18 month habitual residence rule for IEC?

godman

Is this a new rule? I was away in Oz for over 18months in the last 3 years, with my girlfriend. She applied for her visa last year and got it no problem(even though she would have been out of Ireland for over 18months). I just missed the deadline so I have to apply for the 2012 program.

The thing is, the 18 month habitual residence would effectively rule me out for a visa? Is there anyway around this or are they strict with this as the other half has her visa and we're just about to send mine off so we can get out of here.

JohnMearsheimer

Ya, I'm sure it's new for 2012.

FreeAnd..

yeah its a newish rule unfortunately...even though im here in Canada. if this rule was in last year when I applied I would not have got it and this now rules me out of a consecutive second year

Brian CivilEng

My wife is originally from Norway so we checked with the Canadian embassy before applying, she isn't eligible to apply because of this rule. Annoying (I'm really going to miss her )

godman

Cheers lads, what is the point in this rule? Is there anyway around it?

retalivity

Doesnt look like it. I thought it wouldnt be strictly enforced, but it appears that people are getting rejected right left & centre over it

Colmfatcamp

Only way around it is to lie. Not recommended, but hard for the immigration team to know.

JohnMearsheimer

I'd imagine they're doing it to stop people from visa hopping.

godman

Cheers lads.. I'm just going to chance my arm.. I'm desperate now.. can't exactly lie because I sent in an application last year but forgot to include some info and it was sent back to me. IS there any other working holiday visa I could apply for should I be shot down for the IEC one?

JohnMearsheimer

godman wrote: »

Cheers lads.. I'm just going to chance my arm.. I'm desperate now.. can't exactly lie because I sent in an application last year but forgot to include some info and it was sent back to me. IS there any other working holiday visa I could apply for should I be shot down for the IEC one?

Ireland has WHV agreements with Argentina and Hong Kong. I don't know anyone that's ever been though or anything about the rules.

JohnMearsheimer

I forgot about New Zealand as well.

godman

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I forgot about New Zealand as well.

I was looking more along the lines going to Canada.. do they offer any other temp visas like the WHV?

JohnMearsheimer

godman wrote: »

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

I forgot about New Zealand as well.

I was looking more along the lines going to Canada.. do they offer any other temp visas like the WHV?

Not that I know of.

nimar

Hi guys,

I just got rejected for the IEC visa with no reason given! (was accepted by IEC, paid my money, and then rejected by CIC!!). Was in Canada with USIT first for a year and am currently on my first IEC visa (am 4.5 months in). I had applied for a second IEC visa which has now just been rejected.

I can't for the life of me figure out why it could possibly have been rejected except for this 18 month rule. The thing is, I'm out of Ireland just under 17 months and was out of Ireland only 16 months when they first accepted my application (by IEC). I know I'm borderline with the 18 months thing but just wondering if anyone else has been rejected under similar circumstances? My understanding was that the 18 month rule only applied up to the date of your application (ie - out of Ireland no more than 18 months up to time of application), but I'm guessing that whoever processed my application in CIC must have decided that I'm borderline and will be out of Ireland more than 18 months by the time the 2nd visa comes through. This seems ridiculous to me because if I'm not eligible under those circumstances, then IEC should have rejected my application and not taken my money! Apparently I can't get any information about the rejection until after the money has been refunded to me, which can take weeks.

Anyone else have a similar experience or did I just get someone on a bad day processing my application?!?

Cheers.

JohnMearsheimer

Are you allowed to apply for 3 WHVs in a row? Just wondering, I went on the last year of the USIT programme. I spoke about this with a friend who is still in Canada, he did 1 USIT visa and he just started his 1st IEC visa but he was under the impression he could not apply for his 2nd IEC visa. From what he was saying to me, he would have to come home for 18 months to get his 2nd IEC visa. I'm not sure they want people in Canada for 3 years.

DazzlerIE

nimar wrote: »

Hi guys,

I just got rejected for the IEC visa with no reason given! (was accepted by IEC, paid my money, and then rejected by CIC!!). Was in Canada with USIT first for a year and am currently on my first IEC visa (am 4.5 months in). I had applied for a second IEC visa which has now just been rejected.

I can't for the life of me figure out why it could possibly have been rejected except for this 18 month rule. The thing is, I'm out of Ireland just under 17 months and was out of Ireland only 16 months when they first accepted my application (by IEC). I know I'm borderline with the 18 months thing but just wondering if anyone else has been rejected under similar circumstances? My understanding was that the 18 month rule only applied up to the date of your application (ie - out of Ireland no more than 18 months up to time of application), but I'm guessing that whoever processed my application in CIC must have decided that I'm borderline and will be out of Ireland more than 18 months by the time the 2nd visa comes through. This seems ridiculous to me because if I'm not eligible under those circumstances, then IEC should have rejected my application and not taken my money! Apparently I can't get any information about the rejection until after the money has been refunded to me, which can take weeks.

Anyone else have a similar experience or did I just get someone on a bad day processing my application?!?

Cheers.

This is really rather worrying, I'm similarly borderline (15 months out of Ireland, all spent in Canada) so I'm pretty much in the same situation as you

Just got my receipt email yesterday, so should find out soon enough

disaster

token101

nimar wrote: »

Hi guys,

I just got rejected for the IEC visa with no reason given! (was accepted by IEC, paid my money, and then rejected by CIC!!). Was in Canada with USIT first for a year and am currently on my first IEC visa (am 4.5 months in). I had applied for a second IEC visa which has now just been rejected.

I can't for the life of me figure out why it could possibly have been rejected except for this 18 month rule. The thing is, I'm out of Ireland just under 17 months and was out of Ireland only 16 months when they first accepted my application (by IEC). I know I'm borderline with the 18 months thing but just wondering if anyone else has been rejected under similar circumstances? My understanding was that the 18 month rule only applied up to the date of your application (ie - out of Ireland no more than 18 months up to time of application), but I'm guessing that whoever processed my application in CIC must have decided that I'm borderline and will be out of Ireland more than 18 months by the time the 2nd visa comes through. This seems ridiculous to me because if I'm not eligible under those circumstances, then IEC should have rejected my application and not taken my money! Apparently I can't get any information about the rejection until after the money has been refunded to me, which can take weeks.

Anyone else have a similar experience or did I just get someone on a bad day processing my application?!?

Cheers.

But sure the USIT visa is the IEC isn't it? It's the same thing isn't it? So you're on your second one now? And you can only get two.

DazzlerIE

Last year was the first IEC, so it's impossible to be applying for a third right now

nimar

Hi JohnMearsheimer.

My understanding was that the 2 x 1 year IEC visas were open to everyone, regardless of whether you've done a 1 year with USIT in the past or not.....everyone has a clean slate, so-to-speak. However, there is the 18 month rule, so if you're currently out of IRL when applying, and as long as you aren't out of IRL for more than 18 months in the last 3 years, then you're eligible to apply (according to the rules). For me, this was the case (I was out of IRL 16 months at time of application). IEC accepted me as eligible, took my money and my application went on to the final phase with CIC. Then CIC refused the application as not eligible. As mentioned, based on the fact that this is my 3rd time applying, I know that everything in my application was fine, so the only thing I can think of that would make me not eligible is the 18 month rule because I was fairly near the 18 month mark. However, it's very vague with regards to whether the 18 months counts back from the time of application, or from the time when you would receive the visa, or from the time when you would enter the country? That's probably why IEC accepted the application but then CIC rejected it. Apparently I have to now wait for a posted letter from CIC which will confirm the reason for the rejection. Will update this thread and confirm if it is the 18 month rule as I suspect. However, if it is then it's not very clearly stated in the rules and IEC should not have accepted my application to begin with and given me false hope.

Hope this helps.

nimar

@DazzlerIE - good luck with the application...I'd be interested to hear how you get on as you sound to be in a similar situation as me.

@token101 - no the USIT visa is not the same as the IEC visa for some of us. USIT are doing IEC visas now. However, the IEC programme only came out in Jan last year (2011) and gave people under 35 the option to get two 1 year visas regardless of whether you've been to Canada in the past with USIT as a student or temporary worker. If you applied with USIT last year, then you would have received the 1st IEC visa and would get your 2nd IEC visa this year, but I got my USIT visa in 2010, then my 1st IEC visa last year in 2011 and technically should be eligible for my 2nd IEC visa this year (but apparently not now!...am waiting on confirmation as to their reasoning). Hope this helps.

JohnMearsheimer

nimar wrote: »

Hi JohnMearsheimer.

My understanding was that the 2 x 1 year IEC visas were open to everyone, regardless of whether you've done a 1 year with USIT in the past or not.....everyone has a clean slate, so-to-speak. However, there is the 18 month rule, so if you're currently out of IRL when applying, and as long as you aren't out of IRL for more than 18 months in the last 3 years, then you're eligible to apply (according to the rules). For me, this was the case (I was out of IRL 16 months at time of application). IEC accepted me as eligible, took my money and my application went on to the final phase with CIC. Then CIC refused the application as not eligible. As mentioned, based on the fact that this is my 3rd time applying, I know that everything in my application was fine, so the only thing I can think of that would make me not eligible is the 18 month rule because I was fairly near the 18 month mark. However, it's very vague with regards to whether the 18 months counts back from the time of application, or from the time when you would receive the visa, or from the time when you would enter the country? That's probably why IEC accepted the application but then CIC rejected it. Apparently I have to now wait for a posted letter from CIC which will confirm the reason for the rejection. Will update this thread and confirm if it is the 18 month rule as I suspect. However, if it is then it's not very clearly stated in the rules and IEC should not have accepted my application to begin with and given me false hope.

Hope this helps.

Please do, I'd be interested to know if the reason for refusal was applying for 3 visas back to back and not meeting the 18 month residency requirement. It does look from the FAQ section on the IEC website that you can apply for 3 visas if you went on the visa programme before the IEC was introduced (1 USIT and 2 IEC). They should make the situation clearer. Maybe you just can't do all 3 back to back. I hope everything works out for you.

Helix

JohnMearsheimer wrote: »

Are you allowed to apply for 3 WHVs in a row? Just wondering, I went on the last year of the USIT programme. I spoke about this with a friend who is still in Canada, he did 1 USIT visa and he just started his 1st IEC visa but he was under the impression he could not apply for his 2nd IEC visa. From what he was saying to me, he would have to come home for 18 months to get his 2nd IEC visa. I'm not sure they want people in Canada for 3 years.

your friend would only have to go back to ireland for 6 months to be eligible for a second IEC visa, not 18 months

JohnMearsheimer

Helix wrote: »

your friend would only have to go back to ireland for 6 months to be eligible for a second IEC visa, not 18 months

Good to know, we thought it had to a consecutive 18 months. This 18 month rule still catches me but not for as long as I thought

Schmilsson

godman wrote: »

Is this a new rule? I was away in Oz for over 18months in the last 3 years, with my girlfriend. She applied for her visa last year and got it no problem(even though she would have been out of Ireland for over 18months). I just missed the deadline so I have to apply for the 2012 program.

The thing is, the 18 month habitual residence would effectively rule me out for a visa? Is there anyway around this or are they strict with this as the other half has her visa and we're just about to send mine off so we can get out of here.

Hi, I'm in Canada at the moment. I've been here 8 months now. Prior to coming here I spent 16 months traveling, so altogether I've been away from Ireland a total of 24 months in the past 3 years. I'm wondering if you managed to get accepted for your LOI despite not "physically residing" in Ireland for the correct amount of time? Also how did your girlfriend explain the OZ visa in her passport if it showed that she was away from Ireland for a period longer than 18 months? My passport is riddled with visas and stamps that would be difficult to explain away at the immigration desk.
The reason I'm asking is because I'm about to re-apply for a second IEC visa and I'm wondering if the immigration people scrutinize your passport upon arriving in Canada. I can't remember them asking me too many questions at the time although they did notice the stamps and visas. I'm wondering if it would be better to try and get a new passport, apply for the IEC visa and say nothing about the time spent traveling.

Helix

immigration don't check anything like that. they don't care. the rules for the scheme are only for the IEC to be concerned with. if they give you the letter of introduction you're in. immigration won't look at your passport for travel dates and they won't ask you for insurance because they're not conditions of legal entry into canada - they're just conditions for acceptance onto the IEC scheme

retalivity

i got rejected today. 18 month rule

DazzlerIE

retalivity wrote: »

i got rejected today. 18 month rule

were you much over?

retalivity

yeah way over it. 25 months away when i applied, almost 27 now

DazzlerIE

retalivity wrote: »

yeah way over it. 25 months away when i applied, almost 27 now

****,sorry to hear it mate

back-up plan?

retalivity

yup.....but ive only a week left on my first IEC and my lawyer isnt answering me the backstard!

Schmilsson

Has anyone applied for a second IEC visa and lied about their habitual residency on their second application and gotten away with it? I'm curious if they cross check the applications. My first application stated that I had been out of Ireland 16 months and that's gone up to 24 now. Also, is your C.V. the only proof you need? They use the words 'misrepresentation' and 'fraud' on the website and mention a possible 2 year ban and a permanent record of your transgression which might rule someone out for a further visa down the line. Would it be better to tell the truth and hope for the best, or straight up lie and prepare for the worst? Any thoughts would be welcome.

DazzlerIE

TBH, unless I'd been in Canada the whole time, there's no reason why I'd tell them I was over 18 months

hellothere1

retalivity wrote: »

yeah way over it. 25 months away when i applied, almost 27 now

Retalivity, just wondering if you had spent all that time in Canada or were you in another country before yuo came to Canada?

hellothere1

Schmilsson wrote: »

Has anyone applied for a second IEC visa and lied about their habitual residency on their second application and gotten away with it? I'm curious if they cross check the applications. My first application stated that I had been out of Ireland 16 months and that's gone up to 24 now. Also, is your C.V. the only proof you need? They use the words 'misrepresentation' and 'fraud' on the website and mention a possible 2 year ban and a permanent record of your transgression which might rule someone out for a further visa down the line. Would it be better to tell the truth and hope for the best, or straight up lie and prepare for the worst? Any thoughts would be welcome.

They keep all applications, have you been in Canada all that time or another country?
I don't know for sure, but I did have a friend who was trying the LMO option for months and she reckoned they were cross-checking her previous applications (same office that deals with them).

retalivity

hellothere1 wrote: »

Retalivity, just wondering if you had spent all that time in Canada or were you in another country before yuo came to Canada?

no....12 months in korea, 12-13 months in canada

FreeAnd..

as bad as the 18th rule thing is - I'm so glad they only brought it in this year...I was out of Ireland - temporarily for almost 36 Months of the 3 years previous...so still thankful that I'm here now...even if I cant get another year right off the bat...

another_one

hey guys I have a question for ye any advice would be appreciated!!

I have been out of the country for the past 12 months (Feb 2011 to Feb 2012) on the J1 USA 12 months work and travel.

If I get the Canada 1 year visa I will be out of the country for another 12 months bringing my total amount of months out of the country in the last 3 years to 24.

Does this mean that I would be unable to get a 2nd year visa when I am over in Canada? If so is there any way around this??

Thanks

JohnMearsheimer

another_one wrote: »

hey guys I have a question for ye any advice would be appreciated!!

I have been out of the country for the past 12 months (Feb 2011 to Feb 2012) on the J1 USA 12 months work and travel.

If I get the Canada 1 year visa I will be out of the country for another 12 months bringing my total amount of months out of the country in the last 3 years to 24.

Does this mean that I would be unable to get a 2nd year visa when I am over in Canada? If so is there any way around this??

Thanks

Ya, you would only qualify for one at the moment. It doesn't seem that you need to live in Ireland for 18 consecutive months so if you come home for 7/8 months before you go to Canada it should bring you down to 16/17 months out of Ireland in the last 3 years by the time you apply for your second visa....this is all in theory though.

Schmilsson

hellothere1 wrote: »

They keep all applications, have you been in Canada all that time or another country?
I don't know for sure, but I did have a friend who was trying the LMO option for months and she reckoned they were cross-checking her previous applications (same office that deals with them).

No, I've been in Canada less than a year. I was traveling in different countries before that. Last year I understood the rule to mean that you had to be a resident of Ireland for the past 3 years, or in other words that you were ineligible if you were a resident of another country (Oz, USA, Canada etc.) for longer than eighteen months. Since I wasn't a resident of another country, and never stayed more than a little while anywhere, I thought I'd be okay. But, no.

another_one

So does all this mean if you are over living in Canada on your first year visa they will deny you your second visa because living in Canada itself has taken you over the 18 months limit?

It seems very unfair doesent it? Like I can understand that they want to stop globetrotters from applying but if you are already in Canada after being allowed in surely the 18 months rule should cease to exist?

JohnMearsheimer

another_one wrote: »

So does all this mean if you are over living in Canada on your first year visa they will deny you your second visa because living in Canada itself has taken you over the 18 months limit?

It seems very unfair doesent it? Like I can understand that they want to stop globetrotters from applying but if you are already in Canada after being allowed in surely the 18 months rule should cease to exist?

Yep, they include time spent in Canada. It catches everyone that has spent time outside Ireland in the last 3 years. It's annoying, I spent 2 years in the UK, mostly as a student, before I went to Canada and it wasn't a problem. Now the residency rule is stopping me from applying to go back. I don't become eligible to apply again for another 6 months.

Schmilsson

another_one wrote: »

So does all this mean if you are over living in Canada on your first year visa they will deny you your second visa because living in Canada itself has taken you over the 18 months limit?

It seems very unfair doesent it? Like I can understand that they want to stop globetrotters from applying but if you are already in Canada after being allowed in surely the 18 months rule should cease to exist?

The IEC visa only allows you to stay for 12 months before you have to reapply for a second year or transfer to a different type of visa. You cannot be over the 18 month limit on your first IEC visa unless you have spent a further 6 months + outside Ireland before coming to Canada (assuming you spend the full 12 months in Canada once you arrive). I can't understand why they don't want globetrotters. It used not matter to them as far as I know. As long as you are an Irish citizen and have no ongoing claims to residency or citizenship in another country that would complicate your application, then it seems daft to me that you could have spent the last 20 - 30 years living in Ireland but because you left the country for 18 months you no longer qualify!

another_one

Absolutely its daft.

The thing that is worrying me is possible trouble getting my second year visa once I am over there after going to all the trouble of getting set up with a job and everything.

That happened me in the USA and I certainly dont want it to happen again.

Does anyone know how I could get official clarification on this?

I am sure other people must be in the same boat as me considering we all have to move around the world nowadays to find work!!?

retalivity

another_one wrote: »

So does all this mean if you are over living in Canada on your first year visa they will deny you your second visa because living in Canada itself has taken you over the 18 months limit?

This is what happened to me. Pretty sh1tty.

another_one

Can you apply again once you arrive over?

Or can you only apply once every year?

retalivity

you have to wait until the 2013 program opens, which wont be until next year

speef

I'm a little confused about the 18 month rule. The only thing that I can see on the website (http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/ireland-irlande/experience_canada_experience/working_holiday-vacances_travail.aspx?view=d) is that you have to:

2.be a citizen of Ireland and be able to demonstrate habitual residency (physically living) in Ireland for a minimum of three years directly prior to your application to the IEC;

which doesn't even make sense because you are allowed to apply while you are on your first IEC as long as you leave the country and re-enter to activate it.

Can someone show me where the 18 month rule is? I'm about to send off my application and now I realise I may not be eligible because:

July 2009 - Dec 2010 - In Canada on a working holiday abroad visa. (extended to September while my employer applied for an LMO and then changed to a visitor visa until I went home for Christmas).

Feb 2010 - May 2010 - In Canada on a visitors visa while my IEC application was being processed so technically resident in Ireland but I was out of the country on holiday.

June 2010 - Present - In Canada on my first IEC visa and about to apply for a second.

That means in the past three years I've only been in Ireland for 9 months. Do I have any chance?

obeara

speef wrote: »

That means in the past three years I've only been in Ireland for 9 months. Do I have any chance?

I doubt it. In the FAQ:

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/ireland-irlande/experience_canada_experience/faq.aspx?view=d#Residency

speef

Thanks obeara, I just found that..

retalivity wrote: »

This is what happened to me. Pretty sh1tty.

Retalivity, did they just send you back your application saying you weren't eligible or did you get through the payment section and everything and then it was denied?

retalivity

No i never got to the payment section.
I got the acknowledgement email, then was waiting nearly 3 weeks for the payment email before i got the rejection email. They sent all my documents back to my address in ireland then.

speef

Thanks for the heads up. I'm glad I checked the site! I've all the forms filled out already so I'll send it off anyway and who knows, maybe I'll get someone with no math skills...