff. its that simple.

TONY DAY

Here is an extract from an Interesting article i found re What Doorstaff can and can't do legally
"There is a popular misconception that bouncers have (or reserve) the right to use physical force freely. However, in many countries bouncers have no legal authority to use physical force more freely than any other civilian—meaning they are restricted to reasonable levels of force used in self defense, to eject drunk or aggressive patrons refusing to leave a venue, or when restraining a patron who has committed an offence until police arrive.[32][36] Lawsuits are possible if injuries occur, even if the patron was drunk or using aggressive language.[32]

Insect Overlord

Mod note: Tony, lay off the crusade and stay on topic, please.

TONY DAY

Pont taken Insect Overlord.
Just wanted to make a few points. As regards the article yes i do believe that the people taking the photos of the barmaids should have been asked to leave. The girls are employed to serve customers only and people taking photos of them is invading their privacy.

Tomk1

Maybe the staff should of took pics of the lads taking pics of the barstaff, or get pics from cctv, and put them on the windows or behind the bar, untill the lads apologise. Maybe not facebook as that's publishing the photos.

um7y1h83ge06nx

constantg wrote: »

If its the bar beginning with N on Denmark Street, then there might be a smaller, older bouncer in there who wears a baseball cap..

I've always found him to be very ignorant and quite intimidating during the night and especially at closing time. Does anyone know can a bouncer physically push you/remove you from the premises? Or does that constitute assault?

That guy certainly wouldn't be my favourite bouncer in Limerick, for an older guy he seems to have quite a chip on his shoulder or something.

Had a slight run-in with him one night. There was a small group of us in the front bar when he comes barrelling through removing a lad from the premises. The guy wasn't resisting but anyway the bouncer knocks into us, spilling some of our drinks etc. I just shouldered/shoved them back to get them out of our way. A few minutes later he comes back, giving out hell to me. I just told him to chill out and stop acting like a thug. Surprisingly he backed down and nothing was done.

Just realised I was quoting you constantg! You weren't there that night btw.

TONY DAY

Ah the small man complex!! Enough said!!

RINO87

savagecabbages wrote: »

And neither can a customer 'smack' a member of staff one, so it works both ways. Just consider someone raising a glass or bottle threatening to hit you with it. You dont take the chance and wait untill he/she swings at you with it and leaves you blind in one eye. When people see a young studenty type being removed from a place and make a snap judgement, they only see a small part of what was happening -the 10 seconds it takes to put someone out. The barstaff may have been dealing with said customer for 5 mins before security arrive, or the security themselves may have dealt with the customer 3 or 4 times previously.

Not to mention the 8/10 other times that security may calmly walk someone out of the pub and nobody notices anything.
I'm not having a go at heavy handedness or power tripping, but just asking people not to jump to conclusions when they get a glimpse of the end of a situation that might have been going on for several minutes...

gotta agree with whats being said here. Having worked in bars for the last good few years, albeit not in limnerick for a while, I can only say that the amount of abuse bar staff get is staggering, and its been on a steep rise upwards for the last while. Being "drunk" does not give you the right to get away with anything, bouncers and bar staff have a tough enough job as it is, without being further criticised when people dont know the whole story. Yes, bouncers might be seen as heavy handed when they come bounding in, but as was stated before, they may have been notified of someones behaviour beforehand and just decided enough is enough.

If someone is purchasing soem tea bags, loo roll and buscuits in dunnes and decides to abuse the checkout operator would they not also be removed??

TONY DAY

Yes but they don't run the risk of being aggressively pushed out of the shop or even kicked or punched. Thats the whole point surely!

zuroph

Nobody got kicked or punched. FFS, some creeps hassled bar staff and were made leave, that's all you know.

zuroph

TONY DAY wrote: »

Here is an extract from an Interesting article i found re What Doorstaff can and can't do legally
"There is a popular misconception that bouncers have (or reserve) the right to use physical force freely. However, in many countries bouncers have no legal authority to use physical force more freely than any other civilian—meaning they are restricted to reasonable levels of force used in self defense, to eject drunk or aggressive patrons refusing to leave a venue, or when restraining a patron who has committed an offence until police arrive.[32][36] Lawsuits are possible if injuries occur, even if the patron was drunk or using aggressive language.[32]

This is a nonsense piece as it covers all bases, its not even relevent to Irish law. For example, "meaning they are restricted to reasonable levels of force used in self defense, to eject drunk or aggressive patrons refusing to leave a venue," means they can use reasonable levels of force to remove someone at closing, if they're refusing. Of course lawsuits are possible, it doesnt say whether they'd win or not, you dont need to be guilty of anything for someone to chance their arm at a lawsuit...

SupraSonic_26

Im a bouncer on denmark street not in any of the bars youve mentioned but if bar staff feel they are being hasseled we can eject those persons. I do agree some bouncers in certian places mentioned i know one or two who are heavey handed and its stupid.I myself would only ever do that if its a threat to myself as defending myself and other people around me if that person is very aggressive otherwise if there not i dont touch them i ask them to leave nicely and follow behind them. I find reasoning with the perosn before hand is alot better then all guns blazing and trying to rip them out the door its not right. those people who took those pics are sleezy shouldnt be allowed, bar staff have rights too.

constantg

friend of the missus when they were in NUIM got ejected from a pub/club in the town one night.

bouncer was a bit heavy handed and threw a few digs to 'let the student c*nt know who was boss.'

so the student c*nt went home, grabbed a brick, went round a broke one or two of the bouncer's windows. Now while I don't agree with him in this instance, you do have to admit that you tend to reap what you sow.



The pub beginning with N and ending in Y on Denmark Street tend to clear the place very early.....like IMMEDIATELY after the music stops, within seconds the small-angry bouncer there started screaming at both myself and Super Sonic and two of our friends who were just finishing off our pints.

And I mean screaming right into our faces and pushing us out the door of the bar out the back, into the courtyard......