Changes for French game?

Fishooks12

Ok so that was totally abject and despite some dodgy calls from Barnes and Pearson we deserved to lose

It's hard to grasp how frustrating it must be for those players, giving it their all yet limited to Kindeys prehistoric style

Will making changes in personal even change anything for next week if we operate the same game plan?

It screams of bad tactics when Trimble, Sexton, Murray, Heaslip, Healy, Best, Kearney all have good individual performances and we still look totally at sea during the game

You couldn't even say that any player on the Irish team had a stinker

razorblunt

In before the ROG vs Sexton debate!

Change of centers, Ryan in for DOC nothing else.

Fishooks12

razorblunt wrote: »

In before the ROG vs Sexton debate!

Change of centers, Ryan in for DOC nothing else.

I thought DOC was actually very good today, got through serious amount of work. Although I'd like to see Ryan get a start too

Something has to be done at 12 and 13 anyway

tolosenc

Ryan for DOC. Maybe Bowe to 13 with D. Kearney onto the wing.

Fishooks12

tolosenc wrote: »

Ryan for DOC. Maybe Bowe to 13 with D. Kearney onto the wing.

Couldn't help but think Bowe could still do a job for us at 13 when he was heavily involved in midfield for the 1st try

Otacon

Ireland 22-Man Team vs. France

1. C. Healy
2. R. Best
3. M. Ross
4. D. Ryan
5. P. O'Connell
6. S. Ferris
7. S. O'Brien
8. J. Heaslip
9. C. Murray
10. J. Sexton
11. K. Earls
12. G. D'Arcy
13. T. Bowe
14. A. Trimble
15. R. Kearney

16. S. Cronin
17. T. Court
18. D. O'Callaghan
19. P. O'Mahony
20. E. Reddan
21. R. O'Gara
22. F. McFadden

Amazotheamazing

drop Heaslip, Murray or Sexton, d'Arcy and McFadden. Heaslip in particular, can only live in his rep for so long.

Fishooks12

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

drop Heaslip, Murray or Sexton, d'Arcy and McFadden. Heaslip in particular, can only live in his rep for so long.

Heaslip had a decent game today, our only real threat on the deck and carried very well

Murray was very good too and apart from a few aimless kicks from hand so was sexton

You can nearly see the frustration in Sextons face when asked about the style Ireland employ as opposed to Leinsters on BBC before the game

Burgo

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

drop Heaslip, Murray or Sexton, d'Arcy and McFadden. Heaslip in particular, can only live in his rep for so long.

:rolleyes: why not just have munster play against france?

djjdomahony

Mcfadden should be playing at 12 now.... i think his defense today was brilliant with just one missed tackle on North and that was Darcys to make.

We just dont have a 13 at the moment...

Bowe- dosent have the handling skills
Earls- weak defensively and same as above
Malley- my choice 13 but supposedly isnt a great defender...havent seen him enough to comment
Downey- put him in 12 and have mcfadden 13....I dont think its really an option
Griffen- Needs more time to see if he is up to it

Conclusion- with BOD gone i think the midfield is in serious trouble for a while,,,we just dont have big enough men for it
also--kidney should not be coach, i would love schimdt to get the job in the future

doomed

Not too many changes because the alternatives are pretty scarce.

Ryan for DOC.

Reddan for Murray. There is not much between them but so if you have a 9 and 10 who are used to playing together then it makes sense to use them.

Would like to see Downey given a chance but it won't happen until he is back playing in Ireland.

If we lose against France then use the last 3 games for experimentation especially at centre.

Teferi

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

drop Heaslip, Murray or Sexton, d'Arcy and McFadden. Heaslip in particular, can only live in his rep for so long.

If even the Captain can see that Heaslip had a good game today then you know there is something wrong with your post. He played well today. Calls of dropping him are ludicrous.

mr socco

Kidney will pick the same team to redeem themselves - as he did today. If we get reamed by France, he will again pick the same team to redeem themselves. End result will be we'll hammer the useless English and finish mid table and Kidney will keep his job. Depressing.

mr socco

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

drop Heaslip, Murray or Sexton, d'Arcy and McFadden. Heaslip in particular, can only live in his rep for so long.

Heaslip played very well today. Very odd comment.

flyswatter

Anyone think Trimble might be more effective in the centre?

finlma

Sorry to say it but Darcy is a spent force and should be discarded. He's given great service to the jersey but he flapped at North today and hasn't had a stand out performance for a long time. I think Downey deserves a run at 12. He's direct and strong. Wales have shown the useefullness of direct hard-running backs today - they destroyed us and should have won by more than 10 points. No point blaming Barnes.

Fishooks12

finlma wrote: »

Sorry to say it but Darcy is a spent force and should be discarded. He's given great service to the jersey but he flapped at North today and hasn't had a stand out performance for a long time. I think Downey deserves a run at 12. He's direct and strong. Wales have shown the useefullness of direct hard-running backs today - they destroyed us and should have won by more than 10 points. No point blaming Barnes.

He's not in either squad and isn't near international standard. Not to mention he's not exactly a young talent either

Quint2010

No one had mentioned Fitzgerald-did I hear a whisper during the week he may be fit? I would move McFadden to 12 and put Fitzgerald to 13. Probably bring in Ryan for DOC.

MungBean

What I'd go with.

1. C. Healy
2. R. Best
3. M. Ross
4. D. Ryan
5. P. O'Connell
6. S. Ferris
7. S. O'Brien
8. J. Heaslip
9. E. Reddan
10. J. Sexton
11. A. Trimble
12. G. D'Arcy
13. E. O'Malley
14. T. Bowe
15. R. Kearney

16. S. Cronin
17. T. Court
18. D. O'Callghan
19. P. O'Mahony
20. C. Murray
21. R. O'Gara
22. K. Earls

Reddan for Murray would enable us to utilise quick ball. Pointless to have forwards working hard on the ground if the ball isnt recycled fast enough to use it. Fast ball and attacking a scrambling defence is what gets you across the gain line, not a game of red rover. Cant be done with slow ball or if a SH in on the bottom of a ruck. I'd have Murray on the bench over Boss because he's probably the future and he'll need experience. He's a good player and will more than likely be great in future but he needs to quicken up and be a great SH not just an extra defender.

Ryan for DOC because Ryan is the form player simple as that. I dont know why DOC was started ahead of him today.

O'Malley for McFadden because McFadden isnt good enough to be starting at 13, since we have no international 13 you go to the next best thing. The best 13 available and that to me is O'Malley. Earls on the bench as a utility back.

If Fitz is fit then I'd start him at 12 at the expense of Darcy.

I'd also agree that if we lose next week we do what England did and send out the A team for some experimentation.

Tigerandahalf

Well he is with Munster next year. The IRFU must see him as having a role with Ire in the future. Otherwise I doubt if Munster would have got the go ahead. He is limited and not a speedster but he has qualities that we are badly lacking. Darcy has been a good servant but I think he has been v patchy over the last 2/3 years. He gets by with a good performance against the Scots or the lesser teams and then is kept on for another couple of games. I always thought he was a more natural 13 anyway. Nothing against him but it is time for change, either Downey or McFadden going to 12. Maybe don't change the next day but definitely for the Scot Italy games at home. Give the new players a chance.

boynesider

If Fitzgerald is fit he has to play. I would like to see him on the wing with Tommy Bowe coming into the centre. The only other change I would like to see would be Donncha Ryan to start with Dan Tuohy on the bench to add some real impact. (DOC doen't cut it at this level anymore).

Murray was good excluding a couple of mistakes and I would keep him but I have a feeling Kidney will go with Reddan.

MungBean

flyswatter wrote: »

Anyone think Trimble might be more effective in the centre?

I think he'd be effective wherever he's utilised. Today he got no ball so there was nothing he could do. Ireland spent the match kicking away possession or working it through the centre. Any time it made it to the wing it was so slow the Welsh had drifted to cover and it had to come back in (majority of the time before it even got to Trimble). He spent the match in rucks securing ball.

Utopia Parkway

Struggling to see what changes could be made that would make a material difference.

Ryan for DOC maybe.

Reddan for Murray although I didn't think Murray was too bad apart from one or two poor kicks.

Earls would have been absolutely marmalised had he played 13 today.

We just don't have a natural openside.

Drop D'Arcy but for who? Paddy Wallace? Pointless.

Fishooks12

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Drop D'Arcy but for who? Paddy Wallace? Pointless.

Paddy would have been better than Darcy today.

marco_polo

Don't see the point in introducing any new players if they are just going to suffer from the same completely over the top criticism that Murray has had to face in what was his first Six nations start.

Conas

Hook talks out of his arse sometimes, and his dislike of Heaslip is very obvious to everyone. Heaslip was our best player today I thought. He carried brilliantly, was excellent at the breakdown, and in the lineout. The idea of dropping him is crazy stuff. The idea of playing him at 7 is a good one, because it could work. I think the whole thing about the Openside is getting blown completely out of proportion. I mean Warburton is good, but he's not spectacular, and I dont really see how he's so special. He was very quiet today, and if he doesn't turnover the ball, he's limited. He seldom carries. O'Brien out played him when Leinster played Cardiff a few weeks back. But everyone picks flaws when things go wrong.

sting60

Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney.Should never have got the job he is shocking.

MungBean

marco_polo wrote: »

Don't see the point in introducing any new players if they are just going to suffer from the same completely over the top criticism that Murray has had to face in what was his first Six nations start.

Its not over the top to question the ability of an international teams first choice 9. Easy to say "its his first six nations give him a break" but its not his first start and he is not exactly new blood. He was our first choice 9 in the world cup and he continues to be chosen in the starting line up. How long are people gonna try cover his flaws with this "he's only a kid" routine ?

Amazotheamazing

Our entire backrow was owned today, Heaslip's a senior player, I expect more from him than the others. Some people want him to be captain ffs.

For those who think he was fine, what changes would ye make to the backrow, because as is it's been worked out.

roycon

have yet to see conor murray play a good game at any level at any stage in his career. two consecutive matches for ireland where hes been the worst player on the field. I dont care how young he is. he should be dropped.paul marshall or reddan should be there for me the irish centres are so poor in attack and defense. mcsharry,madigan,downey, omalley,cave,earls,danny barnes,keatley, spence or anyone else would do a better job than that.

Tigerandahalf

In fairness Murray is getting zero presentation or protection from his pack. When he was blocked down today DOC had his back turned instead of blocking the attacker from blocking down Murray's kick. We are being hammered at the breakdown and once our ball is slow our backs aren't big enough to get over the gainline.

boynesider

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Our entire backrow was owned today, Heaslip's a senior player, I expect more from him than the others. Some people want him to be captain ffs.

For those who think he was fine, what changes would ye make to the backrow, because as is it's been worked out.

Absolute rubbish. It was clear watching the game that Heaslip and O'Brien were two of our best players and I have just checked the stats which confirm this. O'Brien made an excellent 13 carries and 18 tackles and Heaslip wasn't far behind him. Fantastic effort by both of them and if you watch that game again and somehow come up with the idea that our problems lay in the backrow then you want your head examined.

Personally I am a huge fan of POM but I still couldn't justify dropping any of our back-rowers (although if pushed it would have to be Ferris on todays performance).

Tigerandahalf

Ferris to 2nd row.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Our entire backrow was owned today, Heaslip's a senior player, I expect more from him than the others. Some people want him to be captain ffs.

For those who think he was fine, what changes would ye make to the backrow, because as is it's been worked out.

Heaslip was the pick of the backrow. I'd like to see POM included in the 7 jersey ahead of SOB but, I think it would be a huge ask for him to make his debut against the French.

Our backrow is a good unit of brilliant individuals and I think that Wales might just have become our bogey team - Our coaches just can't find a way to outmaneuver theirs.

If we find a bit of penetration in the centre (Earls), I think you'll find that they'll significantly up their games. They are essentially being used/wasted in midfield as, we have no running threat there so, they are needed to hold the Welsh defense. As a result, we are getting murdered at the breakdown. Its one of the reasons why Murray is so important.

Sindri

I'd love to see Fitz in the centre and move McFadden to 12.

Ryan deserves a start but I can't fault DOC.

Thought Trimble was good today, he didn't have anything to do but what he did do he did well. If Bowe was to move to the centre then I'd have Fitz and Trimble on the wings.

Heaslip was good, don't know where the criticism is coming from.

Murray was decent as well, but I would prefer Reddan for snappier passing.

The problem is not who we play, except at 13, it's how we play (or how Kidneys dictates we lose).

Cpt_Blackbeard

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Ferris to 2nd row.

No

thomond2006

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Ferris to 2nd row.

With his knees that will never happen.

Making changes for changes sake will solve nothing, it's the gameplan that is the problem.

Clegg

Are people actually slating Heaslips performance? I thought he was our best player today. He carried well and did the dirty work on the floor too. He was better than Ferris and SOB, both of whom had quiet games.

Teferi

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Heaslip was the pick of the backrow.

Quoting this so you can't change it

Tigerandahalf

I keep hearing this thing about his knees. If they guy can play through so much physical rugby taking huge tackles, I don't see why he couldn't be tried there. He has just played through his longest period without injury. Yes some people say that there is more impact on your knee, but I would say your ankles are more at risk. We would add a lot to our scrum, his power behind the front row would add a lot. He would complement POC as well. All the top teams have a balance in their 2nd row....Botha/Matfield, Thorn/Williams, Nallet/Pape etc. You need that power as well as the ability in the lineout.

Clegg

Teferi wrote: »

Quoting this so you can't change it

He's right though. Heaslip was Ireland's best backrower.

I thought he was our best player today too.

Tigerandahalf

Heaslip had his best game in a while today. He needed it as changes could be on the way after the France game.

Tox56

Heaslip has been excellent all season.

Teferi

Clegg wrote: »

He's right though. Heaslip was Ireland's best backrower.

I thought he was our best player today too.

You misunderstood me. The Captain has said a lot of negative stuff about Heaslip and generally doesn't rate him for reasons only known to himself.

Heaslip had a cracker today.

tolosenc

Marshall had completely slipped my mind.

Healy, Best, Ross
Ryan, O'Connell
Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip
Marshall, Sexton
Kearney, D'arcy, Bowe, Trimble
Kearney

Cronin, Court, Tuohy, POM, Reddan, O'Gara, McFadden

Lapsed Catholic

sting60 wrote: »

Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney,Kidney.Should never have got the job he is shocking.

Agree, agree, agree, agree, agree etc etc

Heaslip may have been good today, but it was long over due.

DOC, never again

POM for 7

Angela McCourt is not a test level prop, there are better in the AIL.

Kidney is way out of his depth.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Teferi wrote: »

You misunderstood me. The Captain has said a lot of negative stuff about Heaslip and generally doesn't rate him for reasons only known to himself.

Heaslip had a cracker today.

It has nothing to do with not rating him. During the WC he was at the extremely high standards that he had set for himself so I criticised him.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that he had a cracker. He had a very good game but, he needs to improve his carrying from the scrum and stop finding himself wasted out on the wing. Definitely the pick of the backrow though. Ferris especially, had a very poor game by his astronomic standards.

Quint2010

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

It has nothing to do with not rating him. During the WC he was at the extremely high standards that he had set for himself so I criticised him.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that he had a cracker. He had a very good game but, he needs to improve his carrying from the scrum and stop finding himself wasted out on the wing. Definitely the pick of the backrow though. Ferris especially, had a very poor game by his astronomic standards.

I agree by his standards he was average enough but thought he did ok. Unlucky with the yellow card I thought. Will he be cited?

Clegg

Darcy really needs to go. His defence was poor and he offers next to nothing in attack these days. He hasn't been a good player since 2009. I feel bad for him as a was once a genuine top class player in his prime.

You can't really blame him for being selected either. Darcy and Paddy Wallace are our only players that play 12 regularly for their province and Wallace isn't much of a step up from Darcy. I'd like to see Mc Fadden at 12 but Kidney will never pick him there.

I think Ireland are in serious danger of being completely left behind by Wales. Their 2 starting wingers were only teenagers ffs. Gatland took a risk on his younger players and is now being rewarded. I've always been an admirer of Kidney but he really needs to start taking a few risks on players.

cork exile in london

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

drop Heaslip, Murray or Sexton, d'Arcy and McFadden. Heaslip in particular, can only live in his rep for so long.

ban this dude. HEASLIP????? our best bloody player man today

Dave6858

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

It has nothing to do with not rating him. During the WC he was at the extremely high standards that he had set for himself so I criticised him.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that he had a cracker. He had a very good game but, he needs to improve his carrying from the scrum and stop finding himself wasted out on the wing. Definitely the pick of the backrow though. Ferris especially, had a very poor game by his astronomic standards.

I think the back row needs a shake up,the French did it by dropping Harinordoquy for Picamoles.Drop Heaslip to the bench play SOB at 8 and stop wasting him at 7...bring in O'Mahony at 7 and Ferris at 6.Bring Heslip off the bench after 60 min and watch him explode into the game.
We are to predictable with our selections,the other teame know what to expect from us now.....is this not obvious to everyone!!!
How stale we look now,EOS all over again!
Watch Munster/Ulster and Leinster prgress to the H cup Semi-final,make you wonder whats going on...doesent it Declan!!!