Directors who fell from grace

Sad Professor · 30-01-2012 9:50pm

I liked the new colour timing in The French Connection. It just wasn't done as well as it should have been - there's too much bleeding.

It still got blown out of all proportion. Roizman's ego was hurt by the fact that Friedkin didn't consult him, hence the big controversy with people making ridiculous comparisons to Lucas. Many films have had their colour re-timed for Blu-ray. Afaik anytime they go back to the original negative they have to re-create the colour timing. Sometimes the director decides he wants a different look. Fincher completely re-timed Se7en for DVD and nobody ever talks about that.

OldeCinemaSoz · 30-01-2012 9:53pm

I just hope THE EXORCIST dosen't get
the same treatment THE FRENCH CONNECTION
did.

Regan puking blue or red...??? :rolleyes:

Sad Professor · 30-01-2012 10:01pm

I haven't seen it, but yeah it was re-timed, although under Roizman's supervision this time. Afaik it's close enough to the original look. It was a far better looking film than The French Connection to begin with.

OldeCinemaSoz · 30-01-2012 10:07pm

i watched the exorcist in the spring of '83.

and curiously the two most affecting scenes were
the bit in the attic and the outside scenes before
we all get into the stage bound sets.

it's still a great film i think.

Dempsey · 31-01-2012 12:39am

krudler wrote: »

there's a perfect example at 1min40 into this clip:

Joaquin Phoenix is walking along the porch, 2 seconds later the monster appears and doesnt see him, he would have been standing 5 feet away! its like stuff only exists when in the frame of the shot.

SVG wrote: »

Ha! That's amazing.

I suppose I never think about these things in films like that- like when Batman can appear and disappear out of nowhere. There's a certain suspension of disbelief.

I always thought that technique was to signify that the character isnt fully aware of their surroundings.

Theboinkmaster · 31-01-2012 11:15am

Technocentral wrote: »

Nonsense, He made four of his best in the last 20 years:

2005 Munich
2002 Minority Report
1998 Saving Private Ryan
1993 Schindler's List

I think schindlers list was his last great film, by his own standards. Saving private ryan is a poor film, especially when compared to his earlier works. Minority report was muck and munich was just OK imo.

ET, Raiders of the lost ark, Jaws etc -vs- saving private ryan :rolleyes:

krudler · 31-01-2012 11:33am

Sad Professor wrote: »

I liked the new colour timing in The French Connection. It just wasn't done as well as it should have been - there's too much bleeding.

It still got blown out of all proportion. Roizman's ego was hurt by the fact that Friedkin didn't consult him, hence the big controversy with people making ridiculous comparisons to Lucas. Many films have had their colour re-timed for Blu-ray. Afaik anytime they go back to the original negative they have to re-create the colour timing. Sometimes the director decides he wants a different look. Fincher completely re-timed Se7en for DVD and nobody ever talks about that.

some of the Bond ultimate editions got a colour retiming as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fkDGlngvw4

retiming works when its done well, like in O Brother Where Art Thou, where its intentional to give the movie a sepia toned depression era look, and drain all the colour of the shots, then there's Michael Bay movies, where everything is either blue or orange.

D-FENS · 31-01-2012 12:04pm

Jonathan Demme for me, never really followed up on the great success of The Silence of the Lambs.

Philadelphia was a decent effort, Tom Hanks and Bruce Springsteen did well out of it but it didn’t even make the final five for best picture at the Oscars, amazing considering The Fugitive did.

He apparently turned down directing Hannibal citing it would never be as good, few could argue with him there.

The Manchurian Candidate did ok but all in all a poor return after the year he had in ‘91. I know Oscars success isn't everything in terms of artistic quality, but nothing he's done since has come close to 'Lambs

I have read he's going to write, direct and produce Stephen King's '11/22/63' for the big screen.
The book was a return to form for King as far as i'm concerned so fingers crossed it will bring Demme similar luck.

Underdraft · 31-01-2012 1:02pm

William Friedkin : The French Connection, The Exorcist, Sorcerer and then ...................

Rob Reiner : This Is Spinal Tap, The Sure Thing, Stand by Me, The Princess Bride, When Harry Met Sally, Misery and then .....

I think more directors than not who make some good movies early on fall under this category. It is after all a job and you have to take what you're given if you want to stay working. Also there probably isn't the same fire there anymore to make great movies and fight the system as there would be when they were younger and had something to prove.

I think Bridget Bardot's character said something about this in the movie 'Le Mépris'. Something along the line of "In France we see a director make one good movie and we celebrate him forever, but in America a director is only judged by how good his previous movie or total output was".

I'd tend to agree with the French philosophy.

mikhail · 31-01-2012 2:34pm

Underdraft wrote: »

I think Bridget Bardot's character said something about this in the movie 'Le Mépris'. Something along the line of "In France we see a director make one good movie and we celebrate him forever, but in America a director is only judged by how good his previous movie or total output was".

There's something similar said in the commentary track on For a Few Dollars More. Something along the lines of: "In Europe, they remember your best film, in America, your last one." It was in relation to Leone's casting of Lee Van Cleef who was barely scraping a living (if even) from some occasional TV work, but who he remembered from his film work in the 50s.

JP Liz V1 · 31-01-2012 5:07pm

Has Don Roos been mentioned yet

He wrote and directed really good film The Opposite of Sex and then nothing

indough · 31-01-2012 7:06pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Nolan is guilty of this as well. Like in TDK when Batman appears right next to the Joker during Dent's fundraiser.

he is meant to be a ninja though

Nolanger · 31-01-2012 7:08pm

What about Hal Hartley? Hasn't been heard of for about 15 years. One of the most acclaimed directors in the 1990s.

SVG · 31-01-2012 7:21pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Has Don Roos been mentioned yet

He wrote and directed really good film The Opposite of Sex and then nothing

I quite liked Happy Endings but I haven't seen any of the stuff he's done since then.

Sad Professor · 01-02-2012 3:33am

Another one: Michael Powell. One of the greats of early British cinema. Made a bunch of brilliant films: The Red Shoes, A Matter of Life and Death, Black Narcissus, etc. Then he made Peeping Tom, which was so controversial it destroyed his career.

Mellor · 01-02-2012 4:31am

Sad Professor wrote: »

Nolan is guilty of this as well. Like in TDK when Batman appears right next to the Joker during Dent's fundraiser.

Youtube link or it never happened

SVG wrote: »

Ha! That's amazing.

I suppose I never think about these things in films like that- like when Batman can appear and disappear out of nowhere. There's a certain suspension of disbelief.

Batman is disappearing via stealth. It's a part of the character.

The shot above, the timing is really bad. Joaquin and everyone else was looking in the direction of the monster. THe speed it was walking at means it wasn't far away. He would of seen the monster, adn the monster would of seen him.

/You could say that the monster chose not to see him. But that isn't the case imo.

Dempsey wrote: »

I always thought that technique was to signify that the character isnt fully aware of their surroundings.

The technique is used for lots of purposes. There is nothing wrong with the technique itself. But M.night Shalabmumham uses very extreme examples that ruin visual continuity.

mike65 · 01-02-2012 12:10pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Another one: Michael Powell. One of the greats of early British cinema. Made a bunch of brilliant films: The Red Shoes, A Matter of Life and Death, Black Narcissus, etc. Then he made Peeping Tom, which was so controversial it destroyed his career.

Probably the ultimate example of becoming an untouchable, outside of political dictatorships. His only feature films post exile, both made in Australia They're a Weird Mob and Age of Consent, are worth seeing if you ever get the chance.

JP Liz V1 · 01-02-2012 12:26pm

Nolanger wrote: »

What about Hal Hartley? Hasn't been heard of for about 15 years. One of the most acclaimed directors in the 1990s.

I really liked Amateur

Nolanger · 01-02-2012 10:42pm

A lot of directors go downhill even though they're still successful when they move to Hollywood e.g. Peter Weir. His early stuff is more interesting.

Syferus · 02-02-2012 1:37am

Mellor wrote: »

The shot above, the timing is really bad. Joaquin and everyone else was looking in the direction of the monster. THe speed it was walking at means it wasn't far away. He would of seen the monster, adn the monster would of seen him.
/You could say that the monster chose not to see him. But that isn't the case imo.

I have to believe that in that instance, it has to have been a pretty cute tip of the hat rather than simply a cheap chill.

It would have served no story or logical purpose if the 'monster' injured him.

Just because a director is prone to ignore negative space doesn't mean he always does it for the same reasons.

Mellor · 02-02-2012 2:26am

As I said, you can dismiss the monster not seeing him once you know the reality.
But Joaquin not seeing him walking up is a bit stupid.

OldeCinemaSoz · 02-02-2012 4:01pm

Wasn't Cronenberg a bit downgraded after CRASH?

pickarooney · 02-02-2012 4:35pm

At this stage I'm not counting on Luc Besson ever making a good film again

02-02-2012 4:39pm

pickarooney wrote: »

At this stage I'm not counting on Luc Besson ever making a good film again

He's directed two very good films in the past year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgXJY7tY-fo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMYAzQC3UjI

paddyismaddy · 02-02-2012 6:15pm

what has olivier stone done recently? dont hear much about him anymore

Sad Professor · 02-02-2012 6:46pm

Jim Sheridan. His early Irish/British independent films were excellent. The Field, My Left Foot, In the Name of the Father, In America, The Boxer. Then he went to Hollywood and oh my, what a mistake that was. First he made that horrible 50 Cent rap film, then he made Brothers, a pointless remake of a far superior Danish film. And then last year he directed *shudder* Dream House, which was so bad he tried to have his name removed from it.

blatantrereg · 02-02-2012 6:47pm

I think Cronenberg has done better stuff since Crash. Eastern Promises was particularly good I thought. However I can see why some people would be disappointed with his direction, since his films are getting less weird. If you like very weird films you must be sad about it.

Brian De Palma is another one. Making Mission Impossible was a clear way of announcing "k that's enough good movies - I'm going to spew out any old sh!te from now on."

Nolanger · 02-02-2012 7:47pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Jim Sheridan. His early Irish/British independent films were excellent. The Field, My Left Foot, In the Name of the Father, In America, The Boxer. Then he went to Hollywood and oh my, what a mistake that was. First he made that horrible 50 Cent rap film, then he made Brothers, a pointless remake of a far superior Danish film. And then last year he directed *shudder* Dream House, which was so bad he tried to have his name removed from it.

He's a TV director that got lucky but was found out eventually. Sad thing is he's still better than our current crop of film directors.

Sad Professor · 02-02-2012 10:31pm

Sheridan is a stylistically no-frills director, but I wouldn't describe him having his films hacked to pieces by a bunch of overzealous studio executives as being "found out". He made some bad choices, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he made several excellent films. Admittedly though, having recently endured such cack as The Guard, I may be looking at him from an "come back, all is forgiven" perspective.

pixelburp · 03-02-2012 12:12am

I realise there's already a video posted about it, but reading the unpopular opinions thread got me thinking - what about George Lucas? Surely there's no better example of a pronounced fall from grace.

There's no shortage of rants, editorials and opinions showing up his deficiencies as both a director & creative visionary in the modern age - god knows there's good reason for it - but it's easy to forget that back in 1977 he was a young auteur that seemed to have an eye for a good movie and had a bright future ahead of him (even if people predicted Star Wars to bomb). He did after all direct & write THX 1138, American Graffiti & definitely had talent. And as much as we like to castigate the franchise now, Star Wars was/is a classic; a fairytale retold in a revolutionary format. And if you include his producing work for things like Raiders of the Lost Ark, it adds up to something of a disparity between that & the figure he eventually became. Maybe his story is the most dramatic of all falls from grace: from young, home-movie auteur to creatively bankrupt millionaire

Directors who fell from grace

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