Solution to binge drinking

ART6

So now we have the solution to the perceived binge drinking culture in Ireland http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0127/1224310810349.html

The solution was always so simple. Once again, as with speed cameras, road tolls, etc., punish the majority for the sins of the minority. It is another example, in my view, with the normal approach of politicians of limited intelligence (except when it applied to their own salaries and expenses). However, I can see some benefits in it for the state. By the time the excise duty and VAT have been added, it will become nice little earner. The sheeple can be persuaded that this is all for their own good and they will happily roll over again.

One benefit from the legislation, I imagine, will be that significantly reduced drinking will reduce the demand upon the septic tanks that the government wants to tax, so it will reduce pollution. Unfortunately the reduced income to the state will require that the inspection fee be increased to make up the shortfall. It might also put even more licensed premised and shops out of business, thereby conforming with the government's policy of creating employment.

The legislation will also dramatically reduce the demand on what is laughingly called our health service (God, it will save billions!). Therefore it will be possible to reduce what remains of that service and save large amounts of money that can then be paid to German and French banks, therefore averting any credit down rating for any of them if they don't manage to do it for themselves by their own incompetence.

So now, a Nostradamus prediction: A time will come when the people have no more means to pay. The people will not revolt. Instead their political leaders will emigrate to the European Commission, where they will obtain high-paid salaries and expenses at the cost of whatever remains of the European tax base. Welcome commissioner Kenny!

Oh, and just in case anyone thinks I am a binge drinker who regularly vomits in O'Connell Street, I am a retired pensioner (with no Irish pension). I enjoy my glass of Irish whiskey each evening before dinner. I raise my glass to you minister (while I can afford it!)

quietriot

I'm not sure what your key point was there? The end of the rant was a little inconclusive, I must say.

Lets not beat about the bush with regards to this, it's a direct win for the VFI/LVA lobbyists who've clearly got enough push that no matter which government is in, they'll end up as puppets for them.

I mean, it's fairly clear what the deal is: “We want to make sure we don’t have a disparity where alcohol is one price north of the Border and considerably more expensive south of the Border, or vice versa,”. That clears it up pretty easily. You're getting charged heavy for your booze and instead of you having the choice to actually leave the country and get it elsewhere, we'll make a little agreement with them too, so no matter what you'll be paying more for your booze. Big smiles all round.

If you want to hit this crowd where it hurts, simply boycott the pubs in the ROI. Drink at home, pay the extra and don't let any money go their way. Another few hundred pubs shutting their doors for good might teach the alcohol cartel and their bullying ways that there's a breaking point with everything and they've reached the point of no return.

n97 mini

The solution to binge drinking is more profit for retailers. Only in Ireland.

PARKHEAD67

quietriot wrote: »

I'm not sure what your key point was there? The end of the rant was a little inconclusive, I must say.

Lets not beat about the bush with regards to this, it's a direct win for the VFI/LVA lobbyists who've clearly got enough push that no matter which government is in, they'll end up as puppets for them.

I mean, it's fairly clear what the deal is: “We want to make sure we don’t have a disparity where alcohol is one price north of the Border and considerably more expensive south of the Border, or vice versa,”. That clears it up pretty easily. You're getting charged heavy for your booze and instead of you having the choice to actually leave the country and get it elsewhere, we'll make a little agreement with them too, so no matter what you'll be paying more for your booze. Big smiles all round.

If you want to hit this crowd where it hurts, simply boycott the pubs in the ROI. Drink at home, pay the extra and don't let any money go their way. Another few hundred pubs shutting their doors for good might teach the alcohol cartel and their bullying ways that there's a breaking point with everything and they've reached the point of no return.[/QUOTE]
This sums it up for me.

MadsL

Why penalise adult drinkers.

1. Raise alcohol drinking age to 21
2. ID must be shown by all to buy booze
3. Five figure fine for retailers who fail to check ID
4. Mandatory prison term for anyone buying booze for teens

Done. Problem solved - Cheap booze for all adults. Hurrah!

p1akuw47h5r3it

MadsL wrote: »

Why penalise adult drinkers.

1. Raise alcohol drinking age to 21
2. ID must be shown by all to buy booze
3. Five figure fine for retailers who fail to check ID
4. Mandatory prison term for anyone buying booze for teens

Done. Problem solved - Cheap booze for all adults. Hurrah!

18 year olds are adults so with this approach you would still be penalising adults. The rest seems fine enough.

MadsL

yeah, 18 years are 'adults' and responsible when it comes to drinking....how well is that working at the minute??

How about raise the alcohol off-licence buying age to 25 then?

smellslikeshoes

“Problem drinkers and young drinkers are very price-sensitive and for them there is a very direct correlation between price and levels of consumption,”

This is the bit that really pisses me off. Young drinkers I can see their reasoning, they might be more price sensitive than most but problem drinkers are a different kettle of fish altogether. If someone has a problem with the drink an extra quid on the cheaper cans is not going to stop them they will simply go without something else to pay for it.

Make no mistake, this will help pub lobby and nobody else. Instead of pubs changing with the times and making themselves leaner and more efficient so they can be cheaper they can make everywhere else more expensive to make the pubs seem better.

Bit of home brew is on the cards for me and I'm sure I'm not the only one.:pac:

ART6

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Bit of home brew is on the cards for me and I'm sure I'm not the onlyone.:pac:

Sure, and if everyone does that how long do you think it would be before our caring government slaps heavy taxes on the makings?

Cookie_Monster

ART6 wrote: »

Sure, and if everyone does that how long do you think it would be before our caring government slaps heavy taxes on the makings?

what "makings" Mr Customs Officer, sir?


The solution to binge drinking is education and a shift change in our attitude to a more European one. But that's difficult and takes time and is expensive, so the gov will never have any interest in it.

ART6

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

what "makings" Mr Customs Officer, sir?

Excise duty on brewers yeast (say) 75%, then VAT at 23% on total cost. Same on hopped malt extract. Add the annual water charge and a minimum price for sugar (for health reasons of course -- to fight the obesity epidemic), and the cost of a home made pint should be slightly more than one bought in a bar.:D

Iwannahurl

"Punishing" and "penalising" adult drinkers -- is that really a point for "serious discussion"?

Dob74

Why does everyone think that young people drinking is a problem.
When our politicians and journalist lay off the booze, this will make decision makers think with a clear head.
The taoiseach of the country was on the piss til at least 2 in the morning along with the rest of the cabinet(ff in galway). Journalists defended the taoiseach by saying he had to do his party piece. What is he running for the rose of Tralee.
Drinking on the night before work is not tolerated in any serious workplace. Time to close the dail bar

K_1

MadsL wrote: »

Why penalise adult drinkers.

1. Raise alcohol drinking age to 21

Given that the current age of 18 doesn't work, raising it to 21 isn't going to help in any way.

2. ID must be shown by all to buy booze

Already the case for anyone who looks that they could possibly be underage.

3. Five figure fine for retailers who fail to check ID

There are already fines for this, which are practically impossible to enforce.

4. Mandatory prison term for anyone buying booze for teens

Why don't we put real criminals in the few spaces we actually have in our prisons?

Done. Problem solved - Cheap booze for all adults. Hurrah!

So apart from the fact that people aged 18 to 21 are adults, you think that nobody over 21 has ever been binge drinking?

We have got a problem with underage drinking in this country, but look in your average A&E on a Saturday night, and its not just 16 year olds getting their stomachs pumped.

Crazy Horse 6

Make booze illegal.

alb

If this was really a price increase to counter problem drinking, the extra revenue would be spent on education, enforcement of the sale of alcohol laws and rehabilitation. I don't think as many would have a problem with it then, but when it's just extra profit for the booze industry it is of course crooked politics and an insult to us, the public, to lie about the reason for it.

beeroclock

As far as Im concerned the vitners can go f*** themselves ill pay the extra 50 cent a can / bottle or whatever them nitwits in government buildings with their vested interests add on but the pub industry must be far sighted if they think there will not be a backlash from this.

Curbing binge drinking me arse, as other posters have mentioned they need to enforce or change the laws if they really have a genuine concern (which they dont)

Jesus Shaves

Soooooo what do i need for a bit of home brewing

Cool Mo D

Maybe seriously clamping down on public-order related problems would be a good way to raise revenue, and combat binge drinking? On the spot €200 fines for puking, pissing or fighting on the street, €500 fines for having a blood alcohol content over 0.15 attending A&E, or the like.

MadsL

darokane wrote: »

Soooooo what do i need for a bit of home brewing

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1353

Inverse to the power of one!

I'd recommend the NZ approach:

-You get carded if you look under 25 - Big fines if you don't.
-The premises you are on is responsible for your Welfare, if you leave the premises drunk and die on the way home due to being intoxicated - they can be held liable. All of a sudden it is in their interests to sober you up if they see you in trouble.
-Drink campaigns focus on community based support, where you are asked to look out for your friends and actually tell them when their drinking is a problem.
-Drink driving is a criminal offence.
-Liquor bans in all city and town centers - 1-3K fine.

Also, in Ireland it's time we lined up and kicked the vintners hard. When I was at home at Christmas, it was disgraceful! I mean seriously disgraceful! Both locals opened on Christmas day, one gave a recovering alcoholic a bottle of whiskey on that day!!! These locals without question feed drink to the local Alco's, never once refusing their business.

I'm quite liberal in that we should have longer opening hours, but at the same time the behavior in our bars needs to improve dramatically and this is something only us as a society can tackle.

Sadly our situation consists of poorly thought out political kneejerks, and overly tolerant attitudes. Were we to reverse this, come up with good policy and face up as a society to our relation with Alcohol, then we might have a chance to turn it round.

But I'll bet you, we'll still be having this conversation in 15 years.......Good thing gaming is turning the next generation in to a bunch of home-bound recluses :P

goose2005

MadsL wrote: »

yeah, 18 years are 'adults' and responsible when it comes to drinking....how well is that working at the minute??

How about raise the alcohol off-licence buying age to 25 then?

Most people who drink themselves to death are much older than 18. If we banned over-50s from drinking that would also reduce the death rate - why do people seem to think that the rights of young adults can be trampled on (can't stand for election, lower social welfare, etc.) for any reason.

The best thing to do is to severely punish public drinking and drunkenness

jester77

They need to change the habits of the people, not the law. Any time I go to Ireland and people suggest to meet up, it is always 100% without fail something to do with alcohol. Whereas here in Germany, when people suggest to meet up, you can be sure it will be varied and most of the time nothing to do with alcohol.

Until people realise that there is more to a social life than drinking alcohol, then changing laws is going to do nothing to solve the current issues.

Dannyboy83

People are suggesting new laws and that, which is fine, but none of it will have any effect.

Either you break the stranglehold which Vitners have, or you accept the status quo.
It really is that simple.

The problem with this, as I said previously, is that this has nothing to do with alcohol abuse.
If you look at FG's manifesto from last year, section 5.3:
http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/Fine%20Gael%20Manifesto%20low-res.pdf

Supporting Irish Pubs: Fine Gael recognises the importance of the Irish pub for tourism, rural jobs and as
a social outlet in communities across the country. We will support the local pub by banning the practice
of below cost selling on alcohol, particularly by large supermarkets and the impact this has had on alcohol
consumption and the viability of pubs.

I suppose we also don't need to mention the lobbying the VF has done to the govt, complaining that they're going out of business.

No, this has nothing to do with binge drinking and everything to do with the govt propping up the pubs. And now they're lying about it.

Let binge drinkers who cause trouble pay fines for causing a nuisance in public, pay their own hospital bills, etc. After that, they can drink however much they want.

Someone mentioned buying drink for children - you can if they're your own children or their guardian has given permission.

jackiebaron

MadsL wrote: »

Why penalise adult drinkers.

1. Raise alcohol drinking age to 21
2. ID must be shown by all to buy booze
3. Five figure fine for retailers who fail to check ID
4. Mandatory prison term for anyone buying booze for teens

Done. Problem solved - Cheap booze for all adults. Hurrah!

How will raising the drinking age to 21 solve anything? Drinking age is 16 in Holland and Germany and they don't have a problem with binge drinking. Drinking age in the US was raised to 21 and it solved nothing.

MadsL

The average age of first alcohol use for children born in 1990 was 14 – in 1980, it was 16

In the most recent survey of drinking among European 15 and 16‑year‑olds more Irish girls (44%) than boys (42%) reported binge-drinking in the last month (2007 ESPAD survey)

Over half reported being drunk at least once by the age of 16

The survey identified “a major issue around drunkeness”

A recent report by the Office of Tobacco Control (2006) revealed that our 16 to 17‑year‑olds spend an average of €20·09+ per week on alcohol. This amounts to an illegal alcohol market of €145m in this country

Alcohol offences are the main offence for which children are referred to the Garda Youth Diversion Programme, accounting for almost a fifth of youth crimes - in addition, many crimes are committed by young people when drinking. Bringing the proportion of crimes where alcohol is a factor up to half all of all youth crimes.

http://alcoholireland.ie/alcohol-facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/

Yes, we have a problem.

goose2005 wrote:

Most people who drink themselves to death are much older than 18. If we banned over-50s from drinking that would also reduce the death rate

Do you think they started young or in later life?

It takes a while to destroy your liver, but young people are showing signs of liver failure earlier in life..

Alcoholic liver disease rates and deaths almost trebled (190% increase) between 1995 and 2007. The figures also reveal considerable increases of alcohol liver disease among younger age groups. Among 15-34 years olds, the rate of ALD discharges increased by 247%, while for the 35-49 age group, the rate increased by 224%.These increases occurred in parallel with increases in alcohol consumption and harmful drinking patterns

Same source

MadsL

jackiebaron wrote: »

How will raising the drinking age to 21 solve anything? Drinking age is 16 in Holland and Germany and they don't have a problem with binge drinking. Drinking age in the US was raised to 21 and it solved nothing.

You sure about that?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,551532,00.html

Germany Reports Surge in Teenage Binge Drinking

According to recent research, young people in the Netherlands drink a lot of alcohol, more than their peers in other countries.

http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unyin/documents/wpaysubmissions/netherlands.pdf

cavedave

There is one workplace in Ireland that has been caught in the past running an unlicensed shebeen.

After such brazen flouting of or alcohol laws I think it is time we introduce mandatory random alcohol testing (like in indiana) in this workplace before the drunken maniacs do something dangerous.

p1akuw47h5r3it

If the drinking age rises to 21 all it is going to do is cause more people (i.e 18 to 20 year olds) getting drink illegally by doing what 16-17 year olds do, getting a legal mate to get it for them. it wont change anything.

Drumpot

Personally I dont have a problem with them putting something like a €1 tax on cans of beer and a proportionate tax on spirits (notice I say tax, not minimum price). Its a good way of generating revenue (cause few, if any will seriously change the AMOUNT they drink, just their habits) and they can pretend that its about binge drinking.

What I would say in our defence (I dont normally defend bad habits) is that I heard before that the more a country is further from the equator, statistics show that the more the people drink (I think its related to lack of sunlight).

The solution to binge drinking is education and an encouraged change in culture.

Cardinal Richelieu

MadsL wrote: »

Why penalise adult drinkers.

1. Raise alcohol drinking age to 21
2. ID must be shown by all to buy booze
3. Five figure fine for retailers who fail to check ID
4. Mandatory prison term for anyone buying booze for teens

Done. Problem solved - Cheap booze for all adults. Hurrah!

Stand in any supermarket booze aisle in Dublin and listen to parents asking there under 18 teenager how many bacardi breezers they want this weekend. I like to see someone try bringing a case against one of those parents.

MadsL

DanDan6592 wrote: »

If the drinking age rises to 21 all it is going to do is cause more people (i.e 18 to 20 year olds) getting drink illegally by doing what 16-17 year olds do, getting a legal mate to get it for them. it wont change anything.

I get carded here in New Mexico every time I buy booze at the Supermarket; Anyone selling booze cards because the penalties are huge for making a mistake, so even though I have grey hair and am clearly pushing 50 - I get carded.

Now 'fishing' really doesn't exist here because no-one wants a 4th Degree Felony on their record, a $5000 fine and/or 18 months in a cell with some badass meth head. You would be out of your mind to buy booze for under 21s.

In Ireland, it is rarely policed and very little done if you get caught. We don't need to penalise adult drinkers, we need to make it very difficult for minors to get their hands on alcohol, the best way to do that in my book is to elevate the drinking age.

MadsL

Cardinal Richelieu wrote: »

Stand in any supermarket booze aisle in Dublin and listen to parents asking there under 18 teenager how many bacardi breezers they want this weekend. I like to see someone try bringing a case against one of those parents.

What do you mean by that? 'like to see someone try' means what exactly....

a. It wouldn't happen.
b. They would be a rumpus
c. You would like to witness it.
d. It shouldn't happen

The shop shouldn't be serving them if it is clear that the booze is meant for teenagers under 18. Sigh. Carlsberg don't do law enforcement, but if they did.

jackiebaron

MadsL wrote: »

You sure about that?
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,551532,00.html

Germany Reports Surge in Teenage Binge Drinking



http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unyin/documents/wpaysubmissions/netherlands.pdf[/QUOTE]


Depends on your definition of binge drinking. Most teenagers haven't a clue what their tolerance is so they keep going. By some definitions 4 drinks in a 4 hour period comprises a binge. This to me is laughable. I see Dutch 16 year olds in the pub and they'll drink the equivalent of 3 pints over the course of 4 or 5 hours and they'll be pretty merry and glassy eyed. In Dublin you'll see 16 year olds mix a 75 cl bottle of vodka with a litre of club orange and neck the whole damn thing or at least polish it off in the space of an hour. Now THAT's bingeing. You'll see teenage girls out of their minds staggering around the streets, falling, vomiting, crying and their friends who are equally wasted trying to drag them up off the pavement. These teenagers clearly don't know their own limits but it doesn't change when they get older. They still get wasted. In Germany and Holland the naive teenagers tend to mature when they hit their 20's and recognise their own tolerances. You'd never see (or very rarely) Dutch youths in their 20's using bacardi breezers as bloody mixers for shots of vodka. You'd never see the table absolutely stacked with full pints and accompanying jaegerbombs or vodak-redbulls.
There is practically no drinking age in France, Italy, Spain, etc. They don't get wrecked there.
I personally put it down to lad/ladette culture. You go to the pub with your mates to have a bellyful of beer and hopefully pull a bird. Now in most European cultures a girl isn't going to give you a second look if your a slurring redfaced fool reeking of booze. In Ireland/England the girl is most likely going to be in the same condition and will shove her tongue in your mouth once you say hello. That's fine...all good fun...but there's no incentive to act like a gentleman and conduct yourself in an appropriate manner when on the pull so why worry about the amount of booze you flush down your neck?
And of course if at the end of the night some little dollybird hasn't gone home with you or invited you home or at least given you her number well then you can always finish off the night with a brawl out side the chipper and punch up some inniocent bystander or persecute the taxi-driver, security guard or burger flipper.
Advertising of alcohol iin Ireland and the UK has constantly used sex to peddle their wares from the innocent Sally O'Brien Harp ads of the 70's right up to "mad for it" ladettes dancing on tables in Bacardi and Malibu commercials.
Dunno call me a sentimental old fool but while I like drinking myself and like chatting up women who've had a few (obviously not blind drunk and smelling of vomit) watching people falling over themselves and picking fights or harassing each other and pissing on doorways and mooning every passerby just doesn't strike me as fun loving cheeky chappies having a laugh. It's ugly and it a problem.
Maybe it's just us white folk who feel the need to get shïtfaced. It happens in Ireland, England, Iceland, Scandinavia and as for Baltic and East European countries...forget about it. To them you're not a man if you haven't developed cirrhosis of the liver by the time you're thirty. Aussies seem to pound down the booze with gusto as do South Africans.

I don't know how you're going to change the attitude towards booze in Ireland and other place but I can't see raising age limits having an effect at all. It's hasn't cut down on drink driving in the US and that's what it was intended to reduce. Jacking up the prices won't achieve a thing either. It'll just produce a market for cheaper and maybe smuggled alcohol. You can buy wine in French supermarkets for less than a Euro a litre. Do you see French kids passed out in gutters? No. Booze is exorbitant in Sweden. They still get bladdered thursday to sunday. They just suck down cheaper vodka in the house before going out half-cut to bars and night clubs. No the problem is that the mentality around booze is that it's a luxury and it's cool. I say a luxury because you rarely see anyone letting booze "go to waste". How often do you see someone finishing someone else's pint rather than leaving it on the table and going home. These people would never do that with a half-finished cup of coffee but they do it with a warm, stale, flat pint of lager or ale. Even though they've probably just barfed in the jacks previously. Amazing.

CiaranC

God this sanctimonious anti-booze nonsense is getting so tiresome. Apparently we should be more German now, good grief. Id rather be dead than be "more German". Cant the Joe Duffy brigade move on to a new whinge-fest and give the rest of us a break? It would drive you to drink,

johnnyskeleton

Drumpot wrote: »

Personally I dont have a problem with them putting something like a €1 tax on cans of beer and a proportionate tax on spirits (notice I say tax, not minimum price). Its a good way of generating revenue (cause few, if any will seriously change the AMOUNT they drink, just their habits) and they can pretend that its about binge drinking.

What I would say in our defence (I dont normally defend bad habits) is that I heard before that the more a country is further from the equator, statistics show that the more the people drink (I think its related to lack of sunlight).

The solution to binge drinking is education and an encouraged change in culture.

Surely thenthe real solution is to pick Ireland up and drop it off somewhere sunny?

MadsL

CiaranC wrote: »

God this sanctimonious anti-booze nonsense is getting so tiresome. Apparently we should be more German now, good grief. Id rather be dead than be "more German". Cant the Joe Duffy brigade move on to a new whinge-fest and give the rest of us a break? It would drive you to drink,

Would getting some money back make you feel better...

Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland an estimated €3.7 billion in 2007 - that's a cost of €3318 on each person paying income tax in Ireland ...

http://alcoholireland.ie/alcohol-facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/

Prohibition would cover the bailout!!!

Drumpot

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Surely thenthe real solution is to pick Ireland up and drop it off somewhere sunny?

For some reason a cloud seems to always be close behind the Irish, doesnt matter where we go . . .:D

CiaranC

MadsL wrote: »

Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland an estimated €3.7 billion in 2007 - that's a cost of €3318 on each person paying income tax in Ireland ...

What a load of nonsense, where is the proof of this?

jased10s

Originally Posted by MadsL View Post
Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland an estimated €3.7 billion in 2007 - that's a cost of €3318 on each person paying income tax in Ireland ...

No to piss on your parade MasdL but USC cost me over 3k last year , and that covered the bankers and developers pissup's and partying and reckelss behaviour but we still payed.

Cardinal Richelieu

MadsL wrote: »

What do you mean by that? 'like to see someone try' means what exactly....

a. It wouldn't happen.
b. They would be a rumpus
c. You would like to witness it.
d. It shouldn't happen

The shop shouldn't be serving them if it is clear that the booze is meant for teenagers under 18. Sigh. Carlsberg don't do law enforcement, but if they did.

My point that you misread was that it does happen but apart from putting listening devices in the alcohol aisle how can you stop a parent buying drink for their kids? Are you expecting customers to walk up to the checkout or manager and say "sorry that lady is buying that drink for her underage child there"? :rolleyes:

What they should do and I think it has been raised by lobby groups is bring back the off license with till to supermarkets and outlaw the booze aisle.

SeanW

We had a solution, or at least part of one, when Michael McDowell wanted to introduce cafe-bar licensing, which would promote a Continental culture of eating and drinking. But ... there were too many publican backbenchers in Fianna Fail.

Lockstep

For sure.

I really miss the café-bars. They were great.
Sadly, at the time 40% of FF TDs were publicans.

omen80

Why do we need a solution to binge drinking anyway? It's a person's own fault if they wreck their liver or loose their job etc. I do think the legal age should be increased to 21 though. And maybe an increased number of guards/army out on the streets to deal with the drunken loonatics. But the majority of people shouldn't be punished for the few gobsh1tes that cause trouble every week.
Also, no booze sold to anyone wearing socks over their tracksuit bottoms!

p1akuw47h5r3it

MadsL wrote: »

I get carded here in New Mexico every time I buy booze at the Supermarket; Anyone selling booze cards because the penalties are huge for making a mistake, so even though I have grey hair and am clearly pushing 50 - I get carded.

Now 'fishing' really doesn't exist here because no-one wants a 4th Degree Felony on their record, a $5000 fine and/or 18 months in a cell with some badass meth head. You would be out of your mind to buy booze for under 21s.

In Ireland, it is rarely policed and very little done if you get caught. We don't need to penalise adult drinkers, we need to make it very difficult for minors to get their hands on alcohol, the best way to do that in my book is to elevate the drinking age.

How do they know you would be buying for someone who is underage. I'm 19,I wouldnt be drinking ina field. I'd be in my house and my mate would go up to the shop and bring it back to my house. He wouldn't be caught.

jackiebaron

MadsL wrote: »

Would getting some money back make you feel better...



http://alcoholireland.ie/alcohol-facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/

Prohibition would cover the bailout!!!

Swings and roundabouts MadsL.

The income from booze practically funds the health service.

Tomk1

Not sure if posting in the right thread as I want to post about a solution to Binge-drinking, not alcoholism, under/overage, rants.

1st: what is it, what causes it?
My own def. is: consuming as much alcohol content within a limited time to achieve the best bang per buck per hour.

Cause, from my own experience when I started drinking 18 going on 19, (so no past experience of being drunk or drink). Head out after nine, between deciding where to go and having to queue for a drink well after 9:30, so have one or two, nexted it's time to stay or move on, so into another pub, and time to knock a few back before last orders, so nearly a full pint in hand, better get another with the bell, sometimes could even get another in if they kept serving (normal case) then 10 mins to sink them as your ousted out. - might get into a pub selling after hours.

Years later studying at collage, you only have X amount of money, so buy cans by the alcohol % per punt, and drink as many as you can, before leaving for a club with just enough money for a few drinks.

Many years latter with a full time job I use to head out a few nights a week, enjoy a couple of drinks over a few hours, no binge drinking as no need for it, I had lots of money, I could drink all day Saturday/Sunday if I wanted to drink what I use to drink within 2 hours.

I think what changed my opinion with drink was in Germany (as another poster said) you can head out anytime, your not tied to any one pub as very late hours, you can drink have some food, head to the cinema, back to a late bar. No time constrant and bottles of beer was cheap, so no need to drink them all in one go.

So my solution is contray to the popular opinion which is not working,
(i) allow bars to open 24 hours if they want,
(ii) reduce the price of drink,
(iii) allow drink in the non-pub scene, cafe's, cinemas maybe not as far as the work place as they do in Germany.

The government should not act as a nanny state, but allow people the maturity to grow up with drink in a healthy environment, assist and educate. Yes there will still be problems (but do not confuse alcoholism with people acting like a kid in a candy store), I hate when people shift blame rather than taking responsability for their own actions, I should of started moneratly drinking earlier, now I have 2 beers followed by a strong cuppa tea.

MadsL

I noticed in a few bars here that the have a drink limit. 3 hard drinks, 5 beers. Even one of the Irish bars has a drink limit.

The reason is that the State applies stiff penalties for serving someone known to be drunk.

Would drink limits work?

ART6

Tomk1 I agree with most of your post. Unfortunately we have another binge culture in this country. It is the government practise of taking a bludgeon to any perceived problem, thereby penalising the whole population to deal with the sins of the minority. Always take an over-simplistic view and then take a big hammer to it. Rational thought is not, regrettably, a political technique here

So, restrict the hours during which people can by alcohol, because they surely wouldn't simply buy more of it sooner, would they? Artificially increase the price per unit of alcohol so that a 14 unit bottle of strong cider will rise to €7 - €8, as that will make binge drinking the stuff unaffordable. However, that would mean that a 30 unit bottle of whiskey could drop from €25 to €15. But the binge drinkers would have the gumption to go and buy whiskey or vodka instead, would they?

It is considered that we need to develop the "cafe" society approach to drinking that is common in Europe, because they don't seem to go in for binge drinking in France and Germany. No, because they can have a drink, a meal, and a further drink with friends at any time. However, try getting blind drunk and causing problems in either of those countries, and you quickly find out how their laws reward irresponsible behaviour. We too have such laws. Apply them and stop inventing new ones!

BKtje

MadsL wrote: »

I noticed in a few bars here that the have a drink limit. 3 hard drinks, 5 beers. Even one of the Irish bars has a drink limit.

The reason is that the State applies stiff penalties for serving someone known to be drunk.

Would drink limits work?

How would this work though? I work in a bar (albeit in Switzerland where the age is 16 etc but my point stands) and I can barely remember what someones order is let alone how many they've had due to the absoulte volume of people that pass through on any given night. There are also usually 4 to 5 of us so how would we coordinate?

Do we have to give people vouchers as they walk in the door? What's to stop them just going next door once they've had their limit?

I'm sick of nanny states (read Ireland) over interfering in the lives of its citizens, if someone wants to get drunk then that's their business. I do agree there needs to be a change in attitude towards drink in Ireland but it can only be done through education and not by laws like this.