Leap Card - On-line top-up issues

mynameissarah

Hi guys,

Sorry, I am aware that there is a Leap Card thread but my question's getting a little lost in it so I really need to put it here.

Has anyone experienced severe delays when topping up their leap card online? I know of someone having to wait almost 6 days for €50 top up to come through and I'm just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same issue?

Thanks.

Victor

It takes up to 48 hours for it to get to the pick-up point (this time will reduce).

Make sure you get the cashier to press the "Check balance" button.

ncan

I topped up Sunday and still hasn't come through.
Apparently irish rail having probs with their systems.
If you ask me the whole system is flawed. The credit should go through straight away not in 48hrs time (what use is that?) and in my case still no sign over 5 days later. It has meant buying separate return tics at extra expense.
Also, because I won't now be able to collect the top up within 7 days it will be refunded to my bank account and I'll have to start again. And if I top up today there's no guarantee I'll have credit when I next need to (Monday). That's assuming my purchase is refunded due to the technical issues.
How the hell Leap explain how the system works (or is supposed to work) is beyond me...
And they spent (apparently) around €50m developing this useless system - jollies to faraway places (aka fact finding missions) to see how to do it. Well that was a complete waste of money.

n97 mini

I've heard the reason why it takes so long is that the systems are not linked, and the process is being done manually.

A Leap staff member gets print-outs from the Leap card system with numbers and amounts to top up by, and then sends the print-outs via An Post to IE and Luas staff so that they can enter them into their system manually.

ncan

You just couldn't make it up!

Dravokivich

ncan wrote: »

You just couldn't make it up!

He did, that's sarcasm.

goingnowhere

n97 mini wrote: »

I've heard the reason why it takes so long is that the systems are not linked, and the process is being done manually.

A Leap staff member gets print-outs from the Leap card system with numbers and amounts to top up by, and then sends the print-outs via An Post to IE and Luas staff so that they can enter them into their system manually.

Given Irish Rail use a website provided by LEAP to handle refunds on Irish Rail Leap journeys, this is bull.

I've had top ups go through in under 24 hours

n97 mini

goingnowhere wrote: »

Given Irish Rail use a website provided by LEAP to handle refunds on Irish Rail Leap journeys, this is bull.

I've had top ups go through in under 24 hours

Could they have used a courier?

Why don't top-ups would go through in a matter of seconds if systems are linked? "Under 24 hours" is laughable.

Victor

ncan wrote: »

Apparently irish rail having probs with their systems.

What have you heard?

The credit should go through straight away not in 48hrs time (what use is that?)

Like banking, a batch process is being used. A cheque can take 5 days to clear in a bank.

in my case still no sign over 5 days later.

Where and how have you tried to collect it? As you go through the ticket barriers, it should be added.

jollies to faraway places (aka fact finding missions) to see how to do it. Well that was a complete waste of money.

In the context of things, an irrelevant amount fo money.

Technocentral

Just topped up online for the first time this morning (for LUAS), anyone know if it will be available in the next hour or so or is it still at least 24 hours?
Also does it show up when you check your online account when it has been applied?

Jehuty42

n97 mini wrote: »

I've heard the reason why it takes so long is that the systems are not linked, and the process is being done manually.

Where did you hear that?

wile1000

Technocentral wrote: »

Also does it show up when you check your online account when it has been applied?

Yes, though again it might take a day or two to show up on the history once collected.

Re other experiences, I topped up by a fiver last week and it went through after a day or so. What happened to me however was a change of plans - I had some Luas trips to do before reaching my 'nominated pickup point' of a DART gate so I topped up with cash at a Luas no problem, travelled on that, and when I next used the DART my online fiver was there waiting for me.

In short, I don't like nominating my collection point as I take Luas / Dart / cycle to work all rather randomly, and a little hard to judge if it takes up to 48 hours to process. I hope that requirement disappears soon. But I do like having fewer prepaid cards in my pocket (was DB/Luas/Dart/Dublin bikes... now down to just Leap/Dublin bikes! :cool: )

n97 mini

Victor wrote: »

A cheque can take 5 days to clear in a bank.

That's completely different. For starters the funds are removed from the account the instant the cheque is cashed. While the money is "in limbo" they use it for all sorts of investments etc. It's liquid cash to the bank.

This is the way it has always been. It takes 5 days because the bank wants to use it for those 5 days.

Keith186

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread.

I went to top up my leap card online for the first time today (rarely use it) and I've discovered that I have 'to collect' my top up at a Luas line or in a shop.

I don't know what way they designed the system but it seems like a crock of **** to me if you can't top it up online without having to go the extra mile so to speak!

coylemj

Keith186 wrote: »

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread.

I went to top up my leap card online for the first time today (rarely use it) and I've discovered that I have 'to collect' my top up at a Luas line or in a shop.

I don't know what way they designed the system but it seems like a crock of **** to me if you can't top it up online without having to go the extra mile so to speak!

The credit needs to be recorded on the card because the likes of Dublin Bus readers have no online (instant) access to the centralised database, hence you need to physically visit a machine to get the credit transferred onto the card.

Maybe someone can answer this one which you didn't mention - can you pickup new credit purchased online for a Leap card from a ticket machine in a Dart station yet - either the topup cash/CC machines or the readers at the barriers?

Dravokivich

Keith186 wrote: »

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread.

I went to top up my leap card online for the first time today (rarely use it) and I've discovered that I have 'to collect' my top up at a Luas line or in a shop.

I don't know what way they designed the system but it seems like a crock of **** to me if you can't top it up online without having to go the extra mile so to speak!

The card needs to touch on in the system somewhere to receive the credit update. There's no other way for it to work as the cards themselves have no way to connect online.

goingnowhere

Dravokivich wrote: »

The card needs to touch on in the system somewhere to receive the credit update. There's no other way for it to work as the cards themselves have no way to connect online.

The point is the readers on the bus, luas and train are not actually online, since its technically not possible to process the transaction online fast enough, so everything is done offline

Just think about how long a credit card authorization takes in a shop or online, its several seconds, thats not going to work in mass transit system.

Every system worldwide has the same restriction, whats different is in Dublin the bus is the primary transit system, where elsewhere it would be a rail based system

AlekSmart

goingnowhere wrote: »

Every system worldwide has the same restriction, whats different is in Dublin the bus is the primary transit system, where elsewhere it would be a rail based system

BINGO !!.....Well said goingnowhere.

So with c.€40 Million and 10 years invested,are we to blithely accept that the RPA/NTA and more particularly the Integrated Ticketing Implimentation Group were somehow unaware of (A) The significance of the Bus in Dublin's Public Transport setup and (B) How the current Fare Stage system actually operated.

Surely to God with so many of the Great and Good in Irish Administration gathered together on this single programme they could have managed to roll out a far higher degree of simple functionality from day 1 for the largest grouping of customers.....the REAL question is WHAT HAPPENED ?

wayne040576

My Annual bus ticket is going to run out next week. Rather than get a new one I decided to try a leap card. Mainly because I don't use the bus as much so the annual pass was costing me more.

My question is, have the retailers pretty much figured out how to do the top ups easily enough? If I purchase my credit online and then decide to go to the local spar a couple of days later should they at this stage know how to get the credit for me or will they look at me like I have two heads when I show them the card?

Or easier still, can I just find and use these machines myself in the shop? The device on the payzone website looks like a credit card reader so I'm thinking no.

goingnowhere

AlekSmart wrote: »

Surely to God with so many of the Great and Good in Irish Administration gathered together on this single programme they could have managed to roll out a far higher degree of simple functionality from day 1 for the largest grouping of customers.....the REAL question is WHAT HAPPENED ?

Dublin Bus want to continue to live as if they are still the old DUTC, the Leap technology is fine, its that Dublin Bus refuse to move to a sensible fare structure.


Leap can and does do (for the special few on the inside) weekly/monthly/annual, plus single/7 day one/multi operator capping and auto top up, the hold ups are not technical but cultural and a lack of anyone in charge to push through the changes

foggy_lad

wayne040576 wrote: »

My Annual bus ticket is going to run out next week. Rather than get a new one I decided to try a leap card. Mainly because I don't use the bus as much so the annual pass was costing me more.

My question is, have the retailers pretty much figured out how to do the top ups easily enough? If I purchase my credit online and then decide to go to the local spar a couple of days later should they at this stage know how to get the credit for me or will they look at me like I have two heads when I show them the card?

Or easier still, can I just find and use these machines myself in the shop? The device on the payzone website looks like a credit card reader so I'm thinking no.

If you use buses enough to warrant buying an annual ticket it will be a lot more expensive using the leap card as it does not offer anything like the potential savings of an annual ticket.

wayne040576

foggy_lad wrote: »

If you use buses enough to warrant buying an annual ticket it will be a lot more expensive using the leap card as it does not offer anything like the potential savings of an annual ticket.

I know, I've pretty much cut down on my bus use these days and am walking a lot more instead so the annual pass was costing me money.

coylemj

wayne040576 wrote: »

My question is, have the retailers pretty much figured out how to do the top ups easily enough? If I purchase my credit online and then decide to go to the local spar a couple of days later should they at this stage know how to get the credit for me or will they look at me like I have two heads when I show them the card?

All depends on staff training. You'd normally need to ask a relatively experienced member of staff rather than some teenager who mightn't have a clue how to operate the machine.

You just ask them for a balance check, do not mention anything about picking up credit or they will get seriously confused. As part of the process of checking the balance, the Payzone system will put the new credit on the card.

wayne040576 wrote: »

Or easier still, can I just find and use these machines myself in the shop? The device on the payzone website looks like a credit card reader so I'm thinking no.

Not a chance. The machines are all behind the counter.

wayne040576

coylemj wrote: »

All depends on staff training. You'd normally need to ask a relatively experienced member of staff rather than some teenager who mightn't have a clue how to operate the machine.

You just ask them for a balance check, do not mention anything about picking up credit or they will get seriously confused.



Not a chance. The machines are all behind the counter.

Thanks, was pretty much what I was thinking.

LeinsterDub

Are there any plans for some of the busier bus stop to have top up machines ?

Carawaystick

wayne040576 wrote: »

My Annual bus ticket is going to run out next week. Rather than get a new one I decided to try a leap card. Mainly because I don't use the bus as much so the annual pass was costing me more.
.

You would probably be better off getting a transfer90 or a 30 day rambler bus ticket, unless you only take journeys costing < EUR2.15 on the bus.

wayne040576

Carawaystick wrote: »

You would probably be better off getting a transfer90 or a 30 day rambler bus ticket, unless you only take journeys costing < EUR2.15 on the bus.

I think it's €1.70 on the leapcard. I'm only going from Kimmage to Westmoreland street at the most.

AlekSmart

goingnowhere wrote: »

Dublin Bus want to continue to live as if they are still the old DUTC, the Leap technology is fine, its that Dublin Bus refuse to move to a sensible fare structure.

Leap can and does do (for the special few on the inside) weekly/monthly/annual, plus single/7 day one/multi operator capping and auto top up, the hold ups are not technical but cultural and a lack of anyone in charge to push through the changes

True only up to a point.

Dublin Bus's CASH fare structure,is strictly monitored and controlled by our betters in central Government.

Sadly,"moving to a sensible fare structure" will most certainly involve rationalization of the current system.

Whilst I,as a driver,abhor the notion of pretending to operate a fare-stage structure which most staff and customers have only the barest grasp of,I also note that a baseline fare of €1.40 appeals to a HUGE number of customers.

If we look at other European Capital City models,it will be rare to find any similar fare available,with most Cities essentially sitting between a FLAT Fare of €1.80 to €2.70.

The howls of protest which any Dublin Bus attempt to adjust it's base cash Fare will be deafening.

This approach would instantly reduce Dublin Bus Farebox income by a substantial amount,with NO Centrally funded support to compensate.

(It should be noted that the subvention of Public Transport revenue streams has been a basic principle of European Capital City transport systems for almost a century)

What I DO find unacceptable is how the various responsible Authorities,and there are many of them,alowed the opportunity to TOTALLY rework the ENTIRE Dublin Public Transport Fare-Structure which was there for the taking with the ITS project.

Item 1 on the ITIG agenda,12 years ago, SHOULD have been a basic fare structure which could be applied across the board.

It was'nt,and the mess we now see is totally due to this lack of vision.

To talk,at this juncture,of "The Special Few Inside" in relation to Leapcard features just about sums up the entirety of the project.

Remember the Integrated Ticketing Implimentation Group was/is a high level body with very real clout and carrying the FULL backing of the Governments of the day,which makes the current pace of progress all the more galling to endure.

Far from decrying a supposed Dublin Bus affinity for the ways of the DUTC,we perhaps,should be hoping the Company will adopt a stronger DUTC like approach in order to force the Leapcard pace a bit

bk

As you say Alek, a flat fare is politically unacceptable.

However I think the best solution is a high flat cash fare + leap with tag-on and tag-off and per km charging (like in Amsterdam).

Of course this should have been implemented day one with the introduction of leap. Instead now it will be much harder and more confusing to implement.

devnull

AlekSmart wrote: »

This approach would instantly reduce Dublin Bus Farebox income by a substantial amount,with NO Centrally funded support to compensate.

Not necessarily - flat fares mean the days of paying a short trip fare for a long trip would be over, immediately reducing most fare evasion which would actually offset some of revenue lost by rounding some fares down.

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

Not necessarily - flat fares mean the days of paying a short trip fare for a long trip would be over, immediately reducing most fare evasion which would actually offset some of revenue lost by rounding some fares down.

But,but,butter.....It would appear that the "statistics" which are shrouded in mysterious secrecy,indicate such carry on is at a figure of less that 2%.......however such statistics tend to be pooh-pooh'd wherever groups of Busdrivers gather....;)

I suspect that the great n good who sit atop Mount Olympus are afeeard that the long-hopping,short-hopping fare payer will simply decide to rob a car or bicycle instead thus depriving us of his/her €1.40 .....;)

I really do feel that Leapcard needs an urgent Re-Launch if it's to regain the momentum it has to generate to succeed.

To do this,we require strong Management of it's market-focus,which currently is all-over-the-place,with many people being totally unaware of it's existence,let alone it's capabilities. :mad:

LeinsterDub

AlekSmart wrote: »

But,but,butter.....It would appear that the "statistics" which are shrouded in mysterious secrecy,indicate such carry on is at a figure of less that 2%.......however such statistics tend to be pooh-pooh'd wherever groups of Busdrivers gather....;)

I suspect that the great n good who sit atop Mount Olympus are afeeard that the long-hopping,short-hopping fare payer will simply decide to rob a car or bicycle instead thus depriving us of his/her €1.40 .....;)

I really do feel that Leapcard needs an urgent Re-Launch if it's to regain the momentum it has to generate to succeed.

To do this,we require strong Management of it's market-focus,which currently is all-over-the-place,with many people being totally unaware of it's existence,let alone it's capabilities. :mad:

I don't think so . It will be a slow burner, eventually in 1-5 years we will have a decent card and more and more will be using it. Sort of how electronic toll tags became more and more wide spread

bk

Well I don't think Leapcard should be relaunched until the whole public transport fare system is revised, with proper mult-modal travel.

Then that is the time to relaunch leapcard.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

Well I don't think Leapcard should be relaunched until the whole public transport fare system is revised, with proper mult-modal travel.

Then that is the time to relaunch leapcard.

If we rewind to 2000,it's possible to get a grasp of the scale of missed opportunity we now see....

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/2648-0.pdf


Remember this is 12 years ago........It's often said that time moves differently in Ireland,but up to Leapcard,we've been stuck for proof.....:o

wayne040576

Ok, so I did my first "online" top up in a shop today. Luckily the spar around the corner from my job does it and it went easily enough.

With the slowly increasing models of mobile phones containing NFC technology, am I naive in thinking an app may be available some time in the future to allow you to top up?

The app would require you to log in to your leap card account and have payment information stored there.

I'm sure the security concerns will slow that if not stop it altogether.
And by security I mean preventing people from doing hacks to top the cards up illegally.

Dravokivich

I recall hearing NFC phones being trialled as a replacement for a smartcard, possibly in London, but that's as much as I've heard on it.

wayne040576

Dravokivich wrote: »

I recall hearing NFC phones being trialled as a replacement for a smartcard, possibly in London, but that's as much as I've heard on it.

Whoah there Captain Kirk! Where do you think you are?!!

Seriously though, I wouldn't expect NFC phones to be used for paying for anything directly in this country for quite a while. I thought the app thing may be a solution though.

coylemj

wayne040576 wrote: »

Seriously though, I wouldn't expect NFC phones to be used for paying for anything directly in this country for quite a while. I thought the app thing may be a solution though.

Is NFC the technology used in the new Visa Debit card which can be used to pay for goods and services up to €15 by waving the car over a reader i.e. contactless payment?

wayne040576

coylemj wrote: »

wayne040576 wrote: »

Seriously though, I wouldn't expect NFC phones to be used for paying for anything directly in this country for quite a while. I thought the app thing may be a solution though.

Is NFC the technology used in the new Visa Debit card which can be used to pay for goods and services up to €15 by waving the car over a reader i.e. contactless payment?

Yeah that would be it.

AlekSmart

wayne040576 wrote: »

Yeah that would be it.

There's a bit about it here.....

http://www.nfcnews.com/2012/05/29/everything-everywhere-trials-nfc-payments-on-stagecoach-buses

Losty Dublin

coylemj wrote: »

Is NFC the technology used in the new Visa Debit card which can be used to pay for goods and services up to €15 by waving the car over a reader i.e. contactless payment?

I've two Visa Debit cards with these chips in them since July. I've only seen one shop in that time with a reader for them

AlekSmart

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I've two Visa Debit cards with these chips in them since July. I've only seen one shop in that time with a reader for them

I think you can get a BigMac Meal with a McFlurry using it.....?

Losty Dublin

AlekSmart wrote: »

I think you can get a BigMac Meal with a McFlurry using it.....?

Is that less than €15, Alek?

AlekSmart

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Is that less than €15, Alek?

As long as you don't SUPERSIZE it you should be grand....:eek:

Losty Dublin

AlekSmart wrote: »

As long as you don't SUPERSIZE it you should be grand....:eek:

I'll assume that you stick to the Euro Duties menu

bk

You will likely see a big rollout of contactless card readers to shops over the next year or two now that almost everyone in the country will have one of these cards by the end of the year (BOI's rollout is already almost complete, AIB start this month with their rollout).

It is a pity that they don't work as an ewallet with the leapcard readers. In the UK they are now transitioning to these contact less debit cards from Oyster cards for the ewallet.

I look forward to the day when my debit card, lepa card and dublin bikes card are all on one card. Even better on my smartphone.

coylemj

I don't think the Visa Debit card uses NFC technology. It looks to me that NFC requires both parties to have communications capability so the consumer end will typically be a mobile phone. The VISA Debit card is just a passive device probably with an RFID chip to provide it's identity via radio but it doesn't seem to involve NFC technology.

Keith186

coylemj wrote: »

The credit needs to be recorded on the card because the likes of Dublin Bus readers have no online (instant) access to the centralised database, hence you need to physically visit a machine to get the credit transferred onto the card.

Maybe someone can answer this one which you didn't mention - can you pickup new credit purchased online for a Leap card from a ticket machine in a Dart station yet - either the topup cash/CC machines or the readers at the barriers?

Sorry I didn't check back on this thread for while. Thanks for pointing out the reasons why it doesn't work. The way I imagined it would work would be logical but something always gets in the way of logic.

Dravokivich

coylemj wrote: »

The credit needs to be recorded on the card because the likes of Dublin Bus readers have no online (instant) access to the centralised database, hence you need to physically visit a machine to get the credit transferred onto the card.

Maybe someone can answer this one which you didn't mention - can you pickup new credit purchased online for a Leap card from a ticket machine in a Dart station yet - either the topup cash/CC machines or the readers at the barriers?

None of them are instantly online, including Luas and Irish Rail. Otherwise the information from them will be updated as you use the card, as opposed to following day.