Herald Article - Saorview HD costs €1,428 per viewer/subscriber

The Cush

This from the Herald today

HD TV costs €1,400 a viewer

By Claire Murphy

Friday February 03 2012

THE number of people who've signed up to RTE's first ever High Definition (HD) match would fit inside the Aviva for our Six Nations clash with Wales.

And it would be cheaper to fly each person there by helicopter, buy them dinner in Chapter One and put them up in the Merrion than the cost of pumping digital footage into each Saorview subscriber's home.

Saorview has signed up just 49,000 subscribers -- more than half-a-million less than Sky -- which works out at a staggering cost of €1,428 per subscriber.

The State broadcaster will make history on Sunday when our opening Six Nations match against Wales is shown on HD.

However only an estimated 49,000 households have signed up to the highly publicised Saorview since it was launched by RTE last year.

And although close to half-a-million people are expected to tune into Sunday's Six Nation campaign opener, a mere 10pc of viewers will be watching the action in high definition.

The digital system Saorview will replace the old analogue television service -- households who still use an aerial to obtain the signal will lose Irish television programming when the analogue signal is switched off.

The service carries eight channels and is now available to 97pc of households nationwide. It involves purchasing a set-top box.

The system was unveiled to much fanfare in May last year when it was revealed that the broadcaster would invest €70m in the system.

[email]clairemurphy@ herald.ie[/email]

http://www.herald.ie/news/hd-tv-costs-1400-a-viewer-3009443.html

"RTE's first ever High Definition (HD) match" - I guess she was out of the country last summer, first HD match on Saorview - Magners League Grand Final, Sat 28th May 2011 .

"The system was unveiled to much fanfare in May last year when it was revealed that the broadcaster would invest €70m in the system" - That revelation was reported back in Jun 2010

How did she arrive at the figure of €1,428 per Saorview subscriber? €70m network rollout cost divided by an AGB Nielsen estimate (from a few months ago) of 49,000 homes (not viewers) with Saorview equals €1,428 per viewer (1 viewer per house obviously).

Not a well reseached piece.

Slow news day at the Hearld.

marno21

If there was no HD channel, then the viewers who want HD would watch it on BBC One HD/BBC HD, then RTE would lose viewers. Also, there'd probably be an article highlighting how behind the times RTE are and the fact they don't have a HD channel.

Also, as you said Cush, that article is very badly researched. "First HD match", they didn't need to be out of the country for just the summer, cause I clearly remember the FAI Cup final and the Euro 2012 Playoffs being in HD.

Slow news day indeed.

liamtech

The Cush wrote: »

This from the Herald today



"RTE's first ever High Definition (HD) match" - I guess she was out of the country last summer, first HD match on Saorview - Magners League Grand Final, Sat 28th May 2011 .

"The system was unveiled to much fanfare in May last year when it was revealed that the broadcaster would invest €70m in the system" - That revelation was reported back in Jun 2010

How did she arrive at the figure of €1,428 per Saorview subscriber?

€70m network rollout cost divided by an AGB Nielsen estimate (from a few months ago) of 49,000 homes (not viewers) with Saorview equals €1,428 per viewer (1 viewer per house obviously).

Slow news day at the Hearld.

She is obviously only counting only those who purchased "Saorview Aproved Boxes and TV's"... i have 2 TV's (mheg5 compatible but not approved) and 1 NON approved Humax box.. am i therefore not a saorview user? Obviously i and all those using non saorview saorview approved product users (Ariva 120, humax, freeview HD, Triax 527m 537 etc) are not counted... incredible


Also how does one 'sign up' for saorview... isn't it FTA non subscription?

Digital Satellite TV

Yeah, She must be only counting Approved Boxes & TVs. One of the head boys in RTE contacted us recently to try and get a handle of the quantities of approved and non-approves boxes being sold in the country, ie.. non approved mpeg4 boxes, approved saorview boxes and combo boxes. Based on the numbers we gave them, that 49k housholds figure would seem very low and the actual amount of households accessing the saorview signal would be considerably higher based on our numbers multiplied by competitor websites and bricks and mortar shops. At a rough guess, I'd imagine that it is at least double that.

watty

How much is the cost of each Analogue viewer in terms of Infrastructure expenditure and domestic receivers?
1960 to 1963
1962 to 1982
1976 to 1996

It's a nonsense article. How can you compare cost of a replacement of infrastructure with cost of a single event?

Please correct prices for devaluation of currency/inflation of equipment compared to today.

STB

There have been countless HD games shown live since the first one shown by RTE on July 1st in 2007. That was part of the DTT Trial carried out under the DCMNR & BT banner. RTE were running the show however!

Perhaps someone should tell Claire Murphy that "Saorview" has been on air since 1 August 2008.

Perhaps someone could also explain why digital TV has been introduced in the first place as required under EU law.

I have to say I also admire the sensationalist way the story has been written in the first instance.

So the cost of showing that match is calculated by dividing the number of estimated Saorview viewers (49k!!!!) into the cost of building the countries digital network €70m. Eh that would be the infrastructural cost of the digital network and not the cost for one HD programme. Eh No. But hey don't let the simple maths and facts get in the way of writing a sensationalist piece for one of O' Reilly's rags.

Elephant in the room ? I would like to think that Claire Murphy was just being sensationalist, but it honestly reads like someone from Sky has written the story because the don't have the HD feed for some Irish games, be it GAA or Rugby or indeed the RTE2 HD channel at present.

Personally, I have long suspected that big business doesn't like any competition (especially FTA platforms) and has long reaching arms, especially when it comes to anyone but themselves having exclusive arrangements! I wonder if certain TV subscription companies have large advertising budgets with certain papers. Hey but lets not speculate about how that could influence real journalism integrity.

Another point for Claire is the difference between using the words "subscription" or "subscribed" in connection with free to air television. There are no subscriptions required.

That is Sky and UPC, love. They require quite hefty subscriptions.

Perhaps we could have a balanced piece pointing out what exactly is free and the free alternative to subscription TV. Sky have made a big song and dance about moving 800 jobs from a contracted job in Cork to Dublin. Was that to create jobs ? Or was it a knee jerk reaction to FTA alternatives (to Sky's PAY only subscription "service") being discussed and used by members of this board since 2008 and now being available at very low costs and becoming a real alternative proposition given the economic climate ! Has it also anything to do with Netflix's heavy and effective advertising campaign ??

PressTheButton

Not the first story this week 'researched' by Irish News & Media based on misrepresentation of the facts - viz. Magda accusations by the Irish Independent on Wednesday. Another sad day for Irish 'journalism'.

formerly scottish paddy

What a truly appalling article!........typical Indo RTE bashing!........no attempt to be even marginally accurate! "viewers who use an aerial will lose Irish TV" obviously written by someone who hasn't a clue about what she is writing. RTE should send a letter of complaint about this total misinformation which will no doubt make the job of explaining ASO/DSO to the public that much harder. They should also stop all Saorview advertising in the Herald.

Round Cable

So the investment in the Saorview network (€70m) is for just one HD rugby match tomorrow? What a ridiculous article. Additionally, how can you calculate Soarview subscribers? Just because someone has bought a new TV (Saorview approved), it doesn't mean that they're not connecting it to a Sky or UPC box.

emaherx

Round Cable wrote: »

Additionally, how can you calculate Soarview subscribers? Just because someone has bought a new TV (Saorview approved), it doesn't mean that they're not connecting it to a Sky or UPC box.

exactly and just because some one dosen't have a certified receiver dosen't mean they can't receive the Saorview channels.

Also won't the digital network actually cost less to run, once the Analouge one is switched off. Less sites and less frequencys used, 2 Mux (ie all of saorview currant and planned) should roughly equate to 2 Analouge channels in power consumption. Although probably take a while to make back €70m in lecky bills.

watty

yes

Sam Russell

Another Indo article url]http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/the-real-cost-of-the-aviva-stadium-2184726.html[/url quotes the cost of the Aviva staduim as a net figure of €411m, with €191m coming from the taxpayer and the rest split between the FAI and IRFU.

That means, using the logic used in the Hreald article, each seat cost €7,500 with €3,500 coming from the taxpayer. And just for one match.

What a load of $$$$

wil

She lost me at "subscribers"
Saorview is a non-subscription service , hence the albeit literal translation from the vernacular "Free view begorrah"

Think she completely misunderstood her brief.
She forgot to include the price of setting up RTE and the cost to the state for the last 50 years, then there was Franklin, Bell, Edison, Tesla, Baird et al expenses.
Finally cleared up where all our money went:rolleyes:

mike65

That article is so poor in every respect one can only wonder about the sequence of events that led it to its appearance in print. Did Claire Murphy come up with this "subscription" angle on her own or was she fed it by some fool (possibly at SKY) or just told to write up a piece based on the stupidity of an editor?

lucernarian

That article is pretty embarrassing for the Herald. It really makes them look stupid and it's like they don't even know you don't have to subscribe to Saorview!! Thousands of people are also watching it on cheap USB digital TV dongles let alone all the non-certified TVs out there. 49,000 indeed:rolleyes:

Sam Russell

It has long been said that the only thing you can beleive in an Indo paper is a good portion of chips. Even that you have to take with a good pinch of salt.

mike65

whay-hey!

The Cush

More inaccurate reporting from the Indo group

How analogue switch-off affects you

RTE will switch off the analogue broadcasting signal in Ireland on October 24 this year, and the free digital TV service Saorview -- which is operated by a subsidiary of RTE -- will then be the only place that viewers will be able to watch the terrestrial channels RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4 without paying.

Saorview also offers a number of add-on channels such as RTE 2HD and RTE Junior -- again all free of charge.

It means people will no longer be able to receive their Irish TV channels via their aerial unless they get a Saorview-approved TV or a Saorview set-top box.

UK channels such as BBC and ITV will no longer be available anywhere via a rooftop aerial, but they are already available free along with over 100 other digital channels via Freesat if you have a satellite dish.

The total cost of buying and installing a new Saorview aerial and satellite system to get both Irish and British stations is around €300 to €380 -- but there are no further monthly or yearly charges.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/how-analogue-switchoff-affects-you-3018274.html

STB

I see Sky are running adverts at the moment which drops in the words "digital switchover" and that Sky will be the solution.

They must be wetting themselves when they read this stuff unless they are writing it! But hey I am not Mel Gibson and this is not Conspiracy Theory.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

I see Sky are running adverts at the moment which drops in the words "digital switchover" and that Sky will be the solution.

Didn't see the Sky ad that mentions digital switchover but have heard them say "get ready for digital".

STB

The Cush wrote: »

Didn't see the Sky ad that mentions digital switchover but have heard them say "get ready for digital".

Well the one I saw last night would have left the more illinformed TV watcher in no doubt that Sky had something to do with the digital switchover. Call Sky in Cork was the tagline. So it was for Irish audience.

Given that an ASO campaign and DSO campaign is already underway these adverts should be banned as it confuses those already confused. I wont say that they are deliberately misleading but they do not have a disclaimer to say that digital switchover does not require subscription to a pay only company such as Sky. Personally I see them not just as jumping on the bandwagon, but burning the bandwagon at the same time. These adverts are not platform friendly. Whilst Saorview/Freeview/Freesat have to play fair as regards their platform, others it would seem dont.

Looking at their website, which provides more than the half truths you can in 30secs. "Television in Ireland is going digital. TV viewers who wish to continue receiving the Irish TV channels after the analogue switch off will need to upgrade to the national digital terrestrial television service or join a digital TV provider, like Sky, by 24 October 2012.
With Sky, it's easy to get ready for the digital switchover. Sky digital TV gives you all the television you love and makes it easy to watch TV the way it suits you. It's a simple way to go digital without missing out on any of your favourite TV shows. Afterall, our Irish customers have been enjoying quality digital TV for years"

They have been warned about this already in the UK. Switchover is NOT overly complicated.

There have already been Sky adverts pulled by the Advertising Standards in the UK on this very subject.

Sky have for years tried to associate the term digital as equaling Sky alone.

I would have thought that it will generate a complaint.

channelsurfer2

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/thousands-ditch-pay-tv-to-save-money-ahead-of-digital-deadline-3018259.html


link to another indo article today stating 44,000 customers have switched in the last 2 years to free tv....brings the freesat total in ireland to ver 170,000?? I see Tony is quoted from Satellite.ie in the article as well.

cast_iron

Under Sky's "Digital Switchover FAQ", we have this gem:

Will my video still work?
Your recorder may be affected after the switchover, with some DVD and video recorders losing the ability to record one programme while you watch another. Sky+ and Sky+HD boxes are a digital TV switchover solution and digital video recorder in one, meaning you can continue to record and store your favourite programmes to watch.

It took even me a minute to understand it. Who uses "video recorders" anymore. You can't even buy them!

watty

ASAI will never do anything.

mike65

cast_iron wrote: »

Under Sky's "Digital Switchover FAQ", we have this gem:

Will my video still work?
Your recorder may be affected after the switchover, with some DVD and video recorders losing the ability to record one programme while you watch another. Sky+ and Sky+HD boxes are a digital TV switchover solution and digital video recorder in one, meaning you can continue to record and store your favourite programmes to watch.

It took even me a minute to understand it. Who uses "video recorders" anymore. You can't even buy them!

Just cos you don't use one it doesn't mean that some of the millions of them are not still in use. They have to take that into account.

STB

watty wrote: »

ASAI will never do anything.

Oh not the ASAI. The BAI.

http://www.bai.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/General-Commercial-Communications-Code.pdf

watty

The BAI?
They are not on the same planet as the rest of us as their Pay DTT delusions and criticisms of RTENL pricing policy shows. They are too political.

The Cush

Letter from today's Irish Times

Saorview: the big picture

Sir, – I cannot understand why Saorview has been launched in a format incompatible with UK (Northern Ireland) services.

Surely a “cross-Border” initiative would have been more desirable and cost effective.

Growing numbers of viewers use either Sky, UPC, “free-to-air” satellite or web-based services. Forcing consumers to invest in new aerials, TV sets, or set-top boxes can only diminish the customer base further.

I would like to know the total value of State investment in advertising, infrastructure, and project management per household (of those who convert to Saorview). – Yours, etc,

ADRIAN DONNELLY,

Ballynacally, Co Clare.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2012/0215/1224311800138.html

€1,428 per viewer/subscriber/household accoding to the Herald, Mr Donnelly must've seen the article.

Sam Russell

That is a nonsense question. No-one knows how many 'household' will convert to Saorview. No infrastructure is costed like that, and no investment is ever judged like that. The whole project is driven by EU demands for a change-over to digital which has the aim of improving the viewers experience by giving improved PQ and choice. I]We miss out there on the choice bit[/I. It is also the intention to free up spectrum for other use.

Perhaps we should ask the DAA to cost the 2nd terminal at Dublin Airport per passenger that checks in this month, or per taxi that uses it. What utter rubbish.

watty

It's really about selling of TV spectrum. Everything else is sugar on the pill.

There are some advantages, but that isn't why it's happening.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

It's really about selling of TV spectrum. Everything else is sugar on the pill.

There are some advantages, but that isn't why it's happening.

The real reasons why things are done at EU level are rarely disclosed to the public. It is a mere coincidence that the powers that be tried to foist a pay tv regime on us, and when that failed, RTE basically lost interest in the DTT project. The hoped for windfall will benefit multinational companies, and not the state as the prices will be small as the markets will make sure of it.

Look at how the state made a great show with full Garda support of allowing Shell to exploit the Corrib gas field when they will contribute nothing in revenues to the state, while selling us our own gas at a huge tax free profit. Wonder who arranged that - must have been some berk.

who is this

Sam Russell wrote: »

The real reasons why things are done at EU level are rarely disclosed to the public.

Are you suggesting that there was no reasons disclosed? Or that they just aren't the "real" reasons (if so, how could you know they are not the "real" reasons)? Because, it is well known the DTT switchover at EU level is all about spectrum (more recently, documents have been more specific, mentioning LTE). It's been stated many times, especially because analogue communications use spectrum so inefficiently. There was a press release just yesterday (or the day before) re: freeing up the TV spectrum asap for LTE. And thank god there is the EU there to push. Its not coincidence our analogue switchoff is at the end of this year. Without the EU, who knows when it would be? (Which would have consequences for LTE availability).

The alternative outcome that would arise is everywhere using different LTE bands based on whats available. There's already a nightmarish number of LTE bands, intra-EU being like that would be hell for roaming.

Also Ms Murphy might also want to take into account the money raised from the LTE-auctions (if they ever happen!). Since they're auctioning the very spectrum that will be freed up by the switchover, by her methodology that is money raised by that particular broadcast.

Sam Russell

I am not suggesting that reasons are not disclosed, but often, hidden agendas operate. For example, we have moved from cheap electricity to expensive electricity (in relative terms) because the non-profit ESB was forced to increase its prices (because it did not make a profit) to allow other suppliers to compete. The result of all the competition is to bring prices down. [That is twisted logic by anyone's measure].

The only benefits from auctioning the spectrum is to the benefit of the communication companies. The last auction for the second mobile licence has cost us millions in a tribunal to find out what went on behind the scenes. Of course, for reasons never disclosed, that was not an auction but a beauty contest. As was the contest for the DVB-T pay TV debacle, again, no reasons were disclosed. Need I say more?

watty

The problem is often not the EU, but deliberate ignoring, obfuscation or twisting of EU policy to suit the ends of (or stupidity) Local politicians.