New Subjects

Bazinga_N

The other day in English our teacher wanted us to have a creative discussion.. in which it lead to Education.. We really spoke about new subjects that should be taught and others that should be changed.. It got me wondering about this.. What do ye think? Heres the subjects that were thought of in class

Media Studies
ICT
Astrology
Earth Science
Psychology
Better Art Course
Law
Politics & Society - CSPE that is not viewed as a doss! And in LC.
Sociology
Photography

Any Other Ideas?

Geo10

Geology
Ancient History
Philosophy

Mr. Rager

Programming.

MathsManiac

Bazinga_N wrote: »

...
Astrology
...

You've got to be kidding. Your class really thinks you should be spending your school time on your horoscopes?

Bazinga_N

Geo10 wrote: »

Ancient History

I reckon myself that the LC History course should change... And have many different aspects..

Bazinga_N

MathsManiac wrote: »

You've got to be kidding. Your class really thinks you should be spending your school time on your horoscopes?

:O :O I meant Astronomy! :P Oh the madness of a typo! :L

Superbus

Chinese.

bain_triail_as

Drama, Acting, Dance and Performance Studies

J_E

I always felt the music course should have more coverage of jazz and contemporary music. It's awfully weighted on Irish music.

Bazinga_N

Superbus wrote: »

Chinese.

Oh Good One! I feel the languages for LC could be greatly improved.

Bazinga_N

Or Maybe a Theatre Subject that contains all those aspects!

silversky

Bazinga_N wrote: »

The other day in English our teacher wanted us to have a creative discussion.. in which it lead to Education.. We really spoke about new subjects that should be taught and others that should be changed.. It got me wondering about this.. What do ye think? Heres the subjects that were thought of in class

Media Studies
ICT
Astrology
Earth Science
Psychology
Better Art Course
Law
Politics & Society - CSPE that is not viewed as a doss! And in LC.
Sociology
Photography

Any Other Ideas?

Definitely. I would love to have creative writing and film studies too. You'd have more of an interest in the subject and it would give you a better idea of what you want to do in college.

spurious

A great deal of what has been described is already available in the LCA. If people were less resistant to changes in assessment methods, it could be in the Established LC too.

Neeson

Sociology?

Once you start learning that nonsense you'll wonder why you ever wished you'd started.

sganyfx

Further Maths, for those who find the maths taught in 5th and 6th year in this country a joke compared to that of others.

Jolly Red Giant

The 'Politics and Society' Syllabus has already been drafted and is ready to be added to the LC - the government have simply not made the decision to include it. Research has shown that it would be very popular with students.

As regards Philosophy and Sociology - they actually form part of the 'Politics and Society' Syllabus.

spurious

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The 'Politics and Society' Syllabus has already been drafted and is ready to be added to the LC - the government have simply not made the decision to include it. Research has shown that it would be very popular with students.

As regards Philosophy and Sociology - they actually form part of the 'Politics and Society' Syllabus.

Here's some information on it.
Other proposed (and presumably now shelved) subjects were Enterprise and Psychology.


As someone who has been involved in syllabus review over the years, it is really sickening that the DES just sweep all the (free) extra work of a large number of committees away for penny-pinching cuts to make sure they can pay their 'special advisors'.

PictureFrame

I always thought a Law & Society based Subject would be fantastic in the Leaving.

Bazinga_N

PictureFrame wrote: »

I always thought a Law & Society based Subject would be fantastic in the Leaving.

Agreed!!

spurious wrote: »

Other proposed (and presumably now shelved) subjects were Enterprise and Psychology.

Enterprise and Psychology would be fantastic subjects!! Politics and Society would be a great subject for the LC too!

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

As regards Philosophy and Sociology - they actually form part of the 'Politics and Society' Syllabus.

Oh really? I've heard many a time that Sociology is very popular in the UK.

Bazinga_N

silversky wrote: »

Definitely. I would love to have creative writing and film studies too. You'd have more of an interest in the subject and it would give you a better idea of what you want to do in college.

Me too.. I think the English course should really get a reform.. I love English but feel the course sometimes buts a cap on what you could do with it!

Film studies would be brilliant. Only trouble is alot of students would take it thinking they could just watch movies!

spurious wrote: »

A great deal of what has been described is already available in the LCA. If people were less resistant to changes in assessment methods, it could be in the Established LC too.

Your dead right, the assessment methods in the LC and JC are a bit of a joke. More subjects should really have project exams, or something were students could keep a portfolio of work throughout course and then get judged at the end of course!

Neeson wrote: »

Sociology? Once you start learning that nonsense you'll wonder why you ever wished you'd started.

I've heard Sociology is meant to be very popular in the UK?

sganyfx wrote: »

Further Maths, for those who find the maths taught in 5th and 6th year in this country a joke compared to that of others.

Would that be like Applied Maths or what? Is it like more advanced maths or practical maths? Explain please

plein de force

Chinese/Portuguese being added

spurious

plein de force wrote: »

Chinese/Portuguese being added

Portuguese has been available a few years now.

plein de force

spurious wrote: »

Portuguese has been available a few years now.

but isn't it just for native speakers like with some of the eastern european languages. if it's available in the way french/german is then that's great.

spurious

plein de force wrote: »

but isn't it just for native speakers like with some of the eastern european languages. if it's available in the way french/german is then that's great.

It's supposed to be, but nowhere do they ask you are you a native speaker.

Remember the guy last year who sat some crazy number of LC subjects to raise money for the school he runs? He sat a number of the non-curricular languages.

randylonghorn

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The 'Politics and Society' Syllabus has already been drafted and is ready to be added to the LC - the government have simply not made the decision to include it. Research has shown that it would be very popular with students.

I suspect, given the current cutbacks in teacher allocation etc., that it will be long-fingered for a few years at least.

A real shame imho; not alone would it be an excellent foundation for those going into the social sciences generally at third level, and politics, sociology and law in particular, but we might get young people coming out of school with some sense of how politics and political institutions work (or don't, a lot of the time!).

On second thoughts, maybe that's another reason why the political will to implement it seems to be lacking! :pac:

plein de force

spurious wrote: »

It's supposed to be, but nowhere do they ask you are you a native speaker.

Remember the guy last year who sat some crazy number of LC subjects to raise money for the school he runs? He sat a number of the non-curricular languages.

yes, true, but i'd like to see it being taught as a language in schools

finality

plein de force wrote: »

yes, true, but i'd like to see it being taught as a language in schools

I don't know would it really be viable. Spanish used to be available in my school but it was cut a few years ago because there wasn't enough interest in it. I think schools offer what are seen as the most useful languages, as French and German are quite widely spoken/France and Germany are some of the 'larger' countries in Europe.

During the summer I was thinking about taking Dutch for the LC. I sort of wish I had, you can pretty much read it if you speak English and German.

Isn't sociology already part of home ec? And there's a lot of philosophy in religion? I would definitely like to see psychology as subject.

spurious

I never understood how Spanish wasn't more popular considering it is the first language of many countries in the world and effectively of large parts of the US too.

MegGustaa

spurious wrote: »

I never understood how Spanish wasn't more popular considering it is the first language of many countries in the world and effectively of large parts of the US too.

You have to have the teachers and resources in the first place for a language to be popular - a lot of schools don't offer it. Some only offer French! I could be wrong, but apparently some time (way back) the French government invested in French language education in Ireland, which is why there's a disproportionately large emphasis on French compared to Spanish and German. More people studying a language in secondary schools means more people who'll go on to teach it, so it becomes a cycle. I reckon Spanish will continue to grow, though, as more and more students who got to study it at second level trickle into university and into modern language teaching.

rainbowtrout

Geo10 wrote: »

Geology
Ancient History
Philosophy

The syllabus that existed before the current one (about 6 or 7 years ago) had this option. It was Ancient History or Modern History.

Now it's Early Modern (1400s - 1800s) or Late Modern (1800s - present). Pity really.

MegGustaa

sganyfx wrote: »

Further Maths, for those who find the maths taught in 5th and 6th year in this country a joke compared to that of others.

I think Maths should be restructured altogether, to recognise the very varied Mathematical abilities that exist among students; three levels aren't enough. The gap between OL and HL in the Leaving is huge; I know many girls in my class who aren't doing so well in HL Maths, but don't want to drop because the standard is much lower in the OL classes, they've covered a lot of what's on the OL LC course already (in the Junior Cert!) and would lose out big time on points. There should be more tiers to Maths; they could make the top tier more challenging than it is now ("Further Maths?"), a middle tier that's not as hard as the present HL Maths (but still a high standard, and more points than OL), followed by a lower tier that's roughly what we call OL, and then Foundation.

There are some students who struggle with Ordinary Level, but then again there are plenty of students (like myself) who love Maths, do really well in Higher Level and wish that Maths could be even more challenging. I do Applied Maths, and it's very different (in a good way) to "regular Maths", but I'd also love to see more advanced Calculus, Trigonometry, Algebra etc available to Leaving Cert students too.

SureYWouldntYa

MegGustaa wrote: »

I think Maths should be restructured altogether, to recognise the very varied Mathematical abilities that exist among students; three levels aren't enough. The gap between OL and HL in the Leaving is huge; I know many girls in my class who aren't doing so well in HL Maths, but don't want to drop because the standard is much lower in the OL classes, they've covered a lot of what's on the OL LC course already (in the Junior Cert!) and would lose out big time on points. There should be more tiers to Maths; they could make the top tier more challenging than it is now ("Further Maths?"), a middle tier that's not as hard as the present HL Maths (but still a high standard, and more points than OL), followed by a lower tier that's roughly what we call OL, and then Foundation.

There are some students who struggle with Ordinary Level, but then again there are plenty of students (like myself) who love Maths, do really well in Higher Level and wish that Maths could be even more challenging. I do Applied Maths, and it's very different (in a good way) to "regular Maths", but I'd also love to see more advanced Calculus, Trigonometry, Algebra etc available to Leaving Cert students too.

Its called HIGHER LEVEL for a reason, if ya cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen

randylonghorn

spurious wrote: »

I never understood how Spanish wasn't more popular considering it is the first language of many countries in the world and effectively of large parts of the US too.

And a much easier language to learn imho ... closer in structure and grammar to English, and oh lord so much easier to pronounce without wearing undersized underwear ... >_>

finality

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Its called HIGHER LEVEL for a reason, if ya cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen

They were suggesting a level higher than the current higher level...what's your point?

MegGustaa

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Its called HIGHER LEVEL for a reason, if ya cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen

You're missing the point. Not everyone who 'can't handle the heat' of HL is suited to OL. Having no middle-ground means we're restricting those who can't keep up with HL to a much easier course, when they could be learning harder stuff than OL. We're trying to improve numeracy in this country, aren't we?

hattoncracker

Drivers Education!

randylonghorn

hattoncracker wrote: »

Drivers Education!

I would definitely agree, tho' it shouldn't be part of the points system.

hattoncracker

randylonghorn wrote: »

hattoncracker wrote: »

Drivers Education!

I would definitely agree, tho' it shouldn't be part of the points system.

Yeah I agree but it should be something thats taught in school.. Some schools in the states do it!


Preparing for theory test, drink driving education, shown how to change a tyre, dip oil, what to look at when buying one, etc. would be invaluable.

finality

We had a module on driving theory in transition year, and a talk on drink driving. I think TY is a better time for that than while preparing for the leaving cert.

spurious

Our school offered Driver Education a couple of years ago to the LCA class, for their Personal Achievement task.

They all got to pass their Theory Test and got their Learner Permits and the school part funded a day in one of those simulators. It was good fun. I had a go in it myself.

Bazinga_N

MegGustaa wrote: »

I think Maths should be restructured altogether, to recognise the very varied Mathematical abilities that exist among students; three levels aren't enough. The gap between OL and HL in the Leaving is huge; I know many girls in my class who aren't doing so well in HL Maths, but don't want to drop because the standard is much lower in the OL classes, they've covered a lot of what's on the OL LC course already (in the Junior Cert!) and would lose out big time on points. There should be more tiers to Maths; they could make the top tier more challenging than it is now ("Further Maths?"), a middle tier that's not as hard as the present HL Maths (but still a high standard, and more points than OL), followed by a lower tier that's roughly what we call OL, and then Foundation.

There are some students who struggle with Ordinary Level, but then again there are plenty of students (like myself) who love Maths, do really well in Higher Level and wish that Maths could be even more challenging. I do Applied Maths, and it's very different (in a good way) to "regular Maths", but I'd also love to see more advanced Calculus, Trigonometry, Algebra etc available to Leaving Cert students too.

Agreed!! It's shocking the difference between the levels!! The should definitely be more than three levels.. also as you pointed out its disgraceful that Junior Cert Maths is being taught to LC students!! Especially people in OL LC Maths who were in HL JC Maths!! :O Something definitely should be done, and tbh in my opinion, Project Maths was a big waste of time and money!

randylonghorn wrote: »

And a much easier language to learn imho ... closer in structure and grammar to English, and oh lord so much easier to pronounce without wearing undersized underwear ... >_>

Stop.. Italian and Spanish should be on the same level as French and German eyes.. Another thing about languages in my school anyways, is that you can only take one.. I find this quite annoying.. I would have loved to take another language.. But I was forced to do one Or even worse imo is that they allow students to take ART INSTEAD OF a THIRD LANGUAGE!!! I find this shocking!! All students should have the ability to speak a third language!! Its an extremely useful life skill!! :mad: I am so proud to be able to say i can speak fleunt English & Irish and good French and Spanish!!

hattoncracker wrote: »

Drivers Education!

Our school does Drivers Ed with the TYs.. They get to do theory and stimulator's!

randylonghorn

Bazinga_N wrote: »

Stop.. Italian and Spanish should be on the same level as French and German eyes..

Eh?

Bazinga_N

randylonghorn wrote: »

Eh?

Oppss I meant in my eyes.. All languages should be on the same levels!

randylonghorn

Be that as it may, some are easier to learn than others, though ofc which languages people find easier is pretty much dependent on what their first language is.

spurious

Bazinga_N wrote: »

Oppss I meant in my eyes.. All languages should be on the same levels!

They are on the same level - at least French, German, Italian and Spanish are for Leaving Cert.. What makes them different is the ease with which a person with English as a first language can learn them. In the old days where people did Latin this wasn't really a problem as Latin makes almost all European languages easier to learn.

For Leaving Cert., Russian and Japanese are to a lower standard than French/German/Spanish/Italian as you are expected to only have done 2 or 3 years of the former pair, while 5 or maybe even 6 years of the latter group.

The non-curricular Latvian, Lithuianian, Polish, Romanian, Bulgarian etc., expect native speaker standard and are usually taken by native speakers.

That said, I was bored one day supervising an Italian JC Mock and took the exam myself, managing to get an honour while never having had a class of Italian. I just used cop on and my 30 year old knowledge of Inter. Cert. French.

ride-the-spiral

Definitely think that programming or computer science should be included as an LC subject. I also think that there should be a change in a lot of subjects to incorporate the use of computers, for instance in the sciences and business world computers are incredibly useful but there's been no real drive to include them in the subjects in any meaningful way.

And more of me being a pedant then anything, but I'd prefer if Applied Maths was called Mechanics or something. :pac:

spurious

ride-the-spiral wrote: »

Definitely think that programming or computer science should be included as an LC subject. I also think that there should be a change in a lot of subjects to incorporate the use of computers, for instance in the sciences and business world computers are incredibly useful but there's been no real drive to include them in the subjects in any meaningful way.

And more of me being a pedant then anything, but I'd prefer if Applied Maths was called Mechanics or something. :pac:

The new 'rebalanced' JC syllabi (ready for a number of years but not implemented yet) almost all incorporate IT, but specifying it in a syllabus means the Dept. have to make sure that every school is equipped to at least a basic standard and that costs money, so it will be a non-starter for a few years yet, I'd say.

Namlub

Bazinga_N wrote: »

Agreed!! It's shocking the difference between the levels!! The should definitely be more than three levels.. also as you pointed out its disgraceful that Junior Cert Maths is being taught to LC students!! Especially people in OL LC Maths who were in HL JC Maths!! :O Something definitely should be done, and tbh in my opinion, Project Maths was a big waste of time and money!

It isn't

MegGustaa

Namlub wrote: »

Bazinga_N wrote: »

Agreed!! It's shocking the difference between the levels!! The should definitely be more than three levels.. also as you pointed out its disgraceful that Junior Cert Maths is being taught to LC students!! Especially people in OL LC Maths who were in HL JC Maths!! :O Something definitely should be done, and tbh in my opinion, Project Maths was a big waste of time and money!

It isn't

Yeah it is. Material covered in Junior Cert Higher Level is covered at Leaving Cert Ordinary Level!

Namlub

Yeah I know, but there are some people who think think that there's no difference between HL maths for Junior Cert and OL maths for Leaving Cert and I though that was what the OP was trying to say

Togepi

The difference between higher and ordinary level Maths is shocking (I've done both courses and the difference is huge!).

If it's the same for every subject then they really need to bring in a third level. They should have one less challenging than higher and one that's more challenging than higher, and then have ordinary as the third level.

Namlub wrote: »

Yeah I know, but there are some people who think think that there's no difference between HL maths for Junior Cert and OL maths for Leaving Cert and I though that was what the OP was trying to say

The only difference is complex numbers and differentiation I think. Apart from that it's easier. (For the old Paper 1 and 2 anyway.)