ethical conundrum

buggirl

My husband found a dog in the city centre today. He saw it walking in and out of traffic until it went into a shop. He followed it in and checked about for an owner but nobody claimed it. So he brought it home and will be putting his pic online soon. When I came home a while ago, I told him to ring the shop to see if anyone was looking for their dog. He did and the staff said they think the dog belongs to a homeless guy.
What would you do in this situation? Would you try to unite the dog with his owner, even if the owner can't look after him properly. Like my husband said, this could be someones reason for getting through the day.
At the same time though, this dog could be dead if my husband didn't intervene.
We could really do with advice here!

godtabh

buggirl wrote: »

My husband found a dog in the city centre today. He saw it walking in and out of traffic until it went into a shop. He followed it in and checked about for an owner but nobody claimed it. So he brought it home and will be putting his pic online soon. When I came home a while ago, I told him to ring the shop to see if anyone was looking for their dog. He did and the staff said they think the dog belongs to a homeless guy.
What would you do in this situation? Would you try to unite the dog with his owner, even if the owner can't look after him properly. Like my husband said, this could be someones reason for getting through the day.
At the same time though, this dog could be dead if my husband didn't intervene.
We could really do with advice here!

Who says the owner can't look after him?

The Sweeper

Homeless people's dogs are some of the best socialised dogs I've ever met... For all you guys know, the homeless chap could have been picked up by the police for something for 24 hours (in, showered, washed, shaved, given out to, out again) and not allowed take his dog, and his poor dog could've been wandering about looking for him.

Try to find out a bit more about the whole situation before deciding the dog would be better off somewhere else - never underestimate the damage to a dog of going into the pound system, the grief of losing a loved owner, the confusion of being fostered and then moved into a different family home, and the outside chance that that family home won't do the right thing by the dog as it ages, in spite of having taken it on as a rescue. It's never as simple as 'rehome it'.

buggirl

Well, if its a small dog weaving in and out of busy city centre traffic, then it makes you wonder.

ISDW

Or the dog could have been stolen and dumped. Someone could be looking everywhere for their much loved pet.

Take it to the vet and see if its microchipped.

By law, unless the dog has done its time in the pound, you cannot rehome it for one year and a day, up until that point, if someone else has the dog, the original owner can still turn up and claim it.

buggirl

Hubby brought him to vet, he's not miicrochipped

Cedrus

buggirl wrote: »

He did and the staff said they think the dog belongs to a homeless guy..................., this could be someones reason for getting through the day.

If it is a homeless guys dog it could be getting him through more than just the day. I don't know the dog, I don't know the guy, but in the past I've met people on the street, and their dog has been the best thing they have, keeping them away from drink and drugs and sometimes being the bridge back to a safer lifestyle. I've seen guys who weren't capable of looking after themselves but they always made sure that the dog was fed and watered. Unfortunately, like Sweeper says above, they can't take the dog everywhere and it's not like they have a yard to leave them in.

RosieJoe

This will make you realise just how important a pet can be to a homeless person: Homeless man jumps into Liffey to save pet rabbit

Magenta

RosieJoe wrote: »

This will make you realise just how important a pet can be to a homeless person: Homeless man jumps into Liffey to save pet rabbit

I think I saw that man the other week, and he also has a Jack Russell type dog, both the dog and the rabbit were happily laying together with their owner.
OP, find the owner and give the dog back. You have no right to keep someone else's dog based on your own assumptions. Anyone's dog can end up in traffic, who is to say the dog wasn't stolen from the man and then dumped.
I find "Well, if its a small dog weaving in and out of busy city centre traffic, then it makes you wonder." incredibly narrow minded, that rabbit ended up in the Liffey, does that make you wonder too, despite the owner jumping in to save it? That homeless man could be looking everywhere for his dog, you think he has the money or means to go online and post about it or pay to have posters etc printed? If the shop owner thinks it's his dog then surely he can take a message for you or something. I'm sure the Simon Community or similar organisations will have heard if a homeless person's dog has gone missing.

Edit- It is the same man. I recognise the dog, and the rabbit is the same colour too. http://thedailyedge.thejournal.ie/man-jumps-into-liffey-to-save-pet-rabbit-169390-Jul2011/#slide-slideshow3

are you serious

The Sweeper wrote: »

For all you guys know, the homeless chap could have been picked up by the police for something for 24 hours (in, showered, washed, shaved, given out to, out again)and not allowed take his dog, and his poor dog could've been wandering about looking for him. if the guy was arrested his dog would have been taken and the dog warden would have been called

Op my advice would be either keep the dog or surrender it to the pound!

jam_mac_jam

So you have the right to steal the mans dog because he is homeless? Who are you to judge if he can look after the dog or not. Horrible.

are you serious

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

So you have the right to steal the mans dog because he is homeless? Who are you to judge if he can look after the dog or not. Horrible.

The op said when her husband called the shop they said they think the dog belongs to a homeless man, not that it does or that they know who owns it but they think.

He was not stealing the dog when taking it from the roadside saving it from possibly being hit by a car... or should he have left it there to add to the number of dogs being knocked down..?

godtabh

godtabh wrote: »

Who says the owner can't look after him?

The dog was found on its own walking in and out of traffic. Does that sound like being looked after?

Overature

love the add for dog dentastic at the bottem of the page, OP try and give the dog back

coolaboola

Tough call. Good luck whatever you decide. However, could I suggest that if you cannot reunite the dog with its owner for whatever reason and you do have the dog's best interest at heart that you do *not* surrender to a local authority pound but instead consider a local no-kill animal rescue instead?

Under Irish law surrendered dogs can be put to sleep immediately or within 24 hours of surrender (different pounds apply this rule with varying degrees of strictness, depending on their policies and demands on their space). Strays have up to 5 days before being killed. I'm not sure how the dog would be classified in this case but either way it doesn't leave much hope for the mutt: new dog homes are hard to come by in these tough times, especially in such a narrow time window.

(As an aside, if you do surrender the dog to a local no-kill animal rescue and you can afford to do so I'm sure they would very much appreciate a contribution to the dog's keep in their care - they'll keep him safe and well until a new home can be found. But if you can't afford it don't let it be a barrier to contacting your local rescue.)

Some 2010 statistics on the fate of strays in pounds in Ireland (from environ.ie) - interesting variation from county to county.

This Irishanimals.ie link may be helpful in finding a local no-kill animal rescue: http://www.irishanimals.ie/irish/index.html

Ophiopogon

If the dog is well fed and in good conditon, give it back to it's owner. I don't really see what the question is here. If it's healthy and happy you have no right to take it away from someone.

If the dog was malnurnished and always found to be wandering in traffic than yes, I would question giving it back to the owner.

are you serious

Some replies here dont make sense if you correctly read the OP's first comment.

The owner of the dog was not there, he did not take it from anyone, he later called to see if the store knew who owned it and they think they might but couldnt be sure... Therefore the op's husband can not give the dog back to an imaginary person...

Ophiopogon

garkane wrote: »

Some replies here dont make sense if you correctly read the OP's first comment.

The owner of the dog was not there, he did not take it from anyone, he later called to see if the store knew who owned it and they think they might but couldnt be sure... Therefore the op's husband can not give the dog back to an imaginary person...

Well yeah but if you are given an idea as to who the owner may be then you should still look into it. Like if you were told they lived in a certain area than you would prob put up posters in the area no?

From the way I read the op, they are saying they are not sure to follow up as it may be a homeless person and can't look after it. The only indication of not being able to look after the dog is that it was lose but TBF how does the OP know it isn't the first time the dog got away.

garkane

garkane wrote: »

Some replies here dont make sense if you correctly read the OP's first comment.

The owner of the dog was not there, he did not take it from anyone, he later called to see if the store knew who owned it and they think they might but couldnt be sure... Therefore the op's husband can not give the dog back to an imaginary person...

OP is asking should she even try - of course she should

I just think the question "can they take care of the dog" isn't as outrageous as it may have seemed, because of the circumstances
I don't think it's grounds to keep the dog, they should try to find out the owner and see what they're like or whatever

Blogger50

See photo.

Fair play for taking care of the dog OP but whether this man is homeless or not makes no difference.

B

V Eight

Find the homeless guy and offer to buy the dog!
Might be a solution where everyone wins......

Zapperzy

V Eight wrote: »

Find the homeless guy and offer to buy the dog!
Might be a solution where everyone wins......

How would everyone win? I would imagine for some homeless people their dog is a constant friend, a source of heat, protection and a reason to live day to day. Why offer them money to take away all this? Some homeless people's dogs are better looked after than dogs at home on their own all day shoved in a garden literally going stir crazy, at least these dogs (homeless people's dogs) have constant companionship all day long. They may not get a warm comfy bed in front of a fire or a €60 bag of dog food but they get socialised and physically & mentally exercised practically 24 hours a day, a lot more than most dogs including my own gets.

I would be with others that you should at least try and find the owner to return the dog. If it was a dog that was allowed wander everyday he would be well known by the people in the shop, chances are he just got loose. Hell it may not even belong to a homeless person but a family somewhere?

Vince32

The owners property is his property as far as I'm concerned, you did well taking the dog in and looking after it. But now it's time to find the owner, the shop assistant said he "thinks" the dog belongs to a homeless guy, or it could belong to a family who are missing the dog.

I think it's pretty clear cut, the owner, homeless or not was taking care of the dog, it wasn't under weight or unhealthy, it was just looking for it's owner, trying to cross a road and looking in shops the guy went too. Obviously the fact the dog was in the traffic is a cause for concern, but without making the effort to return the dog and assessing the situation regarding it's welfare with it's owner, you can't make that call off your own back.

If you find the owner and deem him unfit to care for the animal, then you need to follow the proper channels and place it in a care facility, then if your attached to the dog you can adopt it or foster it.

At least that's what I think, without paperwork, medical history, environment history you would be taking a huge risk keeping the dog. If you can't find the owners after a reasonable period (1 month), then consider carefully the next decision you guys make.

The Sweeper

garkane wrote: »

Op my advice would be either keep the dog or surrender it to the pound!

You seem to have quoted me saying something I didn't say, so I'm going to assume you formatted your post incorrectly.

Keeping a dog that doesn't belong to you is theft. Surrendering it to the pound is essentially a prolonged euthanasia.

On the claim that the dog warden would be called and the dog detained, I don't necessarily believe that to be true. If the dog was off-leash and ran away from the hub-bub, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Gardai didn't pursue it or didn't wait around for the dog warden. Even if they called the warden there'd be a period of time where the dog was wandering, waiting for the warden to pick it up.

I remember the story of the chap who jumped into the river after his rabbit - if I recall there was a discussion on here that said the emergency services wanted to take him to the hospital and he refused to go, because they wouldn't let him bring the rabbit and there was nobody to look after it. The homeless chap refused to simply leave his rabbit on the bridge and go to the hospital.

are you serious

@The Sweeper, I didnt quote you saying something you didnt, see post #3 on the thread from you... I qouted what you said and replied to you in bold, within the quoted part...

In my opinion if a homeless person has a pet and they are looking after it correctly but for some reason they get arrested then they are no longer able to look after this pet, so they then lose the right to own this pet.

mosi

I wouldn't rush into handing back the dog without thoroughly investigating the situation. There seems to be a few kneejerk reactions on here that because the guy is homeless, the OP is wrong for being concerned about handing the dog back.
Firstly there is no confirmation that the dog is his. Were he to be tracked down, the people who think that he may own the dog would have to vouch for him before the dog is returned, unless he can otherwise prove ownership.
Secondly, the circumstances of why the dog was wandering in traffic and clearly lost would have to be ascertained. Was he arrested? Passed out on drink or drugs? Did he leave the dog to fend for itself while he went to a hostel for the night? There could be many reasons but we can be fairly sure of one thing...the guy doesn't have the facilities to provide a secure premises for the dog, one of the aspects of responsible dog ownership that many here (myself included) consider to be vital.
Thirdly, some homeless people only keep a pet so as to solicit sympathy and donations from passersby.
I myself would be concerned if I was in the OPs position and would want to know much more before handing the dog over to this person.

Chinasea

OP, your husband saved the dog's life and was good enough not to stick his head in sand when he saw the stray dog and proactively did something about it. I don't believe the homeless man should have the dog returned to him. You simply can't let dogs roam around regardless if you are homeless or not. There are no second chances in this - the dog gets hit by a car it's all over.

Well done to your husband for saving the dogs life.

The Sweeper

Wow there's some major intolerance for hard times on this thread. I know that the dog in the OP may not even belong to someone homeless, but thought this might be of interest...

http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=82599

axle108

If there had been no mention of the dog possibly been owned by a homeless person but by a family, i wonder would some of the remarks above surfaced. :rolleyes:

Yes the op was noble in rescuing the dog, but it belongs to someone and its the op who should make the effort to at least try and find that person. Whos to say this dog might have just lost his owner in a split second of distraction. The owner could be distraught and might have no idea where to look.

axle108

Chinasea wrote: »

OP, your husband saved the dog's life and was good enough not to stick his head in sand when he saw the stray dog and proactively did something about it. I don't believe the homeless man should have the dog returned to him. You simply can't let dogs roam around regardless if you are homeless or not. There are no second chances in this - the dog gets hit by a car it's all over.

Well done to your husband for saving the dogs life.

So if a dogs leash snapped or a gate was left open, should the dog still not be returned. Who knows how this dog ended up there.

are you serious

axle108 wrote: »

1If there had been no mention of the dog possibly been owned by a homeless person but by a family, i wonder would some of the remarks above surfaced. :rolleyes:

2Yes the op was noble in rescuing the dog, but it belongs to someone and its the op who should make the effort to at least try and find that person. Whos to say this dog might have just lost his owner in a split second of distraction. The owner could be distraught and might have no idea where to look.

axle108 wrote: »

So if a dogs leash snapped or a gate was left open, should the dog still not be returned. Who knows how this dog ended up there.

1The op's husband did not know or care who's dog it was when he took it from the roadside. They then later found out it was possibly a homeless guy's dog. If the dog had a collar with the owners details none of this thread would have been necessary, but it didnt.

2By calling the shop the op has clearly tried, what do you expect them to do, go walking the city streets of Dublin city centre to find the right homeless person... Not a very good idea if you want my opinion.

OP where exactly did your husband find this dog? If it was south inner city let me know where or what street if he knows the street name please.

lolo62

do you have a pic of the dog?

axle108

Never suggested walking the streets to find the owner. A picture in a few windows with details left of how to contact whoever has the dog would help if the owner is searching. After all the dog doesn't belong to the op so its not up to them to decide who to give this dog to or keep it. The staff said THEY THINK the dog belongs to a homeless guy.

buggirl

Well we tracked down the homeless guy and its not his dog. Like i said he is not microchipped, we have posted his pic on lostdogs.ie and munsterlostandfound and daw as well as reporting it to the gardai. We are keeping him until a foster family can take him, but with the amount of dogs being abandoned that could take a while. We will be popping up a few posters locally in shops (if the accept them) in case he belongs to someone who doesn't have internet access.
I can see this is an emotional issue for a lot of people from the replies. I think it really comes down to the wellbeing you get from having a pet against the big responsibility it is to look after them. I have attached a pic of the little fellow, it would be fab to get him back to his owner