fined while on the phone

roy rodgers

I got stopped by the cops for being on the phone and fair enough I took it on the chin and except how stupid I was for doing it.
But when the fine came in the door it has my correct surname but the wrong forename..
Now should I except this fine and pay it or should I contest this in court as the wrong name is on it.

Delancey

My advice would be to pay it , tbh people tend to place far too much significance on minor clerical errors than is warranted.

MyKeyG

roy rodgers wrote: »

I got stopped by the cops for being on the phone and fair enough I took it on the chin and except how stupid I was for doing it.
But when the fine came in the door it has my correct surname but the wrong forename..
Now should I except this fine and pay it or should I contest this in court as the wrong name is on it.

Ultimately there will be no contest. The judge will most likely amend the fine and rule that it be paid once it's established that you're the person in question which will be proven by your drivers licence.

source

Agree completely with the above, minor clerical errors don't change the fact the incident happened.

By letting it go to court and trying to fight it on such a minor point, you could wind up with the higher points and fine.

ResearchWill

I know of one judge in the Circuit Court, on district court appeals, who has in open court stated that he will ban someone for this. Pay the fine, it will be a lot cheaper than a day or maybe 2 if you have to appeal in court.

Keyzer

roy rodgers wrote: »

I got stopped by the cops for being on the phone and fair enough I took it on the chin and except how stupid I was for doing it.
But when the fine came in the door it has my correct surname but the wrong forename..
Now should I except this fine and pay it or should I contest this in court as the wrong name is on it.

Just take some responsibility and pay the bloody fine ffs (you were in the wrong and you've admitted it) - you're attitude of trying to get out of paying the fine sickens me...

deadwood

Keyzer wrote: »

Just take some responsibility and pay the bloody fine ffs (you were in the wrong and you've admitted it) - you're attitude of trying to get out of paying the fine sickens me...

SSSSSSSssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhh.

Are you TRYING to put solicitors out of business?

the culture of deference

roy rodgers wrote: »

I got stopped by the cops for being on the phone and fair enough I took it on the chin and except how stupid I was for doing it.
But when the fine came in the door it has my correct surname but the wrong forename..
Now should I except this fine and pay it or should I contest this in court as the wrong name is on it.

from the UK

• Jimmy Carr - cleared of using a mobile phone while driving at Harrow Magistrates Court after his councel argued that Carr had used the dictation setting of his iPhone to record a joke as he drove and that using the phone for such a purpose was not illegal under current law.[15]

tricky D

If you go to court as is your right, the judge will simply cross out the incorrect name, insert the correct name and give as big a fine and as many points as possible for wasting the Court's time. They hate that kinda stuff.

Galwayguy35

roy rodgers wrote: »

I got stopped by the cops for being on the phone and fair enough I took it on the chin and except how stupid I was for doing it.
But when the fine came in the door it has my correct surname but the wrong forename..
Now should I except this fine and pay it or should I contest this in court as the wrong name is on it.

Talk to a solicitor about it and see what he/she says. I know someone who had a fine/points thrown out of court beause the wrong townland was put down as the area where he was caught for speeding. Fair play you held your hands up and admitted your mistake. But at the same time its up to the people who want to take your money and give you points to do their job correctly as well.

Mat the trasher

Would, returning the fine unopened, "not at this address", be the strategy there, if you open the letter and go to court, is that not admitting that its you in this case?

MyKeyG

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Talk to a solicitor about it and see what he/she says. I know someone who had a fine/points thrown out of court beause the wrong townland was put down as the area where he was caught for speeding. Fair play you held your hands up and admitted your mistake. But at the same time its up to the people who want to take your money and give you points to do their job correctly as well.

Absolute nonsense! Clerical errors do not balance out an act that is illegal for the very reason that it puts lives at risk! The OP is not holding his hands up he is merely stating the fact that he was caught doing something he shouldn't have been doing. There is no fair play due at all especially since he's trying to worm his way out of it!

tricky D

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Talk to a solicitor about it and see what he/she says. I know someone who had a fine/points thrown out of court beause the wrong townland was put down as the area where he was caught for speeding. Fair play you held your hands up and admitted your mistake. But at the same time its up to the people who want to take your money and give you points to do their job correctly as well.

The solicitor will love him for the easy money. As MyKeyG says, clerical errors don't matter. They might have in the past, but these days commonsense prevails.

As for not opening the letter, that just opens a different can of worms.

Paying up is the best solution by far.

Mat the trasher

Mat the trasher wrote: »

Would, returning the fine unopened, "not at this address", be the strategy there, if you open the letter and go to court, is that not admitting that its you in this case?

But more than likely, the Garda that pulled him over will have car reg.

MyKeyG

Deleted User wrote: »

But more than likely, the Garda that pulled him over will have car reg.

And have taken note of his license number.

Mat the trasher

MyKeyG wrote: »

And have taken note of his license number.

But its not the licence number that the fine is addressed to.

MyKeyG

Mat the trasher wrote: »

But its not the licence number that the fine is addressed to.

The forename was incorrect. The OP could argue that it was a family member in possession of the vehicle when the offence was committed whereas having taken note of his licence would prove it was the OP.

Mat the trasher

That I'm saying is that if the fine is addressed to a fictional person and the op treats it as such by returning the letter as incorrectly addressed, then either they fines office review the name/address on the fine or proceed to court against said fictional person. If the court summons has to be served then it must be served on the correct person or accepted on behalf of this person! Somewhere along the line they must get it right.

MyKeyG

Mat the trasher wrote: »

That I'm saying is that if the fine is addressed to a fictional person and the op treats it as such by returning the letter as incorrectly addressed, then either they fines office review the name/address on the fine or proceed to court against said fictional person. If the court summons has to be served then it must be served on the correct person or accepted on behalf of this person! Somewhere along the line they must get it right.

Forgive me but are you agreeing with the OP or not? What I'm saying is using the registration, license number and address the fines office review and judge will find the OP responsible regardless of the error with the forename. A fuss about clerical errors gets on their nerves. The fine will be amended!

Farmer Pudsey

roy rodgers wrote: »

I got stopped by the cops for being on the phone and fair enough I took it on the chin and except how stupid I was for doing it.
But when the fine came in the door it has my correct surname but the wrong forename..
Now should I except this fine and pay it or should I contest this in court as the wrong name is on it.

Did the Garda look at your licience and take your name from that if he took it down wrong judge will probally throw it out I go to a solicitor who cares about fine what about penelty points

Galwayguy35

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Did the Garda look at your licience and take your name from that if he took it down wrong judge will probally throw it out I go to a solicitor who cares about fine what about penelty points

Yeah i think so as well. The information has to be correct and if his name was not taken down correctly i think it would be thrown out despite what some on here say.

Paulw

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah i think so as well. The information has to be correct and if his name was not taken down correctly i think it would be thrown out despite what some on here say.

It won't be thrown out. The judge will simply have the information updated on the day, in court. Go to the public gallery in any court, and you will see this happening time and time again.

The op can either pay the fine and take the points, or take it to court, where the fine and points will be larger. The op admits to the offence on here, so just take it and be done with it.

MyKeyG

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah i think so as well. The information has to be correct and if his name was not taken down correctly i think it would be thrown out despite what some on here say.

You think? Well so long as you're sure.:rolleyes:

When I was up in court I saw the judge amend a charge. It was for something more serious than a traffic offence but he has the power to do it. In fact the guy was trying to get off on a technicality. What happened was the accused was known to the guards by a certain name and that's what they put on the charge. It turned out it was just a name he went by and his birth name was something else. Judge didn't care, he amended the charge and the guy went back to prison.

You should be sure of what you're talking about before criticising good advice and possibly getting someone into more trouble than they're already in.

franciebellew

I would say contest it. You might get off. Worth a shot

MyKeyG

franciebellew wrote: »

I would say contest it. You might get off. Worth a shot

How is risking a higher fine and points on his licence worth a shot?

Galwayguy35

MyKeyG wrote: »

You think? Well so long as you're sure.:rolleyes:

When I was up in court I saw the judge amend a charge. It was for something more serious than a traffic offence but he has the power to do it. In fact the guy was trying to get off on a technicality. What happened was the accused was known to the guards by a certain name and that's what they put on the charge. It turned out it was just a name he went by and his birth name was something else. Judge didn't care, he amended the charge and the guy went back to prison.

You should be sure of what you're talking about before criticising good advice and possibly getting someone into more trouble than they're already in.

I told him to chat to a solicitor based on a recent case where someone i know got off. Its up to himself what he wants to do with the information.

MyKeyG

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I told him to chat to a solicitor based on a recent case where someone i know got off. Its up to himself what he wants to do with the information.

You also told him it should be thrown out and that people on here were wrong. Just saying it's irresponsible advice.

Gareth2011

the culture of deference wrote: »

from the UK

• Jimmy Carr - cleared of using a mobile phone while driving at Harrow Magistrates Court after his councel argued that Carr had used the dictation setting of his iPhone to record a joke as he drove and that using the phone for such a purpose was not illegal under current law.[15]

He got off because he was using his phone to record a joke because he is a comedian? How does that not seem fair? You can get stopped and fined for talking to someone on the phone but not for using it to record something? He was still using the bloody phone it was in his hands no doubt or if it was hands free then there is no contest either way. Not having a go at you just that is a fu*king stupid take on the law.

franciebellew

MyKeyG wrote: »

How is risking a higher fine and points on his licence worth a shot?

Because it might get thrown out. That's why

MyKeyG

franciebellew wrote: »

Because it might get thrown out. That's why

The chances that it will are somewhere in the region of a thousand to one. I'm just surprised at all the people here who think it's either a certainty that it'll be thrown out or that it's worth the risk.

Gareth2011

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Yeah i think so as well. The information has to be correct and if his name was not taken down correctly i think it would be thrown out despite what some on here say.

If the car is registered to the OP and his licence no was taken down by the guard (more than likely) a simple spelling mistake (forename) wont make any difference. He admitted to it at the time and in my view he is a pri*k for trying to get out of it. Most of us are stopped by the guards at one stage or another and if you have a genuine reason to dispute it then fine but you don't admit to it then say oh no it wasn't me the guard got it wrong. He/she deserves to get a hefty fine for wasting the courts time.

franciebellew

It happened to me a few years ago. Guard got details wrong on fine and dangerous driving was thrown out.

MyKeyG

franciebellew wrote: »

It happened to me a few years ago. Guard got details wrong on fine and dangerous driving was thrown out.

Well done. Doesn't mean a thing!

ResearchWill

Gareth2011 wrote: »

He got off because he was using his phone to record a joke because he is a comedian? How does that not seem fair? You can get stopped and fined for talking to someone on the phone but not for using it to record something? He was still using the bloody phone it was in his hands no doubt or if it was hands free then there is no contest either way. Not having a go at you just that is a fu*king stupid take on the law.

Maybe it's because of the different wording between the UK law, which is what the case was about and Irish law.

UK wording,

(b)as to not driving or supervising the driving of a motor vehicle while using a hand-held mobile telephone or other hand-held interactive communication device, or not causing or permitting the driving of a motor vehicle by another person using such a telephone or other device,

Irish Wording

3.— (1) A person shall not while driving a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place hold a mobile phone.

UK use the word using, while Irish law uses the word hold. An example of better drafting by the Irish for once. I could see why a judge in the UK would say if it is not an offence to say use a dictating machine, then why is it an offence to use a dictation app on a phone.

Ireland got around those arguments by just making it an offence to hold a mobile phone, it matters not if you are using the phone part or not.

Zambia

franciebellew wrote: »

It happened to me a few years ago. Guard got details wrong on fine and dangerous driving was thrown out.

What detail?

franciebellew

My name if I remember correctly

Zambia

Was it the wrong name like Joe Edwards

Or just a Miss spelling Joe SMITH written as Jo SMIT

Gareth2011

franciebellew wrote: »

Because it might get thrown out. That's why

N if it doesn't get thrown out but he's gone to the trouble of a solictor, court fees for the sake of a small fine and 2 points on his licence? Sure he will still have to pay the solictor even if it is thrown out and you can be sure they will charge more than the fine. Pointless to fight it for such a trival conviction.

MyKeyG

Gareth2011 wrote: »

N if it doesn't get thrown out but he's gone to the trouble of a solictor, court fees for the sake of a small fine and 2 points on his licence? Sure he will still have to pay the solictor even if it is thrown out and you can be sure they will charge more than the fine. Pointless to fight it for such a trival conviction.

At this stage I'd let the OP and his delusional supporters do what they want. He wants to shirk his debt to society and the 'enlightened' here have told him he's in the clear.

I hope the judge throws the bloody book at him!!!

Delancey

These ' clutching at straw ' type threads do elicit some very strange and at times , dangerous , advice.

deadwood

Delancey wrote: »

These ' clutching at straw ' type threads do elicit some very strange and at times , dangerous , advice.

Maybe the charter should include a ban on those looking for loopholes as well as legal advice.

I know it's going to happen some day: "But Your worshipfulness, it said on the boards legal discussion forum that the guard had to have in his posession a copy of bunreacht na hEireann before he can stop you"

jblack

franciebellew wrote: »

I would say contest it. You might get off. Worth a shot

OP if you attempt to get off on a completely irrelevant technicality, you had better have an extremely experienced road traffic litigator with you because the judge, more than likely, will try to impose as heavy a fine as he can.

The above advice is, for want of a less polite way of saying, dangerous, ill informed and, if followed, likely to land you with far more expense.

The first 5 or 6 posts are all you need to know.

FreudianSlippers

deadwood wrote: »

Maybe the charter should include a ban on those looking for loopholes as well as legal advice.

I know it's going to happen some day: "But Your worshipfulness, it said on the boards legal discussion forum that the guard had to have in his posession a copy of bunreacht na hEireann before he can stop you"

I think you're right.

BrianD

Gareth2011 wrote: »

He got off because he was using his phone to record a joke because he is a comedian? How does that not seem fair? You can get stopped and fined for talking to someone on the phone but not for using it to record something? He was still using the bloody phone it was in his hands no doubt or if it was hands free then there is no contest either way. Not having a go at you just that is a fu*king stupid take on the law.

I wonder if there was more to this story i.e. he provided mobile phone records to back up his claims.

rOBeRt frETt

typo's can go all the way to summons and then warrant without the 'perpetrator' even being aware- for example - I had to produce tax and insurance within 10 days of being stopped (driving someone else's car- no, I don't know why I had to produce a tax disc ). I duly presented my details at my chosen gardai station however the garda had taken my name wrong (at the scene)- sent a summons to an imaginary person when nothing in the '...umm- shall we say log book' matched what was on his reports - I had been writing 'not at this address' because I don't like opening other people mail and finally there was a knock at the door because I failed to appear at court (warrant) luckily I got a nice cop and showed her my drivers license - she checked the logs and could see I had presented with tax and insurance - still had to go to court but it was struck off

pay the fine - but make sure the name gets changed!

fungun

I was up in court a few years back for speeding because I hadnt sent the nomination form back in time to nominate the actual driver at the time.
There were 5 people up in court that day with the exact same issue (well some had just ignored the letter) and we all got off on a technicality in that there was an error in the address of the location of the offence (incorrect county, was close to the border).

Judge was pretty pissed off with having to let everyone off and with the gardai for getting it wrong.....but in the end we all got off. Pretty sure if he could have done something he would have. Would have been 4 pts and 160 quid fine...solicitor turning up for me was 40 quid. Perhaps the law has since changed but worth a chat with a solicitor

User Friendly

fungun wrote: »

I was up in court a few years back for speeding because I hadnt sent the nomination form back in time to nominate the actual driver at the time.
There were 5 people up in court that day with the exact same issue (well some had just ignored the letter) and we all got off on a technicality in that there was an error in the address of the location of the offence (incorrect county, was close to the border).

Judge was pretty pissed off with having to let everyone off and with the gardai for getting it wrong.....but in the end we all got off. Pretty sure if he could have done something he would have. Would have been 4 pts and 160 quid fine...solicitor turning up for me was 40 quid. Perhaps the law has since changed but worth a chat with a solicitor

you know what,im delighted you and the others got off.
The fact that a driver will be punished further by exercising his or her constitutional right in challenging a summons for a driving offence is outrageous imo.
Its a stupid law imo,if its based on the idea oh we dont want to clog up the courts with summonses for driving offences.

Paulw

User Friendly wrote: »

The fact that a driver will be punished further by exercising his or her constitutional right in challenging a summons for a driving offence is outrageous imo.

The driver is not punished further for challenging it, but rather they are given a reduced fine/penalty if they don't challenge it. That's how the law is worded and how it works.

fungun wrote: »

There were 5 people up in court that day with the exact same issue (well some had just ignored the letter) and we all got off on a technicality in that there was an error in the address of the location of the offence (incorrect county, was close to the border).

It could have been the case that where the offence happened was in a different juristiction or such, which is why the judge had to dismiss it. It wasn't a simple clerical error, such as a name spelling.

MyKeyG

fungun wrote: »

I was up in court a few years back for speeding because I hadnt sent the nomination form back in time to nominate the actual driver at the time.
There were 5 people up in court that day with the exact same issue (well some had just ignored the letter) and we all got off on a technicality in that there was an error in the address of the location of the offence (incorrect county, was close to the border).

Judge was pretty pissed off with having to let everyone off and with the gardai for getting it wrong.....but in the end we all got off. Pretty sure if he could have done something he would have. Would have been 4 pts and 160 quid fine...solicitor turning up for me was 40 quid. Perhaps the law has since changed but worth a chat with a solicitor

That's a different scenario. The address of the issuing office was incorrect and it could not be proven that you and others hadn't tried to respond to it. Your case was a matter of logic more than technicality.

In the OP's case it's a minor clerical error. All his other details check out and it can be proven that he is the guilty party.

MyKeyG

User Friendly wrote: »

you know what,im delighted you and the others got off.
The fact that a driver will be punished further by exercising his or her constitutional right in challenging a summons for a driving offence is outrageous imo.
Its a stupid law imo,if its based on the idea oh we dont want to clog up the courts with summonses for driving offences.

Rubbish! It's a case of admitting your mistake, facing up to your responsibility and taking your lumps.

fungun

MyKeyG wrote: »

Rubbish! It's a case of admitting your mistake, facing up to your responsibility and taking your lumps.

in this case tbf i just was late sending back a notice. If they had doubled the fine and the points I would have been angry with myself and paid up. Instead I go to court, cost the country a couple of grand and get off scot free. Thats a problem with the system

I was going to say this to the judge but my solicitor keep going 'shut up' under his breath to me so i just kept quiet!!