Name the bondholders - yay or nay ?

Morlar

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/adams-calls-on-taoiseach-to-name-anglo-bondholders-537259.html

Adams calls on Taoiseach to name Anglo bondholders
25/01/2012 - 12:40:28

Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams has today called on Taoiseach Enda Kenny to name the bondholders who will receive payment of €1.25bn today.

Deputy Adams described the hand over as “scandalous”, particularly in light of the dire circumstances that ordinary people across the state find themselves now in as a result of government cuts and stealth taxes.

“This state is carrying too much debt,” he said. “Last year the Government gave the banks €20bn. At the same time there is too little investment in job creation and a whole series of new and additional stealth taxes have been introduced which are crippling low and middle income families and the poor.

“Today’s payment to unsecured, unguaranteed bondholders in the former Anglo Irish Bank is further evidence of the failure of Government austerity policies.

“This morning, I asked the Taoiseach to name the bondholders who will receive this payment. His response was that he could not. I have written to the Comptroller and Auditor General asking him to investigate this matter.

“To add insult to injury on the 31st of March a further €3.1bn of taxpayers’ money will be handed over in a promissory note in continuation of Fianna Fail’s disastrous strategy of dealing with the banking crisis.

“By the time it concludes paying this promissory note the state will have spent €74.6bn. We believe the Government should tell the European Central Bank that it cannot afford to these notes and begin serious negotiations to secure an acceptable resolution that works for Irish citizens.”

What say you ? Should the govt name the bondholders ? I can't really think of a legitimate reason why they would not.

Al Capwned

Hardly makes a difference does it? Still gonna be paid. Rightly so imo.

Sykk

Do NOT name the Bondholders

Of course. And they won't. Because half of them are probably pals of the cronies or the cronies themselves.

Sykk

Do NOT name the Bondholders

alproctor wrote: »

Hardly makes a difference does it? Still gonna be paid. Rightly so imo.

Well then you're an idiot. The unsecured bondholders were paid.

They took the risk and lost and we had no legal or moral obligation to pay them.

My name is URL

Do NOT name the Bondholders

Weren't they already outed on the Guido Fawkes blog a while back?

http://order-order.com/2010/10/15/anglo-irish-bondholders-should-take-the-lossesis-the-ecb-forcing-ireland-to-protect-german-investments/

listermint

I thought there were named already?

didnt a list come out in november

ilovesleep

You can bet your ass one of them will include Bertie.

ArmaniJeanss

My name is URL wrote: »

Weren't they already outed on the Guido Fawkes blog a while back?

http://order-order.com/2010/10/15/anglo-irish-bondholders-should-take-the-lossesis-the-ecb-forcing-ireland-to-protect-german-investments/

A few of the names on the Guido Fawkes blog have been confirmed as fake/incorrect, so it calls into question the whole thing.

The way he puts the Anglo Irish logo transposed on the list in an attempt to make it look official would be another indication that its spoof.

Morlar

Do NOT name the Bondholders

listermint wrote: »

I thought there were named already?

didnt a list come out in november

I don't think those are all of them, nor is that a verifiable / official list.

force eleven

Do NOT name the Bondholders

So who is the cheque made out to? Cash?

Of course they should name them.

Morlar

Do NOT name the Bondholders

force eleven wrote: »

So who is the cheque made out to? Cash?

For the amount of cash in today's payment you'd need a container truck.

bleg

I'm a bondholder and I went off to purchase some new swag and wives today.

The Lorax

I don't even know what a bondholder is, or the implications of paying or not paying them. Boring, TBH.

blackwhite

Don't really see the point.
The majority will be investment funds with meaningless names, pension funds and the like. All it will be is few more addresses for the crusties currently littering Dame Street to go to and harrass people.

tmc86

Do NOT name the Bondholders

The LoraxI don't even know what a bondholder is, or the implications of paying or not paying them. Boring, TBH.

Well nice to see you have some valuable opinions and an interest in why we as a country are in this mess today.

Morlar

Do NOT name the Bondholders

blackwhite wrote: »

Don't really see the point.
The majority will be investment funds with meaningless names, pension funds and the like. All it will be is few more addresses for the crusties currently littering Dame Street to go to and harrass people.

Are there any reasons why they should not be named ? Apart from the potential for 'harrassment of individuals by crusties'.

Jesus Wept

alproctor wrote: »

Hardly makes a difference does it? Still gonna be paid. Rightly so imo.

Can you explain why?

Bullseye1

Do NOT name the Bondholders

I thought I read that Irish Pension Funds had a big stake in all of this??

force eleven

Do NOT name the Bondholders

The Lorax wrote: »

I don't even know what a bondholder is, or the implications of paying or not paying them. Boring, TBH.

Poster unfortunately reflects the opinions of many who are simply so downtrodden and burdened with debt that it's pointless worrying about it. I get that. But, remember that this debt will be paid by your children and probably grandchildren in the form of greater taxation and lack of services for years to come.

Crazy Horse 6

Do NOT name the Bondholders

Whats happening today is daylight robbery simple as that. FG can be sure the Irish public wont forget about it come the next election.

My name is URL

Do NOT name the Bondholders

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

A few of the names on the Guido Fawkes blog have been confirmed as fake/incorrect, so it calls into question the whole thing.

The way he puts the Anglo Irish logo transposed on the list in an attempt to make it look official would be another indication that its spoof.

It could be a spoof. Naming them would put an end to speculation and potentially misplaced ill-feeling towards certain companies.

It won't happen though because the government themselves have already stated that even they don't know who the bond holders are.

simit

Do NOT name the Bondholders

Yeah they should be named, we have a right to know where our money is going.

WindSock

I'm a bond holder and so is my wife.

quietriot

It's fairly irrelevant if they're named or not? What are Irish people going to do about it? Nothing. Talkers but not walkers, unless of course there's a few to get together to shake some scary placards about outside the Dail...providing the weather is ok, of course.

The cost of paying the bondholders now is cheaper for our country long term than it would be to burn them. The consequences of burning them would be much more than the €2bn we're paying out. That's the unfortunate truth of the matter. We certainly have no legal obligation to do it, but if we don't then every one of us will face the consequences and they won't be pretty.

There's a good thread in the Irish Economy forum that explains some of the reasoning behind paying them, it's worth the read.

mconigol

Surely a Freedom of Information request could acquire this info. It is public funds after all?

Morlar

Do NOT name the Bondholders

quietriot wrote: »

It's fairly irrelevant if they're named or not? What are Irish people going to do about it? Nothing. Talkers but not walkers, unless of course there's a few to get together to shake some scary placards about outside the Dail...providing the weather is ok, of course.

The cost of paying the bondholders now is cheaper for our country long term than it would be to burn them. The consequences of burning them would be much more than the €2bn we're paying out. That's the unfortunate truth of the matter. We certainly have no legal obligation to do it, but if we don't then every one of us will face the consequences and they won't be pretty.

There's a good thread in the Irish Economy forum that explains some of the reasoning behind paying them, it's worth the read.

What if you don't agree that it is 'fairly irrelevant' ?

Are there reasons NOT to name them ? Will the skies fall if the list is made public or something ?

Morlar

Do NOT name the Bondholders

WindSock wrote: »

I'm a bond holder and so is my wife.

"Crusties to aisle one, crusties to aisle one. Bondholder in need of harrassment".

Lone Stone

I think we need to know because if it was some one in a position to influence the decisions to pay the bond holder's or not it would be very important information in regards to corruption/bias of the people making the decisions.

DoesNotCompute

Do NOT name the Bondholders

Didn't I read somewhere the our very own Finance Minister is an unsecured senior bondholder, so it's in his interest to pay?

Or is this misinformation?

quietriot

Morlar wrote: »

What if you don't agree that it is 'fairly irrelevant' ?

Are there reasons NOT to name them ? Will the skies fall if the list is made public or something ?

Doesn't really make a difference one way or another. More transparency is always good but I suppose if I were in the bondholders position I would probably want my right to privacy respected.

AeoNGriM

Do NOT name the Bondholders

I guaran-fcuking-tee you the papertrail leads to lending institutions that Irish politicians and rich property developers have stocks and shares in.

Guaranteed.

Also, since this is taxpayers money, too fcuking right should the bondholders be named. I'm paying for the fcuking caviar, I'd at least like to know who's eating it!

msg11

Do NOT name the Bondholders

alproctor wrote: »

Hardly makes a difference does it? Still gonna be paid. Rightly so imo.

If only all bookies though the same way as yourself, $$$

Do NOT name the Bondholders

Gerry Adams wants their names and addresses.




G'wan Gerry!

Do NOT name the Bondholders

Also

Minister for Finance Michael Noonan is an investor in German government bonds as well as share funds focused on China, India and the US, according to the 2010 register of interests for Dáil deputies published last night.
Mr Noonan, who has opposed “burning” bondholders in the main Irish banks, owns German government bonds paying a modest 1.75 per cent rate of interest and maturing in 2020, according to his entry in the register.

His interests also include popular share funds specialising in Chinese and Indian enterprises and metals and mining companies.

Mr Noonan listed occupational income in the form of a reduced teacher’s pension and his ownership of 20 acres of mixed pasture and woodland at his home in Foynes, Co Limerick.
- Irish Times

dsmythy

Poll neglects me. I don't think it's necessary to name them but at the same time I dont care if they are named. Carry on.

KindOfIrish

stop moaning and pay your taxes, suckers! we need your money

yours truly

bondholders :P

Morlar

Do NOT name the Bondholders

dsmythy wrote: »

Poll neglects me. I don't think it's necessary to name them but at the same time I dont care if they are named. Carry on.

I almost had a 'Yay or Nay or Gay' option (in place of boring atari jaguar) but thought better of it

DoesNotCompute

Do NOT name the Bondholders

Edz87 wrote: »

Gerry Adams wants their names and addresses.

So he can send da lads around?

mandate

here are the biggest bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank and all you need to know about them and their connection to the IMF

here is the full list of Anglo Irish bondholders, and the fact that the government are saying that they dont know, is a load of rubbish. 30 seconds on google will tell you.

woodoo

Do NOT name the Bondholders

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Didn't I read somewhere the our very own Finance Minister is an unsecured senior bondholder, so it's in his interest to pay?

Or is this misinformation?

I'd like to know more on this.

DoesNotCompute

Do NOT name the Bondholders

woodoo wrote: »

I'd like to know more on this.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2011/0409/1224294305462.html

There ya go.

DoesNotCompute

Do NOT name the Bondholders

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

So he can send da lads around?

Would be some craic if that happened though!


The press release would be gold. "Uh.. We uh.. We're grand for the eh money actually so eh, ye can keep it. Sorry for the hassle"


Then Gerry walking into the Dail with a huge sh­it eating grin, a true Irish hero!

shedweller

Do NOT name the Bondholders

I think its important to know who the bondholders are so we can all see how their profits do over the next few years. Maybe thats why there is such resistance to us knowing, both here on boards and in the media in general.

kieranfitz

Do NOT name the Bondholders

Looks like 4 of them are boardsies.

AngryBollix

What difference does it make?

Its not as if we are going to get our money back

later12

The Government don't necessarily know who is in receipt of the Anglo bond redemption.

It isn't a simple matter of some guy in London or NYC faxing over his serial number and account details. This stuff tends to go through intermediary parties.

Naming the headline purchasers of the debt named on the indenture is pointless, because there's very little chance they're still the owners.

AngryBollix

AeoNGriM wrote: »

I guaran-fcuking-tee you the papertrail leads to lending institutions that Irish politicians and rich property developers have stocks and shares in.

Guaranteed.

Also, since this is taxpayers money, too fcuking right should the bondholders be named. I'm paying for the fcuking caviar, I'd at least like to know who's eating it!

Does knowing who's eating your caviar solve anything?

Fighting Irish

tmc86 wrote: »

Well nice to see you have some valuable opinions and an interest in why we as a country are in this mess today.

I'm with him, i think the people of the country created the mess, and smart people made money off it

shedweller

Do NOT name the Bondholders

AngryBollix wrote: »

What difference does it make?

Its not as if we are going to get our money back

No, we never will. But at least we'll get to see how well the recipient does.

dsmythy

mandate wrote: »

here are the biggest bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank and all you need to know about them and their connection to the IMF

here is the full list of Anglo Irish bondholders, and the fact that the government are saying that they dont know, is a load of rubbish. 30 seconds on google will tell you.

That list has been discredited elsewhere on boards. Thread in the politics forum I think.

mandate

I am on the political forum every day, as well as politics.ie, and I have seen countless arguments that have been discredited by various different posters. Doesn't mean they are right, and it doesn't mean Im right either. The point is if this list of bondholders is not acurate, and the list of Anglo bondholders were revealed to the public, I think it would make little difference as we may not have ever heard of most of them. It is the other link which I am more interested in which details the Rothschild owned banks that Anglo have aquired since 1996, that we are now footing the bill for.