Worldwide Occupy Movement?

timesnap

I hate to get involved with threads that run to loads of pages because i cannot be sure i will be able to find time to argue my case(as is required in the politics charter) or repeat something that has been said already by another poster.

I do not understand why the various occupy groups are criticised so much.
it has always been a feature of a democratic country to allow protest.
often these groups are students who have strong objections to what their Govt are up to.

more than anything else it was student protest that brought an end to the vietnam war, sadly it took students being shot dead on campus by their own home guard to cause much of the outrage that led America to pull out.
many of these students went on to become *pillars of society*.
not forgetting the much more open press the US had then compared to now.

My point is leave them alone,more often than not they see things more clearly than when they fall into societies *norms*.
bring on the revolution,but not just yet!:)

PeadarCo

timesnap wrote: »

I hate to get involved with threads that run to loads of pages because i cannot be sure i will be able to find time to argue my case(as is required in the politics charter) or repeat something that has been said already by another poster.

I do not understand why the various occupy groups are criticised so much.
it has always been a feature of a democratic country to allow protest.
often these groups are students who have strong objections to what their Govt are up to.

more than anything else it was student protest that brought an end to the vietnam war, sadly it took students being shot dead on campus by their own home guard to cause much of the outrage that led America to pull out.
many of these students went on to become *pillars of society*.
not forgetting the much more open press the US had then compared to now.

My point is leave them alone,more often than not they see things more clearly than when they fall into societies *norms*.
bring on the revolution,but not just yet!:)

If you want to know why the Occupy movement faces a whole lot of critisism read the whole thread. Look at the answers of the groups supporters to fairly basic questions; what are your aims, what do you stand for etc. The Occupy Galway thread would also be another eyeopener.

Protesting is perfectly fine but so is the right to critisise those protesting.

timesnap

PeadarCo wrote: »

If you want to know why the Occupy movement faces a whole lot of critisism read the whole thread. Look at the answers of the groups supporters to fairly basic questions; what are your aims, what do you stand for etc. The Occupy Galway thread would also be another eyeopener.

Protesting is perfectly fine but so is the right to critisise those protesting.

and so it should be ,but often people who mean only to protest in a peaceful manner are hijacked by groups with a much more sinister agenda.

PeadarCo

timesnap wrote: »

and so it should be ,but often people who mean only to protest in a peaceful manner are hijacked by groups with a much more sinister agenda.

True but how does an outsider looking in know that? It could easily be seen as a simple change in objectives.

The other thing you should understand ordinary businesses in the area are suffering because of the ODS site given the economy they have enough troubles.

Permabear

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timesnap

PeadarCo wrote: »

ordinary businesses in the area are suffering because of the ODS site given the economy they have enough troubles.

No argument from me on that PeaderCO,that is just plain wrong!

oscarBravo

timesnap wrote: »

No argument from me on that PeaderCO,that is just plain wrong!

Someone ought to explain that to the Occupy movement, whose attitude appears to be that it might not be their fault, and therefore it isn't.

FreudianSlippers

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I'm of a slightly more left-wing view than you on this one; in that I believe we should have guaranteed or bailed out... not both.

hatrickpatrick

Peader I'll reply later when I have time to read it fully but just skimming through on my way home, one thing to clear up: I'm not arguing against state managed capitalism, as you say. I'm not suggesting that's the issue, the issue is with the instruments (banks) which we use to facilitate it. State managed capitalism can exist with or without the gatekeepers of artificial currency (the oil on the wheels) being private, for profit institutions.

Banks should exist to serve a function, nothing more.

FreudianSlippers

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Peader I'll reply later when I have time to read it fully but just skimming through on my way home, one thing to clear up: I'm not arguing against state managed capitalism, as you say. I'm not suggesting that's the issue, the issue is with the instruments (banks) which we use to facilitate it. State managed capitalism can exist with or without the gatekeepers of artificial currency (the oil on the wheels) being private, for profit institutions.

Banks should exist to serve a function, nothing more.

So you believe that there should only be one state bank for each country? As in no private banks?

hatrickpatrick

PeadarCo wrote: »

If you want to know why the Occupy movement faces a whole lot of critisism read the whole thread. Look at the answers of the groups supporters to fairly basic questions; what are your aims, what do you stand for etc. The Occupy Galway thread would also be another eyeopener.

Protesting is perfectly fine but so is the right to critisise those protesting.

Well I've been answering those questions the entire time but you seem to be ignoring the answers. Along with my response to your points later on, I will also post some photos I've taken of ODS which show the most prominent posters displayed at the camp - all of which relate to the banking system and how fundamentally ridiculous its current incarnation is.

hatrickpatrick

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

So you believe that there should only be one state bank for each country? As in no private banks?

It's an idea, isn't it? And what about credit unions, why is it that they have largely escaped from causing the havoc the big banks have?

It's very simple: If a company or institution has the power to, through incompetence, completely and utterly screw up society, then society itself should be in control of it. The banks are basically in a position to say "We're going to have our fun regardless of who we hurt, but if it goes wrong for us it becomes your problem and we won't have to pay for our own mistakes".

There is a fundamental problem with that, do you honestly think it's a good system? If something is "systemic" to the function of society then it should be run solely for the benefit of society.

EDIT: I don't necessarily mean no private banks, but they should be structured in such a way that if one of them collapses, the only people it hurts are the investors in that bank, rather than the apparent situation today wherein one bank collapse can cause an entire economy to implode. It's utterly moronic.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

PeadarCo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's an idea, isn't it? And what about credit unions, why is it that they have largely escaped from causing the havoc the big banks have?

Sorry to dissappoint but Credit Unions haven't avoided it. They have also recieved money from the government.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/regulators-fear-chaos-if-credit-unions-rush-to-merge-3026944.html

PeadarCo

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Well I've been answering those questions the entire time but you seem to be ignoring the answers. Along with my response to your points later on, I will also post some photos I've taken of ODS which show the most prominent posters displayed at the camp - all of which relate to the banking system and how fundamentally ridiculous its current incarnation is.

Thats the typical Occupy response. Blame the person asking the question rather than ask why do people have issues understanding their message. Occupy seem to make their demands deliberately ambigous so that they can't be critiqued and that they can change what they mean using the room their ambiguos terms give them.

What alternative do you have, how would it be structured in what exact way would it be better than a properly regulated version of our current model? How would it prevent a property bubble?(even if in the short term that what people want) How would it ensure bad loans aren't given out?

K-9

PeadarCo wrote: »

Sorry to dissappoint but Credit Unions haven't avoided it. They have also recieved money from the government.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/regulators-fear-chaos-if-credit-unions-rush-to-merge-3026944.html

Many estimates are suggesting they'll need about a Billion. There total losses are obviously nowhere near AIB et al but given the scale of their loans and business, not to be sneezed at or dismissed lightly.

Some judgments recently in the €100's of Thousands in individual cases, shocking considering their mantra.

If they had their way 5/6 years ago, the losses would have been even higher, they were actively seeking to higher their lending limit and go into other areas, going on the figures mentioned, some may have regardless.

Dr Galen

Apparently, the camp on Dame st was removed by the Gardai, sometime around 3am. Looks like everything passed off nice and peacefully.

Hifiman

Dr Galen wrote: »

Apparently, the camp on Dame st was removed by the Gardai, sometime around 3am. Looks like everything passed off nice and peacefully.

No surprises there. It was inevitable. They really were their own worst enemies, the place looked absolutely awful and was undoubtedly dangerous from a health and safety point of view. My guess is that they were looking for a way out and this suits them perfectly. Can't wait to hear the mock indignation and cries of "police brutality" from the Fionns, Rossas and Aoifes later today!

firedancer

Quote on Morning Ireland from protester at Dame St, says this is not the end of Occupy , that it is a concept not about their 'camp' and its physical presence which has now been removed, well, 'hello?''!!!.. We who support the movement have been saying that all along,the concept didn't need a bunch of self serving dropouts on the dole to contaminate the movement.
Now that the Occupy Galway have got their walking papers as well thankfully, the movement can continue without these 'pretenders' who have jumped on the bandwagon of 'Occupy' to promote their own agenda.
What have Occupy Galway achieved?
I know one thing for sure, many people in Galway that I have spoken to who were up for taking to the street in protest, wouldn't be seen dead with most of those 'Occupying' in Eyre Square who hijacked that whole scene.
Let's wait now for their cries of 'police brutality' , surprising as up until now they were literally bedfellows with an Garda Siochana..'we have made Eyre Square safer'...
Safer?? passing God knows what sort of bacteria, viruses, onto unsuspecting public being offered 'cups of chai tea' from a place with absolutely no cleaning facilities whatsoever!
Shouldn't be too difficult moving empty tents anyway....

Who's gonna pay for the clean-up bill??