Ex-ESB chief Padraig McManus gets €800,000 package

CamperMan

so this is where some of the bail out money is going.. to people like this :mad:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/exesb-chief-padraig-mcmanus-gets-800000-package-3002543.html?start=3

then you have this p iss take

Sources added that Mr McManus also qualifies for a discount on his electricity bill given to retired and existing staff. It is estimated that the perk is worth up to €470 a year to each of the 7,000 retired ESB workers.,

€3,290,000 a year of tax payers money... whilst hard up workers are having their ESB supplies cut off because they can't afford the sky high bills that are affording w@nkers to retire on massive pensions!

juan.kerr

And he probably had Anglo bonds.

Irish_Elect_Eng

Some perspective is needed here.

While there are many state and semi-state organisations where the senior management is ineffective and not worth the money that they are being paid. Overall the ESB is a modern high performance organisation. It is often referred to as the jewel in the crown of the semi-state bodies and is making profits both at home and abroad where they have significant business also.

At this level of management executives make daily decisions that can impact the performance of their organisations profits by many multiples of their salaries. Effective management results in good performance and increased profits.

So unless there is some evidence that Mr McManus is not actually doing a good job then this thread is meaningless. in fact his salary is not outrageous relative to the private sector for high performing companies. If there is any issue with wages in the ESB it is probably in lower tiers of the organisation.

Park Royal

Some management that leaves the Pension Fund in deficit.....( has he corrected this before departing ???)

excerpt from http://www.cardi.ie/news/esbpensionfundhasdeficitofupto%E2%82%AC15bn

Date published: Friday, February 6, 2009
News source: The Irish Times
Region: Republic of Ireland
Management AT the ESB is expected to tell trade unions next week that the company’s pension fund is facing an estimated deficit of up to €1.5 billion.

It is understood that among the proposals that will be put forward for dealing with the problem is the closure of the existing defined benefit pension scheme for new staff and the introduction of new pension arrangements.

A valuation to determine the exact nature of the pension fund deficit is currently under way.

However, it is understood that estimates suggest that the deficit is between €1.3 billion and €1.5 billion.

Separately, it emerged last night that the chief executive of the ESB, Padraig McManus, is to take a 10 per cent pay cut.

Mr McManus currently has a salary of €467,000 with the possibility of an additional 25 per cent in bonus payments.

Irish_Elect_Eng

Park Royal wrote: »

Some management that leaves the Pension Fund in deficit.....( has he corrected this before departing ???)

excerpt from http://www.cardi.ie/news/esbpensionfundhasdeficitofupto%E2%82%AC15bn

Date published: Friday, February 6, 2009
News source: The Irish Times
Region: Republic of Ireland
Management AT the ESB is expected to tell trade unions next week that the company’s pension fund is facing an estimated deficit of up to €1.5 billion.

It is understood that among the proposals that will be put forward for dealing with the problem is the closure of the existing defined benefit pension scheme for new staff and the introduction of new pension arrangements.

A valuation to determine the exact nature of the pension fund deficit is currently under way.

However, it is understood that estimates suggest that the deficit is between €1.3 billion and €1.5 billion.

Separately, it emerged last night that the chief executive of the ESB, Padraig McManus, is to take a 10 per cent pay cut.

Mr McManus currently has a salary of €467,000 with the possibility of an additional 25 per cent in bonus payments.

The issue with many defined benefit pension schemes is down to the performance of stocks during the recession, and the creation of this issue is not related to management. I agree that this issue needs to be resolved by management, but I believe that this is an issue that the government is dragging it's heels on not ESB management in particular.

But I am not expert on this particular topic.

juan.kerr

Just in case talk of a pension deficit for ESB is concerning anyone...rest assured this won't apply to the senior management pension scheme.

He'll get his 200k a year.

Morrisseeee

Just picture this scenario, if you will:
...........there's Enda (out foreign) pointing his 'skrawny cowardly' finger at US, and telling US that WE are at fault, to a world wide audience !!
...........and there's Enda patting this fella on the back with our money.

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote:

Some perspective is needed here

Yes indeed, like..............Ireland is up the shiiitter, and this kind of payment is ridiculous, I mean they're literally taking money from special needs children, people in hospitals, the elderly etc etc and giving it to themselves !! a reverse Robin Hood if you like :eek::mad:

As regards ESB workers getting special rates for their electricity, this has to stop, and all public sector benefits etc have to be seriously looked at, the Gov made mistakes, the PS has to shape up and take hits !!

juan.kerr

So the staff keep their free/subsidised units while the countries OAPs have their free units cut?

Outrageous.

n97 mini

And the cost of electricity to Irish businesses is the highest in Europe, which is costing us jobs.

juan.kerr

n97 mini wrote: »

And the cost of electricity to Irish businesses is the highest in Europe, which is costing us jobs.

The ESB is run for the benefit of the employees not the country - just look at the perks, salary levels and gold plated pensions.

They may as well have privatised the ESB years ago for all the good keeping it as a semi state company has ever done.

Icepick

How come people weren't outraged by Trapattoni's ridiculous salary?

juan.kerr

Icepick wrote: »

How come people weren't outraged by Trapattoni's ridiculous salary?

Is the FAI a semi state / public sector company?

And of course there's the matter of qualification...what has the ESB qualified for? Other than highest payout in history of the state...

gerryo777

Icepick wrote: »

How come people weren't outraged by Trapattoni's ridiculous salary?

What a bulls**t post! Trolling is alive and well..

ukoda

n97 mini wrote: »

And the cost of electricity to Irish businesses is the highest in Europe, which is costing us jobs.

No, its not, can you provide a source to your claim?

From what i can see Ireland has cheaper electricity prices for industrial customers than...Cyprus, Germany, Italy, Malta, Slovakia, and in higher consumption Ireland is cheaper than Austria, Belgium, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Lithuania, Netherlands, United Kingdom, Spain and Slovakia.

What you say may have been true 4 years ago but as of June 11 its totally inacurate.

efb

He's led a very successful company-I think he's worth it.

irishh_bob

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

Some perspective is needed here.

While there are many state and semi-state organisations where the senior management is ineffective and not worth the money that they are being paid. Overall the ESB is a modern high performance organisation. It is often referred to as the jewel in the crown of the semi-state bodies and is making profits both at home and abroad where they have significant business also.

At this level of management executives make daily decisions that can impact the performance of their organisations profits by many multiples of their salaries. Effective management results in good performance and increased profits.

So unless there is some evidence that Mr McManus is not actually doing a good job then this thread is meaningless. in fact his salary is not outrageous relative to the private sector for high performing companies. If there is any issue with wages in the ESB it is probably in lower tiers of the organisation.

you make it sound like the ESB is another ryanair and mc manus is michael o leary

the majority of monopolys are profitable

irishh_bob

juan.kerr wrote: »

So the staff keep their free/subsidised units while the countries OAPs have their free units cut?

Outrageous.

agree with the OAP,s having thier free units cuts , id cut the free tv licence aswell

i agree with the goverment on this , not you

Kavrocks

CamperMan wrote: »

so this is where some of the bail out money is going.. to people like this :mad:

No, get your facts straight.

€3,290,000 a year of tax payers money... whilst hard up workers are having their ESB supplies cut off because they can't afford the sky high bills that are affording w@nkers to retire on massive pensions!

Why not give out about the people who work for the ESB getting a wage then?

The ESB now Electric Ireland have always been more forgiving to customers in arrears than all the other non semi-state energy companies in Ireland yet nobody gives out about them cutting people off.

If somebody isn't paying for a service they are using then why should they continue to receive that service? It is theft to receive a service but not pay for it. You wouldn't steal bread or milk from the supermarket so why should electricity or gas be any different?

juan.kerr

Kavrocks wrote: »

The ESB now Electric Ireland have always been more forgiving to customers in arrears than all the other non semi-state energy companies in Ireland yet nobody gives out about them cutting people off.

More incompetence. I pay more to subsidise the people in arrears or who should have been cut off but weren't.

n97 mini

efb wrote: »

He's led a very successful company-I think he's worth it.

He's led a state-owned incumbent, that has a monopoly on ownership of the transmission grid.

It's cash cow, and would have made as much money if Mr Bean was running it.

efb

n97 mini wrote: »

He's led a state-owned incumbent, that has a monopoly on ownership of the transmission grid.

It's cash cow, and would have made as much money if Mr Bean was running it.

really?

n97 mini

ukoda wrote: »

No, its not, can you provide a source to your claim?

We are 6th most expensive out of 27 counties. But that doesn't tell the whole story, as we are almost double the cost of similar economies, e.g. Finland.

n97 mini

efb wrote: »

really?

Good comeback!

patwicklow

efb wrote: »

He's led a very successful company-I think he's worth it.

A rip off company more like it..makes my blood boil reading about this,
just a matter of time before it really gets to boiling point in this country!

n97 mini

The term "bag man" comes to mind.

Kavrocks

juan.kerr wrote: »

More incompetence. I pay more to subsidise the people in arrears or who should have been cut off but weren't.

You pay more in every purchase you make to subsidise theft, damage and non payment by others.

All businesses factor in a percentage to their costs for this and pass that on to the consumer. If you are unhappy about it then I suggest you stop purchasing goods and services.

Get your facts straight.

ukoda

n97 mini wrote: »

We are 6th most expensive out of 27 counties. But that doesn't tell the whole story, as we are almost double the cost of similar economies, e.g. Finland.

No sorry, not comparable, Finland has cheap energy due to its large forest industry and use of black liquor and Hydro power.

ukoda

I think a lot of people just don't understand what drives the cost of electricty prices...its not employee salaries its global oil and gas prices.

If its salary driven...then someone please tell me why a private company like Airtricty isn't radically cheaper than the ESB?? if you look at prices (taking the Airtricity higher standing charge in to account) theres really not a HUGE amount in the difference.

So if Airtricity have such "normal" wages why aren't they blowing ESB out of the water on price?

Also - Airtricty have posted losses of 13 million euro - so obviously their prices are unsustainable and i would imagine that their owners (SSE) have been subsidizing them in order for them to get a foot hold in the irish market. Expect a price increase soon tho as they can't do that forever!

So really even with their "normal" wages they will not be able to afford to offer cheap prices to the irish market - hence my point - what you pay for your electricity has NOTHING to do with anyones salary.

irishh_bob

ukoda wrote: »

I think a lot of people just don't understand what drives the cost of electricty prices...its not employee salaries its global oil and gas prices.

If its salary driven...then someone please tell me why a private company like Airtricty isn't radically cheaper than the ESB?? if you look at prices (taking the Airtricity higher standing charge in to account) theres really not a HUGE amount in the difference.

So if Airtricity have such "normal" wages why aren't they blowing ESB out of the water on price?

Also - Airtricty have posted losses of 13 million euro - so obviously their prices are unsustainable and i would imagine that their owners (SSE) have been subsidizing them in order for them to get a foot hold in the irish market. Expect a price increase soon tho as they can't do that forever!

So really even with their "normal" wages they will not be able to afford to offer cheap prices to the irish market - hence my point - what you pay for your electricity has NOTHING to do with anyones salary.

airtricity has no control over the electricity infrastructure , airtricity employ no engineers on the ground , all thier employees are software engineers and telesales staff , how many times have you seen an airtricity or bord gais repair van tear up the road after a storm , esb controls the hardware and gets a cut of your bill regardless of who your signed up with , competition in the electricity is an illusion just like its an illusion in the telephone sector where eircom has a monopoly on the hardware - infrastructure

as for your comment about esb staff salarys not effecting the cost of electricity , thats like saying consultant salarys doesnt effect the cost of running the department of health , junior grade maths

Kavrocks

irishh_bob wrote: »

airtricity has no control over the electricity infrastructure

Neither does the ESB Group. That's Eirgrid's job.

esb controls the hardware and gets a cut of your bill regardless of who your signed up with

ESB Networks read all the electricity meters for every electricity supplier in Ireland, they also install and regularly upgrade them this is what you are paying for. Should ESB Networks not be paid for these services? They are not the only people who are allowed to install or upgrade meters, so they don't have total control over the hardware.

ukoda

irishh_bob wrote: »

airtricity has no control over the electricity infrastructure , airtricity employ no engineers on the ground , all thier employees are software engineers and telesales staff , how many times have you seen an airtricity or bord gais repair van tear up the road after a storm , esb controls the hardware and gets a cut of your bill regardless of who your signed up with , competition in the electricity is an illusion just like its an illusion in the telephone sector where eircom has a monopoly on the hardware - infrastructure

as for your comment about esb staff salarys not effecting the cost of electricity , thats like saying consultant salarys doesnt effect the cost of running the department of health , junior grade maths

You've just helped me prove my point - Exactly - Airtricty have NO high wage costs as they have NO high paid staff (e.g engineers etc)..YET they still can't offer much cheaper electricity??

and your point about ESB getting a cut of the bill regardless of supplier - this is correct - they get a percentage of the standing charge - By the way - Airtricity charge a HIGHER standing charge than ESB (Electric Ireland) and they pocket this extra money themselves - it does not go towards the maintenance of the grid - it goes into their bank account. less than half of the standing charge that suppliers charge goes to ESB.

Comparing it to the HSE situation is a 'Junior Grade' attempt at economics. Seriously...im not joking here...its the cost of fuel...no really, it is.

irishh_bob

ukoda wrote: »

You've just helped me prove my point - Exactly - Airtricty have NO high wage costs as they have NO high paid staff (e.g engineers etc)..YET they still can't offer much cheaper electricity??

and your point about ESB getting a cut of the bill regardless of supplier - this is correct - they get a percentage of the standing charge - By the way - Airtricity charge a HIGHER standing charge than ESB (Electric Ireland) and they pocket this extra money themselves - it does not go towards the maintenance of the grid - it goes into their bank account. less than half of the standing charge that suppliers charge goes to ESB.

Comparing it to the HSE situation is a 'Junior Grade' attempt at economics. Seriously...im not joking here...its the cost of fuel...no really, it is.

so you deny that the wage bill at ESB has no effect on consumer prices ?

ukoda

irishh_bob wrote: »

so you deny that the wage bill at ESB has no effect on consumer prices ?

Prob has a 1-2% effect on ESB prices - and 0% effect on Airtricty and BGE prices

Icepick

ukoda wrote: »

Prob has a 1-2% effect on ESB prices - and 0% effect on Airtricty and BGE prices

Hardly 0 when the network belongs and is managed by ESB, and they also generate electricity.

ukoda

Icepick wrote: »

Hardly 0 when the network belongs and is managed by ESB, and they also generate electricity.

Yeah but you're not getting what I'm saying - you pay the Supplier - the Supplier gives a VERY small part of your bill to ESB towards the grid management.


They generate Electricity, yes thats correct, and what do they use to mostly generate it - oh yeah.... FUEL!!

n97 mini

ukoda wrote: »

I think a lot of people just don't understand what drives the cost of electricty prices...its not employee salaries its global oil and gas prices.

Tell us:

What percentage of ESB costs is fuel?

What percentage of ESB costs is salaries?

thebman

Airtricity was setup by a former ESB worker though wasn't it?

Maybe I'm wrong but people I know who worked for ESB have told me that.

ukoda

n97 mini wrote: »

Tell us:

What percentage of ESB costs is fuel?

What percentage of ESB costs is salaries?

Tell me:

What percentage of Airtricity costs is fuel?

What percentage of Airtricty costs is salaries?

Because if salary costs are such a high portion of overall costs - Airticity (who don't have these high salary costs) must be way cheaper?....right?? surely???......oh wait no....they charge roughly the same price for electricity.

ukoda

thebman wrote: »

Airtricity was setup by a former ESB worker though wasn't it?

Maybe I'm wrong but people I know who worked for ESB have told me that.

Not sure about its origins - but its owned by a UK utility now - Scottish and Southern Energy

irishh_bob

ukoda wrote: »

Tell me:

What percentage of Airtricity costs is fuel?

What percentage of Airtricty costs is salaries?

Because if salary costs are such a high portion of overall costs - Airticity (who don't have these high salary costs) must be way cheaper?....right?? surely???......oh wait no....they charge roughly the same price for electricity.

airtricity is not independant of ESB , airtricity has no say over infrastructure costs and repairs etc , airtricity and bord gais do not represent real choice in our electricity sector , they are merley part of a cartel , hence why thier prices are so similar to esb

n97 mini

ukoda wrote: »

Because if salary costs are such a high portion of overall costs - Airticity (who don't have these high salary costs) must be way cheaper?....right?? surely???......oh wait no....they charge roughly the same price for electricity.

Airtricity have to use the grid owned by ESB, and the metering system, again owned by ESB.

waster81

The man had a contract - he got paid for it - he didnt bankrupt the country while he was performing his duties

Compare this to the private sector banks,developers or ceo's who cause societal issues - they walk away with handsome pay offs, pensions and then leave society to deal with their mess

dublinman1990

waster81 wrote: »

The man had a contract - he got paid for it - he didnt bankrupt the country while he was performing his duties

Compare this to the private sector banks,developers or ceo's who cause societal issues - they walk away with handsome pay offs, pensions and then leave society to deal with their mess

Well, it does bankrupt others for attempting to pay their electricity bills which become unmanageable for them to afford.

I have also found out that the central role is the E.U. rules, which makes a ruling that the semi state energy companies are forbidden to make a loss on their financial statements. It is the role of them and the CER (Commission For Energy Regulation) to set and approve the gas and electricity price increases which would make them not having financial losses.

So IMO, against having all other costs, that is the reason why Padraig has got his big pension after all.

It would also fall down around the cost of banker's salary, so, that is why you should not get your hopes up in this way.

waster81

Are you for real - we really have hit new lows

when we compare banks bankrupting the country - to electricity company bankrupt a person who cant pay an electricity bill

What planet are you on

n97 mini

waster81 wrote: »

The man had a contract - he got paid for it - he didnt bankrupt the country while he was performing his duties

You could say the same about Bertie.

waster81

n97 mini wrote: »

You could say the same about Bertie.

no because power had power not to give as much de regulation to the financial institutions but due to influence and advisors he didnt stand up to them

pljudge321

n97 mini wrote: »

He's led a state-owned incumbent, that has a monopoly on ownership of the transmission grid.

Pray tell me how deregulated and divested ownership of the transmission assets would lead to cheaper electricity?

This is of course ignoring all international experiences of such ventures which generally ends up in overloaded grids with insufficient investment and a blackout or two.

irishh_bob

waster81 wrote: »

The man had a contract - he got paid for it - he didnt bankrupt the country while he was performing his duties

Compare this to the private sector banks,developers or ceo's who cause societal issues - they walk away with handsome pay offs, pensions and then leave society to deal with their mess

if the drug lords in ireland left everyone terrified to leave thier house , we would attribute some blame and criticism at the feet of the guards

the banks could not have got away with the kind of lending they engaged in had the financial regulator ( a public servant ) who was appointed by the politicans ( public servants ) done his job

juan.kerr

Kavrocks wrote: »

You pay more in every purchase you make to subsidise theft, damage and non payment by others.

All businesses factor in a percentage to their costs for this and pass that on to the consumer. If you are unhappy about it then I suggest you stop purchasing goods and services.

Get your facts straight.

So you think it's acceptable that ESB has allowed over 360,000 cutomers to get into arrears?

I doubt that the other operators have anywhere near the same % of customers in arrears.

n97 mini

pljudge321 wrote: »

Pray tell me how deregulated and divested ownership of the transmission assets would lead to cheaper electricity?

Pray tell me why the ESB have a dead man's grip on the network and won't sign ownership over to an independent, state-owned entity, Eirgrid?

Hint: It's nothing to do with the national interest, obviously, as they would have done it long ago when they were supposed to. No, it's more to do with gravy.

n97 mini

waster81 wrote: »

no because power had power not to give as much de regulation to the financial institutions but due to influence and advisors he didnt stand up to them

What? Punction man, punctuation! It doesn't cost anything and it's the difference between gibberish and well formed sentences!