Communion allowance cut 66%

Nick Guats

Debate about this on Joe Duffy right now, The payment has been cut from €250 to just €100

John_Mc

Nick Guats wrote: »

Debate about this on Joe Duffy right now, The payment has been cut from €250 to just €100

Is this a social benefit of some sort? Never heard of it. I'd be very unhappy to hear that people get 250 off the state to help pay for a communion.

Nick Guats

John_Mc wrote: »

Is this a social benefit of some sort? Never heard of it. I'd be very unhappy to hear that people get 250 off the state to help pay for a communion.

Yes its a welfare payment and yes it seems everybody fully dependent on welfare are entitled to get it if they have a child doing their first communion.

Sleepy

Yep, our taxes are helping pay to lavishly indoctrinate children into the catholic church.

Utterly, utterly farcical.

John_Mc

Nick Guats wrote: »

Yes its a welfare payment and yes it seems everybody fully dependent on welfare are entitled to get it if they have a child doing their first communion.

That's disgraceful! 250 is way too much. The state is bankrupt and the taxpayer is paying for peoples children to have their communion.

No wonder we're bankrupt.

frag420

It has turned into a farce with people trying to show of with limos, bespoke suits, expensive dresses etc. Tax payers money should not be spent glamming up a religious ceremony. Kids should be made to wear their school uniforms for communion and confirmation. If they want to glam up they can do so after the ceremony.

frAg

thewing

Cut? Should be abolished more like it. We've a long way to go to the bottom with this kind of farcical behaviour taking place...........

Ellis Dee

Sleepy wrote: »

Yep, our taxes are helping pay to lavishly indoctrinate children into the catholic church.

Utterly, utterly farcical.

Indeed. In fact, there's another thread about this in the After Hours forum.:)

It is appalling, and probably unconstitutional - given that the State is forbidden by Bunreacht na hEireann to endow any religion - that the hard-pressed taxpayer's money is being misused to de facto subsidise one church. If parents want to spend big money on a ceremony that locks their child more closely into a religious system, they should pay for it themselves. Or else that church, with all its gazillions of wealth, should do so.:rolleyes:

How can attendance at any religious ceremony come under the heading of "special needs"? Poor families would be better advised to spend the money on extra footwear, warm clothes or something the children actually need a lot more than religious nonsense.:mad:

It is also wrong that only one denomination seems to be benefiting. I can just imagine the howls of envy, indignation and begrudgery that would pierce the holy air of this island of saints and scholars if it ever became known to our xenophobes that the State was helping to pay for some kinds of rites of passage for needy Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs or indeed even pagans and atheists.:D

femur61

I wonder how many in receipt of it acutally go to mass regularly.

Sleepy

I'd also question how much of the money is actually spent on the child's outfit etc. and how much is smoked, drunk or worn by the parents of the child.

leeroybrown

My question would be, is this allowance available to parents of other faiths when their children have major religious services? If they won't provide it then it should be abolished purely on the grounds of religious discrimination.

drunkmonkey

Nick Guats wrote: »

Debate about this on Joe Duffy right now, The payment has been cut from €250 to just €100

It's not all that should be cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMqWfUsQebc

Nody

Independent article wrote:

Sinn Fein’s Mary Lou McDonald said the move was part of Ms Burton’s ongoing crusade against poorer families.

Did not take long for the "think of the poor" brigade to come out...

And as a side note the limit is 110 down from average of 242 EUR according to the independent article.

Sleepy

Well, if Mary Lou is agin' it, I'm for it!

dsmythy

Unless it involves borrowing to pay for things Mary Lou will be against it. Populist demagoguery from her as ever. She's definitely on the wrong side of opinion on this one which is bad in this case considering she's trying her Populist angle. Talk about backfire.

amacachi

The word's already been used in this thread but it's the most apt; farcical.

Godge

Schools and churches are continually trying to play down the glossy side of things. For confirmations, a lot of schools now require the school uniform to be worn. It is the state, through subsidising it, that have promoted the idea of a glam day.

This is up there with the packets of pampers being handed out by the HSE on a weekly basis.

Dirk Gently

Wasnt aware of this allowance till I saw it in the news today. Pretty disgusting that any money goes towards it. I don't think schools have any business being involved with communion but that's another debate. Seen as how they are though, why cant they just insist kids make it in their school uniform.

State sponsored extravagance of a backwards religious event. Disgusting.

dublinman1990

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not all that should be cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMqWfUsQebc

I watched that video and I swear to god, I have to say that seeing the sight of so many girls wearing short dresses for a first communion ceremony is a complete joke as far as I concerned. That is regarded as an insult to many Irish people who are watching it right now IMO.

When I had my communion many years ago, my mother didn't hear a pindrop about a communion allowance in her life. It is fair to point out that she had struggled to buy clothes, organise a function and buying clothes for herself.

The allowance is a national disgrace and should be abolished immediately.

eire4

I must say I never heard about this until I read about it online on RTE. What a disgrace that we as tax payers are paying a single cent for this. This payment should not be cut it should be abolished. It is not the tax payers job to susidize religious indoctrination.

Chinasea

It shouldn't be reduced it should be scrapped.

I think it is interesting that yet another 'benefit' has come to light that most of us seemed to know nothing about except of course for the usual "disadvantaged" scroungers.

Well just a minute, my family, my relations all wore the same hand me down communion dress and thought nothing of it.

Hotblack Desiato

Chinasea wrote: »

Well just a minute, my family, my relations all wore the same hand me down communion dress and thought nothing of it.

The boys must have enjoyed that

I can't believe that this payment exists.
I can't believe it's legal or constitutional.
I can't believe that anyone thought that subsidising an extravagant religious ceremony (and piss-up excuse) with taxpayers' money was anything other than a terrible idea.

and I REALLY can't believe it's proposed to cut it, not abolish it :mad:

n97 mini

It's an exceptional payment, which can be used for any number of things like paying a bill or buying a washing machine. It's not just for Communions.

Woman on the radio today claims to have borrowed €1200 from a loan shark because of this cut. Talking about buying communion dresses from New York, as apparently that's all the rage. You couldn't really make it up. Once again the poorest and most vulnerable in society are being hit the hardest. Expecting to see Claire Daly on the TV any minute going on about the wurkers.

snubbleste

It's an exceptional needs payment as pointed out. I'm sure it is available to all faiths.
For those who've never heard of it, it's already been done on boards in 2009
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055558068

Lando Griffin

How does one manage to claim this benefit? Do you get a cert from the priest to produce at the SW office? Is there an age limit or could an adult converting to Catholism claim? What equalivant payment is there for other religions?

gerryo777

Sleepy wrote: »

Well, if Mary Lou is agin' it, I'm for it!

That's the kind of thinking we need in this country.:rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

n97 mini wrote: »

It's an exceptional payment, which can be used for any number of things like paying a bill or buying a washing machine. It's not just for Communions.

An exceptional need is your cooker or washing machine breaking down and you need it to feed and clothe your kids. Or you need to travel to a family funeral unexpectedly.

A voluntary religious ceremony scheduled years in advance is NOT an exceptional need in any shape or form.

Woman on the radio today claims to have borrowed €1200 from a loan shark because of this cut. Talking about buying communion dresses from New York, as apparently that's all the rage. You couldn't really make it up. Once again the poorest and most vulnerable in society are being hit the hardest. Expecting to see Claire Daly on the TV any minute going on about the wurkers.

So the 'poorest and most vulnerable in society' should be subsidised to blow €1200 on a communion with a dress from New York? In what parallel universe does that make sense?

dublinman1990

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I watched that video and I swear to god, I have to say that seeing the sight of so many girls wearing short dresses for a first communion ceremony is a complete joke as far as I concerned. That is regarded as an insult to many Irish people who are watching it right now IMO.

When I had my communion many years ago, my mother didn't hear a pindrop about a communion allowance in her life. It is fair to point out that she had struggled to buy clothes, organise a function and buying clothes for herself.

The allowance is a national disgrace and should be abolished immediately.

I think I made a lot of regret of what I said on this post. My mum did get this allowance after all, since asking her that question. I am wholeheartedly sorry to everybody for that mistake.

I would have said that if she didn't get the allowance, she wouldn't have the money to get clothes or anything a function to have a good day. I would to say to ease the stress on parents, that the fairer option is to have school uniforms on the day and then change into something later on.

The points to the video however still remain unchanged.

I do realise that there are differences within certain Church of Ireland religions in comparison to those who are Catholic.

A child who is lets say for example a protestant, they would have their first communion during normal Sunday Worship. The boys and especially girls would just wear normal clothes for the day which are not as extravagant as those children who are Catholic.

No talk of designer labels like Coco Chanel, Dolce & Golbana, and plush cars when going through their religious ceremonies!

Meanwhile, I am still trying to find a link to the communion allowance on welfare.ie

Does anyone else know where they can get it.

esharknz

I really don't know what is wrong with hand me downs. It is how I got my communion dress. Then for a simple function at home involving sandwiches and my mothers baking....

hmmm

I was surprised to hear the SVDP were also contributing. If someone is getting 300 quid, what are SVDP topping this up for?

Sleepy

gerryo777 wrote: »

That's the kind of thinking we need in this country.:rolleyes:

Way to miss irony :rolleyes:

Mary Lou McDonald knows as well as anyone else with an IQ above 75 that these payments are ludicrous. However, since those that vote her are the sort of ignorant, ne'er do wells that claim it, she has to appear to be against it.

phog

I'm a practicing catholic and never knew that such a grant was available. I dont see the need for it, there is no cost in actually making your First Holy Communion.

Any cost that arise from the ceremony is actually brought about by peer pressure and I dont see why the state should provide a grant for peer pressure spending.

Next thing we'll be providing money for Sky Subscriptions.

Hotblack Desiato

phog wrote: »

Next thing we'll be providing money for Sky Subscriptions.

We already do :rolleyes:

leeroybrown

ninja900 wrote: »

We already do :rolleyes:

Sssh. We don't want people finding out. I wouldn't be able to have all the movies and sports without the Sky Sub payment.

andrewdeerpark

phog wrote: »

Next thing we'll be providing money for Sky Subscriptions.

Nothing but the full sports and movie pack May I suggest.

Farcical country a neighbour of mine scammed all these add-on welfare perks for years: the school book allowance, the communion, cooker / fridge breakdown you name it he had it.... he worked for cash, and rented a room in his house to his partner who had his child and was claiming rent allowance as well as the usual single mothers perks. She has since moved out to a new council house …

So to recap we are broke, and we have the most generous never-ending welfare weekly payments in Europe as well as these fringe benefits. No wonder the troika are here scratching their heads, this cannot go on….

As for the jumping up and down by Mary Lou; does she have private health insurance? I see our extreme socialist Joe Higgins refused to answer the question?

jank

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not all that should be cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMqWfUsQebc

Christ, freaks the lot of them. Very disturbing.

jank

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

As for the jumping up and down by Mary Lou; does she have private health insurance? I see our extreme socialist Joe Higgins refused to answer the question?

Champagne Socalists the lot of them. Hammering the Private health option yet probably availing of it themselves.

I am serious. We need to type of truthometer for Ireland when it comes to this stuff. I guarantee you that all of the union bosses have private health insurance.

MadsL

Two words.
Scrap. Now.

Some more words, have every bishop insist on school uniform for 1st communions.

Even more words. End the fking monopoly that certain shop keepers have with school uniforms. Let Tesco, Penneys and Dunnes provide the uniforms. Turn the back-to-school allowance into One Child One E-book and end the textbook rip-off.

Chinasea

hmmm wrote: »

I was surprised to hear the SVDP were also contributing. If someone is getting 300 quid, what are SVDP topping this up for?

Don't be surprised.

Sorry but personally I really query some of the payments that SVDP hand out. The litter warden informed me that when they have managed to track back one particular family who have been dumping their litter on the streets they get the SVDP to pay the fine. They also pay the subscription to local football club for the alleged disadvantaged who claim they can't afford to pay although passing by their local authority houses (with extreme low rent) you wouldn't think so with their ginormas flat screens adorned on the walls.

Godge

Chinasea wrote: »

Don't be surprised.

Sorry but personally I really query some of the payments that SVDP hand out. The litter warden informed me that when they have managed to track back one particular family who have been dumping their litter on the streets they get the SVDP to pay the fine. They also pay the subscription to local football club for the alleged disadvantaged who claim they can't afford to pay although passing by their local authority houses (with extreme low rent) you wouldn't think so with their ginormas flat screens adorned on the walls.

I used to donate to charities but then I found that in one case the money I thought was going to a particular cause was being spent in lobbying the government on how to spend my tax money and I gave up.

Charities are even more opaque than any government department.

I had stopped giving to SVDP because I had heard of some local practices as you describe. The thing is there is real poverty out there that is being missed.

These days I limit myself to giving unwanted goods to local charity shops (even if the money is badly spent, it is better than the goods going to landfill) and helping small organisations in the local area such as schools, football clubs and scouts groups with their fund-raising by giving my time.

jmayo

No wonder we are so fooked.

And even better they only cut it. :rolleyes:
Abolish it altogether.

Even worse is having to listen to that mare mcdonald mouthing off about this.
Oh I never have and never will contribute to SVP because it is a con job.

I don't see why my taxes should go towards someones celebration of a religious right of passage. :mad:

Tazz T

This is a troll right? There is no such thing!?!?!?!?

If there is, whatever politician came up with this should be hung.

Even if it does exist, it's actually 'non-inclusive' of other religions.

I believe in the religion of heavy metal. Can I have an allowance to go to a gig?

seamus

Tazz T wrote: »

This is a troll right? There is no such thing!?!?!?!?

If only.

There are discretionary social welfare payments that can be made for someone suffering extreme hardship. These are unrelated to dole payments, child payments, etc. It's supposed to be for cases where someone (for example) has received a €500 gas bill and hasn't a hope of being able to pay for it, or someone's cooker has packed in and they have dinner to cook for 5 kids.

However it has been routinely used to provide a "hardship" payment for parents of communion-age children. No doubt some waste of skin in Fianna Fail directed the Dept of SW to make these payments as matter of course in a vote-winning exercise, and as we were in the good times, nobody really cared.

What flabbergasts me is that they're only reducing this payment instead of scrapping it altogether. You may as well give people a payment so they can buy a wedding dress when they get married.

GSF

I dont understand why the state is paying towards private religious ceremonies anyway?

BKtje

If it is designed for extreme hardship cases then I'd say leave it as it is but narrow the definition of extreme hardship to, well, extreme hardship. I have no issues with the state paying for the repairs of a cooker when there are hungry mouths to feed as long as (substantial) proof is given of the inability to pay for it oneself. I also don't think a flat fee or cash in hand would work. Give the bill and if it seems outrageous then a follow up can be initiated to investigate the reason. This should force people to try to get the best deal possible. Possibly increase the cost of the thing though but at least it would (I'd hope anyway) benefit those who really needed it.

Paying for events is just taking the piss. That said I'm (thankfully) no longer an Irish tax payer so I guess my say is worth exactly zero.

enricoh

what next!! - a grant for tooth fairy money, 20 quid a tooth should cover it!

who the fug

Church could put a stop to it be making everybody wear school uniforms for the day

Geuze

For information:


These payments come under the heading of Exceptional Needs Payments, part of Supplementary Welfare Allowance (SWA):

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Schemes/SupplementaryWelfareAllowance/Pages/default.aspx

Expenditure is as follows:

SWA = 951m

of which Exceptional Needs Payments = 70m

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Policy/ResearchSurveysAndStatistics/Documents/2010stats.pdf

Geuze

More info:

Some more details on Exceptional Needs Payments:

Housing = 27m, esp new furniture and rent deposits

Clothing = 14.5m

Prams / buggies / cots = 2.1m

jmayo

Geuze wrote: »

More info:

Some more details on Exceptional Needs Payments:

Housing = 27m, esp new furniture and rent deposits

Clothing = 14.5m

Prams / buggies / cots = 2.1m

Oh that new furniture point reminds me of some guy a couple of years back complaining on radio (I would bet it whineline with uncle Joe) about not getting enough or some such.
When someone told him he should make do with second hand furniture he got all uppidy about why he should have to accept second hand furniture.
Then someone pointed out he was getting it for free, unlike the rest of us taxpayers who have to save to buy things.

Of course for a number of years some taxpayers thought money could be got for free from banks. :rolleyes:

Icepick

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not all that should be cut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMqWfUsQebc

child abuse