is it time for all Employed workers to pack up and leave Ireland

average_runner

I am a highly skilled worker and i dont mind paying my way etc, but last budget the government increase vat on petrol thats gone thru the roof and then also healthcare costs along with fire brigade call out charges etc.

So is it time for the skilled workers to say goodbye and let the politicans run the country without us?

steve9859

Done it already!

Sleepy

It's certainly tempting at times. If my family weren't so firmly tied here by circumstance, I suspect I'd have left for the UK at least a year ago...

johnnyskeleton

Do what is best for yourself

syklops

steve9859 wrote: »

Done it already!

Same here, but would return tomorrow if I could.

RichardAnd

I really hate the terms "skilled" and "un-skilled". No offense to the OP but I think it's a little pretentious . . .

To answer the question though I would say no. Believe it or not, other European states charge even higher taxes. As regards petrol prices, they're not exceptionally cheap anywhere else, observe:

http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

Sleepy

RichardAnd wrote: »

I really hate the terms "skilled" and "un-skilled". No offense to the OP but I think it's a little pretentious . . .

If being a highly skilled worker is pretentious, I think we need more pretentiousness in this country at the moment

Unfortunately, I see no correlation between the two, the most pretentious people during the boom were those struggling most now: the semi-skilled chippies, plumbers, sparks and brickies and their female equivalent beauticians, retail assistants and wedding planners.

Manach

How well is the tax money managed in other countries? On a per benefit back basis, is there data to show that the higher overseas taxes for an average tax-payer are in the form of better social services.
From my experience of public travel, I reckon not.

The Muppet

Sleepy wrote: »

If being a highly skilled worker is pretentious, I think we need more pretentiousness in this country at the moment

Unfortunately, I see no correlation between the two, the most pretentious people during the boom were those struggling most now: the semi-skilled chippies, plumbers, sparks and brickies and their female equivalent beauticians, retail assistants and wedding planners.

Semi skilled sparks? lol

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

.................... the semi-skilled chippies, plumbers, sparks and brickies and their female equivalent beauticians, retail assistants and wedding planners.

You're describing time served tradesmen and beauticians as semi skilled?

RichardAnd

Sleepy wrote: »

If being a highly skilled worker is pretentious, I think we need more pretentiousness in this country at the moment

Unfortunately, I see no correlation between the two, the most pretentious people during the boom were those struggling most now: the semi-skilled chippies, plumbers, sparks and brickies and their female equivalent beauticians, retail assistants and wedding planners.

Semi skilled? Have you ever tried to build a wall or re-wire a house? There was crappy "trades-men" around during the boom but there's nothing unskilled about their trades. Are you, perchance, one of those people who think that "skilled" only comes with a degree and an office?

munchkin_utd

Sleepy wrote: »

It's certainly tempting at times. If my family weren't so firmly tied here by circumstance, I suspect I'd have left for the UK at least a year ago...

well - you wouldnt be moving to the UK for cheap petrol or cheap public transport!

Irelands taxes and charges are STILL low and theres little or no water charges and no local taxes which is a bloody contrast to UK/ Europe/ US where you DO have more than just income tax + prsi.

Me and the mrs would have about 12 grand more in the pocket in Ireland compared to germany from personal taxes and charges alone - leaving aside water charges and whatnot that are not common in Ireland that we also pay.

average_runner

RichardAnd wrote: »

I really hate the terms "skilled" and "un-skilled". No offense to the OP but I think it's a little pretentious . . .

To answer the question though I would say no. Believe it or not, other European states charge even higher taxes. As regards petrol prices, they're not exceptionally cheap anywhere else, observe:

http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html

Sorry i said highly skilled, but i jsut meant it so that be easier for me relocate and get a job.

Taxes in most other countries arent higher than here when you add high rate tax plus universal charge.

Plus also in other countries you get free health, chidlcare and school care for the kids, so taking that into account i would save over 2g a month!!

Attabear

When you say highly skilled, what kind of jobs are we talking about?

krissovo

I guess I am quite lucky as me and my wife have what is considered good jobs in the current climate for international companies. Our income is down and we have gone from saving a few bob with a nice summer holiday to living solely off our wages with not much spare. Thats even after selling a car, changing to lidl etc.

We are both patriotic but its starting to become a strain as we have lived within our means and we are bailing people out who are part of the problem. We both have offers of international employment, mine to relocate full time to Germany and she can go to California.

I guess one more stunt by the government to stealth tax us and we will have to follow one of the opportunities.

average_runner

Attabear wrote: »

When you say highly skilled, what kind of jobs are we talking about?

IT is my area. Doesnt matter what my area is in anyhow, is it basically time to bail on this country?

Dodge

What are you looking for OP? You seem to think it'll work out great for you, so why are you looking for anonymous validation on a public forum?

Let others decide for themselves.

Talk of "shouldn't we all" is pathetic, as is the idea that many on these forums have that their particular demographic is the ONLY one thats being persecuted.

Attabear

average_runner wrote: »

IT is my area. Doesnt matter what my area is in anyhow, is it basically time to bail on this country?

No, I don't think so.

I think when things are good here, there's a tendency to believe they'll always be good.

When things are bad, people think they'll never be good again.

I choose to believe that we have the ability, the intelligence and the ingenuity to be a great country one day and we need people like yourself with skills and education to stick around and make that happen.

Or maybe I'm just kidding myself.:)

Sleepy

munchkin_utd wrote: »

well - you wouldnt be moving to the UK for cheap petrol or cheap public transport!

Irelands taxes and charges are STILL low and theres little or no water charges and no local taxes which is a bloody contrast to UK/ Europe/ US where you DO have more than just income tax + prsi.

Me and the mrs would have about 12 grand more in the pocket in Ireland compared to germany from personal taxes and charges alone - leaving aside water charges and whatnot that are not common in Ireland that we also pay.

Nope not lower taxes but, while the NHS has it's problems, the HSE makes it look like a shining beacon of perfection.

That and salaries for my skillset in the UK are about twice what they are here and there are far more opportunities to use them.

And I'm sorry if it offends some people's sensibilities but, yes, I'd consider most trades to be semi-skilled positions.

Brussels Sprout

Sleepy wrote: »

And I'm sorry if it offends some people's sensibilities but, yes, I'd consider most trades to be semi-skilled positions.

I have a degree in engineering, a masters in an IT related area and a number of years experience working in 3 different countries and I'd still consider someone who's got a good trade as more skilled than I am.

pog it

Attabear wrote: »

Or maybe I'm just kidding myself.:)

You absolutely are Attabear. There are individuals who have turned things around for themselves and those who have actively protested but the rest are still capable of dragging us down. Try to ignore them all you want but their gombeenism and passiveness is ridiculously embarrassing and demoralising.

Finnbar01

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I have a degree in engineering, a masters in an IT related area and a number of years experience working in 3 different countries and I'd still consider someone who's got a good trade as more skilled than I am.

At the end of the day it all depends on how a person applies their skills or trade when doing a job, working on a problem etc.

I've encountered many people from different backgrounds with different skills/educational levels etc and it's their attitude to life and work that really makes the difference.*

* Common sense also works wonders.

ardmacha

Taxes on many remain lower than other places, although the better paid pay their share. Public opinion denies this, however.

Income taxes for people on two-thirds of average income from the USC review document. Spain is low here too, but the Irish data is 2011 and the other countries 2009 so Spain and Portugal might have raised their taxes already.

silly houseowner

Sleepy wrote: »

Nope not lower taxes but, while the NHS has it's problems, the HSE makes it look like a shining beacon of perfection.

That and salaries for my skillset in the UK are about twice what they are here and there are far more opportunities to use them.

And I'm sorry if it offends some people's sensibilities but, yes, I'd consider most trades to be semi-skilled positions.

public sector bashing,private sector bashing and now a bit of job bashing.Just curious but if it wasnt for these [SEMI SKILLED WORKERS] what exactly would you be living in.Did your degree come with a tent.

Sleepy

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I have a degree in engineering, a masters in an IT related area and a number of years experience working in 3 different countries and I'd still consider someone who's got a good trade as more skilled than I am.

Why?

You have skills which are currently in demand and which allow you to work in a huge number of different roles with no, or minimal, retraining and have already proven yourself capable of that training.

A tradesman has one skill which may or may not be transferable to other roles or industries and which has almost certainly seen the demand for it's provision decimated in the recession. Re-training many tradesmen to a profession there is demand for will be significantly harder since so many of them left school with little more than a half-hearted attempt at a Leaving Cert ("what's the point in studying for it sure, there's massive money in a trade!").

Yes, it's rather a generalisation, I know of guys who had engineering/ business qualifications before beginning their apprenticeships but they're very much in the minority in my experience.

It's unlikely that we will ever require the same number of sparks, chippies, plumbers, painters or brickies in Ireland as we've trained over the past decade and when so many of them have only a single skill, and one for which there is insufficient demand for they may as well be unskilled in this economy.

Tora Bora

average_runner wrote: »

I am a highly skilled worker and i dont mind paying my way etc, but last budget the government increase vat on petrol thats gone thru the roof and then also healthcare costs along with fire brigade call out charges etc.

So is it time for the skilled workers to say goodbye and let the politicans run the country without us?

Beefore you go, just check out the ACTUAL situation in other countries regarding cost of fuel, propeerty taxes, water charges, VAT, and various local government levies and charges

Tip here, go to RTE Player and watch last Monday nights Frontline. Forget Plank Kenny waffling, just go to the part where he asks a German lady in the audience, about the taxes and charges applicable in her home town in Germany.

After that, come back and tell us, if you still plan on flying of to the many, many lands of milk and honey, where everything is free and there are no taxes at all:cool:

jester77

Tora Bora wrote: »

Beefore you go, just check out the ACTUAL situation in other countries regarding cost of fuel, propeerty taxes, water charges, VAT, and various local government levies and charges

Tip here, go to RTE Player and watch last Monday nights Frontline. Forget Plank Kenny waffling, just go to the part where he asks a German lady in the audience, about the taxes and charges applicable in her home town in Germany.

After that, come back and tell us, if you still plan on flying of to the many, many lands of milk and honey, where everything is free and there are no taxes at all:cool:

Exactly, the grass is always greener. Move to Germany and you will be paying more for petrol, you'll be paying €400+ per month for health care, you will be paying property tax, you'll be paying water rates, you'll even be paying over €100 a month in church tax if you ever want to have a church service. Ireland is only catching up with everywhere else!

Tora Bora

jester77 wrote: »

Exactly, the grass is always greener. Move to Germany and you will be paying more for petrol, you'll be paying €400+ per month for health care, you will be paying property tax, you'll be paying water rates, you'll even be paying over €100 a month in church tax if you ever want to have a church service. Ireland is only catching up with everywhere else!

And as the lady on Frontline said, if the local town council decides in it's wisdom, to take up the tarmac on the road outside your property, and replace it with quaint old fachioned cobblestones, you will have absolutely no say whatsoever in the decision, AND, you will have the very great pleasure of paying for it, at €X per meter pro rata the length road front length of your property. You can be looking at a bill of a mere €3k to €5k.:D

fliball123

munchkin_utd wrote: »

well - you wouldnt be moving to the UK for cheap petrol or cheap public transport!

Irelands taxes and charges are STILL low and theres little or no water charges and no local taxes which is a bloody contrast to UK/ Europe/ US where you DO have more than just income tax + prsi.

Me and the mrs would have about 12 grand more in the pocket in Ireland compared to germany from personal taxes and charges alone - leaving aside water charges and whatnot that are not common in Ireland that we also pay.

But the point is they are not low with stealth taxes and we are in for another 4/5 years of tax increases and at the same time seeing our services diminish to what would equate to a third world country with regard to services..Anyone who has a skill or has a decent education would be mad to staying Ireland especially whiilst the gov continue with the following policies
CPA
Bank bailouts
PS increments
Maintaining the dole at its high level
Allowing PS leave with massive golden handshakes and pensions
Not incentivisiing work.
Not bringing any legal charges against Brian Cowen, Bertie ahern and other politicians who have fcuked the country up
Above point execept replace politicians with Senior civil servants, Builders and bankers

Ireland reputation is so tarnished over what has happened over the last decade..I work with a german lad and we were talking about whats going on I was saying that Ireland should default and he was saying if you do ..why should germany/troika be giving your more cash which you could also default on and then he listed the renumeration packages given to the likes of Cowen and other senior civl servants and bankers saying that to anyone from the outside looking in it looks like there are an elite that are just looking after themselves. I had no answer to that only to say that was in their contract...he then pointed to the govs policy on the bankers bonuses a year or so ago and the same shoud be applied..He was on the ball...

People say we pay very little tax I disagree and when you see what we get for this tax its an absolute outrage...Which is why I left..I am in Oz and before I get the ahh its the middle of the night over there blah blah its 9:15PM and if I want to log on here and comment thats my business when I do it...Anyway people of Ireland and living in Ireland you are always in my thoughts and prayers and I will always be proud of where I come from and I really hope one day I can bring my family back when this sh1tstorm has passed.

Manach

In Germany's case, they also have an ability to create a legion of SME/family businesses that drive its economy. The question is if this happens because of or inspiteof of their level of taxation. An irony is that the EU is supposed to allow the ease of worker movement across Europe, but by a lack of even a simple tax-paid guide from alll sources across the community this discourages movement.

Dodge

While "Not bringing any legal charges against Brian Cowen, Bertie ahern and other politicians who have fcuked the country up" might annoy you, it won't in any way effect your own personal finances (or that of the OP).

Good luck in Australia

jonnyfingers

Just want to say that I had an engineering job back in Ireland with a company that was relatively stable. I left to go to the UK, as my girlfriend could not get a job in Ireland. The job I have now is a better job and has added hugely to my CV but I essentially moved to a job with more responsibility for the same money. My girlfriend has a great job in London which is on good money but still not comparable to similar roles in Dublin.

While both our pay is pretty good I'm still worse off financially here than when I was working in Ireland. Rent is higher, fuel costs are higher due to longer commutes. Council Tax is expensive where we live. Living costs aren't really cheaper. At the end of the month after paying bills, buying food and other normal expenses I don't have much left over for spending money. I've been looking at other jobs I could take and I'm amazed to see that my current salary is more than most are offering. For example one job for ministry of defense which requires 7 years of engineering experience, a degree qualification (masters preferred) and some overseas work is only paying 28k!

But for us the move wasn't about earning more money, it was more to benefit our careers and in that case it has been a good move. Still, I wouldn't say no to a few thousand pounds extra a year!


So anyone who is employed in Ireland and is earning a good wage, I'd think twice before rushing to the UK if money is your only reason. Yes there are more jobs over here but the pay is not better, in my field of expertise at least.

Scofflaw

fliball123 wrote:

But the point is they are not low with stealth taxes

That's a claim rather than a fact. Have you an international comparison of total tax burdens to back that up?

cordially,
Scofflaw

jackiebaron

Attabear wrote: »

No, I don't think so.

I think when things are good here, there's a tendency to believe they'll always be good.

When things are bad, people think they'll never be good again.

I choose to believe that we have the ability, the intelligence and the ingenuity to be a great country one day and we need people like yourself with skills and education to stick around and make that happen.

Or maybe I'm just kidding myself.:)

Sorry to be Mr Doom but Ireland isn't coming back to prosperity anytime soon. Maybe 15 or 20 years. Now you can scratch around wasting the best years of your life in a squalid recession or you can go where the grass is greener and when the second slump of this double-dip recession kicks in this year you'll be longing for 2008 again.

fliball123

Dodge wrote: »

While "Not bringing any legal charges against Brian Cowen, Bertie ahern and other politicians who have fcuked the country up" might annoy you, it won't in any way effect your own personal finances (or that of the OP).

Good luck in Australia

You miss my point if someone like ahern was held accountable..stripped of his pension and fecked in the slammer for a year or 2 it may deter future politicians going down the same slimmy slippery route

fliball123

Scofflaw wrote: »

That's a claim rather than a fact. Have you an international comparison of total tax burdens to back that up?

cordially,
Scofflaw

There online look them up...but we pay income, USC, Stamp duty, VAT, Road, PRSI, DIRT and Carbon Tax..and coming soon to home near you a property tax and water charges and a financial transaction charge not to mention the increase in tolls..Not even touching the increase in prices in areas for insurance, Transport, Elecy, Heating, food and clothing has all risen. You cannot just put tax into the equation when dealing with the tax payer you have to look at how much they have to spend in order to survive ...which is why I got the hell out of dodge...Granted a lot of EU countries will have the same, equivilent or higher taxes...But can you name one country where the cost of living is so high aswell as paying out all of these taxes and where what you pay in tax you are provided with a piss poor return in services..

Dodge

fliball123 wrote: »

You miss my point if someone like ahern was held accountable..stripped of his pension and fecked in the slammer for a year or 2 it may deter future politicians going down the same slimmy slippery route

And my point was none of this is relevant in a thread about the economy and whether moving is an option

fliball123

Dodge wrote: »

And my point was none of this is relevant in a thread about the economy and whether moving is an option

So you think that not having politicians and bankers and the regulators being held accountable for future decsions have no relevence to our future economy??? really???

Think about it ..if say we had a time machine and when Cowen and Lenihen where being strongarmed by the bankers to put in the banking garentee...do you not think that if there was legislation or a statement at the end of the aggreement that they would lose their pension if it is misused ala Anglo??? So what I am saying every politician and any employee of the state (PS and banks) that when they make a decision let it be on paper and put in the small print "you who sign this will be personally responsible" it means that the buck will stop with someone.....and it would cut out these investigations into what happened..if the banker has to sign the same there is a trail of exactly who made the decisions..why they did make that decision and how culpable they are and how they should be punished

al28283

Considering the global economy is in trouble everywhere, where would you go?

Gumbo

fliball123 wrote: »

There online look them up...but we pay income, USC, Stamp duty, VAT, Road, PRSI, DIRT and Carbon Tax..and coming soon to home near you a property tax and water charges and a financial transaction charge not to mention the increase in tolls..

You pay none of these as you are in Australia

fliball123 wrote: »

Not even touching the increase in prices in areas for insurance, Transport, Elecy, Heating, food and clothing has all risen. You cannot just put tax into the equation when dealing with the tax payer you have to look at how much they have to spend in order to survive ...which is why I got the hell out of dodge...Granted a lot of EU countries will have the same, equivilent or higher taxes...But can you name one country where the cost of living is so high aswell as paying out all of these taxes and where what you pay in tax you are provided with a piss poor return in services..

You spent the last year on here putting down posters who claimed Irish cost of living was alot higher than the EU average, and now you use it to argue your point

You must be tired, its what....1am in Australia now.

fliball123

kceire wrote: »

You pay none of these as you are in Australia



You spent the last year on here putting down posters who claimed Irish cost of living was alot higher than the EU average, and now you use it to argue your point

You must be tired, its what....1am in Australia now.

First off I have not got to get up tomorrow I am off

Well we pay income tax at

Taxable income Tax on this income
Effective tax rate
0 – $6,000 Nil 0%
$6,001 – $37,000 15c for each $1 over $6,000 0 – 12.6%
$37,001 – $80,000 $4,650 plus 30c for each $1 over $37,000 12.6 – 21.9%
$80,001 – $180,000 $17,550 plus 37c for each $1 over $80,000 21.9 – 30.3%
$180,001 and over $54,550 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000 30.3 – 45%

We pay medicare levy 1.5% imagine that 1.5% and all your medical costs covered.

There is a superannuation - equivelent to a pension fund where everyone must pay it and the employer has to pay 9% of your wage for your pension..you are taxed on this money do. So thats the pension sorted




There is a flood levy for the damages cost by floods the guy I work with says that this will be the final year for it.

taxable income Flood levy on this income Effective tax rate
$0 – $50,000 Nil 0%
$50,001 – $100,000 $0.005 for each $1 over $50,000 0 - 0.25%
$100,001 and over $250 plus $0.01 for each $1 over $100,000 0.25 - 1%

They have a GST goods and service tax (VAT) 10% and for imports its 17.5% (duties)

Fuel tax = carbon is just under 40cent a litre

Overall I am paying less tax (these are the taxes that effect me) and I am getting paid more so its a win win no brainer for me I will be here for the foreseeable future

leggit

al28283 wrote: »

Considering the global economy is in trouble everywhere, where would you go?

China, Brazil, Australia, Canada, etc...

L1011

Australia's property bubble is about to burst and those on renewable visas will be the first to go to save Australian jobs

Most of Europe pays far higher direct tax, pays compulsary health insurance that can be higher than a decent private plan here, pays higher fuel taxes, pays local taxation, etc. They are higher in direct and "stealth" taxes than here.

fliball123

MYOB wrote: »

Australia's property bubble is about to burst and those on renewable visas will be the first to go to save Australian jobs

Most of Europe pays far higher direct tax, pays compulsary health insurance that can be higher than a decent private plan here, pays higher fuel taxes, pays local taxation, etc. They are higher in direct and "stealth" taxes than here.

Remember do Austrailia is rich in natural resources and do not depend on exports and are fairly self contained...If they do go into recession they will not be bent over a barrel for oil or the likes.

jester77

fliball123 wrote: »

Remember do Austrailia is rich in natural resources and do not depend on exports and are fairly self contained...If they do go into recession they will not be bent over a barrel for oil or the likes.

Just like they weren't when the banana crisis hit last year? Australia is no more immune than any other country.

steve9859

jonnyfingers wrote: »

Just want to say that I had an engineering job back in Ireland with a company that was relatively stable. I left to go to the UK, as my girlfriend could not get a job in Ireland. The job I have now is a better job and has added hugely to my CV but I essentially moved to a job with more responsibility for the same money. My girlfriend has a great job in London which is on good money but still not comparable to similar roles in Dublin.

While both our pay is pretty good I'm still worse off financially here than when I was working in Ireland. Rent is higher, fuel costs are higher due to longer commutes. Council Tax is expensive where we live. Living costs aren't really cheaper. At the end of the month after paying bills, buying food and other normal expenses I don't have much left over for spending money. I've been looking at other jobs I could take and I'm amazed to see that my current salary is more than most are offering. For example one job for ministry of defense which requires 7 years of engineering experience, a degree qualification (masters preferred) and some overseas work is only paying 28k!

But for us the move wasn't about earning more money, it was more to benefit our careers and in that case it has been a good move. Still, I wouldn't say no to a few thousand pounds extra a year!


So anyone who is employed in Ireland and is earning a good wage, I'd think twice before rushing to the UK if money is your only reason. Yes there are more jobs over here but the pay is not better, in my field of expertise at least.

And that's everything that was wrong with Ireland. Pay was too high (and still is), taxes too low. Ireland will catch up soon enough, and then you will be better off with your career enhancement in the UK

jased10s

i think a lot more people would leave if they were not prisioners in their own home due to negative equity.

At least we are prisioners that get some time outside , oh i forgot we only go to work to pay more taxes

I wouldent mind all the taxes if we got a decent service in return, €60 for doctors , pay the fireman , pay bins yourself , pay estate charges , pay dentist , pay usc , pay for ambulance, ect...
and then asked to pay a €100 house charge and also water charges coming down the line. And a carbon charge - wtf , do the gouverment pay the atmosphere the carbon charge they collect?

The gouverment of ireland couldent run a tap.

L1011

If you're worried about paying fire brigade charges, you're going to have some fun paying for the house repairs because clearly you have no house insurance.

If you're paying €60 for a GP visit, CHANGE DOCTORS. There is no need to pay this amount anywhere in the country.

"Estate charges" are down to wanting to live in a gated community and not a normal estate.

If people complained about things that they can't change rather than things that they either car, or are their own fault, it'd help.

jased10s

MYOB wrote: »

If you're worried about paying fire brigade charges, you're going to have some fun paying for the house repairs because clearly you have no house insurance.

If you're paying €60 for a GP visit, CHANGE DOCTORS. There is no need to pay this amount anywhere in the country.

"Estate charges" are down to wanting to live in a gated community and not a normal estate.

If people complained about things that they can't change rather than things that they either car, or are their own fault, it'd help.

MYOB i would get your cristal ball looked at as it's clearly malfunctioning.

I think you will find that you must have household insurance if you have brought a house.

Also €60 euro is the norm for a GP visit and my doctor is very good and i have a 10year history going to him , so would not change to another doctor who does not know my history to save maybe €10. My point is doctors are very expensive and going to the HSE is a joke.

As to estate charges for a gated estate then you are also very wrong. Most private estates have a charge to cover lighting / water pumps / grounds work / sinkage fund / insurance ect. The local council would supply these on a council estate ( and not to a high standard ). I think you will find most private estates have this charge as it's written into the contract when purchasing.

My point is we have loads of gouverment charges and soon to be implemented charges and get very little in return.

Hootanany

IT is a semi skilled job pushing buttons for a living get real

Sleepy

lol.

By that reckoning all construction jobs would be unskilled as all it involves is digging holes and layin' blocks on top of each other