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That just doesn't make sense!

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    #92
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v882.asp

    he mentions it here in the review of 'waking moments'
    I emailed him too and he said cathexis showed it.. but i cant find his review for that, and I wont have time to watch it until tomorrow

    he seems pretty certain that the ship monitors their brainwaves at all times there, but it seems to me from the way he said it that he's referencing one of his own reviews.. and I do think I saw it on one of his reviews.. but no cathexis review there..


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    #93
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »
    http://sfdebris.com/videos/startrek/v882.asp

    he mentions it here in the review of 'waking moments'
    I emailed him too and he said cathexis showed it.. but i cant find his review for that, and I wont have time to watch it until tomorrow

    he seems pretty certain that the ship monitors their brainwaves at all times there, but it seems to me from the way he said it that he's referencing one of his own reviews.. and I do think I saw it on one of his reviews.. but no cathexis review there..

    I applaud the hunt :)

    For me that link is difficult viewing, I lasted 4 mins & had to stop {american armchair reviewer humour really bores me} I'll trust your judgement on that one & agree it's likely one of his own views. I've had a poke around the web myself, like you I can see opinions etc on it I just can't find it in cannon...I'll keep looking...


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    #94
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,668 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Why is it that altering the past in First Contact, affects & changes the current timeline - and altering the past in the newest film, creates a new timeline & leaves the old one still existing?

    Because alternate timelines don't make for good drama.

    PICARD: They're creating a temporal vortex.
    RIKER: Time travel!
    (the Enterprise suffers a shockwave)
    PICARD: Data, report!
    DATA: We appear to be caught in a temporal wake.
    WORF: Captain, ...Earth.

    DATA: Everything looks normal, sir.
    RIKER: Wait, if the Borg went back in time and assimilated Earth, shouldn't the whole planet be Borg?
    DATA: Whatever changes they made in the past probably resulted in the creation of an entirely new timeline, separate from our own.
    PICARD: We must follow them back. Repair whatever damage they've— Uh? Oh, okay. Well, that's grand so. Mr Hawk, set course for Risa! I think we've earned ourselves some shore leave. The other timeline can take care of itself.


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    #95
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    ^
    :pac:

    Two hours of scantily clad risan women would have also been a good film though...


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    #96
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,556 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    Because alternate timelines don't make for good drama.

    PICARD: They're creating a temporal vortex.
    RIKER: Time travel!
    (the Enterprise suffers a shockwave)
    PICARD: Data, report!
    DATA: We appear to be caught in a temporal wake.
    WORF: Captain, ...Earth.

    DATA: Everything looks normal, sir.
    RIKER: Wait, if the Borg went back in time and assimilated Earth, shouldn't the whole planet be Borg?
    DATA: Whatever changes they made in the past probably resulted in the creation of an entirely new timeline, separate from our own.
    PICARD: We must follow them back. Repair whatever damage they've— Uh? Oh, okay. Well, that's grand so. Mr Hawk, set course for Risa! I think we've earned ourselves some shore leave. The other timeline can take care of itself.


    yeah its kinda like needing a tiny tiny amount of red matter but carrying a lorry load of it around, or a star exploding which can destroy the entire galaxy or r2d2 repairing a federation ship.. things like this just turn a **** movie into an excellent summer blockbuster


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    #97
    Ferrakins
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Ferrakins


    i used to wonder who did their hair but then after a while i guessed they just went to the holodeck

    one thing i cant figure out is, at the end of voyager, when the sphere comes out of the transwarp conduit just at earth - if the borg had one of these all along, why didnt they just send a hundred cubes through it and assimilate the planet before?


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    #98
    al28283
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭al28283


    Considering the amount of security breachs, Worf should have been fired a long, long time ago. I'd love to see his record but he is a terrible securty chief


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    #99
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Ferrakins wrote: »
    i used to wonder who did their hair but then after a while i guessed they just went to the holodeck
    they show a hairdresser in one ep of TNG don't they, Bolian? Also Picard pretends to be one in that Barrion Sweep episode iirc.

    All that hair would make a terrible mess of the holodeck and we're yet to see any little robo-sweeper or anything about. Actually, how do they keep the corridors so clean all the time?

    one thing i cant figure out is, at the end of voyager, when the sphere comes out of the transwarp conduit just at earth - if the borg had one of these all along, why didnt they just send a hundred cubes through it and assimilate the planet before?

    wouldn't make for a very good episode. First two mins, big fire fight as cubes emerge, lots of dying, then the next 43 or so mins of the Borg assimilating everything and ending trek ;)


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    #100
    Simi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,865 ✭✭✭Simi


    Ferrakins wrote: »
    i used to wonder who did their hair but then after a while i guessed they just went to the holodeck

    one thing i cant figure out is, at the end of voyager, when the sphere comes out of the transwarp conduit just at earth - if the borg had one of these all along, why didnt they just send a hundred cubes through it and assimilate the planet before?

    There was an episode showing Picard getting a hair cut.

    As for the voyager finale, it's best not to think about it. It's just terrible. They killed the franchise long before enterprise could.


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    #101
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Yeah I think his name was Mot, we also see Worf getting his hair cut in Schisms...when he reacts to the blades up near his face.

    That Borg question has been asked many times before, one can only deduce that assimilating Earth just isn't a big priority for the Collective. It's hard to really believe that though, because two Cubes would have been more than enough. It's one of the things that actually doesn't really make sense, & the writers created this problem for themselves


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    #102
    Kiith
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    Simi wrote: »
    There was an episode showing Picard getting a hair cut.

    Must have been a pretty short episode :pac:


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    #103
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Voyager and the Borg....*sighs*

    At least with TNG, you didn't know how many cubes they had, or terrority.


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    #104
    downwithpeace
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭downwithpeace


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Voyager and the Borg....*sighs*

    At least with TNG, you didn't know how many cubes they had, or terrority.

    Voyager neutered the Borg, from big scary machine men to Swedes in name.


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    #105
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Voyager and the Borg....*sighs*

    At least with TNG, you didn't know how many cubes they had, or terrority.

    Exactly, the scariest enemy is the one you know bearly anything about!

    Q-Who was a masterpiece in atmosphere


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    #106
    GreenWolfe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭GreenWolfe


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Exactly, the scariest enemy is the one you know bearly anything about!

    Q-Who was a masterpiece in atmosphere

    Species 8472 were a missed opportunity to give all of the quadrants a new enemy as well. What a shame that was neutered in one episode of Voyager too. :(


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    #107
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    EarthlyPangaea wrote: »
    Species 8472 were a missed opportunity to give all of the quadrants a new enemy as well. What a shame that was neutered in one episode of Voyager too. :(



    Yeah.. 8472 were awesome and then they made friends :confused::confused:


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    #108
    Supermensch
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭Supermensch


    The episode Genesis from The Next Generation. When I saw the fully-formed iguana that supposedly was Data's cat after 2 days of devolution I laughed.


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    #109
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    EnterNow wrote: »
    Why is it that altering the past in First Contact, affects & changes the current timeline - and altering the past in the newest film, creates a new timeline & leaves the old one still existing?

    On this (and I know it was discussed in the thread covering the new film) but was it ever mentioned in the film, or book, or comic or anything else that could be seen as canon, that the existing timeline survived? Or is it just an assumption based on a combination of physics theory and a hope that Abrams wouldn't be so arrogant as to rub out 45 years of film and TV?


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    #110
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Beefy78 wrote: »
    On this (and I know it was discussed in the thread covering the new film) but was it ever mentioned in the film, or book, or comic or anything else that could be seen as canon, that the existing timeline survived? Or is it just an assumption based on a combination of physics theory and a hope that Abrams wouldn't be so arrogant as to rub out 45 years of film and TV?

    I refuse to subscribe to believing 45 years of cannon was wiped out. Abrams can fugg right off tbh.


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    #111
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    But surely using what Trek have established time and time again with First Contact, and numerous TV episodes, from Trials & Tribbleations, the Past Tense two parter, Children of Time, right back to The City on The Edge of Forever that is exactly what he did. That's exactly the issue I had with the film leaving the cinema and despite reading lots of people talk about alternate timelines and what have you I've never been able to get on board with it.


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    #112
    filmbuffboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 894 ✭✭✭filmbuffboy


    Didnt Abrams making Vulcan now non existant essentially prove he was arrogant enough to discount 45 years of star trek history?

    dont get me wrong, I love the new film. Given the state the franchise was in, I welcome it. But at the same time I cant help but be annoyed at the total disregard for a timeline which I grew up with and pretty much know back to front


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    #113
    somuj
    Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭somuj


    Did anyone even watch the dreadful film. The original timeline still exists. JJ's dirt film is in an alternate timeline as explained by spock.


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    #114
    somuj
    Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭somuj


    Did anyone even watch the dreadful film. The original timeline still exists. JJ's dirt film is in an alternate timeline as explained by spock.


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    #115
    Goldstein
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭Goldstein


    filmbuffboy wrote: »
    Didnt Abrams making Vulcan now non existant essentially prove he was arrogant enough to discount 45 years of star trek history?

    dont get me wrong, I love the new film. Given the state the franchise was in, I welcome it. But at the same time I cant help but be annoyed at the total disregard for a timeline which I grew up with and pretty much know back to front

    ST 2009 is set in an alternate universe. I wouldn't even regard any information about the Star Trek universe contained in it as canon either (Romulan star randomly going nova for example). You'd think the millions of years of stellar expansion would have tipped them off. :pac:


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    #116
    filmbuffboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 894 ✭✭✭filmbuffboy


    Goldstein wrote: »
    ST 2009 is set in an alternate universe. I wouldn't even regard any information about the Star Trek universe contained in it as canon either (Romulan star randomly going nova for example). You'd think the millions of years of stellar expansion would have tipped them off. :pac:

    but thats just the problem. going forward, with another movie on the way and new individuals at the helm of what is star trek for the forseeable future, how are we to separate canon from 2009 star trek onwards? Personally, I find it very hard to do.


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    #117
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    somuj wrote: »
    Did anyone even watch the dreadful film. The original timeline still exists. JJ's dirt film is in an alternate timeline as explained by spock.

    Yeah, but the Spock from the established timeline crossed over into JJ's timeline & told of how the galaxy was effectively destroyed or something. Total nonsense. Still, it made for a semi-decent sci-fi action film...it just happened to have the words Star Trek stuck onto it


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    #118
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    somuj wrote: »
    Did anyone even watch the dreadful film. The original timeline still exists. JJ's dirt film is in an alternate timeline as explained by spock.

    When did Spock explain that? He explained how he went back in time and altered the timeline but I didn't catch anything to say that he was claiming the original timeline still existed.


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    #119
    Kiith
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    It's definitely an alternate timeline. As soon as the Narada/Spock went through the wormhole, they created a alternate timeline in a 'new' universe.

    1. Where everything we know from the previous 45 years happened, as well as Romulus being destroyed and Spock disappearing into a Black Hole.

    2. The new JJ timeline, with everything that happened in the movie. I'm actually interested in seeing how these changes effect the universe, though we may never get a good sense of just how much changed.

    Universe 2 is probably going to be the 'main' timeline from now on, unless someone manages to get the rights to do a new series down the line.


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    #120
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    But what are you basing that on as that contradicts pretty much every previous Trek episode and film involving time travel? That simply isn't how Trek have established how time travel works and, more importantly, it's not how Back to the Future established how time travel works :)


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    #121
    Kiith
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    When do we ever see that it's not how it works like that though? Just because our crew get back to the main timeline, doesn't mean that the alternate timeline didn't continue without them.

    Doesn't Parallels in TNG show that pretty much every possible universe exists together, we just usually don't have any interaction with it?

    Who knows, in a possible alternate universe, i'm captain of the Enterprise :P


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