Speeding Fine - Quick Question

Live4Ever

Got stopped for speeding on the M9 going to Waterford last November, mid morning hardly any traffic. My Grandmother was dieing so I was wasting no time and I was speeding - fair enough. Anyway she died about an hour after I arrived so I was glad I got to see her and probably wouldn't have made it otherwise.

- Any point in contesting the fine / penalty points? In my eyes it was a life or death situation which I tried to explain to the Garda but he's probably heard it before and figured I was lieing.

- My surname is also spelt incorrect. A 'B' instead of a 'D'. Obviously a quick search here tells me to pay the fine when there is a clerical error - which I would have normally, just thought I'd throw it in aswell.

I have no other penalty points for speeding or anything else before the high horse brigade start up - if I thought there was grounds to get it struck out obviously I will try.

Thanks in advance.

E39MSport

Empathise but hardly 'life OR death'. Nobody's life was depending upon it.

Judge might take the view that 2 lives were at risk of ending due to your driving as opposed to one.

Pay.

cormie

Sorry to hear about your grandmother. I've heard before there are exceptions in emergency situations, but I think that may have been to do with mobile phones, it could also have been hear say.

Where on the M9 were you stopped and what speed were you going? Were they stationed somewhere waiting to catch speeders or did you drive past an undercover? The road is well capable of exceeding 120kmph on for 95% of it and it's usually very quiet at most times anyway.

Mr. Presentable

Contesting it is a double or quits coin toss, OP. I'd pay it, if only because a failed contest could result in double points.

Live4Ever

cormie wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your grandmother. I've heard before there are exceptions in emergency situations, but I think that may have been to do with mobile phones, it could also have been hear say.

Where on the M9 were you stopped and what speed were you going? Were they stationed somewhere waiting to catch speeders or did you drive past an undercover? The road is well capable of exceeding 120kmph on for 95% of it and it's usually very quiet at most times anyway.

Yeah the road is so straight, obviously that's a different debate but the speed limit could be easily 140 or 150km/h on that road!

Leighlinstown. Doing 156km/h. He was parked the exit so I didnt see him until he was driving behind me.

corktina

you saved about 5 minutes by speeding and lost half an hour getting stopped. Had you kept to the limit you'd have been there sooner.

Pay it, he had you bang to rights and you've no excuse really.

Live4Ever

Yeah I think I'll pay it so. Wanted to see the response before I paid (no harm in trying).

cormie

ah it's only half an hour if you argue Can be done and dusted in about 3/4 minutes, plus the added likelihood of not being stopped, could have been the difference in seeing his grandmother before she died or not. Would advise just taking it on the chin, if you've no points already it's really just the money you'll need to worry about, but if you put the time you would spend into something else, you could make more than what you'd save contesting it. The points won't make a difference to insurance or anything if it's just the two.

Live4Ever

cormie wrote: »

ah it's only half an hour if you argue Can be done and dusted in about 3/4 minutes, plus the added likelihood of not being stopped, could have been the difference in seeing his grandmother before she died or not. Would advise just taking it on the chin, if you've no points already it's really just the money you'll need to worry about, but if you put the time you would spend into something else, you could make more than what you'd save contesting it. The points won't make a difference to insurance or anything if it's just the two.

I was only held up for 5 minutes max with the Garda. He told me a €60 but it's actually €80.

Yeah it's just the 2 points! I'll pay it off and put it down as a life experience!!

dahamsta

corktina wrote: »

you saved about 5 minutes by speeding and lost half an hour getting stopped. Had you kept to the limit you'd have been there sooner.

Charming

Tallon

dahamsta wrote: »

Charming

Yet correct...

Steady Zeddy

Live4Ever wrote: »

Got stopped for speeding on the M9 going to Waterford last November, mid morning hardly any traffic. My Grandmother was dieing so I was wasting no time and I was speeding - fair enough. Anyway she died about an hour after I arrived so I was glad I got to see her and probably wouldn't have made it otherwise.

- Any point in contesting the fine / penalty points? ........

I had a very similar experience a few years back.
In fact it was the day the penalty points came in.

Got a call from my brother at 11pm to tell me my grandmother was dying in Kilkenny and she wasn't expected to last the next couple of hours.

Drove from Limerick to Kilkenny and got stopped doing 88mph on the Nenagh bypass. Yes the speed was high - there was absolutley no traffic on the road and I made some time while the road was good and there was no traffic.

Pulled by AGS - asked why I was speeding - told him the story and he said "Ah sure I'm not even sure if these points are legal yet - if you get a letter you'll have to pay the fine". Thanks very much Garda says I - and I'm sent on my way.

Got to hospital in Kilkenny (my Gran subsequently passed on).

Six months later I get a letter requesting me to attend Nenagh District Court (no letter had arrived).

Sat in court all day waiting for my case to come up. Some guys shop lifting (slap on the wrist - don't do it again), another few small cases involving drugs etc and then the speeding cases started.

First case - 75mph on the bypass - 400Euro fine :eek: - and 3 months off the road. And so it went on.

Came to my case - Judge asked any reason I was going so fast - told me my story and he asked the guard if that was correct? Guard said he had no recollection of that conversation. 450Euro fine and 3 months off the road. I appealed.

Appeal took place in Clonmel - Got myself a soliticor (450Euro) and spoke to the guard before the case (gave him the details of a hospital ctc who could verify my grandmothers death on the night). He was a very reasonable chap and he accepted in front of the judge that my story was correct. Judge dismissed case. Solicitor congratulated me - no fine - no points.

Thought that that'd be the end of it.

Approx six months later Guards appear at my door with an arrest warrant for not paying the original fine.
I explained the situation to them and they contacted my solicitor who verified the case. To cut an even longer story short my options were for it to go back to court (another 450Euro for the solicitor) or just pay the 450Euro fine.

I paid the fine.

dahamsta

Tallon wrote: »

dahamsta wrote: »

Charming

Yet correct...

It still would have been correct if he'd kept his mouth shut and not been an asshat about it. The OP's granny just died ffs, give the dickish Speeding Bad righteous nonsense a rest for once.

Tallon

dahamsta wrote: »

It still would have been correct if he'd kept his mouth shut and not been an asshat about it. The OP's granny just died ffs, give the dickish Speeding Bad righteous nonsense a rest for once.

He asked a question re: speeding... It was answered. nothing 'dickish' about that!

And how do you mean "give it a rest for once"? Care to show me where I said this before?

Speeding wouldn't and didn't solve anything!

dahamsta

Are you the person I replied to originally? Perhaps if you minded your own business you wouldn't confuse yourself.

Tallon

dahamsta wrote: »

Are you the person I replied to originally? Perhaps if you minded your own business you wouldn't confuse yourself.

You just quoted me, and I responded!

Don't know why you're being a dick about this all of a sudden

Anan1

dahamsta wrote: »

Are you the person I replied to originally? Perhaps if you minded your own business you wouldn't confuse yourself.

Do you own this thread?

Steady Zeddy

corktina wrote: »

you saved about 5 minutes by speeding and lost half an hour getting stopped. Had you kept to the limit you'd have been there sooner.....

Tallon wrote: »

...Speeding wouldn't and didn't solve anything!

Legalities aside - in the vast majority of cases I'm pretty sure you'll find that an increase in speed = getting somewhere sooner. The .001% of times that you will come to the attention of AGS is almost insignificant in comparison.

When your turn comes around and it is literally a matter of you getting to see someone for the last time I hope you'll be met with more compassion than you yourself can display.

Tallon

The point is.. he realistically only saved 5 minutes of his journey.. even if he didn't get stopped.

You would want to be flat out from your front door to your destination at all times to even remotely have an impact, and even then, it wouldn't be by much

cpoh1

Tallon wrote: »

The point is.. he realistically only saved 5 minutes of his journey.. even if he didn't get stopped.

You would want to be flat out from your front door to your destination at all times to even remotely have an impact, and even then, it wouldn't be by much

I hear this all the time but its rubbish to be honest.

If I am travelling a distance of 100kms on a motorway and drive at 150kph ill get there in 40mins, if I drive at 120kph i get there in 50mins. Thats a 10minute distance which can be everything when you are trying to get to see someone before they pass away. Longer distance bigger the time difference.

Considering 150kph is nothing on a motorway i think the benefit to drawbacks in doing this for the OP's situation are stacked quite favourably in taking the chance.

Sorry for your loss OP.

TestTransmission

dahamsta wrote: »

It still would have been correct if he'd kept his mouth shut and not been an asshat about it. The OP's granny just died ffs, give the dickish Speeding Bad righteous nonsense a rest for once.

Tallon wrote: »

He asked a question re: speeding... It was answered. nothing 'dickish' about that!

And how do you mean "give it a rest for once"? Care to show me where I said this before?

Speeding wouldn't and didn't solve anything!

dahamsta wrote: »

Are you the person I replied to originally? Perhaps if you minded your own business you wouldn't confuse yourself.

Tallon wrote: »

You just quoted me, and I responded!

Don't know why you're being a dick about this all of a sudden

Less of the handbags and personal insults

CiniO

Tallon wrote: »

The point is.. he realistically only saved 5 minutes of his journey.. even if he didn't get stopped.

You would want to be flat out from your front door to your destination at all times to even remotely have an impact, and even then, it wouldn't be by much

I was coming back home recently after long journey and wanted to get there as soon as possible.
Motorway from Dublin to Galway is 185km, which I traveled during middle of the night with my cruise control set at 160km/h.
I only slowed down at 2 toll points, and on Athlone bypass.
Total journey time was about 73 minutes. (from beginning of motorway outside Dublin up to roundabout in Galway).
On the way I overtook maybe 10 trucks and 5 cars... That was all the traffic.

If I kept at speed limit at 120km/h it would be about 95 minuts.
So in less then 200km I saved 22 minutes.

Bazzy

CiniO wrote: »

I was coming back home recently after long journey and wanted to get there as soon as possible.
Motorway from Dublin to Galway is 185km, which I traveled during middle of the night with my cruise control set at 160km/h.
I only slowed down at 2 toll points, and on Athlone bypass.
Total journey time was about 73 minutes. (from beginning of motorway outside Dublin up to roundabout in Galway).
On the way I overtook maybe 10 trucks and 5 cars... That was all the traffic.

If I kept at speed limit at 120km/h it would be about 95 minuts.
So in less then 200km I saved 22 minutes.

the high horse brigade will slate you for this !

Tell them you drive a skoda/audi and you might get away with it !

Live4Ever

Tallon wrote: »

The point is.. he realistically only saved 5 minutes of his journey.. even if he didn't get stopped.

You would want to be flat out from your front door to your destination at all times to even remotely have an impact, and even then, it wouldn't be by much

``
Seriously man, what is your problem?

What if I had arrived at my Grandmothers house 5 minutes too late cause I sat pretty at 120km/h door to door? I'm sure I'd feel really good because I obeyed the law.

The particular road is dead straight with very little traffic. Driving conditions were also perfect, there was no rain. The drive is literally motorway the entire way, a maximum 90minute drive. There are times when you just gotta break the law, this was one.

Anyway thanks to all the other (positive) posters. I think I will just pay the fine and be done with it...

Tallon

No problem here mate, you just seem to think you should be let off

You broke the law, deal with it

Riskymove

Steady Zeddy wrote: »

Legalities aside - in the vast majority of cases I'm pretty sure you'll find that an increase in speed = getting somewhere sooner.

perhaps on a point to point motorway journey

but there have been numerous times when people have sped past me only for me to catch up with them at lights or behing a slow moving vehicle etc

Redsoxfan

Different jurisdiction, but similar story.

http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/north-east/319552-totally-lost-gutted-death-of-loved-one-and-durham-police.html#post4598422

It's a bit long, so in a nutshell, similar circumstances to OP, poster was pulled by the cops doing 140mph (it seems), explained situation to cops, was escorted to hospital.

pa990

if you were to contest it on a matter of life or death,
then you must justify, that by speeding you were attempting to save someone from death.

ie. driving a very ill person to a doctor or hospital, or delivering medication to someone who has lapsed into unconsciousness and who had no hope of making any recovery unless you arrived with this life saving substance.

dahamsta

Tallon, if you weren't going out of your way to take offense, it would be obvious to you that I was referring to the original heartless statement by corktina. Since you've now followed up with more of the same, I guess you're never going to understand. Perhaps try looking up "compassion" in the dictionary. Being correct isn't always the same as being right.

Live4ever, I'm sorry for your loss and I apologise if I spoiled the thread. TestTransmission, apologies for the same reason.

Tallon

dahamsta wrote: »

Tallon, if you weren't going out of your way to take offense, it would be obvious to you that I was referring to the original heartless statement by corktina. Since you've now followed up with more of the same, I guess you're never going to understand. Perhaps try looking up "compassion" in the dictionary. Being correct isn't always the same as being right.

Live4ever, I'm sorry for your loss and I apologise if I spoiled the thread. TestTransmission, apologies for the same reason.

You had a sly one word dig at someone, and I pulled you up over it.. Get over it

Live4Ever

dahamsta wrote: »

Live4ever, I'm sorry for your loss and I apologise if I spoiled the thread. TestTransmission, apologies for the same reason.

Not ruined at all mate.

Although I will say that there are times when the high horse brigade are out of line. I think this is certainly one of those times!!

Vic_08

Riskymove wrote: »

but there have been numerous times when people have sped past me only for me to catch up with them at lights or behing a slow moving vehicle etc

And there is the line trotted out by dawdlers everywhere. Of course if the person hadn't been slowed down behind you in the first place they may well have gotten through the lights before they turned red or been able to pass the other slow moving traffic.

Every little delay adds up, particularly for those making long journeys.

Live4Ever

Quick update.

I was advised by the Gardai to make an appeal to the Superintendent of the area. I wrote him a letter and explained what happened etc. I will update you all when I hear back.

Indricotherium

Vic_08 wrote: »

Riskymove wrote: »

but there have been numerous times when people have sped past me only for me to catch up with them at lights or behing a slow moving vehicle etc

And there is the line trotted out by dawdlers everywhere. Of course if the person hadn't been slowed down behind you in the first place they may well have gotten through the lights before they turned red or been able to pass the other slow moving traffic.

Every little delay adds up, particularly for those making long journeys.

As to that, a car travelling at 140-160 on the motorway is going 20 to 40 kph faster than one doing the limit. This is obvious and the car will go further in a given time.

However, when the speeding car exits the motor way and meets a town or traffic light its speed will be reduced to between zero and 50 kph

Meanwhile the car doI g the limit on the motorway is closing the gap at a rate of between 120 and 70 kph.

The advantage gained by speeding at a small percentage above the limit are immediately lost when you come back down to zero as you inevitably will in a town.

Couple this with the increased risk of accident which is real, if often overstated, and the chances of picking up fined and penalties I can't see the point.


To get any real time gain you'd have to really be moving fast 200 kph+ and that speed is very dangerous in any car.

Pat Mustard

Live4Ever wrote: »

Not ruined at all mate.

Although I will say that there are times when the high horse brigade are out of line. I think this is certainly one of those times!!

Have to agree with this.

There are some very snide attitudes held by a very vocal minority of people who post on this forum. And it is THIS forum. I don't see the same level of malice (directed towards people who ask for advice) on any other forum on boards.

Some of the remarks are dressed up as being marked out of concern for road safety.

The OP came on here looking for the answer to a simple question - whether he should pay the fixed charge or not. He didn't ask anybody's moral opinion.

Good luck OP.

Anan1

The Mustard wrote: »

The OP came on here looking for the answer to a simple question - whether he should pay the fixed charge or not. He didn't ask anybody's moral opinion.

Aren't the two linked, though?

The Mustard wrote: »

Good luck OP.

+1

Big Nasty

Steady Zeddy wrote: »

Drove from Limerick to Kilkenny doing 88mph on the Nenagh bypass and ended up in 1955

FYP!:D:D:D

Pat Mustard

Anan1 wrote: »

Aren't the two linked, though?

In my view, no.

Nobody pays a Fixed Charge Notice out a sense of guilt. You pay because you believe that if you fail to do so, the ultimate consequences will be worse.

So let's leave responsibility, guilt, and moral culpability out of the equation, because they are not part of the decision making process in this case.

It comes down to whether it will cost more to pay now or not. I can't see it as being any more complicated than that.

Anan1

The Mustard wrote: »

Anan1 wrote: »

Aren't the two linked, though?

In my view, no.

Nobody pays a Fixed Charge Notice out a sense of guilt. You pay because you believe that if you fail to do so, the ultimate consequences will be worse.

So let's leave responsibility, guilt, and moral culpability out of the equation, because they are not part of the decision making process in this case.

It comes down to whether it will cost more to pay now or not. I can't see it as being any more complicated than that.

I'm a little confused here. Are you saying that because right and wrong are irrelevant to you that they should also be irrelevant to everyone else who posts in this thread?

Pat Mustard

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm a little confused here. Are you saying that because right and wrong are irrelevant to you that they should also be irrelevant to everyone else who posts in this thread?

The decision regarding the rights and wrongs of speeding were made when the man put his foot down. It's in the past.

This is about problem solving. That is the issue.

Everything else is totally unhelpful. The OP knows he shouldn't have been speeding. He doesn't need some Smart Alec to tell him that he was wrong and that he should suck it up.

But still people come along and say exactly that. And they say that it's about right and wrong.

Tallon

If the OP knows he shouldn't have been speeding, then why is he arguing the decision?

You shouldn't speak on behalf of the OP

Pat Mustard

Tallon wrote: »

If the OP knows he shouldn't have been speeding, then why is he arguing the decision?

That's up to him.

My point was that we should either assist him or sit quietly by.

Tallon

The Mustard wrote: »

That's up to him.

My point was that we should either assist him or sit quietly by.

Says who? This is a discussion board, not group therapy

Pat Mustard

Tallon wrote: »

Says who? This is a discussion board, not group therapy

Precisely.

Let's discuss the morals of speeding. Speeding is wrong. It's that simple. End of. We've all heard it ad nauseum.

But let's rub it in again when we get a chance.

Same old ding dong, really.

Tallon

The Mustard wrote: »

Precisely.

Let's discuss the morals of speeding. Speeding is wrong. It's that simple. End of. We've all heard it ad nauseum.

But let's rub it in again when we get a chance.

Same old ding dong, really.

But you were the one that brought it back up after the OP updated the thread

Anan1

The Mustard wrote: »

The decision regarding the rights and wrongs of speeding were made when the man put his foot down. It's in the past.

This is about problem solving. That is the issue.

Everything else is totally unhelpful. The OP knows he shouldn't have been speeding. He doesn't need some Smart Alec to tell him that he was wrong and that he should suck it up.

But still people come along and say exactly that. And they say that it's about right and wrong.

Hold on a minute. You're not judge, jury & executioner here. The fact that you can see no link between whether the fine was fair and whether the OP should pay it is your affair - it gives you no right to dictate either how other people should see it or how the discussion should proceed. By all means make your point, but don't even think to deny others that same courtesy.

Live4Ever

Tallon wrote: »

If the OP knows he shouldn't have been speeding, then why is he arguing the decision?

You shouldn't speak on behalf of the OP

I'm not arguing the decision lads - I genuinely thought that I had grounds to speed.

As I said I've never been done for speeding - first time offender under special circumstances. My family told me to appeal it. More than one Garda told me to appeal it. So I wrote the letter to the Super.

I can see where Mustard is coming from. There is a tendancy to get on your high horse, but look it's an internet forum, it's to be expected.

You have to ask yourself: if a family member was on their death bed, would you speed to get there in time?

Anan1

Live4Ever wrote: »

I'm not arguing the decision lads - I genuinely thought that I had grounds to speed.

As I said I've never been done for speeding - first time offender under special circumstances. My family told me to appeal it. More than one Garda told me to appeal it. So I wrote the letter to the Super.



You have to ask yourself: if a family member was on their death bed, would you speed to get there in time?

I think you had grounds to speed too, i'd have done it myself. But here's the thing - having a good reason to speed is not the same as having a good reason to not pay the fine. I don't think there's any harm in appealing it, but i'd think of it it as a lucky break rather than an entitlement if the appeal is granted.

Live4Ever wrote: »

I can see where Mustard is coming from. There is a tendancy to get on your high horse, but look it's an internet forum, it's to be expected.

All the high horse accusation means around here is that someone doesn't agree with something but can't articulate why. It's a Kindergarten argument.

dahamsta

On the topic of dawdlers / speeders, these are two separate issues and as usual the Speed Kills bible thumpers can't see past their own noses, and conflate the two.

If you're doing 100 in a 100 and I overtake you doing 105 - which is unlikely, I'm usually happy to cruise behind someone doing a reasonable speed - then technically I'm breaking the law and you can yammer on about me all day like the utter bore that you are.

However if you're dawdling along at 85kph because: a) you think the speed limit is still 55mph, and b) you're oblivious to the fact that speedos read over, then if the road is clear I'll pass you and go 15kph faster if I bloody well feel like it. It's unlikely I'm in a hurry anyway, I just don't want to drive behind your slow, ugly, boring, i-cant-believe-how-affordable-my-skoda*-was ass.

It may not be a "target", as ye love to say, but it is allowed. Move over, get out of my way.


*With no offense intended to RS drivers.

Anan1

dahamsta wrote: »

On the topic of dawdlers / speeders, these are two separate issues and as usual the Speed Kills bible thumpers can't see past their own noses.

If you're doing 100 in a 100 and I overtake you doing 105 - which is unlikely, I'm usually happy to cruise behind someone doing a reasonable speed - then technically I'm breaking the law and you can yammer on about me all day like the utter bore that you are.

However if you're dawdling along at 85kph because: a) you think the speed limit is still 55mph, and b) you're oblivious to the fact that speedos read over, then if the road is clear I'll pass you and go 15kph faster if I bloody well feel like it. It's unlikely I'm in a hurry anyway, I just don't want to drive behind your slow, ugly, boring, i-cant-believe-how-affordable-my-skoda-was ass.

It may not be a "target", as ye love to say, but it is allowed. Move over, get out of my way.

5km/h over the limit isn't speeding, it's dawdling.

Pat Mustard

Anan1 wrote: »

Hold on a minute. You're not judge, jury & executioner here. The fact that you can see no link between whether the fine was fair and whether the OP should pay it is your affair - it gives you no right to dictate either how other people should see it or how the discussion should proceed. By all means make your point, but don't even think to deny others that same courtesy.

I can see no rational link between the OP's request for assistance and the bitter abuse to which he has been subjected by a particular section of posters in this forum.

On reading my posts, you'll find that I do not purport to be judge, jury and executioner of anything. Quite the opposite, in fact.

It is impressive that some people have again attempted to twist this into some kind of moralistic argument.

My point was that those kind of comments have been trotted out many times before, that nobody learns anything from them, and that they are, in a word - pointless.