(USA) Suspect with crowbar gunned down

pistonsvox

**WARNING VIOLENT FOOTAGE**

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY5ioBvrYIg

Truly shocking, US cops have no value for life


http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=8515794

MONTEREY PARK, Calif. (KABC) -- Smashed windows at a fast-food restaurant in Monterey Park led to a deadly officer-involved shooting on Monday. One witness was able to catch the drama on video.

"I hear the sound of breaking windows, and a few minutes later, about six to 10 gunshots, a man on the floor, dogs barking, pedestrians all over the place, it was a pretty big scene," said witness Alex Soliz, who shot cellphone video of part of the incident.

Authorities responded to a report that a man was breaking windows at Carl's Jr. in the 1200 block of Avenida Cesar Chavez just before 9:30 a.m. Witnesses say the man had come in to Carl's Jr., but left without buying anything. He then came back with a 3-foot lead pipe and broke out all the windows.

"It was just like a loud shatter, like if somebody had literally crashed into the building, and it just happened to be where we looked up, and the glass literally shattered all over us," said witness Jimmy Aragon.

The suspect then walked inside, while workers and customers ran outside. Police arrived and surrounded the building, but investigators say the suspect was refusing their commands, and a Taser didn't stop him, either.

The suspect made a fatal decision as he raised the pipe and seemed to lunge at a police officer. A second officer fired five shots. Seconds after the suspect fell, the first officer fired five more shots.

bluto63

That's pretty shocking. Not so much that the police shot him, but the amount of times he shot him. That's not trying to stop him, that's trying to kill him. Awful policing.

Stereomaniac

Wow. So that Uncle Jimbo thing of "Look out, it's comin straight for us!" really does exist in the U.S. There were so many of them there, could they not just have jumped on the guy?

somefeen

I know its a pointless waste of life but by the looks of it he was about to whack the other cop with a deadly weapon.

I'd of shot him to just not so many times.

And its the dickheads laughing about it that I find the most shocking

Chuck Stone

Why didn't the dumb prick release the dog at him?

Isn't that what they're for?

J. Marston

He was still standing after 5 shots at close range? That's crazy. Complete overkill from the cops, 5 shots at point blank range, pause, another 5 when the guys back was turned.

Helix

J. Marston wrote: »

He was still standing after 5 shots at close range? That's crazy. Complete overkill from the cops, 5 shots at point blank range, pause, another 5 when the guys back was turned.

the fact that they tazed him in the face and he didnt so much as flinch would suggest he was high on something. hard to argue with unloading on him tbh, if he's not down he's gonna keep coming

wouldnt have let the dog at him personally, that'd have been too dangerous for the dog

probably shouldve shot him in the legs, but given the proximity of the guy to the cops and the fact that he looked very ready to go to down on the one who tazed him, that may not have been the safest option

minidazzler

Helix wrote: »

the fact that they tazed him in the face and he didnt so much as flinch would suggest he was high on something. hard to argue with unloading on him tbh, if he's not down he's gonna keep coming

wouldnt have let the dog at him personally, that'd have been too dangerous for the dog

probably shouldve shot him in the legs, but given the proximity of the guy to the cops and the fact that he looked very ready to go to down on the one who tazed him, that may not have been the safest option

You shoot a guy in the legs you're gonna miss, and hit the ground around him which will cause ricochet's. He needed to be taken down, common sense dictates the biggest target so you won't miss.

He went for the cop, he deserved it. He saw the guns on him, he knew the situation.

mikemac1

Helix wrote: »

probably shouldve shot him in the legs,

That just does not happen
And that video of the police sniper shooting a gun from a lowlifes hand has people overestimating what is possible

It's a car park with pedestrians around, the officer has a powerful dog pulling on him and if falls off balance and the bullet hits concrete well who knows who it will hit

A blow to the head from a crowbar could kill you and the lowlife was one to two seconds from striking the guy behind him

Yeah, probably on drugs and if he wasn't, suicide by cop tbh. He knew what was going to happen

phill106

Criminal was certainly getting ready to swing, you can see from the grip. That many shots is overkill though.

Nobody else found it disturbing that after the shots were fired, whoever was recording it started laughing?

minidazzler

Deleted User wrote: »

Nobody else found it disturbing that after the shots were fired, whoever was recording it started laughing?

People will often laugh in scary situations. Just think how you feel when you get off a rollercoaster.

Their reaction later was more appropriate to the situation after what actually happened settled in.

That said, he deserved what he got, he made a play to hurt an officer and was duly taken down.

Guill

In fairness he was acting aggressive and made a move towards a cop while holding a crow bar, i doubt it that society will miss another crim.

af_thefragile

You know how it goes there. Shoot first, ask questions later...

minidazzler

af_thefragile wrote: »

You know how it goes there. Shoot first, ask questions later...

Bullshido. They Told him put it down, Tazed him and then only when he went to attack a cop did they shoot him.

Duggy747

10 rounds? Really?

He fell after the 5th round. The extra 5 were to completely finish him off.

Still, whether he was off his nut or wanted a suicide by cops job they made sure he wasn't getting back up.

Sykk

pistonsvox wrote: »

Truly shocking, US cops have no value for life

Quoted for the lol

Clearly that one police officer is identical to all the millions of police throughout the U.S.


Btw.. No loss.

minidazzler

Sykk wrote: »

Quoted for the lol

Clearly that one police officer is identical to all the millions of police throughout the U.S.


Btw.. No loss.

I'm not sure, but that sounded like 5 shots and 5 echo's to me.

Allyall

He broke glass. Shoot him to death.

That's shocking. He did lunge, but it looked more like, "Don't come near me with that again, or else.."

If it was really necessary to shoot him, then why not shoot him in the legs, from that distance, it wouldn't be hard to miss.

minidazzler

Allyall wrote: »

He broke glass. Shoot him to death.

That's shocking. He did lunge, but it looked more like, "Don't come near me with that again, or else.."

If it was really necessary to shoot him, then why not shoot him in the legs, from that distance, it wouldn't be hard to miss.

You've never shot a firearm have you? And you know very little about ballistics in general. You never aim for legs, if you do you will probably miss and then the rounds will ricochet and then you don't know where they are going.

He lunged with a deadly weapon, he made the move while guns were pointed at him, he messed up, he died. His fault.

If he had hit the officer and killed or seriously injured him, what then? He serves a few years in prison, gets out tougher while the family of the officer are down a husband/father/son or he is injured to the extent that he is a burden on his family.

The guy just had to drop his weapon and he would have lived, that easy, but he made a move...the wrong move.

--Kaiser--

Can't see a problem with this. Suspect was carrying a dangerous weapon disobeyed police orders, then attempted to assault an officer. Gets shot.

My only problems with it are that they a) shouldn't have been so close to him in the first place and b) shouldn't have wasted so many bullets

BigDuffman

Chap was maced and kept going like Jason.

As with all fire arms training you're programmed to aim and fire at centre mass. Aiming at legs is not feasible as its not safe for innocent bystanders on account of potentially missing / ricochet and the fact that it might not stop the attacker. It being America and all you never know if he was wearing a vest so 5 shots can be justified.

He made a swing which could of killed the cop. He was put down. The second copper however was not justified IMO.

RichieC

Duggy747 wrote: »

10 rounds? Really?

He fell after the 5th round. The extra 5 were to completely finish him off.

Still, whether he was off his nut or wanted a suicide by cops job they made sure he wasn't getting back up.

I'd rather not be alive personally after 5 rounds in the chest..

RichieC

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

Can't see a problem with this. Suspect was carrying a dangerous weapon disobeyed police orders, then attempted to assault an officer. Gets shot.

My only problems with it are that they a) shouldn't have been so close to him in the first place and b) shouldn't have wasted so many bullets

they are about 20 cent each.

c0rk3r

Potentially 10 shots in him or gone through him and they still handcuff the guy.

Just for comparison heres a similar incident in the UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX5CPx4RKWw

Also read the description which says

Youtube description wrote:

Angry man armed with machete is taken down eventually after taunting police by over 30 police officers with riot shields. According to the story he'd been CS gassed (pepper spray) and was still going strong.

Seems a little over kill to me. Then again this isn't America where they'd just open fire on him.

I did not film this video, credit to Mark Pether for filming this.

somefeen

A gunshot wound to the leg can be just as fatal.

The ass is the only safe place to get shot.

Son Of A Vidic

My only critisim would be, the cop without the dog should not have re-holstered his weapon. Because he was then very nearly caught out by the nut when he appeared to lunge toward him. But the nut was clearly on something, he just brushed off a face load of pepper spray. The shooter had no choice but to protect his buddy and that was no crowbar he was carrying btw. Because it certainly looked more lethal than a standard crowbar imo.

Socialist_Pig

somefeen wrote: »

And its the dickheads laughing about it that I find the most shocking

was just about to say that

partyatmygaff

I don't see an issue with this. If someone is holding a weapon, refusing to back down and attempting to attack you or anyone else you have every right to neutralise the threat even if that means shooting them in the chest.

If you play with fire, you deserve what you get.

Overheal

c0rk3r wrote: »

Potentially 10 shots in him or gone through him and they still handcuff the guy.

Just for comparison heres a similar incident in the UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX5CPx4RKWw

Also read the description which says

In fact I'm adding this one to my library. This is a perfect example of why an unarmed police force is so impractical. Count the number of Cops at Carl Jr's in the first video and compare that to the 30 cops required to handle one crazy machete-weilding man. Which also reminds me of that girl the other week who blew a machete-guy away with a shotgun.

The use of force was justifiable. He didn't go down with non-lethal force (Taser) and in fact that actually just provoked him to attack the officer. At which point his partner hits him with 5 rounds, then another 5 rounds. He was still on his feet after the first 5 rounds.

Plenty of gangsters in LA will be glad to show you the bullet wounds they're still alive from though. One bullet or 5 will not always keep you down.

minidazzler wrote: »

I'm not sure, but that sounded like 5 shots and 5 echo's to me.

It was definitely 10 shots total.

mikemac1 wrote: »

That just does not happen
And that video of the police sniper shooting a gun from a lowlifes hand has people overestimating what is possible

And that officer was an Army Ranger trained ex-military sharpshooter, and he spent a considerable amount of situation time placing that shot. It is not something you can do inside of a few seconds, with a handgun.

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Why didn't the dumb prick release the dog at him?

Isn't that what they're for?

Not primarily no. They're drug dogs and also used to chase down suspects that try to flee on foot. Using the dog as a front line of defense in this case would have been completely irresponsible, and likely result in the dog's death.

Overheal

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

My only critisim would be, the cop without the dog should not have re-holstered his weapon. Because he was then very nearly caught out by the nut when he appeared to lunge toward him. But the nut was clearly on something, he just brushed off a face load of pepper spray. The shooter had no choice but to protect his buddy and that was no crowbar he was carrying btw. Because it certainly looked more lethal than a standard crowbar imo.

That was his taser. I believe he was trying to reload it with a second cartridge.

kincsem

How is this in Cool Vids?

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

The use of force was justifiable.

Unbelievable. After the first 5 shots, what did he do to warrent another 5 being pumped into him?

He was clearly falling away by the time the second round of shots were fired.

JCDUB

I love reading posts from all the armchair military/firearms/police tactics experts that have come out of the woodwork for this thread.

Fucking ridiculously excessive reaction from the policeman. They are supposed to be trained to deal with these situations in a reasonable manner. Firing 5 shots at his chest from point blank range is not reasonable.

There were enough of them there to use their training and diffuse the situation, and if they weren't capable of that they shouldn't be police officers in the first place.

Overheal

JCDUB wrote: »

I love reading posts from all the armchair military/firearms/police tactics experts that have come out of the woodwork for this thread.

Fucking ridiculously excessive reaction from the policeman. They are supposed to be trained to deal with these situations in a reasonable manner. Firing 5 shots at his chest from point blank range is not reasonable.

There were enough of them there to use their training and diffuse the situation, and if they weren't capable of that they shouldn't be police officers in the first place.

Oh Really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX5CPx4RKWw

by the way do you not see the irony of your own post?

He was clearly falling away by the time the second round of shots were fired.

Actually from what I saw he was still standing upright, though he had spun completely around he was still on his feet. Cops had to assume he was either wearing a protective vest, or was drugged up on something, or both.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Actually from what I saw he was still standing upright, though he had spun completely around he was still on his feet. Cops had to assume he was either wearing a protective vest, or was drugged up on something, or both.

Because he was still standing upright, he deserved another 5 rounds?!
He was absolutely no threat before the second 5 rounds he swallowed.

That is shocking.

Land of the free. Where the police are judge, jury and executioner on a fast food parking lot.

V_Moth

Overheal wrote: »

Oh Really?

by the way do you not see the irony of your own post?

Actually from what I saw he was still standing upright, though he had spun completely around he was still on his feet. Cops had to assume he was either wearing a protective vest, or was drugged up on something, or both.

Do you not see the irony in your post?

The English police officers eventually overpowered the suspect and arrested him.

Number of bullets fired: 0
Number of people killed: 0
Number of people properly arrested (and most likely prosecuted): 1/1

As someone commented on the youtube video you posted: "You don't solve crime with murder".

Overheal

And it took 30 of them. There were 2 police officers in the OP. And one was about to be mauled with a crowbar when he was caught of guard reloading his non-lethal first choice.

I don't think you understand irony. What I was referring to is a post complaining about armchair experts that then goes on to make an expert assumption that it was excessive.

Don't get me wrong it would be *amazing* if there were always 30 cops on retainer for any given situation, but in all seriousness. You don't find it just a little bit bewildering that it took 30 officers to defeat one machete? And how many Gardai would it take? How many have you got? How many Gardai would it take, to bring down 1 suspect with a handgun? 48?

salonfire wrote: »

Because he was still standing upright, he deserved another 5 rounds?!
He was absolutely no threat before the second 5 rounds he swallowed.

How do you know? Again, he was still on his feet after 5 rounds, he could have very easily still been a threat, especially if wearing body armor or being up on narcotics. Crazier things have happened.

Land of the free. Where the police are judge, jury and executioner on a fast food parking lot.

Oh that old tired line. They aren't any of those things. They're police officers. The law, clearly defined, gave them the authority to shoot. They tried verbal instruction, a Taser, and before they could try other non-lethal alternatives, he came to within inches of taking off a cop's face. The gun was the only available option at that precise moment. The law is very clear that in that moment the cop had more right to life than the suspect did.

And what's more? An investigation, likely overseen by a judge, will still be left to determine if what they did was legal or not.

I'm more than willing to hear how you think the situation could have been handled any differently, I just hope that you somehow find a way that doesn't involve the cop getting killed with a crowbar.

Voodu Child

The incompetence of the police officers lead to them putting themselves in a position where they felt they needed to use deadly force.

Of course the bulk of the blame has to go towards the guy who decided to walk around smashing things with a crowbar. But the cops made several very incompetent decisions and actions which lead to the use of lethal force.

That's the problem with an arbitrarily armed police force. A certain % of people in most walks of life are incompetent, police are no exception.

Overheal

Voodu Child wrote: »

The incompetence of the police officers lead to them putting themselves in a position where they felt they needed to use deadly force.

Of course the bulk of the blame has to go towards the guy who decided to walk around smashing things with a crowbar. But the cops made several very incompetent decisions and actions which lead to the use of lethal force.

That's the problem with an arbitrarily armed police force. A certain % of people in most walks of life are incompetent, police are no exception.

You say they make several incompetent decisions yet fail to enumerate them.

Voodu Child

Overheal wrote: »

You say they make several incompetent decisions yet fail to enumerate them.

As the guy exits the building, they've backed themselves into a corner. Distance is the simplest defence against someone armed with a wielded weapon.

Then the guy on the left closes in for no reason against an armed suspect all the while looking down and fumbling with his taser. He's not even watching where he is going.

He escalated the situation and he put himself in a vulnerable position close to a suspect with a weapon, forcing his equally incompetent partner to riddle the guy with bullets.

sgb

If you are going to shoot, shoot to kill, one bullet or six bullet's

good riddance to bad rubbish

Overheal

Voodu Child wrote: »

As the guy exits the building, they've backed themselves into a corner. Distance is the simplest defence against someone armed with a wielded weapon.

They were not in a corner of any description. They wanted to get behind the suspect, is my reckoning.

Then the guy on the left closes in for no reason against an armed suspect all the while looking down and fumbling with his taser. He's not even watching where he is going.

Incorrect. "All the while" returned {False};

He closed to use his Taser. Tasers do not have long range in the best of conditions, and this is a guy who was wearing heavy clothing and a hoodie. The only point for a taser barb to create an electrical current is the suspect's face. He then had to re-arm the taser when the shot failed to incapacitate the suspect.

He escalated the situation and he put himself in a vulnerable position close to a suspect with a weapon, forcing his equally incompetent partner to riddle the guy with bullets.

He escalated the situation by using nonlethal avenues of enforcement which failed in the given situation. The suspect then felt for whatever reason that attacking a police officer was a good idea. No blame for the suspect?

Overheal

Decided to look for a follow up, and found this:

http://www.tntmagazine.com/news/world/video-la-police-shoot-man-outside-carls-jr

A man who threatened police in LA with a metal bar was gunned down by police outside a fast food restaurant on Monday.

Shocking footage was recorded of the event by teen bystanders outside the Carl’s Jr. burger chain in the notoriously violent California city.

The mystery man was electrocuted with a Taser by officers on the scene but still refused to stand down. He had reportedly smashed the windows of the restaurant with a crowbar or metal piping before being confronted outside in the car park.

The video shows the man removing the Taser spikes and moving towards the police officer, who then shoots him with a pistol five times. After stumbling and spinning around, he continues to try and attack the officer and so they retaliate with five more shots. A bystander can be heard exclaiming 'Dude they shot him so many times!'.

There have been shocked reactions to the footage, with angry reactions to the overuse of lethal force. During the filming, the teenagers who are filming using a phone camera comment 'They could have done something f***in’ different than f***in’ shoot him, use a baton or some s**t.'

The most popular comment on YouTube from user Lesinki who says “These cops are clearly murderers, and there is no question about it. In any European country they would end up in prison, serving 10-25 years. If they got away with what they did to that kid without punishment, the U.S. truly is a wild, sick country...”

The man later died in hospital.

The man, later, died in hospital.

Just in case anybody was in any doubts that one bullet is enough? Obviously I'm inferring here that even after being recipient of 10 rounds, the suspect was still alive at the scene, and arrived at the hospital before giving up the ghost.

[Jackass]

Ah lads, if this guy was arrested for smashing a few windows and then swinging a pipe at a cop and he was sentenced to death by a judge, you'd all be thinking WTF?!?!

There is no way lethal force was appropriate in this instance. He did not have a lethal weapon, he had not harmed any member of the public, and he was possibly mentally ill.

A cop has no right to decide if he should live or die in that instance, and even if the cop decided to open fire, 1 shot may be acceptable, 2 is bordering excessive, if you can put it down to inexperience or panic, but this guy was shot TEN times, 5 of which were when his back was turned and after a brief pause.

I know a cops job is difficult, particularly in the states, where it is also a lot more dangerous, but this is extremely excessive, and at no point is it reasonable to assume that any persons life was at risk.

The reason this video is on youtube is that it was reported in the papers that the suspect swung and attacked a female officer, swinging the a crowbar TWICE ( when in fact it was a tool for shaping piping, with no sharp edges, and only swung once at a male officer, from a distance, while maced in the face, and probably blind) .

The person put the video on youtube so the family can have it for evidence, and also several news agencies attempted to buy the copy right from the poster, which he refused, so the family can have the money to use towards legal expenses.

youtube description wrote:

If anyone can please help me find Steven Rodriguez direct family i would greatly appreciate it, Ive had networks offer money for licensing rights to this video and upon denying them, i then thought that maybe his family could use this money for attorney expenses or whatever, if anyone knows this persons family and can message me through my YouTube account it would be greatly appreciated. Thank You.

I know as some may think it is a disgrace to have this video up and online, it is only online because of a false report i read before posting about how a female officer stated that Steven swung twice at the officer which is completely false. thus the video is up to show the truth of what happened that day and throw away any hearsay or falsified reports.

Original VIDEO as seen on CBS KCAL ABC FOX and Univision34

To my account this is what i witnessed, this is only my view of what i saw while i was on the scene and NOTHING more.

After people were running out side of the Carls Jr. a man holding what looked like to be a metal pipe bender was walking very slowly and calmly toward the side of Carls Jr. very nonchalantly smashing in the windows with his weapon, he then walked into the fast food restaurant. while the suspect was inside the police arrived and set up to the right of the enterance. the police told the suspect, some command i was unable to hear, the suspect then walked out side and well the rest can be seen from the video, at the time it was believed that he was shot with rubber pellets and sadly that wasn't case. The suspect seemed to be shot 5 times while facing the officer and then shot at 5 times again while his back was turned to the officer, allegedly of course




MONTEREY PARK, Calif. (KABC) -- A suspect armed with a crowbar was shot outside of a Carl's Jr. restaurant in Monterey Park on Monday morning.

Authorities say the incident began with the suspect breaking windows at Carl's Jr. in the 1200 block of Avenida Cesar Chavez just before 9:30 a.m. The suspect then walked inside, while workers and customers ran outside.

Police arrived as the suspect was exiting the fast-food restaurant. After repeatedly telling the suspect to drop the weapon, the suspect was Tasered.

Police said the Taser was ineffective, and the suspect swung the three-foot metal bar at officers twice. At least one officer opened fire on the suspect.

The suspect was taken to a local hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

No one else was injured in the incident. The officer-involved shooting is under investigation.

(Copyright ©2012 KABC-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)

Witcher

[Jackass] wrote: »

at no point is it reasonable to assume that any persons life was at risk.

He turned and raised it against the officer who was reloading his taser...the cop was defenceless, if he had landed that on his head it's not outrageous to assume it would have killed him outright. He had a cop pointing a gun in his face and still chose raise the crowbar..not to be cold hearted but frankly that's asking for it. I'm not justifying the shooting but really people are making out the guy was a saint there, the cop was reacting to an incident that happened in a split second. At the end of the day the guy with the crowbar made his decision, nobody forced him to walk around with it or turn to attack an officer. To say one shot would have done it is ridiculous too, the guy doesn't even flinch until the third shot is fired.

[Jackass]

What happened to an old fashioned tackle on the guy? 3 or 4 officers just rush him from behind, he's surrounded...

Put it this way, if you were on the street with 10 of your mates, who just happened to recieve full police training, and a guy comes at you with a metal bar, do you think you'd need to kill him to defuse the situation?

Overheal

I'm not a fan of repeating something already gone over on the thread. He was still alive after 10 rounds and a taser charge to the face. One bullet, wouldn't have done anything.

What happened to an old fashioned tackle on the guy?

Widowed officer's wives happened.

Witcher

[Jackass] wrote: »

What happened to an old fashioned tackle on the guy? 3 or 4 officers just rush him from behind, he's surrounded...

Put it this way, if you were on the street with 10 of your mates, who just happened to recieve full police training, and a guy comes at you with a metal bar, do you think you'd need to kill him to defuse the situation?

Rush him? Seriously? The criminal is wielding a short range melee weapon and you suggest they engage in close quarters unarmed combat?...Yes rushing him is the answer. If they have an item(a firearm) which doesn't require the risk involved in closing the distance to him and tackling him why not use it? The cop obviously drew his gun to defuse the situation not to intentionally shoot him, the guy no doubt saw the gun and still attempted to swing the crowbar necessitating the cop to shoot him. The guy with the crow bar is at fault here.

These hypothetical situations are useless in analysing this video, he didn't have time to consider the options or the ethics of the situation, the guy turned and raised a weapon against a police officer, he either shot him or let it play out and probably end up with a fellow officer dead. It's easy for us to pass judgement when we can play the video over and over and consider differing options of how to deal with it, he had a split second to realise the threat and decide whether to potentially end someone's life, hardly a walk in the park and something the average person watching the video will never have to experience. It's a regrettable situation for all involved but to blame the cop is ridiculous.

[Jackass]

Well if you read my posts, I'm not blaming the cop, and in fact say that I could understand a shot being fired, but ten??

I just think it's excessive and tantamount to murder, and I don't accept you assertion that not shooting him ten times would "probably end up with a fellow officer dead." Particularly the final 5 shots, where his back was turned and being shot as he is retreating / going to ground.

In my opinion, absolutely no ones life was in danger, and the situation was under control, even with the half blind man swinging a bar around, lethal force is not required, and further tazering and macing was still an option and everybody can maintain a safe distance. But we'll have to agree to disagree I guess.

kraggy

minidazzler wrote: »

You've never shot a firearm have you? And you know very little about ballistics in general. You never aim for legs, if you do you will probably miss and then the rounds will ricochet and then you don't know where they are going.

He lunged with a deadly weapon, he made the move while guns were pointed at him, he messed up, he died. His fault.

If he had hit the officer and killed or seriously injured him, what then? He serves a few years in prison, gets out tougher while the family of the officer are down a husband/father/son or he is injured to the extent that he is a burden on his family.

The guy just had to drop his weapon and he would have lived, that easy, but he made a move...the wrong move.

The legs aren't the ideal place to aim for but he wasn't moving fast. I've used a Glock 17 which is used by many police forces in the US. The first time I shot one I hit 6 of my 10 shots in a square foot on a target 21 feet away, which is 7 metres.

They could have easily hit his legs from where they were standing. Even if they couldn't, why unload TEN BULLETS on him? There was no need for it. He was on the way to the ground after the first 5. The threat was eliminated.

That's murder in my eyes. If he was holding a gun I'd say fair enough but he wasn't.