Slow Play

FixdePitchmark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl7B55srBhs&feature=g-vrec&context=G2f640d1RVAAAAAAAAAA

Running Balance

any one else think that 3 balls is the most should be let out on the course at the weekend?
is there anything worse than playing a two ball and taking 5 hours on a sunday.

thewobbler

I'm sure someone will tell me why I'm wrong, but in what way are three balls on a full timesheet quicker than three balls?

Surely four balls aren't the problem so much as the members of the four balls? Captain slow is still going to be out there, with his yardage devices, full 5 minute rulings, and 33 practice swings, all in tow.

FixdePitchmark

Running Balance wrote: »

any one else think that 3 balls is the most should be let out on the course at the weekend?
is there anything worse than playing a two ball and taking 5 hours on a sunday.

I agree 100 % with this , 4 balls don't work.

Maybe a bunch of lads who play often together and speed each other up. But 4 balls just don't work. Who has 5 hours before you even get there and home ?

FixdePitchmark

Running Balance wrote: »

any one else think that 3 balls is the most should be let out on the course at the weekend?
is there anything worse than playing a two ball and taking 5 hours on a sunday.

It just componds the greater problem of slow play.

They are not ready to take their shot, one doing this in a two ball or 3 ball, you can just get away with it. Two in a fourball , your gone and all others on course.

But there are some good fourballs, but rare.

Running Balance

[QUOTE=Captain slow is still going to be out there, with his yardage devices, full 5 minute rulings, and 33 practice swings, all in tow.[/QUOTE]

don't forget lining up the putt from every angle possible for 5 mins for that triple bogey.

FixdePitchmark

Running Balance wrote: »

don't forget lining up the putt from every angle possible for 5 mins for that triple bogey.

Also slow walkers do my head in.

death1234567

Running Balance wrote: »

don't forget lining up the putt from every angle possible for 5 mins for that all important triple bogey.

FYP.

Its the 4 guys that are up at the crack of dawn, down on the time sheet at 7.55am and then take 5 hours to play 18 holes, sauntering around the course, holding up the 10 groups behind.
Maybe if ye weren't so ****ing slow, ye could sleep an hour longer and tee off at 9. :mad:

foxyboxer

Mr Burns in the Simpsons had a great phrase which we can attribute to slow coaches.

Lollygaggers.

There does tend to be a lot of 'opponent watching'.
Looking at them go through their routine and hitting their shot. For example, one player hits his putt, then Captain Slow gawps at it rolling and then and only then starts reading the green (from every angle like it's the US Masters :rolleyes:)

You're putt should be all but read by the time they hit the putt.
There ought to be a sign on every tee serving a reminder.

DON'T BE A GIT
BE READY TO HIT

thewobbler

It really can't be that difficult in this digital age though to put an end to this, well on competition days anyway.

Every group has an 'official timer' among them. It's his duty to to return to the club house at the end of the round, and stamp their ending time with the competition official.

A quick scan through start times VS the end times in would make it easy to see which groups caused the backlog. Say we're on 8 minute start intervals, then every group that has a 16 minute end interval over their predecessor, is marked as an offending group. The first group out would be given a suitable window to set the pace.

Everyone in an offending group is put on a warning and given an individual strike. On their third individual strike (in a calendar year), that card is disqualified from the prizes, as is every subsequent card that year which is delivered when in a group outside their window.


It is punitive, and it all break a few hearts and raise a few tempers. But I guarantee that after a season in operation, the club culture would change towards playing at an appropriate pace. The majority would actually be able to enforce their will upon the minority.

Uncle Ben

I find that a drive sent down amongst the offending party almost always has the desired effect. Mind you, I do make sure that they have lost the 1 full hole before I let fly. Etiquette and all that stuff:D

soundsham

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/blogs/golf-editors/2012/01/heres-a-slow-play-memo-you-mig.html
From Golfers Digest

acejeff

Main problem with slow play is people taking themselves too seriously, watching too much professional golf on television and thinking they should emulate their favourite pros in every mannerism, pre shot routine and detailed reconnaisance mission to map out the lie of the land prior to selecting a club for each and every shot.

Gophur

acejeff wrote: »

Main problem with slow play is people taking themselves too seriously, watching too much professional golf on television and thinking they should emulate their favourite pros in every mannerism, pre shot routine and detailed reconnaisance mission to map out the lie of the land prior to selecting a club for each and every shot.

That's not true. Some people just take too much time over every shot.

This debate was had before and I was vilified for suggesting that higher handicap, by virtue of them taking more shots per round, contributed to slow play. Putting three 20+ golfers out together, for example, is a recipe for disaster.

You also have the people for whom the round is their weekly social outing, for whom there is no hurry.

Impatient golfers are, TBH, a right pain in the neck. Sometimes they are justified, sometimes they are not.

acejeff

Gophur wrote: »

That's not true. Some people just take too much time over every shot.

QUOTE]

This is pretty much the point I was making!!

Gophur

acejeff wrote: »

Gophur wrote: »

That's not true. Some people just take too much time over every shot.

QUOTE]

This is pretty much the point I was making!!

But to blame it on people observing professional golfers on TV is not true.

BoardsMember

There's all sorts of reasons for slow play. Both high and low handicappers can be slow. Both men and women can be slow. young and old etc.

There's always lots of bright ideas for resolving slow play, but rarely are the successful. We tried putting a ranger on the course and it probably was counter productive. You cant penalise people who are in a slow three ball who themselves arent slow. If they happen to be with two other slow people a few weeks in a row its not fair to ban them. Nor can you expect one person in a three ball to be in charge of their pace. It is something we are all responsible for ourselves.

There is no simple solution, no easy fix, as far as I am aware of. You can have all the data you want at your fingertips. Implementing a solution is the hard part. Of course there are obvious steps that you can take - known slow players cant play before a certain time. But most of these are not fair.

I'd be really interested to hear of any club that has put in measures that have been effective over time.

acejeff

Gophur wrote: »

acejeff wrote: »

But to blame it on people observing professional golfers on TV is not true.

It's called an observation.

FixdePitchmark

Are you watching Jason Day. Should be called Jason All Day.

Goldenjohn

Just watching the highlights and they said he took 3 and a half minutes to take a tee shot today On the 11th and its not even on a par 3. They should have taken his clubs off him and thrown him off the course.....the spectators(if there were any) were probably asleep by the time he hit.

PRAF

Agree that slow play is a problem. I think the solution is having some basic self awareness, being ready to hit your shot when its your turn, and playing in a steady, efficient manner.

However, golf is not a race. An equal if not bigger problem I see are guys racing around the course, not raking their bunkers, not replacing divots, never repairing their pitch marks, throwing their rubbish around the place rather than walking over to the bin, playing out of turn, racing to the next teebox before their playing partners have holed out etc.

Mr. Larson

FML, watching Jason Day is like watching paint dry- big long conversation back and forward with the caddy and 5 or 6 practice swings for a 90 wedge shot.

Whyner

Put them on the clock then 2 shot penalty. I reckon something will be done soon enough, seems like a lot of people are giving out. Just talking about the pros here.

GreeBo

Whyner wrote: »

Put them on the clock then 2 shot penalty. I reckon something will be done soon enough, seems like a lot of people are giving out. Just talking about the pros here.

Hit them where it hurts.
And in fact I wouldnt let them know they are on the clock, I would just penalise them at the end of the round if they were found to be slow.
I think if you put them on the clock then they will just be slow anytime they are not on the clock. They need to be trained to just bloody play faster.

BillyBoy

Have to say it was painful watching Day yesterday. I think the lad is a very talented golfer and he was won me a fair bit of money, but don't like that he takes so long. However I think I heard the commentator mention yesterday that they were keeping up with the group in front, had to wait on a couple of holes for them to finish on greens etc (was half listening so could be wrong here). It raises the question, can you be called slow if you are keeping up with the group in front (even though you take 10 mins every shot!!)? Not defending him, it just popped into my mind when reading this thread.

Oh and for the record I think they should start fining them left, right and centre, pros should not take that bloody long to play a round of golf!!

Whyner

How come they used the clock previously? I haven't heard of anyone being put on it recently and players nowadays are just as slow if not slower

Loire

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/02/06/3714516/golfer-stabbed-at-eagle-mountain.html

:eek:

Luckycharm

GreeBo wrote: »

Hit them where it hurts.
And in fact I wouldnt let them know they are on the clock, I would just penalise them at the end of the round if they were found to be slow.
I think if you put them on the clock then they will just be slow anytime they are not on the clock. They need to be trained to just bloody play faster.

Well there are few people in our course who need to be penalised every round- the worst are the lads who have played the course thousands of times yet still spend 2 mins lining up that 1ft putt.
The worst though are the women twice in the last year I have stuck behind a womans 4 ball literally standing behind then every fairway and them having no notion to let us through. Worst was on the 7th last year standing for 5 mins while they looked for their balls in the tree when they eventually finished they had 4 individual toilet breaks and still leave us through :mad:

BoardsMember

I have to say that the women in our place tend to be flyers, and put the men to shame.

golfnut1

A small bit of tolerance would go a long way.
Tolerance for the high guy who is starting off. Tolerance for the low guy who is trying to improve. Tolerance for the kids that don't know they are meant to call through. Tolerance for the old fellow who's hips aren't what they use to be. And tolerance for the women that need to use the toilet as they can't just use a tree to piss behind.
Far better game if we all were just more tolerant.
It's not a bloody race.

paulos53

I was reading an article yesterday about the slow play of the pros and it said that the last one shot penalty for slow play on the PGA Tour was 20 years ago.
The player in question is now a tour rules official

golfwallah

A lot of people who complain about slow play are in 2 and 3 balls (even though 4 names are booked on their timeslot), don’t replace their divots, never repair pitch marks and throw rubbish around the course.
They are then in a mad rush to finish their game and complain about the four ball in front, who have all turned up as booked on the timesheet and observe golf etiquette as regards divots, pitch marks, rubbish, etc.
The same people will also be heard complaining about lady golfers.
As previous posters have said, it’s not a race .... these guys need to calm down, have a bit of tolerance and make sure they are doing their own bit as club members.

nocal

Excellent post golfnut1.
Some tolerance would go a long long way.

Not related to slow play but I read the letter on the following link today

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/2/6/play-a-game-that-you-want-to-play.html

It struck a chord with me as a nice reminder to make the most of the time that I am fortunate enough to be out on the course.

Corkblowin

nocal wrote: »

Excellent post golfnut1.
Some tolerance would go a long long way.

Not related to slow play but I read the letter on the following link today

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2012/2/6/play-a-game-that-you-want-to-play.html

It struck a chord with me as a nice reminder to make the most of the time that I am fortunate enough to be out on the course.

Great link nocal - strikes a chord with me too as I've been ill since last August & haven't been able to swing a club in that time - nor will I for the foreseeable future - you can be damn sure I'll enjoy setting foot on the first tee again & to hell with trying to play to my handicap -- just have a blast!!!

BoardsMember

Corkblowin wrote: »

Great link nocal - strikes a chord with me too as I've been ill since last August & haven't been able to swing a club in that time - nor will I for the foreseeable future - you can be damn sure I'll enjoy setting foot on the first tee again & to hell with trying to play to my handicap -- just have a blast!!!

Great link indeed, sorry to hear you're not well Corkblowin.

In general, golf courses are pretty attractive surroundings, and time on courses is "me" time. I'm mid thirties and I have to say that I appreciate it so much when I get the opportunity to play.

Even if people cant grasp the sentiment of this letter, it actually helps your golf if you can relax and enjoy it all.

GreeBo

While I totally agree with the sentiment of that letter, I completely disagree that people should be allowed to waft around the course enjoying the beauty in the middle of a Saturday comp and holding people up...
Casual/Sunday golf is designed for this.

Webbs

Still it could be a lot worse than a few choice words about slow play !!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/golf-devil-ball-golf/golfer-stabbed-leg-trying-play-163539055.html

golfnut1

GreeBo wrote: »

While I totally agree with the sentiment of that letter, I completely disagree that people should be allowed to waft around the course enjoying the beauty in the middle of a Saturday comp and holding people up...
Casual/Sunday golf is designed for this.

I think the real point is whatever it is you regard as slow play it is here to stay so you might aswell embrace it and not let it bother you. If your worrying about others on the course your not totally focused on your game. That's the way I look at it. I can't do anything about it so I'm not going to let it effect me

stringy

The perils of slow play, beware! Man Impaled With Golf Club: victim Faces Leg Amputation http://huff.to/wnlGCk

Luckycharm

golfnut1 wrote: »

I think the real point is whatever it is you regard as slow play it is here to stay so you might aswell embrace it and not let it bother you. If your worrying about others on the course your not totally focused on your game. That's the way I look at it. I can't do anything about it so I'm not going to let it effect me

I think Greenbo's point is no one enjoys standing on every hole waiting to hit a shot when People should have the good grace to let you through if they have lost a hole. I am not talking racing around the course - I am not a great golfer far from it but I don't dawdle between my poor shots and take 20 practise swings or 10 minutes lining up that 1ft pt from every angle. It is unfair on everyone else on the course to be held up by players who do the above and as we all know it is pretty much the same people each week.

thewobbler

There is, in all things, an acceptable limit.

I've no problem with hackers being on a course, everyone has to learn. I don't even mind them finishing out a hole with their 23rd stroke. But the trade off is that they shouldn't have the right to dawdle between shots. They should learn simple ettiquette about being in the right place at the right time, before going out on a course.

I've no problem with a guy lining up a 30 foot putt for 3 minutes, he is entitled to do so, and it can only help his scoring. But the trade off should be that by the time he gets to the next tee, he has glove on, ball in hand, and tee ready to place.

I've no problem with a guy looking for his ball for the allotted 5 minutes. That's his right, and it could save his scorecard. But if he has already lost 2 balls in this round, and still refuses to wave through the group behind, then he is actually singularly responsible for causing a jam on a golf course. And this is a deliberate decision.

I've no problem with a guy pulling out a laser for drives on a new hole. I do have a problem if, every week, regardless of what the laser says, he applies the same strategy with the same club. That's just taking the piss.

I've no problem with a relaxed pace, and every golfer has a right to enjoy the views. But if you're guilty of that, along with the indiscretions above, then you're not "with it", you're just a selfish person.

golfnut1

Luckycharm wrote: »

golfnut1 wrote: »

I think the real point is whatever it is you regard as slow play it is here to stay so you might aswell embrace it and not let it bother you. If your worrying about others on the course your not totally focused on your game. That's the way I look at it. I can't do anything about it so I'm not going to let it effect me

I think Greenbo's point is no one enjoys standing on every hole waiting to hit a shot when People should have the good grace to let you through if they have lost a hole. I am not talking racing around the course - I am not a great golfer far from it but I don't dawdle between my poor shots and take 20 practise swings or 10 minutes lining up that 1ft pt from every angle. It is unfair on everyone else on the course to be held up by players who do the above and as we all know it is pretty much the same people each week.

Yeah of course play as efficiently as you can but some people can't play golf as fast as others so should they not be accommodated? The pace of golf should not be dictated by the fastest players. Most courses will have a sign up after 9 holes "you should be here in x amont of time" as long as you are in or around that that's fine. Often I have played with guys who are ranting and raving about slow play and then I point out to them we are exactly bang on time.

FixdePitchmark

golfnut1 wrote: »

Yeah of course play as efficiently as you can but some people can't play golf as fast as others so should they not be accommodated? The pace of golf should not be dictated by the fastest players. Most courses will have a sign up after 9 holes "you should be here in x amont of time" as long as you are in or around that that's fine. Often I have played with guys who are ranting and raving about slow play and then I point out to them we are exactly bang on time.

Fair enough,

But there are some going on here as if we can all go on for as long as we like.

Golf is too long as it is , 3hr 45mins to 4 hours is were we should be.

Over 4 hours the game is just too long for most , who have other things in their life.

Redzah

thewobbler wrote: »

I don't even mind them finishing out a hole with their 23rd stroke. But the trade off is that they shouldn't have the right to dawdle between shots. They should learn simple ettiquette about being in the right place at the right time, before going out on a course.

I've no problem with a guy lining up a 30 foot putt for 3 minutes, he is entitled to do so, and it can only help his scoring. But the trade off should be that by the time he gets to the next tee, he has glove on, ball in hand, and tee ready to place.

I do have a problem with these 2 points.

On the first one, (unless it is a strokeplay competition) the ball should be picked up once out of the hole. A hacker will learn to play a hole in the alloted shots in and can practice the other 23 on the range. Not hit 23 shots on a hole.

On the 2nd point, 3 mins to line up a putt once it is your turn to play is very excessive and most likely counter productive as that level of analysation normally results in the player looking for breaks that are not there. A putt should be lined up while others are putting and once it is your turn you should be ready to go through your pre putt routine. 3 mins for each 30 foot putt in a fourball gives 12 mins. Then assuming all are missed as 30 foot putts have about a 1/10 ratio (for professionals), you can add another 2 mins each for the 2/3 footers if they are that slow. 20 mins on a green is ludacris.

I am neither a quick player nor a slow player but 23 shots or 3 mins to line up a putt is excessive slow play in my opinion

The_Kew_Tour

BoardsMember wrote: »

I have to say that the women in our place tend to be flyers, and put the men to shame.

Have to say the same as you. Taking away maybe a few that are slow, but at least they wave you through unlike some men who think they own the course.

nocal

IMO one of the biggest culprits of slow play are some of the seasoned experienced golfers. The ones who will not give their playing partners the courtesy of being still and quiet while they are taking shots, the ones who play their shot and walk - so after a few steps you have to ask them if they could stand back a little as they are directly in your line to the green, the ones who insist on chatting away on the tee-box when they should be playing their own shot, the ones who start a loud conversation with their mates on the adjoining fairway just as you are addressing the ball.

I played a round last year with people who were giving out about slow play - the fourball took us 3 hours 45 minutes or 50 minutes....Slow???

Slow Play being a big problem seems to be embedded in golf culture and this makes it an issue even when it is not actually an issue.

I do agree that no group should be waiting on every single shot but on the other hand every group should take in the bigger picture - if you end up waiting on the occasional shot - well so be it. If you complete your round in a reasonable time (or close enough) then accept that also.

Keano

Speaking of slow play...

The problem of slow play on the golf course has taken a turn for the sinister in America after a Texas golfer was stabbed in the leg with the shaft of a broken golf club following a verbal altercation with a member of the group ahead.

The 48-year-old victim, Clay Carpenter, who may lose his right leg following the incident in Fort Worth on January 27, suffered a punctured femoral artery resulting in serious blood loss, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram.

Carpenter and his two playing partners had asked to play through the fourball ahead of them due to their pace of play, before the victim alleged he was confronted by one of the men. A verbal attack turned physical, resulting in the pair scuffling on the fairway.

Carpenter confirmed another man in the fourball then used a broken golf club as a weapon to stab him twice in the leg with the shaft.

GreeBo

golfnut1 wrote: »

I think the real point is whatever it is you regard as slow play it is here to stay so you might aswell embrace it and not let it bother you. If your worrying about others on the course your not totally focused on your game. That's the way I look at it. I can't do anything about it so I'm not going to let it effect me

You could say the same thing about slavery, Nazis, AIDS and many other things that are negative in the world...Im not sure apathy is a solution.

golfnut1

GreeBo wrote: »

golfnut1 wrote: »

I think the real point is whatever it is you regard as slow play it is here to stay so you might aswell embrace it and not let it bother you. If your worrying about others on the course your not totally focused on your game. That's the way I look at it. I can't do anything about it so I'm not going to let it effect me

You could say the same thing about slavery, Nazis, AIDS and many other things that are negative in the world...Im not sure apathy is a solution.

OK......well I never looked at it like that before!!....cheers greboo.

nocal

I remember thinking about this before....

by my reckoning, a 4 ball that averages 85 shots a round and 30 seconds per shot will take 170 minutes (2 hours 50 minutes in the metric system )to actually take all their shots.

It takes about 30 seconds to grip a club, take a stance, take a practise swing, address the ball, take a shot and watch it sail majestically to your intended target. This is doing all of this at a steady pace - rather than completely rushed and without being too slow.

Not all shots will take 30 seconds (e.g. a tap in putt) but some might take longer - a bunker shot, tricky lie etc.

So anything that regularly pushes this "30 seconds per shot" out will inevitably result in slow play (e.g. any carry on that slows down the next player who is about to play, taking 4 or 5 practise swings, changing clubs, taking forever to re-assess the shot, backing off it, walking onto the next shot etc.)

If each player was to take 1 minute per shot then the action of taking all shots would take 5 hours and 40 minutes.

FixdePitchmark

nocal wrote: »

I remember thinking about this before....

by my reckoning, a 4 ball that averages 85 shots a round and 30 seconds per shot will take 170 minutes (2 hours 50 minutes in the metric system )to actually take all their shots.

It takes about 30 seconds to grip a club, take a stance, take a practise swing, address the ball, take a shot and watch it sail majestically to your intended target. This is doing all of this at a steady pace - rather than completely rushed and without being too slow.

Not all shots will take 30 seconds (e.g. a tap in putt) but some might take longer - a bunker shot, tricky lie etc.

So anything that regularly pushes this "30 seconds per shot" out will inevitably result in slow play (e.g. any carry on that slows down the next player who is about to play, taking 4 or 5 practise swings, changing clubs, taking forever to re-assess the shot, backing off it, walking onto the next shot etc.)

If each player was to take 1 minute per shot then the action of taking all shots would take 5 hours and 40 minutes.

I'll add to that a good Dublin saying, if my granny had balls she would be my grandda.

No, fair play, did you consider actual walking time for the average course ? I guees 3 ball searchings, two cokes and a piss