Alu Clad and Sash Windows

Patrick L

Hi there, we have recently started a new build house and like every one else these days we are seeking the impossible! Ideally we want the best quality but at the same time we also want the best price! The front of the house will be Sash with the remainder Alu Clad, including two large sliding doors. Anyone out there with recent experience? Anyone going offshore (UK?) to source. Any leads, suggestions, ideas would be very welcome. Thanks

Thepadjo

Whereabouts are u

New build in sight

I really wish you had some resposnes to this question! We too would like to consider sliding sash windows to the front of the house but I am struggling to find anywhere in Ireland that is competitive on price.
I did find a company in the UK Mainland that were competive even when shipping is added to the quote it works out OK but i would rather get the windows from Ireland or NI if possible in case there are issues. Has anyone any advice out there on Sash windows and costs?

gears

Competitive can be a relative term, unless its a commodity item, and when it comes to windows especially sliding sash windows which are at the higher end of pricing any quality window will be very expensive and somewhat justifiably so with the extra work involved in making one. I can think of one exception to this where the company has built a high end window brand with some excellent marketing and while they make a good product their prices are over the top, in my opinion, for what they offer and if you are looking at alu-clad sash windows I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. My advice is to look again at your windows as sliding sash are not the most efficient window design and talk to companies offering a high spec or passive alu-clad window.
PM sent

SuePal

Try <reading the forum charter before posting again>. Declan is really good and supplies both sliding sash and aluclad windows. He also offers a range of glazing and insulation types. I found him very good.

New build in sight

We've had several quotes now back for the exact same window value etc. And there is litterally a 40% difference with some places!

I really don't know how some places feel they can continue to quote such ridiculous prices. I was recomended a few places through here, (i wont mention company names)

My advice to everyone is shop around!

laois hibby

The reason sliding sash's are so much cheaper in the uk is because the timber components are stock items from any timber supplier, where as in ireland the manufacturers have to make them themselves.

New build in sight

laois hibby wrote: »

The reason sliding sash's are so much cheaper in the uk is because the timber components are stock items from any timber supplier, where as in ireland the manufacturers have to make them themselves.

The quotes i am referring to are within the ROI and NOT the UK. I have had quotes from the UK too which were very competitive but we are anxious spending so much on something from the UK in case there are problems. The quotes we have received have come from various counties across Ireland from major window suppliers. We had a quote locally that was 40% cheaper than a place in teh West of Ireland for the exact same quality and style. In fact we prefer the style of the cheaper quote!

If you want the names of the companies who i dealt with feel free to PM me.

Patrick L

gears wrote: »

Competitive can be a relative term, unless its a commodity item, and when it comes to windows especially sliding sash windows which are at the higher end of pricing any quality window will be very expensive and somewhat justifiably so with the extra work involved in making one. I can think of one exception to this where the company has built a high end window brand with some excellent marketing and while they make a good product their prices are over the top, in my opinion, for what they offer and if you are looking at alu-clad sash windows I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. My advice is to look again at your windows as sliding sash are not the most efficient window design and talk to companies offering a high spec or passive alu-clad window.
PM sent

Many thanks for your help, much appreciated

Patrick L

New build in sight wrote: »

The quotes i am referring to are within the ROI and NOT the UK. I have had quotes from the UK too which were very competitive but we are anxious spending so much on something from the UK in case there are problems. The quotes we have received have come from various counties across Ireland from major window suppliers. We had a quote locally that was 40% cheaper than a place in teh West of Ireland for the exact same quality and style. In fact we prefer the style of the cheaper quote!

If you want the names of the companies who i dealt with feel free to PM me.

Hi there,

I posted the original thread ... I ended up going with <SNIP> for all my windows, they source the Sash in the UK from a sister Company <SNIP>, thanks for responding, Patrick L


Mod edit: Please read the forum charter. We dont allow business names to be posted. The name can be PM'd to anyone who is interested.

New build in sight

Patrick L wrote: »

Hi there,

I posted the original thread ... I ended up going with <SNIP> for all my windows, they source the Sash in the UK from a sister Company <SNIP>, thanks for responding, Patrick L


Mod edit: Please read the forum charter. We dont allow business names to be posted. The name can be PM'd to anyone who is interested.

Can you PM me who you went with in the UK out of curiousity please?

DanGerMus

any chance you could pm me details of these companys.

tyres

Any chance you could PM me details of suppliers of sash windows also...regards tyres

New build in sight

I don't recall seeing a PM from Patrick L re; sash windows and who he went with. Perhaps you could resend Patrick L to the other guys looking for a PM.

We have narrowed our search down to 2/3. And we have decided to keep it local in the end.

snglovesjb

Can anyone send me suppliers who are being referred to here please, thanks

eddie

Ye please PM me too.

eddie

I know its the charter ( and I am not going to break it ) but is seems a little crazy that because of it, one message is snipped and generates a load of PM requests... which can then take ages to get the required information... uk.diy is quite good if you want an answer now.. and sometines covers "irish" products/companies. I'm just saying.......

muffler

eddie wrote: »

I know its the charter ( and I am not going to break it ) but is seems a little crazy that because of it, one message is snipped and generates a load of PM requests... which can then take ages to get the required information... uk.diy is quite good if you want an answer now.. and sometines covers "irish" products/companies. I'm just saying.......

What is even more crazier is the number of people who are prepared to look for details of a recommendation posted by someone who has 1 single post in the C & P forum.

eddie

muffler wrote: »

What is even more crazier is the number of people who are prepared to look for details of a recommendation posted by someone who has 1 single post in the C & P forum.

Yes... totally see your point...

BUT>>>>

In fairness, I think anyone seeking a recommendation is going to look a lot more than one opinion... the problem is that when you are new to a product you may not know ANYONE in that field at which point any lead is a good start...

Insisting that all discussion is via PM is odd for a forum.... BUT it is Boards.ie forum and they make the rules... they dont have to make sense or be practical, you dont have to like them or agree with them, just have to adhere to them..

muffler

eddie wrote: »

In fairness, I think anyone seeking a recommendation is going to look a lot more than one opinion... the problem is that when you are new to a product you may not know ANYONE in that field at which point any lead is a good start

Just using this thread and topic as an example to explain how things have panned out. First of all the OP was looking for "Any leads, suggestions, ideas" in respect of Alu clad windows. Those windows aren't a new revolution and there are various suppliers around the country and really and truly I would expect people to do their homework before deciding to come on to any discussion forum. Thats what I would do personally.

One poster, New build in sight, did exactly what I would consider good practice by getting various quotes and then posted their experience. However they did advise other to shop around. Discussing the product is fine but when we have people who would use and abuse the thread to shill or spam then we need to make sure that our members aren't being deliberately misled.

eddie wrote: »

Insisting that all discussion is via PM is odd for a forum.... BUT it is Boards.ie forum and they make the rules... they dont have to make sense or be practical, you dont have to like them or agree with them, just have to adhere to them..

Your opinion and you are more than entitled to express it. But let me elaborate a little. What you wont see in this thread for example is the very first reply which is now deleted and the poster permanently site banned for spamming. These type of threads attract shills and spammers and that is why we have our forum charter worded and enforced in such a way that we can protect the wider public from these people.

We have a unique forum in that we dont generally allow business names to be posted. One of the main reasons for that is to prevent the threads being filled with posts from people who sign up just to pimp their product or to promote a friends business etc etc. Here is an old post of mine which pretty much sums up our position.

eddie

muffler wrote: »

Just using this thread and topic as an example to explain how things have panned out. First of all the OP was looking for "Any leads, suggestions, ideas" in respect of Alu clad windows. Those windows aren't a new revolution and there are various suppliers around the country and really and truly I would expect people to do their homework before deciding to come on to any discussion forum. Thats what I would do personally.

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I think that is where the problem in my view is .. I was expecting to use the forum as a discussion area,,.. like down the "construction" pub with m8s... where you ask "anyone and experience with.."? and then you can learn... and find out who they used and how much it cost...

I cant really see the point of wandering in to the mates and telling them , "getting a new kitchen BUT I am NOT telling you who from or who was most expensive or cheapest or best quality or even who was recommend to me or who's installation I had seen.

Come to think of it ther would not really be any point in going to the "construction pub" because I am not going to learn anything having done all of my research. !!

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One poster, New build in sight, did exactly what I would consider good practice by getting various quotes and then posted their experience. However they did advise other to shop around. Discussing the product is fine but when we have people who would use and abuse the thread to shill or spam then we need to make sure that our members aren't being deliberately misled.

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I can totally see that... but I think peer pressure is going to take care of that... the shillers are soon spotted and in the "construction pub" as more people become regulars because they learn here, they will give the shillers and spammers short shift.

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Your opinion and you are more than entitled to express it. But let me elaborate a little. What you wont see in this thread for example is the very first reply which is now deleted and the poster permanently site banned for spamming. These type of threads attract shills and spammers and that is why we have our forum charter worded and enforced in such a way that we can protect the wider public from these people.

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When you think about it , this is why so many threads die so quickly.. because we cannot discuss the type and merits of different contractors. I undersdand that Boards are little "gunshy" after the MCD debacle but could that not be sorted with a clause that members are responsible for what they write.... or better, unmoderated, peer reviewed forums..

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We have a unique forum in that we dont generally allow business names to be posted. One of the main reasons for that is to prevent the threads being filled with posts from people who sign up just to pimp their product or to promote a friends business etc etc. Here is an old post of mine which pretty much sums up our position.

The unique part is that we are expected to have the research done to come discuss it, but if we have the research done we would not bother coming... ( which also means, i=overall less visitors,.

I understand the position, I am just saying it like have a Porsche and keeping in in an undergorund cave..... it is still there but highly limited. !

Thank you for taking the time to disocuss the point and listen to my arguments.

Meerz

snglovesjb wrote: »

Can anyone send me suppliers who are being referred to here please, thanks

I too would love to know some suppliers that are good value. If anyone would care to PM me?

We have bought a house that has old sash windows in it that need replacing. So we will definitely be buying some windows in the coming months.

We have email around and the lack of interest from some suppliers is unbelievable. No recession round there!! :rolleyes:

howman

would appreciate a PM with details of alu clad suppliers people have found to be competitively priced, high quality and easy to work with

Patrick L

Hi there,

If you send me your email address I'll share my experience ....... paddy

joeirish

So I've been doing a lot of research into alu clad windows but there is little real information out there. Maybe somebody of the forum can add to my knowledge.

I found one academic (and therefore I assume unbiased) paper Menzies, G. F. (2013). Whole Life Analysis of timber, modified timber and aluminium-clad timber windows:Service Life Planning (SLP), Whole Life Costing (WLC) and Life Cycle Assessment (LCA). Edinburgh: Heriot-Watt University. Unfortunately the author is currently away so I can't get any more information. But it does show that on many measures alu clad is the best option for windows these days. But here is the issue I have come across.

Under the cladding the timber frame may be subject to rot. This is bound to happen eventually regardless of which preservative system is used. But you can't see the rot starting because of the cladding and therefore cannot deal with it at an early stage. Companies tend to use the flow coated method these days to apply preservative which seeps into the wood. One company uses a vacuum systems to impregnate the timber up to 5 mm and this is the amount the standards say gives the best protection. Unfortunately I really do not like the aluminium profile so I am caught.

Does anybody know how important the application of preservative is to the longevity of the timber, does it matter which method is used. Any actual experiences of alu clad windows that have been installed over ten years or have they not been around that long.

Thanks

fatty pang

The study you’ve quoted was sponsored by the Wood Window Alliance so there is a vested interest involved but in saying that Gillian Menzies probably has as much academic expertise as anybody in the UK on this subject.
There are different types of what are commonly called ‘alu-clad’ windows – alu-clad timber, composite aluminium/timber and ...err alu-clad plastic (don't ask).
I’ll assume that your concerns are about alu-clad timber. Without the cladding the paint system would need periodic maintenance - the cladding is essentially a rain-screen and its sole purpose is to minimise the external maintenance regime. Remove the cladding and you should have a fully functional window (in contrast to a composite window where removing the aluminium will leave you with…. half a window, or thereabouts).
This being so the construction of the basic timber window is very important. The design should minimise the possibilities for water ingress and maximise the opportunities for water drainage away from the window – particularly in our climate. The principal is the same for all timber construction – do it properly and timber will last for years as evidenced by the Stave churches in Norway. There are numerous different window profiles and obviously some are better than others in conforming with these principals
The preservative treatment is particularly important. BS8417 ‘Preservation of wood - Code of practice’, notes that in order to achieve a desired service life of at least 60 years for external joinery then preservative treated timber will need a preservative lateral penetration depth of 6mm (x10 longitudinal). The flow coated treatments provide circa 1.5mm penetration.
I can assure that there is certainly more than one manufacturer using vacuum impregnation and rot is not ‘bound to happen eventually’ in timber windows. Get good timber windows, maintain them properly (they all need some maintenance despite the sales bull) and they should last for several generations.
Alu-clad timber windows have been produced for at least 30 years to my knowledge.

joeirish

Thanks for the information. Yes I realised that this paper author was sponsored by the WWA and in fact at least one of her references was also funded by a window manufacturer! The problems of trying to get impartial information! I also read the information relating to BS8417 and contacted all the manufacturers on our short list (5 of them). Not one of them produce windows to this standard, even the one who said they vacuum treat. Now if I could find any manufacturer who could show they make window frames to this standard then I would probably go with them. if you know of any, or even names of those who vacuum treat their timber could you PM me? But so far none of the companies in Ireland I have contacted, bar one, use vacuum treatment.

As to the importance of the cladding and how it is attached, I have that information. My concern about rot happening eventually (I have a timber cruiser so I know what can happen to wood if you don't keep on top of the maintenance) is that if you can't see the state of the timber because of the cladding then you can't take remedial action. I'm 61 now. I don't want to have to be replacing windows in 20 years time when I will be on a pension and have no funds for that type of thing. Hence my concern on this.

Thanks again and if yo can PM names of companies that vacuum treat their window frames then that would be great.

joeirish

So had to make a decision yesterday and went with the only company I knew who told me that they vacuum treat their timber. Hopefully this will give the level of protection I want.

PQ27

Hi all,
Am currently sourcing Aluclad windows in Ireland and would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experience with any of the companies currently supplying them. If you want to private message me with details of the particular companies and how you found the quality, price and service, that would be great.
Thanks

joeirish

I have sent you a PM. But you might like to take a look at another forum called ebuild.co.uk where you are allowed to mention companies and suppliers. Lots of Irish contributions and also references to Irish products including alu clad windows. Interestingly if you buy in NI or UK using an Irish vat regsitered business for invoices you don't pay the VAT on the imports. I didn't realise until too late so have paid VAT on my windows.

fatty pang

joeirish wrote: »

I have sent you a PM. But you might like to take a look at another forum called ebuild.co.uk where you are allowed to mention companies and suppliers. .

The prohibition on naming suppliers only seems to apply to windows for some bizarre reason. Unfortunately it leaves consumers at the mercy of the sales rep.