Is Sinn Fein a Cult?

MisterEpicurus

It's fairly common to hear criticisms of FF and FG and so forth, but I think the worst members of the Dail are actually Sinn Fein. I usually refer to them as 'The Cult of Sinn Fein'

Why a cult?

Because they fulfil almost every definition of a cult; (Using definitions from Wiki)

- Mind Control: Essentially the propaganda of a biased version of history and hatred of British. They meet regularly like a Nuremburg Rally with people like Adams being the Goebbels of the whole operation. The constant reinforcement of a highly prejudiced anti-British stance. Any comment that seemingly supports the British in any way, shape or form results in being permanently labelled a 'West-Brit'. It's like excommunication if you do this.
- Potential for Harm: We all know the links between Sinn Fein and the IRA. The advocates of Sinn Fein usually seem obsessed with fighting, war, the use of the phrase 'one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter'. I always maintain these individuals are both, but the terrorism aspect gets to me somehow.
- Methods of Psychological Manipulation for Joining: Well advertised, I don't need to expound further.
- Leaving: Usually members will never leave due to this psychological conditioning. And from my experience, they have a tendency to doubt the crimes of other Socialists or Communists. For example, I once heard that Stalin didn't really kill all those people, the figures are 'grossly exaggerated'. But this logic never seems to apply to anyone outside Socialism and Communism.
- An almost creepy obsession with the USA and Israel.

The manipulation of people pretending they are acting for the minorities in the country, the continued lies and lies...everything about it.

Screams the word cult in my view.

They can't seem to forget the past and refuse to do so. Also, they are very selective of the history they learn from heart. I find the whole thing weird and creepy and almost feel sorry for the people who have been fooled into following. I'm certainly no advocate of FG/FF/Labour, but I think Sinn Fein deserve more criticism than they receive.

Done :rolleyes:

My name is URL

They can't seem to forget the past and refuse to do so.

Mildly ironic post is mildly ironic.

MisterEpicurus

My name is URL wrote: »

Mildly ironic post is mildly ironic.

I'll be shocked if anyone actually 'Thanks' that.

I'd be happy to take them seriously if they changed their ways, but they won't. To apply the same logic to me would mean you would never criticise anything.

:rolleyes:

Sindri

They used to hate the OIRA but they are socialists now.

Jesus Shaves

My name is URL wrote: »

Mildly ironic post is mildly ironic.

Thanks

El Weirdo

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

I'll be shocked if anyone actually 'Thanks' that.

How does it feel to be tazered?

RichieC

It's actually a political party.

Red_Wake

They also seem to recruit almost exclusively from the mentally and emotionally damaged.

k.p.h

You don't really have a clue do you.

Toby Take a Bow

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

Because they fulfil almost every definition of a cult; (Using definitions from Wiki)

A lot of that could surely be applied to the other parties, particularly FF (and to a lesser degree FG).

In terms of no capacity for change, SF have done a huge amount of changing over the years. I think in the mid 30s they were flirting with some fairly right-wing viewpoints on Jews and the like, and then shifted (possibly due to new members) towards the more hardline communist view in the 60s/70s and then shifted again towards the socialism-lite which we know them as today.

Also, regardless of their motivations for doing so, they've surely changed their opinion on the armed struggle with the Good Friday agreement.

MisterEpicurus

RichieC wrote: »

It's actually a political party.

Yup - all they have to do is change their name to 'Cult of Sinn Fein'...then it would be the accurate name for this political party. I think they shame politics to be perfectly honest.

Lets not forget they also create idol figures like Bobby Sands, who in my view, it overrated and anyhow, documents recently show a different Sands,...Shifting Sands if you will...

MisterEpicurus

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

A lot of that could surely be applied to the other parties, particularly FF (and to a lesser degree FG).

In terms of no capacity for change, SF have done a huge amount of changing over the years. I think in the mid 30s they were flirting with some fairly right-wing viewpoints on Jews and the like, and then shifted (possibly due to new members) towards the more hardline communist view in the 60s/70s and then shifted again towards the socialism-lite which we know them as today.

Also, regardless of their motivations for doing so, they've surely changed their opinion on the armed struggle with the Good Friday agreement.

That would be the creepy change to stay in power, analogous to the Catholic Church's stances changing over the years to maintain public support. Chameleons at best...

Notorious97

I dont see how i have 'been fooled' into anything, I vote for SF, I am aware of all of history, some i am very proud of, some I can say should not have happened at all.

I could apply some of the cult logic to the anti-irish anti-SF ranting that is done on a daily basis in Ireland and on this forum.

This thread has been done to death on here, but again I have no problem to say I make it my business to read all sides and accounts of history im interested in, and at the end of the day I can say I am proud of Sinn Féin, plenty of people arent and thats their opinion, If we all thought the same sure the world would be boring!

Immaculate Pasta

Come on OP.

Who could not love our Gerry?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00145/adams_joke_2_145362g.jpg

:cool:

The Waltzing Consumer

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

Yup - all they have to do is change their name to 'Cult of Sinn Fein'...then it would be the accurate name for this political party. I think they shame politics to be perfectly honest.

Lets not forget they also create idol figures like Bobby Sands, who in my view, it overrated and anyhow, documents recently show a different Sands,...Shifting Sands if you will...

I don't get the overrrated comment It's not like he was a film or album.

But yeah, don't like SF, but they are getting better with the younger members coming through the ranks, they are also the number one party with a web presence in my opinion, hence why you will probably get a lot of criticism here

wolfpawnat

So let me get this straight, if you are not a member of FF or FG your in a cult??? Surely people are entitled to their own political beliefs without moronic accusations of cult membership! Last I checked you can join and leave SF at your own leisure

As for the "Potential for Harm" need I remind you that the only Political Parties in this country that did not have an armed link were the Greens and the PD's and well lets face it, they are dead and gone. Read a half well written history book for the love of God and educate yourself!!!!!

And for the record I am in no way tied to ANY political party!

im invisible

a bunch of cults

MisterEpicurus

Immaculate Pasta wrote: »

Come on OP.

Who could not love our Gerry?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00145/adams_joke_2_145362g.jpg

:cool:

No, I think he's a liar, an idiot and a toxic substance of the Dail.

My name is URL

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

I'll be shocked if anyone actually 'Thanks' that.

I'd be happy to take them seriously if they changed their ways, but they won't. To apply the same logic to me would mean you would never criticise anything.

:rolleyes:

Well that seems to be the case already. You can't criticise anything because those in favor of an alternative have some questionable histories.

They have changed their ways. Seriously, I'm no huge fan of SF and despise the histories of some of its members, but they have moved on. They're a democratically elected party ffs, and have embraced peace and denounced any recent republican violence. What do you want 'them' (the party as a whole) to do exactly?

RichieC

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

RichieC wrote: »

It's actually a political party.

Yup - all they have to do is change their name to 'Cult of Sinn Fein'...then it would be the accurate name for this political party. I think they shame politics to be perfectly honest.

Lets not forget they also create idol figures like Bobby Sands, who in my view, it overrated and anyhow, documents recently show a different Sands,...Shifting Sands if you will...

So basically youre just in here grinding your axe and stirring ****. Why didnt post this in politics? oh right, because its a terribly low quality post that would be locked in minutes.

Btw im neither a member nor a supporter.

Jesus Shaves

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

No, I think he's a liar, an idiot and a toxic substance of the Dail.

Enda Kenny?

MisterEpicurus

wolfpawnat wrote: »

So let me get this straight, if you are not a member of FF or FG your in a cult??? Surely people are entitled to their own political beliefs without moronic accusations of cult membership! Last I checked you can join and leave SF at your own leisure

As for the "Potential for Harm" need I remind you that the only Political Parties in this country that did not have an armed link were the Greens and the PD's and well lets face it, they are dead and gone. Read a half well written history book for the love of God and educate yourself!!!!!

And for the record I am in no way tied to ANY political party!

Yup - I know the ties of FF/FG with violence like most educated people do.

And I never said if you're not in FF/FG you're in a cult...never said it.

I'm informed well of Irish history, I'm merely pointing to the attitudes and current 'persona' they are proud of. Also, the leaders of this cult don't appear apologetic when asked about certain horrendous circumstances. The anti-British rhetoric is sickening in itself. There's a big difference between the two. It's the proudness, defensiveness today that I'm challenging and I would do the same with FG if it was years back to.

Doc Ruby

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

No, I think he's a liar, an idiot and a toxic substance of the Dail.

Just out of interest, I am not a shinner, never have voted for them and never will, but are you a unionist?

Lawrence1895

darokane wrote: »

Enda Kenny?

...or Richard Bruton?

MisterEpicurus

darokane wrote: »

Enda Kenny?

One of many, yup!

KeithAFC

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I don't get the overrrated comment It's not like he was a film or album.

But yeah, don't like SF, but they are getting better with the younger members coming through the ranks, they are also the number one party with a web presence in my opinion, hence why you will probably get a lot of criticism here

That is exactly what Bobby Sands has become. A propaganda tool, a person who film industries are interested in. He died just so prisoners could wear their own clothes. Would not know that the way Sinn Fein go on about him. As if he led an army full of soldiers over the trenches.

MisterEpicurus

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Just out of interest, I am not a shinner, never have voted for them and never will, but are you a unionist?

I'm not and never was a Unionist no. :-)

k.p.h

Yeah OP, I think this was your take at a bit of satirical humor and fair play for giving it a go but alas it just looks a bit ...

The Waltzing Consumer

KeithAFC wrote: »

That is exactly what Bobby Sands has become. A propaganda tool, a person who film industries are interested in. He died just so prisoners could wear their own clothes. Would not know that the way Sinn Fein go on about him. As if he led an army full of soldiers over the trenches.

Ah it's nothing new Keith, every political party or "cause" always has a propaganda hero. I don't think Sands would have been a fan of SF though based on all those classified files released under the 30 year rule.

MisterEpicurus

k.p.h wrote: »

Yeah OP, I think this was your take at a bit of satirical humor and fair play for giving it a go but alas it just looks a bit ...

I'm actually not trying to stir s*h*1*t, I'm very critical of the prevailing attitudes of them. For example, many times you'll hear them criticise 'outside the box' as it were, but when together usually rehash said s*h*1*t; be it anti-British/USA/Israeli rhetoric, or trying to dilute the crimes committed by current communist/socialist dictatorships past and present. Even North Korea for crying out loud. [ I can't label EVERYONE with this, but I've been to many meetings to see what happens and so forth, and it was always the same, quite disgusting rhetoric at times tbh ]

I know I'm dressing it up as a cult, but the criticisms remain almost the same when you strip away this status.

Doc Ruby

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

I'm not and never was a Unionist no. :-)

I ask only because there are a half dozen unionist posters from Northern Ireland like Keith up above who participate in every one of these discussions and have nothing good to say about Ireland or the Irish, racists basically, preferring instead that their fantasy manifest destiny oppressing the rest of us be somehow realised.

So that wouldn't describe you?

KeithAFC

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Ah it's nothing new Keith, every political party or "cause" always has a propaganda hero. I don't think Sands would have been a fan of SF though based on all those classified files released under the 30 year rule.

Bobby Sands would be a dissident now. The sort of thing Sinn Fein now hate more than the British.

dinorebel

If any party in this country is a cult surely it would be FF what other explanation could there be for it still getting 15/20% in the polls.

RobbingBandit

What's up OP, did Celtic beat your favorite team or something?

MisterEpicurus

Doc Ruby wrote: »

I ask only because there are a half dozen unionist posters from Northern Ireland like Keith up above who participate in every one of these discussions and have nothing good to say about Ireland or the Irish, racists basically, preferring instead that their fantasy manifest destiny oppressing the rest of us be somehow realised.

So that wouldn't describe you?

Absolutely not - born and bred in this country and sorry to sound slightly patriotic but f*u*c*k*i*n*g love it! Hate to see what FF/FG have done to our country just as much as everyone else. I'd certainly never denigrate it to make it sound inferior to any other group, in fact, would proudly boast and defend it anytime, anywhere.

Hope that answers it.

My contentions are directly purely at the sewery scum losers that propagate absolute trite just to maintain what they believe, to be superiority of their party.

Icepick

They are national socialists.

MisterEpicurus

Icepick wrote: »

They are national socialists.

First cousins, or maybe inbred descendents

Nodin

Icepick wrote: »

They are national socialists.

..despite being left wing, anti-racist, pro-gay marriage.

MisterEpicurus

KeithAFC wrote: »

Bobby Sands would be a dissident now. The sort of thing Sinn Fein now hate more than the British.

Am I the only one that finds the deliberate hijacking of a dead person who must have suffered, for political gain slightly, if not, absolutely disgusting?

Nodin

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

First cousins, or maybe inbred descendents

I'm so glad you're here for a serious discussion, and not just throwing out abuse to get a reaction.

MisterEpicurus

Nodin wrote: »

I'm so glad you're here for a serious discussion, .

You came to After Hours for a serious discussion? More fool you... :rolleyes:

[Edit: Wonder how long it will take Notorious to 'Thank' your post :-) ]

Gee Bag

KeithAFC wrote: »

Bobby Sands would be a dissident now.

On what basis are you able to make an assertion like this? Is it guess work or do you have a ouija board?

KeithAFC

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

Am I the only one that finds the deliberate hijacking of a dead person who must have suffered, for political gain slightly, if not, absolutely disgusting?

That is Sinn Fein for you. It is well documented Sinn Fein allowed the last remaining hunger strikers to die as it was a fantastic propaganda opportunity.

Toby Take a Bow

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

That would be the creepy change to stay in power, analogous to the Catholic Church's stances changing over the years to maintain public support. Chameleons at best...

So they do change? This doesn't seem to hold with what you said when you said "They can't seem to forget the past and refuse to do so".

And a party changing its ideology over 70 years or so? Fairly common, I would've thought, especially seeing as they're a political party. See: democratic party and republican party, but especially see FF who seemed to hold many many different political ideologies all at the same time.

Nodin

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

You came to After Hours for a serious discussion? More fool you... :rolleyes:

[Edit: Wonder how long it will take Notorious to 'Thank' your post :-) ]

I don't come here to see baseless shite thrown out as fact, certainly.

Why didn't you start this in politics?

Toby Take a Bow

Nodin wrote: »

..despite being left wing, anti-racist, pro-gay marriage.

Our local councillor, while not national socialist, is worryingly right-wing for a supposed leftist party.

But yeah, most of SF would be leftist.

MisterEpicurus

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

So they do change? This doesn't seem to hold with what you said when you said "They can't seem to forget the past and refuse to do so".

It's not really change, because the essence of them remains the same. Allotropes if you want, changing forms of essentially the same substance. The essential fanaticism by which they operate is almost unchangeable. The anti-British/USA/Israeli rhetoric hasn't changed. The hijacking of dead people for propaganda hasn't changed. The leaders who support all this maintain the same views. A few minor changes don't really change anything.

MisterEpicurus

Nodin wrote: »

Why didn't you start this in politics?

None of your business

I'm happy here so leave me be

Gee Bag

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

Am I the only one that finds the deliberate hijacking of a dead person who must have suffered, for political gain slightly, if not, absolutely disgusting?

I don't understand how you can say Bobby Sands death was hijacked. The man conciously chose to accept a slow, terrible death to further the cause he believed in.

You don't have to be a shinner to admire someone with the courage to do that. I think it's perfectly acceptable that he and the other hunger strikers should be remembered.

Nodin

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

None of your business

I'm happy here so leave me be

....nothing to do with the fact that its total **** that would be locked in a heartbeat. You're probably suprised its been allowed here.

MisterEpicurus

Gee Bag wrote: »

I don't understand how you can say Bobby Sands death was hijacked. The man conciously chose to accept a slow, terrible death to further the cause he believed in.

You don't have to be a shinner to admire someone with the courage to do that. I think it's perfectly acceptable that he and the other hunger strikers should be remembered.

Of course people should be remembered, but what other political party goes on and on and on about it? Everyone remembers it, only one party hijacks it emotionally for political gain.

Moreover, I don't think suicide should be admired.