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Driving with no insurance disc displayed?

  • 27-01-2012 11:56am
    #1
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,761 ✭✭✭✭
    M


    Is it a legal requirement to have an insurance disc displayed on a car either while driving or when parked in a public place or is it proof of enough to have your certificate of insurance with you?

    The reason I ask is I'm looking at driving another family members car which is taxed, NCT'd but uninsured to anyone at the moment, my policy allows me drive other cars provided I don't own them.


Comments

  • #2
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    yes, its illegal, 60eu fine, no points (open to correction)
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1986/en/si/0443.html
    failure to display an insurance disc in contravention of regulations made under section 11 of the Act

    its not the same as driving without insurance

    however, a garda would be having a bad day to fine you if you have the docs with you (IMHO / IANAL)


  • #3
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    Insurance disc must be displayed by law.

    As for your insurance, I thought the "drive any other car" required the other car to be insured regardless.


  • #4
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Sounds like you are confusing the standard "can drive other cars with owners permission" clause with Open insurance when you really can drive any other vehicle.

    Or am I wrong can someone find me a definition of OPEN?!


  • #5
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Take your own disc with you which will be correct in every detail other than the reg number. You can't be done for not displaying a dsic then and in the unlikely event of a ticket, it will get squashed once you prove you were properly insured and a disc giving details was displayed. TYou should carry your cert too


  • #6
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    .

    As for your insurance, I thought the "drive any other car" required the other car to be insured regardless.

    not true (at least with most major compnies)


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  • #7
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    Mr. Presentable wrote: »
    As for your insurance, I thought the "drive any other car" required the other car to be insured regardless.

    nope, very very very few policies have that clause included


  • #8
    clancyoo7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭clancyoo7


    corktina wrote: »
    Take your own disc with you which will be correct in every detail other than the reg number. You can't be done for not displaying a dsic then and in the unlikely event of a ticket, it will get squashed once you prove you were properly insured and a disc giving details was displayed. TYou should carry your cert too

    To use a insurance disc that is not for the vehicle specified would be using a false instrument.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0026.html#sec26


  • #9
    puppetmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭puppetmaster


    Yeh i checked on my current and previous policy about if the other car needed to be currently insured and they said it didnt as it was covered under my policy once i was driving it.


  • #10
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Is it a legal requirement to have an insurance disc displayed on a car either while driving or when parked in a public place or is it proof of enough to have your certificate of insurance with you?

    The reason I ask is I'm looking at driving another family members car which is taxed, NCT'd but uninsured to anyone at the moment, my policy allows me drive other cars provided I don't own them.

    ..couple of things there that might help you:

    1. Yes, you need to display a disc covering you on the car.

    2. You're insurance may have DOV - Driving Other Vehicles - but check the small print: some say you have DOV provided it itself is insured by the owner, other policies don't.

    3. So, you've discovered that you don't have the small print exclusion, and that you are covered to drive it under your own policy. So, what to do about the disc ? Simple - you use yours. It's very straightforward, and here's why. The requirement is that, under the Road Traffic Act that you have a policy that covers you and you are issued a disc with that policy for display purposes (as pointed out in the post above). This means that the disc that entitles you to drive your family member's car legally, is the one with the reg of your reg your car on it - not the reg of the car you're driving. This being the case, the correct disc to display for that car, when you're in it........is your own.

    That's my 0.02, and if you were out in it, always carry your cert with you as well - this way any roadside AGS questions can be put to bed there and then.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #11
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    clancyoo7 wrote: »
    To use a insurance disc that is not for the vehicle specified would be using a false instrument.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0026.html#sec26

    no it wouldnt because it ISN'T false, its the real McCoy


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  • #12
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    clancyoo7 wrote: »
    To use a insurance disc that is not for the vehicle specified would be using a false instrument.
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0026.html#sec26

    No.

    There is a difference between using a disc which does cover you, but bears a different reg, and a 'false' disc - i.e. just moving disc's around. One is legit, the other, not.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #13
    clancyoo7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭clancyoo7


    corktina wrote: »
    no it wouldnt because it ISN'T false, its the real McCoy

    You are correct it is the real mccoy, but for the car specified, sure why not bring the road tax and nct with it and complete the set. Would it not be better to get a cover note from the insurance company.


  • #14
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,761 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Cheers lads, I will bring my disc with me and the cert to be sure and that should be everyone happy. My policy covers other cars once I don't own or have rented them, there's no exclusion on it being already insured. It technically sounds like a cheap way to drive a 2nd car on the cheap, without the need for a 2nd policy, one you don't own ofcourse. I'm aware that it's likely 3rd party only cover.


  • #15
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    clancyoo7 wrote: »
    You are correct it is the real mccoy, but for the car specified, sure why not bring the road tax and nct with it and complete the set. Would it not be better to get a cover note from the insurance company.

    so you agree it isnt a false instrument? Its only false if its a forgery or doesnt cover you to drive that vehicle.

    Your point about the tax and NCT is ridiculous. They don't cover your borrowed vehicle whereas the Insurance Disc does.

    Cover note? Does that protect you from a ticket for not having a disc displayed? Nope don't think so


  • #16
    clancyoo7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭clancyoo7


    corktina wrote: »
    so you agree it isnt a false instrument? Its only false if its a forgery or doesnt cover you to drive that vehicle.

    Your point about the tax and NCT is ridiculous. They don't cover your borrowed vehicle whereas the Insurance Disc does.

    Cover note? Does that protect you from a ticket for not having a disc displayed? Nope don't think so

    The disc is valid for a specified car only, for people to go around swapping disc with different reg plates on them sounds like madness to me. The disc is not valid for that car and would constitute a false instrument. The op is correct in bring his cert of insurance with him.


  • #17
    cormie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Wasn't aware you could do this, I was sure the other vehicle had to already be insured. What I would point out however is that if you are doing this, to make sure not to leave your own car in a public place with its disc missing as you may get a fine on that...


  • #18
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    clancyoo7 wrote: »
    You are correct it is the real mccoy, but for the car specified, sure why not bring the road tax and nct with it and complete the set. Would it not be better to get a cover note from the insurance company.

    No need to act smart - you know full well that the tax disc and NCT disc are vehicle specific.

    Insurance is not always - it's not the vehicle that's insured - it's the driving of it - by a driver.
    clancyoo7 wrote: »
    The disc is valid for a specified car only, ...... The disc is not valid for that car and would constitute a false instrument. .....

    As pointed out - several times - you are factually incorrect.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #19
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    clancyoo7 wrote: »
    The disc is valid for a specified car only, for people to go around swapping disc with different reg plates on them sounds like madness to me. The disc is not valid for that car and would constitute a false instrument. The op is correct in bring his cert of insurance with him.

    it isnt specific to a particular car, if the policy covers you to drive other cars.. It has a reg number on it, but if your ploicy allows you drive other cars, it is the correct disc to display on any car. You have nothing to fear from this as you can prove it all in court if needs be and its better than not displaying a disc which is an offense.


  • #20
    clancyoo7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭clancyoo7


    galwaytt wrote: »
    No need to act smart - you know full well that the tax disc and NCT disc are vehicle specific.

    Insurance is not always - it's not the car that's insured - it's the driving of it - by a driver.

    Why is the the insurance disc vehicle specified then ?.

    The insurance company should leave it left blank where registration has to go, when it is an open policy.


  • #21
    Top Dog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,175 ✭✭✭Top Dog


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    It technically sounds like a cheap way to drive a 2nd car on the cheap, without the need for a 2nd policy, one you don't own ofcourse. I'm aware that it's likely 3rd party only cover.
    It sounds like it - but without an insurance policy that relates to the exact vehicle, you won't be able to tax it so the plan falls apart ;)


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  • #22
    User Friendly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭User Friendly


    corktina wrote: »
    no it wouldnt because it ISN'T false, its the real McCoy
    galwaytt wrote: »
    No.

    There is a difference between using a disc which does cover you, but bears a different reg, and a 'false' disc - i.e. just moving disc's around. One is legit, the other, not.
    Clancy is 100% correct,i cant believe you are suggesting to people to use documents from another car....:rolleyes:


    The most important part of the insurance disc is the policy number,write this down and keep it with the car you are going to drive.


  • #23
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,761 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Top Dog wrote: »
    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    It technically sounds like a cheap way to drive a 2nd car on the cheap, without the need for a 2nd policy, one you don't own ofcourse. I'm aware that it's likely 3rd party only cover.
    It sounds like it - but without an insurance policy that relates to the exact vehicle, you won't be able to tax it so the plan falls apart ;)

    Actually on the RF100A form Note 4 looks for insurance details it doesn't say cover must be specific to the exact vehicle, only stipulation is that "the insurance is appropriate to be declared use of the vehicle" so it still would be as other cars are covered on my existing policy.


  • #24
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    clancyoo7 wrote: »
    Why is the the insurance disc vehicle specified then ?.

    The insurance company should leave it left blank where registration has to go, when it is an open policy.

    it isnt an open policy , thats different altogether. Generally that would be for anyone to drive your car. A policy for you to drive any car would be differenrt again (something like a traders policy)


  • #25
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    clancyoo7 wrote: »
    Why is the the insurance disc vehicle specified then ?.

    The insurance company should leave it left blank where registration has to go, when it is an open policy.

    They do - it isn't always shown. It's only on the ones you have looked at.
    And what OP has isn't and Open Policy. That is not the issue. He is 100% legally covered to drive the vehicle, and he has checked it with the ins co.
    User Friendly wrote: »
    Clancy is 100% correct,i cant believe you are suggesting to people to use documents from another car....:rolleyes:


    The most important part of the insurance disc is the policy number,write this down and keep it with the car you are going to drive.

    I can't believe you can't read properly. double: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    The documents don't belong to the CAR.

    And then you go and prove my point by stating that the most important bit on the disc is the policy number. Which is what I have written. Ergo, the reg on the disc is NOT the most important part.....

    Either way - OP is still insured to drive it.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #26
    clancyoo7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭clancyoo7


    galwaytt wrote: »
    clancyoo7 wrote: »
    Why is the the insurance disc vehicle specified then ?.

    The insurance company should leave it left blank where registration has to go, when it is an open policy.

    They do - it isn't always shown. It's only on the ones you have looked at.
    And what OP has isn't and Open Policy. That is not the issue. He is 100% legally covered to drive the vehicle, and he has checked it with the ins co.
    User Friendly wrote: »
    Clancy is 100% correct,i cant believe you are suggesting to people to use documents from another car....:rolleyes:


    The most important part of the insurance disc is the policy number,write this down and keep it with the car you are going to drive.

    I can't believe you can't read properly. double: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

    The documents don't belong to the CAR.

    And then you go and prove my point by stating that the most important bit on the disc is the policy number. Which is what I have written. Ergo, the reg on the disc is NOT the most important part.....

    Either way - OP is still insured to drive it.
    Yes the op is insured to drive. But the insurance disc is not valid for 2nd vehicle.


  • #27
    Theanswers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Theanswers


    I have a fleet insuracne policy.
    The insurance disc do not have a reg on them... Instead you move them with you as you move car.

    Thus it's not attached to a certain.
    All though, If I was in the OPs situation I would bring along my insurance disc even showing the wrong reg because this is the insurance that is covering the car to be driven.
    'valid insurance' which it is...


  • #28
    Gophur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Gophur


    cormie wrote: »
    Wasn't aware you could do this, I was sure the other vehicle had to already be insured............

    Define "insured" ?

    For what?

    By Whom?

    What possible reason could there be to insist a car, being driven by someone on his own policy, had to be featured in another policy?


  • #29
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    Gophur wrote: »
    Define "insured" ?

    For what?

    By Whom?

    What possible reason could there be to insist a car, being driven by someone on his own policy, had to be featured in another policy?
    its just a stipulation that appears on some policies.
    i had it on my car when i was insured with RSA or hibernian (cant remember who exactly)

    they never gave me a reason so i concluded that, potentially, it ensures i dont insure a cinquecento and drive my "mates" porsche all the time. i.e. the porsche would be insured by someone so no real benefit to keeping a car in someone elses name to get cheap TPO


  • #30
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    I think where the confusion arises is that Insurance Companies say that you will be covered under your policy to drive another car, provided that the cover on that car does NOT cover you. If it DOES cover you, that Insurance takes precedence


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  • #31
    creedp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭creedp


    subway wrote: »
    its just a stipulation that appears on some policies.
    i had it on my car when i was insured with RSA or hibernian (cant remember who exactly)

    they never gave me a reason so i concluded that, potentially, it ensures i dont insure a cinquecento and drive my "mates" porsche all the time. i.e. the porsche would be insured by someone so no real benefit to keeping a car in someone elses name to get cheap TPO


    I would think Galwaytt is correct in his assertion that the OP can legally drive the family members car (but with 3rd party cover only in most cases - check policy - not sure how valuable car is). However, I would caution doing this long term. I would have thought (correct me if Im wrong) that this is supposed to be used on a very short term/irregular basis. If a claim ensued and the insurance company found that this car was being driven regularly by you it could have implication for your insurance cover. Otherwise as pointed out above, we'd all try to pull the fast one of insuring a cinquecento while driving the 'mates porsche'! That is of course if the mate was foolish enough to allow this to happen on regular basis!! However, it seems like a very reasonable approach to take on a short term basis.


  • #32
    cormie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Theanswers wrote: »
    I have a fleet insuracne policy.
    The insurance disc do not have a reg on them... Instead you move them with you as you move car.

    Thus it's not attached to a certain.
    All though, If I was in the OPs situation I would bring along my insurance disc even showing the wrong reg because this is the insurance that is covering the car to be driven.
    'valid insurance' which it is...

    Be careful here, my own fleet policy only allows me to drive the cars listed on the policy (although doing a temp transfer is easy), but unfortunately it states that I can't just drive any vehicle and that I'm only insured to do so if moving it out of the way of something (it actually says something along these lines).
    Gophur wrote: »
    Define "insured" ?

    For what?

    By Whom?

    What possible reason could there be to insist a car, being driven by someone on his own policy, had to be featured in another policy?

    As in, under "somebodies" policy, the rest, well it depends on the insurer, but it is the case on some policies.


  • #33
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    creedp wrote: »
    If a claim ensued and the insurance company found that this car was being driven regularly by you it could have implication for your insurance cover.
    from what i read, the reason its very difficult to get "driving other cars" in the UK is because so many people were exploting the loop hole. i've no doubt you would have a sore backside if you were found out, but i suppose it comes down to "how" you would be found it
    creedp wrote: »
    Otherwise as pointed out above, we'd all try to pull the fast one of insuring a cinquecento while driving the 'mates porsche'! That is of course if the mate was foolish enough to allow this to happen on regular basis!! However, it seems like a very reasonable approach to take on a short term basis.

    ahh yes, but, the less scrupulous person might buy a porsche as a gift for an aging relative or a friend who is out of the country.


  • #34
    Veloce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭Veloce


    What is the situation when you have renewed your insurance and you are waiting for your new disc to arrive in the post? Can you still be fined for having the out of date disc on display a few days after it's expiry?


  • #35
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    Veloce wrote: »
    What is the situation when you have renewed your insurance and you are waiting for your new disc to arrive in the post? Can you still be fined for having the out of date disc on display a few days after it's expiry?
    could you? technically speaking, yes, its a small fine for non display.
    would you? i would imagine its extremely unlikely that a garda would pursue it if you presented docs within 10 days at a station.

    regardless, you wouldn't be done for driving without insurance in either scenario


  • #36
    tanko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,316 ✭✭✭tanko


    Does all this mean that i can drive two cars, say one car during the week and a "weekend car", one of which i own and the other registered in my sisters name (who has a company car) and just have one insurance policy? Assuming both cars have tax and nct.This sounds too good to be true.


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  • #37
    -Corkie-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭-Corkie-


    tanko wrote: »
    Does all this mean that i can drive two cars, say one car during the week and a "weekend car", one of which i own and the other registered in my sisters name (who has a company car) and just have one insurance policy? Assuming both cars have tax and nct.This sounds too good to be true.

    Well yes as long as its not registered to you and its taxed and tested. Quinn do such a policy and I have it..


  • #38
    C4Kid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭C4Kid


    Last time I renewed my insurance I forgot to install the new disc when it arrived.Two days later I passed through a checkpoint and was left off and told produce the cert within 10 days at the local station.

    Down to the discretion of the Garda I perhaps?


  • #39
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    -Corkie- wrote: »
    Well yes as long as its not registered to you and its taxed and tested. Quinn do such a policy and I have it..

    some Insurance Companies state no family owned cars but what is suggested is quite OK so long as your policy allows for it.You are paying for that cover after all. It's probably only 3rd party cover though


  • #40
    -Corkie-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭-Corkie-


    corktina wrote: »
    some Insurance Companies state no family owned cars but what is suggested is quite OK so long as your policy allows for it.You are paying for that cover after all. It's probably only 3rd party cover though

    Its only third party allright but its very handy, also a named driver on the policy cannot avail of this..


  • #41
    cormie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,844 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Also, sometimes it may state the other vehicle can only be a maximum of 1.6l for example..


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  • #42
    Milk & Honey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    Whenever I change my car I get my insurance broker to fax confirmation that cover is in my name on the new car. The car doesn't move until I have that fax in my hand. There is no need for a disk for 10 days. It is still technically an offence to drive the car without an insurance cert.


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