Getting out of Civil Engineering

aquascrotum

Just a thought...what experience does anyone have of moving out of Civils after a good few years, and into another career path?

Am 8yrs graduated, Chartered civil engineer. Despite my current disillusionment I do appreciate that I'm very, very lucky to still be in a job given the numbers out there that would kill to be in my position. I do remind myself of this every day.

However I've come to the point where I'm 2nd in command at a small consultancy, am knocking in 60hr weeks, am living and breathing the job, waking in the night reminding myself of some task I need to remember to do in the morning, spending half my week getting between the regional airports in the UK and landing into the house after 11pm etc etc. I am (in fairness) earning over what the average is for my experience and role due to what I bring to the company, but am earning considerably less than less hard working, less intelligent, less committed individuals who I socialise with who work in other industries - generally finance and insurance.

At the minute my prospects are continue to knock my pan in for relative peanuts, or wait another few years and go it alone with a hope of getting a bit more reward but for even more workload - when I look at the pressure my boss is under, there's no way I want that.

I desperately need to get a better work / life balance, get a bit of quality of life and less stress, and work in something where theres a prospect of a bit of reward for being good at your job.

When doing our degrees all we heard about was how transferable our skills were, especially within finance - I know some people I left uni with managed to get into graduate programmes, but has anyone any experience of transferring across after a number of years of engineering? Is it a case of starting off again on the bottom rung? I know I can talk about skills transfer, analytical skills, project management, contractual and commercial awareness etc.

Basically any experience or advice would be appreciated. And I'm not overly bothered if work took me to London or anywhere else either - just would like to know what my options are.

elusiveguy

I lost my CE job due to the downturn. I did the NUI Maynooth HDip in Information Technology and 9 months later, I'm a java developer

Not sure if back to college is what you had in mind but I was very happy it worked out so well.

con1982

I'm in a similar position Aquascrotum. Working like mad. Earning significantly less than the average industrial wage.

Have you considered moving to Canada? A few guys I went to college with are working in Vancouver. 8 years experience too. E60,000+ is on offer, from what i'm told. Employers are easy going and there is no recession.

I can't go for family reasons

aquascrotum

con1982 wrote: »

I'm in a similar position Aquascrotum. Working like mad. Earning significantly less than the average industrial wage.

Have you considered moving to Canada? A few guys I went to college with are working in Vancouver. 8 years experience too. E60,000+ is on offer, from what i'm told. Employers are easy going and there is no recession.

I can't go for family reasons

I'd prefer not to emigrate if I'm honest, at least not that far. I've been contacted about work in NZ but I'm just not sure it's my cup of tea. If things went belly up here though then I'd be on the plane.

I'd also prefer not to have to go back to college - obviously thered be some need to re-skill. At the end of the day if everyone here says theres no easy(ish) transferability in terms of finance and engineering outside of graduate recruitment, then so be it.

The tipping point for me came last week - an office cleaner came in and was looking a higher hourly rate than our chargeout rate for grad engineers. Ridiculous.

CatFromHue

Have you any idea what area you'd like to move into?

I'm not sure about transferring to another area without further add on study though. Could you contact the careers office from where you graduated? They should be able to give you a bit more info on how to move industry and/or what skills you'd need.

aquascrotum

CatFromHue wrote: »

Could you contact the careers office from where you graduated? They should be able to give you a bit more info on how to move industry and/or what skills you'd need.

I'm sorry but this makes me chuckle.

I graduated from QUB - and while it was a good degree and a good uni, my experience of the careers dept both as a graduate seeking work back in 04, and as an employer trying to get word out about graduation vacancies in the middle of the worst recession in a generation, is that they absolutely do not know their arse from their elbow and don't give a jot.

In terms of what interests me - my cousin went straight into business management consultancy (basically analysing and "restructuring" businesses (getting people sacked) for efficiency) - this seems interesting. Then she moved to Amex and works in the City in London. Which I could also put up with or get interested in given the £££ apparently on the table.

Again the difficulty is she went in on graduate training programs as a 21yr old out of college, whereas I'm a dyed in the blood engineer on the brink of 30.

I've spoken to a lot of people "in finance" - who when pressed don't seem to be able to give a clear indication of what it is exactly that they do do within finance. Makes it hard to know what roles are out there for people like me.

annfield1978

aquascrotum wrote: »

Just a thought...what experience does anyone have of moving out of Civils after a good few years, and into another career path?

Am 8yrs graduated, Chartered civil engineer. Despite my current disillusionment I do appreciate that I'm very, very lucky to still be in a job given the numbers out there that would kill to be in my position. I do remind myself of this every day.

However I've come to the point where I'm 2nd in command at a small consultancy, am knocking in 60hr weeks, am living and breathing the job, waking in the night reminding myself of some task I need to remember to do in the morning, spending half my week getting between the regional airports in the UK and landing into the house after 11pm etc etc. I am (in fairness) earning over what the average is for my experience and role due to what I bring to the company, but am earning considerably less than less hard working, less intelligent, less committed individuals who I socialise with who work in other industries - generally finance and insurance.

At the minute my prospects are continue to knock my pan in for relative peanuts, or wait another few years and go it alone with a hope of getting a bit more reward but for even more workload - when I look at the pressure my boss is under, there's no way I want that.

I desperately need to get a better work / life balance, get a bit of quality of life and less stress, and work in something where theres a prospect of a bit of reward for being good at your job.

When doing our degrees all we heard about was how transferable our skills were, especially within finance - I know some people I left uni with managed to get into graduate programmes, but has anyone any experience of transferring across after a number of years of engineering? Is it a case of starting off again on the bottom rung? I know I can talk about skills transfer, analytical skills, project management, contractual and commercial awareness etc.

Basically any experience or advice would be appreciated. And I'm not overly bothered if work took me to London or anywhere else either - just would like to know what my options are.

what is above ave these days?, I am 10 yrs qualified, CEng etc and have went from a peak of €65k to €44K to keep bread on the table. Obvisously, the employers are in pole position in terms of pay reviews or lack of, but I am keen to know where the market is at

aquascrotum

annfield1978 wrote: »

what is above ave these days?, I am 10 yrs qualified, CEng etc and have went from a peak of €65k to €44K to keep bread on the table. Obvisously, the employers are in pole position in terms of pay reviews or lack of, but I am keen to know where the market is at

I'm in NI so am on a different scale again to you guys, so very hard to gauge. When I was working in Dublin round 08/09 I dropped from E45k to E40k to redundant...

From what I can see though is that senior engineers / senior project engineers in water in the UK are being advertised round the mid to high £20k mark (never higher than £30k) - even in the south east of England - so strictly speaking by industry standard I'm doing OK.

annfield1978

yeah , the wages in the UK are pretty shocking, its embarrassing really, the company I work for have most of the projects outsourced to the UK, the rates are cheap even for senior staff, and their mark up factor is low too, around 1.5 - 1.6

yourpics

Have you considered hiring more staff to share the workload?

scotty_irish

Most Civils I know are planning their escape. Me, I'm currently doing a PhD which will hopefully see me as a scientific programmer when I'm done. Big bro (4 years experience) is doing a Master's in Biomedical. Most of my classmates, graduated in '09, are in other industries now such as finance etc. Don't blame anyone for getting out. Engineers in Ireland and UK are over-worked, underpaid, under-appreciated. Look at continental Europe where engineers are respected, well-paid (even graduates) and have career prospects - not going to happen in Ireland/UK. Three mates working in France currently as one year graduates - all earning mid to high 30s and rarely work over 40 hours. If I ever do work as an engineer it'll be in France/Germany, not dealing with the sh*te in Ireland.

As for getting out, I'm sure you have plenty of transferable skills, I think your biggest hurdle will be convincing a potential employer that you'll will stay in the job even in the unlikely event that civil will recover - that you're not just taking the job because you can't get any better.

aquascrotum

yourpics wrote: »

Have you considered hiring more staff to share the workload?

We've more than trebled in size in 3 years...our problem isn't unique, we move in circles similar to ourselves and all the small engineering consultancies about are mostly in the same boat in terms of reward for workload - or else putting in stupid amounts of work just to stay afloat.

My issue isnt with my current job, employer or workplace - its symptomatic of the opportunities within the civil engineering industry as a whole. If I don't get out now then I will turn into my current director, which is just not a life I have any intention of leading.

CatFromHue

aquascrotum wrote: »

I'm sorry but this makes me chuckle.

I graduated from QUB - and while it was a good degree and a good uni, my experience of the careers dept both as a graduate seeking work back in 04, and as an employer trying to get word out about graduation vacancies in the middle of the worst recession in a generation, is that they absolutely do not know their arse from their elbow and don't give a jot.

That could very well be the case but I wouldn't rule them out either.

budhabob

Unfortunately this seems to an a hot topic at the minute. I'm looking at the prospect of redundancy in the next few month, so the options that I see are emigration or retraining.....each day I lean towards a different option. It's a tough call.

yourpics

http://www.bluebrick.ie/ICTSkills/

con1982

I've 8 years experience in structural design. Live and work in Dublin, making less than 30k. Really dis-heartening considering the workload and my commitment to the job/client. I suppose i'm lucky to still have a job. Can't see a future in it at the moment.

annfield1978 wrote: »

what is above ave these days?, I am 10 yrs qualified, CEng etc and have went from a peak of €65k to €44K to keep bread on the table. Obvisously, the employers are in pole position in terms of pay reviews or lack of, but I am keen to know where the market is at

CatFromHue

con1982 wrote: »

I've 8 years experience in structural design. Live and work in Dublin, making less than 30k. Really dis-heartening considering the workload and my commitment to the job/client. I suppose i'm lucky to still have a job. Can't see a future in it at the moment.

Do you have any major commitments here in Ireland? and do you like what you do?

While you may feel you're lucky to have a job at the end of the day if you're putting more in than you're getting out what's the point?

Brian CivilEng

I loved being a civil engineer, I thought it a very rewarding job and more deserving of respect than it gets as a profession. But I have been out of work for three years. I used that time to do an MSc in Transport Planning, now I'm back on the job market again and a lot less confident than I was last year of getting back into employment.

What else is there to do to gain employment? I spent four years in college preparing for a career in civil eng, five years working in consultants, another year in college doing the TP. If I go to another industry does that mean at least another year in college before getting a paycheque. Things are very frustrating right now.

yourpics

abitofacomedian wrote: »

I loved being a civil engineer, I thought it a very rewarding job and more deserving of respect than it gets as a profession. But I have been out of work for three years. I used that time to do an MSc in Transport Planning, now I'm back on the job market again and a lot less confident than I was last year of getting back into employment.

What else is there to do to gain employment? I spent four years in college preparing for a career in civil eng, five years working in consultants, another year in college doing the TP. If I go to another industry does that mean at least another year in college before getting a paycheque. Things are very frustrating right now.

I feel your frustration. The only job in this country now is politician!

whatsthecraic

Is the general consensus that its time to get out of Engineering? Im a young (24) engineer considering getting out of the industry. Like the science of engineering, but no interest in business or management, which is where most engineering careers seem to end up if you stay with it long enough. Plus, long hours and unsatisfactory pay are fairly unappealing. I can't see the industry getting better for years to be honest.

yourpics

whatsthecraic wrote: »

Is the general consensus that its time to get out of Engineering? Im a young (24) engineer considering getting out of the industry. Like the science of engineering, but no interest in business or management, which is where most engineering careers seem to end up if you stay with it long enough. Plus, long hours and unsatisfactory pay are fairly unappealing. I can't see the industry getting better for years to be honest.

Depends which branch of engineering you are in i.e civil is as good as gone.

Think about the number of civil engineers from Ireland who are working abroad. They hope to come home one day to Ireland to work. At the moment it is difficult to see were all the jobs for these people will come from.

Brian CivilEng

yourpics wrote: »

I feel your frustration. The only job in this country now is politician!

Maybe that's not a bad career choice. The Dáil could use a rational thinking engineer. I always dreamt of one day being Dublin City Manager, or a London style mayor of Dublin (just call me Leslie Knope). Thought a career as a civil engineer would get me there.

yourpics

abitofacomedian wrote: »

Maybe that's not a bad career choice. The Dáil could use a rational thinking engineer. I always dreamt of one day being Dublin City Manager, or a London style mayor of Dublin (just call me Leslie Knope). Thought a career as a civil engineer would get me there.

Too many teachers in the Dail!

What do you think are the chances of moving into a different career without re-training? In other words using your transferable skills in another industry?

nacimroc

yourpics wrote: »

What do you think are the chances of moving into a different career without re-training?

I qualified in civil about 6 years ago! As far as I'm concerned its a dead occupation. Even if it does pick up theres a whole army of qualified graduates getting great experience abroad who will swoop back in to fill any positions, lowering the salaries and making it difficult to get anything.

I honestly couldn't see any possibility of you progressing into another area without some training. Even if was a 1 year business coarse etc, it would define you as something other than another engineer desperate for any work who will leave when they get something else.

Judging from the etenders site, the area of water/waste water is booming so maybe progression into that field may be easier?

scotty_irish

whatsthecraic wrote: »

Is the general consensus that its time to get out of Engineering? Im a young (24) engineer considering getting out of the industry. Like the science of engineering, but no interest in business or management, which is where most engineering careers seem to end up if you stay with it long enough. Plus, long hours and unsatisfactory pay are fairly unappealing. I can't see the industry getting better for years to be honest.

If you like the science and engineering maybe computer programming would be for you. There's demand for programmers with numerical backgrounds - the programming itself is easy to learn - it's the ability with numbers that makes you stand out.

aquascrotum

nacimroc wrote: »

Judging from the etenders site, the area of water/waste water is booming so maybe progression into that field may be easier?

In my experience the work available in water / waste is whats propping up whats left of the Irish civil engineering market - I wouldn't foresee any requirement for the market expanding or recruiting significantly to meet water or waste demand.

aquascrotum

scotty_irish wrote: »

If you like the science and engineering maybe computer programming would be for you. There's demand for programmers with numerical backgrounds - the programming itself is easy to learn - it's the ability with numbers that makes you stand out.

What are the pay and opportunities like in programming?

Turbulent Bill

aquascrotum wrote: »

My issue isnt with my current job, employer or workplace - its symptomatic of the opportunities within the civil engineering industry as a whole. If I don't get out now then I will turn into my current director, which is just not a life I have any intention of leading.

If you don't like the civil field as it stands, could you start 'rebranding' yourself as a technical manager rather than civil engineer? Highly numerate, wide techical background, proven problem-solving techniques etc. Focus on you broader skillset.

I don't see value in retraining yourself for a technical role in finance etc. given your experience, you'd probably end up back at grad-level pay. Better to stick at your current job and look into conversion courses or something similar in project/technical management.

scotty_irish

aquascrotum wrote: »

What are the pay and opportunities like in programming?

Programming pays decent. In the UK now so can't really comment on irish salaries, but positions here pay far better than engineers (wouldn't be difficult tbh).

I did an MSc in High Performance Computing (1 year) in Edinburgh and most of my class were from science/engineering backgrounds. Of a class of 20, I know of none who are looking for work now. Everyone who wanted to go into academia, got quick offers and most people who wanted to work were in jobs before graduation. We used to often have companies in recruiting and get loads of job ads in the email.

con1982

I can't leave for family reasons. Yes, I like what I do. The work is stimulating and there is a good atmosphere in the office.

The point for me is, I have no other qualifications and would struggle to find work. I can't afford to be unemployed.

CatFromHue wrote: »

Do you have any major commitments here in Ireland? and do you like what you do?

While you may feel you're lucky to have a job at the end of the day if you're putting more in than you're getting out what's the point?

courty08

I am due to graduate in May and have been for a long time considering going straight into another field be it through a job or masters. I have been applying for UK Civil grad programmes and if by luck I manage to get one I have a vague plan of working 2/3 years and then go and do a masters in something else. From your experiences would you advise doing this or just put all my energy into getting out of civil now?

nacimroc

courty08 wrote: »

I am due to graduate in May and have been for a long time considering going straight into another field be .....

In my opinion if you don't carry on into another course relatively quickly, it is amazing how hard it is to do after a few years. Once you get settled in with a mortgage, kids or rent etc, its hard to give up a salary for the posibile prospect of higher pay.

Max_Charger

Mother of god,this makes for depressing reading for anyone like me hoping to start an engineering course in sept...

Brian CivilEng

At the end of all of this I'll still say that when you can get the work, civil eng is a great job!

Cool croc

scotty_irish wrote: »

Most Civils I know are planning their escape. Me, I'm currently doing a PhD which will hopefully see me as a scientific programmer when I'm done. Big bro (4 years experience) is doing a Master's in Biomedical. Most of my classmates, graduated in '09, are in other industries now such as finance etc. Don't blame anyone for getting out. Engineers in Ireland and UK are over-worked, underpaid, under-appreciated. Look at continental Europe where engineers are respected, well-paid (even graduates) and have career prospects - not going to happen in Ireland/UK. Three mates working in France currently as one year graduates - all earning mid to high 30s and rarely work over 40 hours. If I ever do work as an engineer it'll be in France/Germany, not dealing with the sh*te in Ireland.

As for getting out, I'm sure you have plenty of transferable skills, I think your biggest hurdle will be convincing a potential employer that you'll will stay in the job even in the unlikely event that civil will recover - that you're not just taking the job because you can't get any better.

hey, how did your mates find out about the graduate jobs in France? I would be interested to know because I'm graduating in May as Civil Eng.

pljudge321

Max_Charger wrote: »

Mother of god,this makes for depressing reading for anyone like me hoping to start an engineering course in sept...

What branch of engineering. Chemical is as steady as ever and electronic and electrical are booming.

scotty_irish

Cool croc wrote: »

hey, how did your mates find out about the graduate jobs in France? I would be interested to know because I'm graduating in May as Civil Eng.

learn french firstly. some french companies are quite active recruiting in the UK so would have been on campus and advertising around the place. search on google too.

Max_Charger

pljudge321 wrote: »

What branch of engineering. Chemical is as steady as ever and electronic and electrical are booming.

Electrical,that gives me hope reading that anyway!

dundee80

I took voluntary redundancy and had up to 7 years experience in site engineering and consultancy. For as long as I was working as a site engineer I hated every moment of it. I had to go into work everyday pretending i was someone i was not. Trying to be ignorant and act like a bogger. Working on site alongside ignorant foremen and lads that spoke to each other and treated each other like dogs drove me away from the site work. I knew there was better out there.

Following this I worked in consultancy with a great company and great people. It was a totally different experience. I got fed up with it though, because it was very monotonous, work was drying up and I wasn't being challenged or learning new things. I am hesitant to leave engineering because I feel I didn't get a fair crack of the whip due to the down turn. I jumped at the opportunity of voluntary redundancy and got some travelling done, which was an amazing experience.

What I found about engineering was that you have to follow the work and if you plan on having a family in the future it's not ideal, if you constantly have to move around (internationally). Call me old fashioned but it's something I wouldn't be used to and i think its unnatural to be away from your family.

I looked into opportunities of getting into something else but all that bull**** of transferring skills doesn't hold up. Its now an Employers market and they are approaching universities for graduates rather than employing and retraining an experienced individual who can transfer skills. On the continent or in the states employers are more open minded about career changes. Then again they do have larger populations which makes them open to facilitate career changes.

Ive completed a postgraduate masters in business and have come to terms with having to apply for graduate positions. I'm in my 30s, it's heartbreaking but there's no future in civil engineering. My hope is to get in on a graduate programme and hopefully be fastktracked for responsibility and renumeration if I show potential. Thats the reality in Ireland today. If you are looking to get into another career then you have to do an add-on course and more than likely get into a graduate or intern programme. The boom times would have been the most ideal time to consider a career change, but that could raise the issue of when is the best time to do it!

Having travelled following redundancy, Im content in the notion that life is all about enjoying. You need to have the correct work life balance. Only work blood, sweat and tears if it's your own business. From my experience civil engineers are exploited because companies try and keep there tender prices down to win jobs. In turn this reduces the potential for other engineers to be employed and workloads for employed engineers is overwhelming.

I've considered the possibility of working in the middleast, Asia or Oz to give the engineering the last horragh, try and make money for 5 years to get set up, and then get away from it, but am not having much success as the market is swamped and am now competing with engineers internationally.

Career change is a no Brainer for me. Bye bye engineering and good riddance.

Max Moment

dundee80 wrote: »

I took voluntary redundancy and had up to 7 years experience in site engineering and consultancy. For as long as I was working as a site engineer I hated every moment of it. I had to go into work everyday pretending i was someone i was not. Trying to be ignorant and act like a bogger. Working on site alongside ignorant foremen and lads that spoke to each other and treated each other like dogs drove me away from the site work. I knew there was better out there.

Alleluia Dundee, finally someone on the same wavelength as me. I am in the same boat, have 8 years Site Engineering / Consultancy under my belt and currently working as a site engineer. It's so true, I completely despise the role as you say you make yourself some you are not to do your job which is wrong on so many levels. I am sick of pig ignorant foremen and workers who have no respect for you or indeed themselves! If someone sat me down 12 years ago when I was starting college and explained the role I would have ran a mile. You go through a very tough education to become and Engineer where there are other careers which are far easier to get into and have a much better work / life balance. Again, hindsight is a great thing!

I would like to think that there is much better out there but at the moment I can see nothing and am at a loss as to which direction to take myself. Yeh I know, there will be loads of people saying that 'you should be grateful to have a job' and yes I am, but there's more to life and all that. I would love to try branch in to a new career but can not risk it currently for financial reasons in case it does not work out.

I am 30 myself and feel in someways I have wasted the last 12 years training and working as an Engineer as I seem to be at a dead end and now is the time for a change.

Anyways, best of luck Dundee with your new career direction. Keep us posted on how you get on...

A Primal Nut

If you are going to back to college the easiest thing for Civil Engineers would probably be to move into another branch of engineering - programming, telecoms, electrical; etc. I am sure they will still take your experience into account!

Also consider a masters in Project Management, or even rebranding yourself as a project manager on your cv if you have done that kind of work in the past. That way you can keep all your experience from your previous job but still work in something different, another branch of engineering.

Greengekko

Hi all,

I came across this thread and found it interesting as I have thoughts from working in engineering. Doing 60+ hours a week and employer just turns around and expects you to do more. No matter how much you do your never get the recognition. Not that one would be looking for a pat on the back walking out the gate every evening, but even just getting normal working hours where you can have a decent work life balance.

Just wondering in the end what did you decide to do? did you take up a different career?

godtabh

Greengekko wrote: »

Hi all,

I came across this thread and found it interesting as I have thoughts from working in engineering. Doing 60+ hours a week and employer just turns around and expects you to do more. No matter how much you do your never get the recognition. Not that one would be looking for a pat on the back walking out the gate every evening, but even just getting normal working hours where you can have a decent work life balance.

Just wondering in the end what did you decide to do? did you take up a different career?

Maybe you arent working for the right company?

Greengekko

@Gotabh - I believe you work with a consultancy. A lot different to main contractor work. you may not have had similar experience to the majority of engineers I have worked with/ spoken to where working hours did not reflect pay or the personal time missed due to long commutes after work. Im not sure if there is a union who soley represents engineers/site managers? anyway was just interested how this persons career path turned out.

Wildly Boaring

What's your experience?
Years / level / type of civils?

I've worked contractor and consultancy bsck and forth a couple times.

The point above is right.
You may just be with the wrong company.
It is not a contractor v consultancy thing. There are actually consultancies that are worse then any contractor.

If you like your work there is the right company out there for you.

It's an employee's market right now and in my opinon you need to use that to get in somewhere you're appreciated. The next downturn will come. It's unavoidable and if you are somewhere you don't like you will be completely stuck.

Also bear in mind that a lot of the states and semi states are hiring mad right now. Councils, Irish water, waterways, ESB, TII. None will pay the best in an upturn but lovely to have the solidity. And none are the retirement home they are made out to be. Well maybe waterways??

Greengekko

3 years experience with large civil/building contractors - Industrial, healthcare and roads. Im currently with a decent company at the moment.
it is and it isnt, i found during the downturn that site management were dispensable in the eyes of employers as you could be replaced tomorrow with another engineer.
Ya local authority would be a decent choice will consider in future, it was an option earlier.

Wildly Boaring

Well one thing I'd say is 3 years isn't that long, straight from college I assume.

Do you see progression?
Very important if you are putting in those 60 hour weeks we all had to do that you are progressing.

See it myself the whole time. People who put in all the effort but don't get beyond engineer. That 60 hour week needs to get to a site managers position. Once at that level you will have more chances to move within civils.

It doesn't need to be manager on large scale. My first site was 2m, second 600k, third 1m.

Dealing with lot of LA lads now and the good ones are genuinely busy and enjoying it. Advice from a cousin who's in there years is to get in now during an upturn. They lose people to industry and of course they have more positions anyway. Sure none were hiring at all in downturn. Once in cant be sacked.

Personally I'd be looking more at ESB, bord gais and Irish water if I wanted that sort of work. More scope to advance career wise.

sk777

Civil engineering is a terrible and soul crushing career. If you are young get out of it. When in school and college people tell you, you will be rich and respected as a civil engineer. You will be neither. When you start to work as an engineer you will see that even senior management cannot afford to buy lunch every day and take miserable bags of sandwiches in to work every day. I have worked it in for years and my friends who dropped out of school and partied instead of working their a**es off during college earn more money than me now in basic jobs. I really wish I had never gone to college and enjoyed my life when I was young.
To give you an example, after about 10 years of working as a civil engineer (you will need to have a degree and masters before that), you will be earning about the same as a newly qualified accountant and they will get benefits which you can forget about.
Salaries are very poor all of the time, in good times you can expect your salary to go up a couple of grand a year. In good economic conditions there will be high demand, so a lot of consultancies get unqualified people to do a lot of the work and get an engineer to sign off on it. It is always a race to the bottom on tenders too so there is no hope of a good margin on jobs. In recessions engineers will be the first to go as capital spending always cut instead of reducing public sector pay. If you do get a job in the public sector, you will probably end up taking orders from someone with no qualifications and no engineering experience.
Many of my class who graduated over 10 years ago have tried desperately to get out of engineering, but recruiters look for experience in similar roles so no hope of escape. Oh yeah, you probably wont get a pension either so you better die before you're 65.

Greengekko

sk777 wrote: »

Civil engineering is a terrible and soul crushing career. If you are young get out of it. When in school and college people tell you, you will be rich and respected as a civil engineer. You will be neither. When you start to work as an engineer you will see that even senior management cannot afford to buy lunch every day and take miserable bags of sandwiches in to work every day. I have worked it in for years and my friends who dropped out of school and partied instead of working their a**es off during college earn more money than me now in basic jobs. I really wish I had never gone to college and enjoyed my life when I was young.
To give you an example, after about 10 years of working as a civil engineer (you will need to have a degree and masters before that), you will be earning about the same as a newly qualified accountant and they will get benefits which you can forget about.
Salaries are very poor all of the time, in good times you can expect your salary to go up a couple of grand a year. In good economic conditions there will be high demand, so a lot of consultancies get unqualified people to do a lot of the work and get an engineer to sign off on it. It is always a race to the bottom on tenders too so there is no hope of a good margin on jobs. In recessions engineers will be the first to go as capital spending always cut instead of reducing public sector pay. If you do get a job in the public sector, you will probably end up taking orders from someone with no qualifications and no engineering experience.
Many of my class who graduated over 10 years ago have tried desperately to get out of engineering, but recruiters look for experience in similar roles so no hope of escape. Oh yeah, you probably wont get a pension either so you better die before you're 65.

hahahah the last part, but yes all you said is nothing but the truth. I wouldnt advise anyone to do engineering

The Rape of Lucretia

sk777 wrote: »

Civil engineering is a terrible and soul crushing career. If you are young get out of it. When in school and college people tell you, you will be rich and respected as a civil engineer. You will be neither. When you start to work as an engineer you will see that even senior management cannot afford to buy lunch every day and take miserable bags of sandwiches in to work every day. I have worked it in for years and my friends who dropped out of school and partied instead of working their a**es off during college earn more money than me now in basic jobs. I really wish I had never gone to college and enjoyed my life when I was young.
To give you an example, after about 10 years of working as a civil engineer (you will need to have a degree and masters before that), you will be earning about the same as a newly qualified accountant and they will get benefits which you can forget about.
Salaries are very poor all of the time, in good times you can expect your salary to go up a couple of grand a year. In good economic conditions there will be high demand, so a lot of consultancies get unqualified people to do a lot of the work and get an engineer to sign off on it. It is always a race to the bottom on tenders too so there is no hope of a good margin on jobs. In recessions engineers will be the first to go as capital spending always cut instead of reducing public sector pay. If you do get a job in the public sector, you will probably end up taking orders from someone with no qualifications and no engineering experience.
Many of my class who graduated over 10 years ago have tried desperately to get out of engineering, but recruiters look for experience in similar roles so no hope of escape. Oh yeah, you probably wont get a pension either so you better die before you're 65.

You have to be with one of the big firms to be able to afford to bring miserable bags of sandwiches with you - we can all dream of that. With us, most of us are only eating with what we get from the StVdP or at one of the drop in centres. Impossible to afford any decent accommodation - it was only because three of us got promoted recently that we were able to get a group of 8 of us to move out of the squat, and club together to share the rent in a 2 bed terraced house. It works OK though because we arent all on the same shift and can rotate the beds. Worst was recently where one lads mother died and he couldnt afford to get home to the funeral. 18 years an engineer, and career progressing very well. We all chipped in for him, and to be fair to our company, they made up the difference so that he could get a return ticket to Athlone.
The bottom line is though, that we love being engineers and arent really in it for the money.

onrail

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

You have to be with one of the big firms to be able to afford to bring miserable bags of sandwiches with you - we can all dream of that. With us, most of us are only eating with what we get from the StVdP or at one of the drop in centres. Impossible to afford any decent accommodation - it was only because three of us got promoted recently that we were able to get a group of 8 of us to move out of the squat, and club together to share the rent in a 2 bed terraced house. It works OK though because we arent all on the same shift and can rotate the beds. Worst was recently where one lads mother died and he couldnt afford to get home to the funeral. 18 years an engineer, and career progressing very well. We all chipped in for him, and to be fair to our company, they made up the difference so that he could get a return ticket to Athlone.
The bottom line is though, that we love being engineers and arent really in it for the money.

What industry are you in?