Porsche 928 Vrt

andromeda76

Hi there, Ive been thinking about bringing a late 80s early 90s 928 s4 in from the UK. There doesnt seem to be many for sale here, infact i could only find one on carzone. I was wondering if anybody had any experience with Vrt on these models(S4). Would the taxman go to town on me???

Anan1

Have you looked at the one in Cameron Car Sales? I'd imagine they'd take just about any offer at this stage.

goochy

the one at cameron car sales seems a good car and yes its been for sale along time , i think Lambe & o connor imported it in 1989 ( remember seeing it !) and Gordon kellett has looked after it . dont think u would get better in uk at that price ! camerons seem a good dealer too - race porsches and sell alot of them too !

bbsrs

Anan1 wrote: »

Have you looked at the one in Cameron Car Sales? I'd imagine they'd take just about any offer at this stage.

Is that the auto V8 one or is there another? the 1989 635 turbo they have looks very nice.

unkel

@OP - do not buy a UK car until you have a written quote of the VRT payable on the particular car you're planning to buy

bbsrs wrote: »

Is that the auto V8 one

All 928s are V8 and the vast majority of them are auto

That particular car has been for sale for years, If I remember right, 3 years ago they were looking for €16,950. But there are very few buyers for these cars, don't I know it

At least on a '87 there's only 5 years and €8k motor tax left to pay until it qualifies for classic tax of just €52.

Seweryn

unkel wrote: »

@OP - do not buy a UK car until you have a written quote of the VRT payable on the particular car you're planning to buy

If the car is not listed on the Revenue database online, it is impossible to get a quotation on the VRT until you bring the car for the inspection. And you may get very unpleasantly surprised.

Capri

Seweryn wrote: »

If the car is not listed on the Revenue database online, it is impossible to get a quotation on the VRT until you bring the car for the inspection. And you may get very unpleasantly surprised.

The Revenue seem to have 2 ways to do VRT on classics - an old Anglia is a 'classic' at €40 or something, but a Cossie or Porsche is a 'collectors car' and the sky is the limit on VRT.

Tried to convert a 96 R Rover 4.6 into commercial but can get SFA info from Revenue about the spec needed so I'm just going to sell it again as an off-road project.

Seweryn

Capri wrote: »

The Revenue seem to have 2 ways to do VRT on classics - an old Anglia is a 'classic' at €40 or something

They charge a flat fee for all vintage cars, which is €200 at the moment (any car which is at least 30 years old the day you import the vehicle; the first registration date is the date to consider).

Capri wrote: »

Porsche is a 'collectors car' and the sky is the limit on VRT.

That is true. If the car is not vintage yet, there is no price tag on it, especially not on a 928 and they can ask almost any money for the VRT.

hi5

Here what they say:)

8.3.1.2 Used cars where it is not possible to determine values on direct comparison with market values in the State.

Where an identical vehicle is not available for comparison purposes, a “similar” model will be identified, having particular regard to characteristics such as price range, body type, engine capacity, transmission, fuel type, CO2 emissions etc., by reference to the general motor vehicle guides available at the time of declaration, by consultation where necessary with trade sources and by reference to established precedents. An OMSP will be determined by comparison to the value of the “similar” model, with adjustments being made for increased or decreased specification as appropriate.

To assist in the calculation of the likely VRT, using this method, a VRT estimate form has been devised. Using this form, one can estimate the VRT due on a particular vehicle by establishing retail ratios between similar models that are on sale in both the UK and Ireland. By applying an average of those ratios to the particular vehicle, one can estimate to a degree of confidence the likely OMSP that may be determined by Revenue officials for this vehicle when presented for registration and then the expected VRT liability. The form and instructions on its use are included at Appendix 4. A completed sample is attached at Appendix 4.

For vehicles from other countries for which there is no market and for which it is difficult to identify a “similar” model and therefore no base for calculating what the vehicle might reasonably be expected to fetch on a first arm’s length sale, a method of “grossing up” may be used. The original purchase price (or an average purchase price) of the imported model is taken as a starting point. This is then grossed up by reference to the exchange rate between the country of purchase and Ireland and the differences in the tax base, (e.g. different VAT rates and dealers profit margin). This process will yield a figure, from which the current OMSP for VRT purposes can be derived.

For unique vehicles, e.g. classic/collectible vehicles, limousines, kit/reconstructed vehicles and other exotic vehicles, which, by their unique characteristics are not capable of being valued by reference to other vehicles on sale in the State, Revenue seeks the opinion of an automotive consultant retained by Revenue. The OMSP is then determined taking his opinion and any other relevant information (including documentation provided by the person presenting the vehicle for registration) into account.

bbsrs

hi5 wrote: »

Here what they say:)

8.3.1.2 Used cars where it is not possible to determine values on direct comparison with market values in the State.

Where an identical vehicle is not available for comparison purposes, a “similar” model will be identified, having particular regard to characteristics such as price range, body type, engine capacity, transmission, fuel type, CO2 emissions etc., by reference to the general motor vehicle guides available at the time of declaration, by consultation where necessary with trade sources and by reference to established precedents. An OMSP will be determined by comparison to the value of the “similar” model, with adjustments being made for increased or decreased specification as appropriate.

To assist in the calculation of the likely VRT, using this method, a VRT estimate form has been devised. Using this form, one can estimate the VRT due on a particular vehicle by establishing retail ratios between similar models that are on sale in both the UK and Ireland. By applying an average of those ratios to the particular vehicle, one can estimate to a degree of confidence the likely OMSP that may be determined by Revenue officials for this vehicle when presented for registration and then the expected VRT liability. The form and instructions on its use are included at Appendix 4. A completed sample is attached at Appendix 4.

For vehicles from other countries for which there is no market and for which it is difficult to identify a “similar” model and therefore no base for calculating what the vehicle might reasonably be expected to fetch on a first arm’s length sale, a method of “grossing up” may be used. The original purchase price (or an average purchase price) of the imported model is taken as a starting point. This is then grossed up by reference to the exchange rate between the country of purchase and Ireland and the differences in the tax base, (e.g. different VAT rates and dealers profit margin). This process will yield a figure, from which the current OMSP for VRT purposes can be derived.

For unique vehicles, e.g. classic/collectible vehicles, limousines, kit/reconstructed vehicles and other exotic vehicles, which, by their unique characteristics are not capable of being valued by reference to other vehicles on sale in the State, Revenue seeks the opinion of an automotive consultant retained by Revenue. The OMSP is then determined taking his opinion and any other relevant information (including documentation provided by the person presenting the vehicle for registration) into account.

I wonder how much the consultant gets paid per consultation and who he is ?

unkel

Seweryn wrote: »

If the car is not listed on the Revenue database online, it is impossible to get a quotation on the VRT until you bring the car for the inspection. And you may get very unpleasantly surprised.

You can get a quote by email. At least that was the case back when the VRO handled the VRT. I sent two emails asking for a VRT quote and only ever got a reply to one. After about two weeks :rolleyes:

Not sure how it works with the NCT crowd now...

Seweryn

unkel wrote: »

You can get a quote by email. At least that was the case back when the VRO handled the VRT...

Yes, it was the case in the past before the NCT took over .

unkel wrote: »

Not sure how it works with the NCT crowd now...

It desn't, i.e. you can't get a VRT quote on a car that is not listed in their database. It is just not possible until you bring your newly purchased car and present in for an inspection. I was interested in an "exotic" car before, but after trying to get a quote for VRT, I gave up finally. I just did not want to play Russian Roulette with my budget .

dahamsta

It's a crazy setup, I'd love to bring an XJR over but who can afford to work without a budget?

carchaeologist

It's annoying with all their computing and checking of varoous things they cant give a VRT price on what is basically an old Car. It's not exactly rocket science.

Seweryn

carchaeologist wrote: »

It's annoying with all their computing and checking of varoous things they cant give a VRT price on what is basically an old Car. It's not exactly rocket science.

For them it looks like it is :rolleyes:.

There are many cars that can cost anything in VRT, i.e. a 20-year old G-Class Mercedes-Benz, which is also not listed on the Revenue website. Even if you get a good, inexpensive example, you never know if you can afford the VRT tax.

unkel

That's crazy stuff. And I guess you can only appeal after you've paid the VRT in full, or did I get that wrong too?

Seweryn

unkel wrote: »

That's crazy stuff. And I guess you can only appeal after you've paid the VRT in full, or did I get that wrong too?

You are right there . You must pay the VRT up front and if you feel overcharged there are procedures to go through, but after you have paid your fees.

Dades

Even if they give you a quote, they can revise it (up or down) upon inspection of the car, if I recall.

So it's only really a yardstick. A well worth having yardstick, it has to be said.

Seweryn

Dades wrote: »

Even if they give you a quote, they can revise it (up or down) upon inspection of the car, if I recall..

True. It actually happened to me years ago. I bought a VW Beetle and I had a written quote from Revenue for the VRT (the car was not vintage yet), but when I brought my washed, shiny car for an inspection, the lady from Revenue almost fell in love with it and put up its market value straight away, so I had to look deeper into my pocket .

Dades

Seweryn wrote: »

True. It actually happened to me years ago. I bought a VW Beetle and I had a written quote from Revenue for the VRT (the car was not vintage yet), but when I brought my washed, shiny car for an inspection, the lady from Revenue almost fell in love with it and put up its market value straight away, so I had to look deeper into my pocket .

I had the opposite. Got a quote of about €900, but it got reduced to the minimum.

I made a special effort to have the car messy and unwashed, and had my 1 year old daughter on hand to distract the inspection lady in the VRT office.

Seweryn

Dades wrote: »

I had the opposite. Got a quote of about €900, but it got reduced to the minimum.

I made a special effort to have the car messy and unwashed, and had my 1 year old daughter on hand to distract the inspection lady in the VRT office.

Great tactics . I though about something like that after I made my mistake. Will do that with my next car, if I ever by one again...

RobAMerc

I presume you've seen this one ?

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/2577311

galwaytt

....the sky is the limit for VRT on one of those.

I know of a guy who got a VRT price on a 1987 944 Turbo not long ago: €2300. For a 928..........God only knows: double it ?

It's a complete roll of the dice, and Revenue will do nothing to help you. Believe me, I have the letter(s) from them about WHY they won't give you a price......they are too busy !!

Yep, that is the official position from the Chairwoman of Revenue, Ms Feehily.

Remind me to add to this subject, again, and I'll dig it out - meant to reply, but ran out of time....

andromeda76

Thanks for all the advice, very informing. Looks like the vrt crowd make up the rules as the go along. Doesn't look promising. I'd still love the car of course. I'm might go and have a look at the one in Cameron cars at the weekend.

andromeda76

RobAMerc wrote: »

I presume you've seen this one ?

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/2577311

I have, unfortunately that's on uk plates. I've emailed the seller asking did he get a quote on the vrt. Awaiting reply.

unkel

Make sure you keep us updated!

dahamsta

Have I missed unkel mentioning that his own 928 is for sale, or is he just being polite?

http://www.adverts.ie/vintage-classic/porsche-928-completely-original-6-950/120467

I'd have no hesitation in buying a car from unkel, in fact I lusted after his 735i for ages.

adam

unkel

Thanks Adam

Mine (on Irish plates) has been off the road for a few years now. I have it for sale but I haven't been pushing it as I'm not desperate for the money and the market is not good right now

That said, it is unlikely I will have it on the road anytime soon and I have to be realistic. Waiting for another 4 years until the tax is €52 per year is not a great option really...

I will let it go for several thousand below the asking price in the ad. The car is not perfect by any means, but it is sound and very original. Last put through the NCT a bit over a year ago and all work (it was only minor, drivers side electric window motor, new cv boots and a few small things) was carried out, the car got a new battery and an oil service + filter. Basic work was done by local mechanic who messed me about (and then went bust), the car missed the re-test so it does not have a current NCT

Might even swap for another classic, must be on classic tax with no work needing...

Seweryn

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If it wasn't for the tax rate I would walk over to your house with a wad of cash tomorrow. I love 928`s

You would be one of many, if it wansn't .

unkel

If it wasn't for the tax, the car wouldn't be off the road :cool:

Don't get me wrong, I have paid max tax for many years on several different cars. Paid up front for the year usually. I don't mind the high tax in a way, because it makes great cars (with big engines) a lot cheaper to buy.

Circumstances have changed though. We don't really need 2 cars for work anymore and then there was this R thing that hit hard

unkel

I've never had a manual 928? Or do you mean the manual for the 928? Then yes, I have the manual and the service book

Seweryn

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Hmm then who am I thinking of, didn't somebody on here have two 928`s on a manual and one an auto or where they 968`s. I must be loosing my marbles!

They were 968's.

unkel

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Hmm then who am I thinking of, didn't somebody on here have two 928`s on a manual and one an auto or where they 968`s. I must be loosing my marbles!

GalwayTT still has both a manual and an auto 968 I think

Did you know that the engine in the 968 (and the 944 S2) is in fact half of the engine used in the 928?

SilverBell

andromeda76 wrote: »

I have, unfortunately that's on uk plates. I've emailed the seller asking did he get a quote on the vrt. Awaiting reply.

Hi andromeda76, that 928 ad has been renewed. Did he get back to you with a VRT quote? It looks v nice in the photos.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/2577311

andromeda76

SilverBell wrote: »

Hi andromeda76, that 928 ad has been renewed. Did he get back to you with a VRT quote? It looks v nice in the photos.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/2577311

Hi, I got a reply the other day. The car has 130000 miles on it. He doesn't know what the vrt is, and he said the last owner reckoned it was about €1000. Which I seriously doubt. Thats all the info I got. I wouldn't fancy taking a chance with the vrt, could end up costing a bloody fortune. Shame we can't get straight answers from motor tax people.

galwaytt

andromeda76 wrote: »

SilverBell wrote: »

Hi andromeda76, that 928 ad has been renewed. Did he get back to you with a VRT quote? It looks v nice in the photos.
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/vintagecars/2577311

Hi, I got a reply the other day. The car has 130000 miles on it. He doesn't know what the vrt is, and he said the last owner reckoned it was about €1000. Which I seriously doubt. Thats all the info I got. I wouldn't fancy taking a chance with the vrt, could end up costing a bloody fortune. Shame we can't get straight answers from motor tax people.

There isn't a snowball's chance in Hell if VRT-ing that for 1000.

A 1987 944t recently got assessed for €2300........so it's anyone's guess....double it ? My 93 968 cost...3800? IIRC, in 08.

Oh, yeah, and I STILL have 2 968s

One manual, one Tiptronic. Prefer Tip, myself, so manual car unused for......2 years now ? Currently trying to trade them for bikes in UK.

If you do find a manual 928, it'll be huge money. Wrong ' box for that car imho..

dag9289

Hi

I am going over to the UK on Thursday to look at a couple of 928s with the intention to buy one.

One was registered in July of '82 and the other was registered in January '80.

I take it either of these are eligible for classic VRT classifications and Road Tax. Am I correct in this

Dag9289

Kenny Logins

dag9289 wrote: »

Hi

I am going over to the UK on Thursday to look at a couple of 928s with the intention to buy one.

One was registered in July of '82 and the other was registered in January '80.

I take it either of these are eligible for classic VRT classifications and Road Tax. Am I correct in this

Dag9289

Yep. Once over 30 years old, VRT is a flat rate of €200.

Bigus

dag9289 wrote: »

Hi

I am going over to the UK on Thursday to look at a couple of 928s with the intention to buy one.

One was registered in July of '82 and the other was registered in January '80.

I take it either of these are eligible for classic VRT classifications and Road Tax. Am I correct in this

Dag9289

Yes , both over 30 years old

aujopimur

Make sure it has a current MOT for NCT/VRT, get the full V5 from the seller.
If you're driving it back it needs to be taxed MOT'd & insured.

Kenny Logins

LIGHTNING wrote: »

NCT Centre doesn't care if it has a MOT but do keep the full V5.

9)For vehicles over 4 years old, an unexpired roadworthiness certificate confirming that an equivalent to the NCT test has been passed. Where this documentation is not available, the vehicle may be called for a roadworthiness test shortly after registration.

http://www.vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=25

...but not sure what this means exactly.. How long can you drive it without an NCT?

aujopimur

LIGHTNING wrote: »

NCT Centre doesn't care if it has a MOT but do keep the full V5.

Yes it is, it's one of documents required to rereg a car, in its absense it will need to be tested for roadworthiness.

aujopimur

Kenny Logins wrote: »

http://www.vrt.ie/vrtDetail.php?page=25

...but not sure what this means exactly.. How long can you drive it without an NCT?

You must apply within 7 days, tested within 30 days.

Dades

aujopimur wrote: »

Yes it is, it's one of documents required to rereg a car, in its absense it will need to be tested for roadworthiness.

But it has to have an NCT anyway, which will ignore any MOT?

hi5

Here's from the Revenue site

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/vrt-guide.html#section3

8.For vehicles over 4 years old, an unexpired roadworthiness certificate confirming that an equivalent to the NCTS test has been passed. Where this documentation is not available, the vehicle may be called for an NCTS roadworthiness test shortly after registration.

Dades

So if an NCT is required anyway (by virtue of the year)... that surely means an MOT is superfluous.

macplaxton

A few years back, NCT testing was altered for imports based on their first registration in state date rather than their first registration ever date. However, I couldn't find an act or statutory instrument to back this up and know of one person who had their certificate extended to coincide with the first registration ever date, rather than the first registration date in state.

So what are the clowns doing now? Working to the law again or dreaming up rules that have no basis in law?

OneCheque

Lads,

From my experience: I got my 928 from England in February last year; just confirming previous post, the VRT in Northpoint never asked or care for MOT (even though I could present a valid one).

Mine was over 30 years - I could probably never afford to pay VRT and motor tax on any newer car. VRT would be most likely ridiculous and wouldn't reflect the real value of the car; not to mention motor tax robbery for >3l engines, likely to increase with the new budget.

It was a bit of a hassle with registration - built in 1981, the car got a rebuilt engine recently (LH injected 4.7l from 1986) and a manual transmission. The new engine number was not registered on V5 (not necessary in England). I had to get the letter from Paul Anderson about engine being similar spec / same cylinder number etc. With that, VRT cell was pleased and kindly agreed to register. Then vintage tax and NCT (I've done two NCT since, last one passed two weeks ago).

Anyway, isn't it a pleasure to pay a motor tax of EUR 52 p/a? Probably the only tax which makes you smile

macplaxton

OneCheque wrote: »

The new engine number was not registered on V5 (not necessary in England).

It IS necessary in England. Quite often it is not done, but any changes MUST be notified to the DVLA.

It doesn't seem to bother some NCT folk, I had the halfwit not register my last import with the incorrect engine number (they just copied over the typo on the V5C) Upon pointing out, they referred me to the motor tax office. Lazy feckers don't want to do anything once they've had the money. :mad:

(Never had any problems correcting mistakes when the Revenue did the job)

OneCheque

macplaxton wrote: »

It IS necessary in England.

That's what I kind of expected - it only makes sense.

Anyway, it's done and dusted. VRT were not very helpful though.

unkel

dag9289 wrote: »

Hi

I am going over to the UK on Thursday to look at a couple of 928s with the intention to buy one.

One was registered in July of '82 and the other was registered in January '80.

I take it either of these are eligible for classic VRT classifications and Road Tax. Am I correct in this

Dag9289

Well any update? Welcome to boards by the way

And yes as others said, both qualify for €200 VRT upon import and €52 annual motor tax, but both will need to be NCT tested every year going forward. They will never be NCT exempt.