Top 10 heavies ever, opinions

cowzerp

What's your top 10

Muhammad Ali
Evander Holyfield
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Vitali Klitschko
Larry Holmes
Riddock Bowe
Joe Louis
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson


Ok after trying to figure out my top 10 I decided to put in Mike Tyson And omitted jack Dempsey at the last minute, I've also put Bowe ahead of Patterson as he 43 wins and only 1 loss to Holyfield and he Beat him twice, Bowe could of been number 1 if he had the ambition to be.

dinorebel

How can you have Klitschko and Bowe but not Lewis?

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

What's your top 10


Muhammad Ali
Muhammad Ali
Evander Holyfield
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Vitali Klitschko
Larry Holmes
Riddock Bowe
Joe Louis
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson


Ok after trying to figure out my top 10 I decided to put in Mike Tyson And omitted jack Dempsey at the last minute, I've also put Bowe ahead of Patterson as he 43 wins and only 1 loss to Holyfield and he Beat him twice, Bowe could of been number 1 if he had the ambition to be.

what's the basis of liston being above tyson, frazier, bowe?? thats mad

klitschko above bowe??? no way

klitschko above holmes?? no way

joe louis so low??

tryingmybestt

Louis
Ali
Foreman
Holyfield
Holmes
Marciano
Lewis
Frazier
Dempsey
Liston or Tyson

cowzerp

tryingmybestt wrote: »

what's the basis of liston being above tyson, frazier, bowe?? thats mad

klitschko above bowe??? no way

klitschko above holmes?? no way

joe louis so low??

Klitschko is 43-2-0 with 40 ko's
Bowe is 43-1 and 1 nc with 33 ko's

Holmes is great, but record wise below Vitali

You have Dempsey who lost 6 and drew 9 in and Lewis who was been well beat by Vitali and has an inferior record and beat most his names when they where washed up, it's opinions and that's my reasoning

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

Klitschko is 43-2-0 with 40 ko's
Bowe is 43-1 and 1 nc with 33 ko's

Holmes is great, but record wise below Vitali

You have Dempsey who lost 6 and drew 9 in and Lewis who was been well beat by Vitali and has an inferior record and beat most his names when they where washed up, it's opinions and that's my reasoning

so your basing your list on their record alone!! thats crazy

you have to take into account their opposition, performance, physical and mental attributes, performance when faced with adversity etc.

it can't be just based on their record....if that's the case Hopkins is the greates MW of all time and he's not....or Maricano is the greatest HW....why isn't he number 1 on your list??

also lewis beat vitali....and was lewis' last fight well past his peak and vitali was unknown and probably underestimated

cowzerp

tryingmybestt wrote: »

so your basing your list on their record alone!! thats crazy

yes that would be crazy, but I never said I was doing that!

Vitali was a better boxer than Lewis and would beat him even now if Lewis could go back to his peak. Cuts beat Vitali and everyone knows he was winning the fight, Lewis promised the rematch and bottled it.

And your basing yours on-no way

Ps. Bowe beat Holyfield, Mathis and Tony tubbs so not near as good as vitalis record

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

Klitschko is 43-2-0 with 40 ko's
Bowe is 43-1 and 1 nc with 33 ko's

Holmes is great, but record wise below Vitali

surely the above statement shows your basing your list on record !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

Vitali was a better boxer than Lewis and would beat him even now if Lewis could go back to his peak.

yes vitali was winning fight but lewis was at the end of his career, it was his last fight....would you say McBride is better than Tyson because he beat him at end of his career?

Lewis was the better boxer than vitali....Vlad is a better boxer than vitali....vitali has a granite chin and great power....he is much more mechanical than lewis

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

Ps. Bowe beat Holyfield, Mathis and Tony tubbs so not near as good as vitalis record

Yes Bowe beat Holyfield....and Holyfield is number 2 on your list !!!!

I'm not just basing it on record....Bowe was one of the best inside fighters...he had great speed, power, jab

Bowe at peak would take vitali apart !

cowzerp

tryingmybestt wrote: »

Yes Bowe beat Holyfield....and Holyfield is number 2 on your list !!!!

I'm not just basing it on record....Bowe was one of the best inside fighters...he had great speed, power, jab

Bowe at peak would take vitali apart !

1st off Bowe is 1 of my favourite fighters so I'm not arguing against him, 2nd Klitschko is 1 of the best outside fighters ever and 3rd you said records not only point that it's who they fought, Bowe did not beat many top fighters in reality or as I said could have been number 1.

cowzerp

tryingmybestt wrote: »

surely the above statement shows your basing your list on record !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No you asked why as if it was crazy, this shows it's clearly not, also Vitali beat most who are ranked and has more or less fought all comers, something most fighters on the list can't say.

He is the most underrated heavy ever.

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

1st off Bowe is 1 of my favourite fighters so I'm not arguing against him, 2nd Klitschko is 1 of the best outside fighters ever and 3rd you said records not only point that it's who they fought, Bowe did not beat many top fighters in reality or as I said could have been number 1.

yes bowe did not fight enough other great ppl to be considered the best....similar reasons why tyson, holmes etc. are not higher

regardless of that he IMO is still higher than klitschko ....who did vitali beat that was so good and better than holyfield?

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

No you asked why as if it was crazy, this shows it's clearly not, also Vitali beat most who are ranked and has more or less fought all comers, something most fighters on the list can't say.

He is the most underrated heavy ever.

i don't agree that you canbase it just on record !

vitali won't be properly rated until he retires....when he retires he will be rated properly...

but who did he fight...he's boring to watch...no charisma....so why rate him high...boxing is about entertainment....he doesn't entertain and thats why he won't rate high....he's mechanical and boring

vitali probably fought the worst opposition of any long reigning HW champion...either him or his brother...not one career defining fight

cowzerp

Vitali beat Adamek, solis, Briggs, Sosnowski, Samuel Peter, His last 10 opponents lost a combined 16 fights altogether, and before that was Lewis and wheter you agree or not he came out of that with prestige

His opposition is top of the game, there not in the papers but Russians etc don't tend to be in the papers

Lewis beat a past it Tyson and Holyfield and pretty much no 1 else of note.

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

Vitali beat Adamek, solis, Briggs, Sosnowski, Samuel Peter, His last 10 opponents lost a combined 16 fights altogether, and before that was Lewis and wheter you agree or not he came out of that with prestige

His opposition is top of the game, there not in the papers but Russians etc don't tend to be in the papers

Lewis beat a past it Tyson and Holyfield and pretty much no 1 else of note.

exactly thats who vitali beat and who of them are very good or excellent fighters??

lewis beat: ruddock, bruno, McCall, Morrison, Tucker, Tyson, Biggs, Weaver, Mercer, Golota, Briggs (when briggs in prime, not past it when against vitali), holyfiedl twice (draw was a joke), tua, Botha, grant, rachman, vitali etc.

now please please don't tell me vitali fought the better opponents !!!

you don't agree lewis was past it when he fought vitali?

also add to the mix that lewis beat every man he ever fought and he was last undisputed champ!

IMO definitely ranks much higher than vitali so far....vitali is not finished yet so we can't fairly rank him now

walshb

Not who would beat who, etc, just best champions:

Ali
Marciano
Louis
Tyson
Foreman
Holmes
Holyfield
Lewis
Dempsey
Liston.

Best men in terms of fantasy fights, as in overall the best and those I believe who on any given night would be the best. BTW, all names below may well suffer an L or more in a fantasy tourny, but overall I believe a peak Ali scores the highest, with Mike a close second.

Ali, Tyson, Bowe, Foreman, Liston, Marciano, Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, Louis.

HW I have recently started to really be impressed with and rate, Liston. A beast. So strong, solid, composed, skillful, tough and heavy hitting off both wings.

sxt

walshb wrote: »

Best men in terms of fantasy fights, as in overall the best and those I believe who on any given night would be the best. BTW, all names below may well suffer an L or more in a fantasy tourny, but overall I believe a peak Ali scores the highest, with Mike a close second.

Ali, Tyson, Bowe, Foreman, Liston, Marciano, Holmes, Holyfield, Lewis, Louis.

HW I have recently started to really be impressed with and rate, Liston. A beast. So strong, solid, composed, skillful, tough and heavy hitting off both wings.

How do you see a small fighter like Marciano beating someone like Vitali ? Vit who is 60- 70 ilbs heavier ,a more intelligent fighter? who has never been knocked out, and has never been behind in a fight, or, Holmes, lewis etc

walshb

sxt wrote: »

How do you see a small fighter like Marciano beating someone like Vitali ? Vit who is 60- 70 ilbs heavier ,a more intelligent fighter? who has never been knocked out, and has never been behind in a fight, or, Holmes, lewis etc

I don't really rate Vit all that high, but yes, a difficult match for anyone, and just outside my top ten. He would be a very difficult match for Rocky, agreed.

It's all subjective. Vit in a fantasy tourny is also just outside my top ten. With the size, power, chin, and ability to cause any of the ten big problems.

I am a firm believer in a good big one beats a good little one. But, that applies when both are good/great. I rate Rocky as great, Vitali as very good.
Now, that could still see Vit win, due to that big size advantage, but Rocky to me can win here too due to my view that he is great.

If Vitali was great, as in if I thought this, I would back him quite confidently, juts like I back Tyson vs. Rocky. Tyson to me at his best was better than any version of Vitali.

An aging past peak Lewis did beat Viatli, cuts or not. I think a prime Lewis does the trick most times. Vitali may get a win or two from ten bouts, but I would rate Lewis better overall, and better head to head.

Just to add, you claim Vit was a more intelligent fighter? How so? Does boxing have a defined explanation of what is intelligence in a fighter?

Vit was not as rugged or rough and tough as Rocky style wise, he was more a thinker, hit and don't be hit fighter; does not make him any more intelligent a fighter. 49/0 is not to me a fighter who one could say is not as intelligent as Vitali. Both used their talents and bodies to the best of their abilities.

cowzerp

It's worth noting Lewis was a better fighter at the end of his career, he was very average while in his peak years, I think he was always v average anyway but beat some names that where not near there best when they fought, ie Tyson and Holyfield

Vitali has better win ratio, ko ratio and his 2 losses where by shoulder injury and cuts and he beat all comers, so we may disagree on who is better but stats are in my favour, the fact people don't know boxing and specifically boxing outside of English speaking countries or that would not have been regularly on British television does not make the boxers now any poorer than any other era.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Lewis beat a past it Tyson and Holyfield and pretty much no 1 else of note.

I disagree. Lewis to me gets serious kudos for meeting anyone and everyone around. He also stepped back in the ring with two men who whacked him, and avenged both. Amazing character and courage.

Who did Holyfield beat? Past it Tyson. You know, one can diss anyone if they really try. Lewis met a host of fighters.

Holyfield isn't getting major praise for beating Holmes aged 42, or Foreman. Folks diss Mike for beating Holmes, that was 1988. And Mike destroyed him.
Holyfield met a 42 year old Holmes in 1992 I think, and Holmes gave a good account.

First real real test and Holyfield lost convincingly to Bowe. Bowe pretty much wanted no part of Lewis.

Lewis clearly beat Holyfiled in that first fight. Clearly.

Then when he was clearly past it he stepped into the ring with Vitali. A big talented fighter, and Lewis won the fight.

I rate Holyfield high, but if we can diss Lewis by saying he met nobody of note, then what about Evander, who you rate so high?

I am almost tempted to switch Holyfield and Lewis in my ratings.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Who did Holyfield beat? Past it Tyson. You know, one can diss anyone if they really try. Lewis met a host of fighters.

1sy off Holyfield was older than Tyson and was banned from Boxing for having a dodgy ticker, he came back from that and beat Tyson who was the bigger man and i don't think he was that past it then anyway-Holyfiel was just a horrible fight for him, great chin, heart and endurance, add to this great skill and a good boxing brain and he would have beat Tyson any time.

He also beat Bowe who was younger, bigger and stronger than him, considering he was a blown up cruiser that is crazy.

Also remove him if you want but if the most succesful cruiser and heavy weight ever is not on your list then i think it's beyond silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BH6LvUS__M

lewis v Klitschko reminder

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

1sy off Holyfield was older than Tyson and was banned from Boxing for having a dodgy ticker, he came back from that and beat Tyson who was the bigger man and i don't think he was that past it then anyway-Holyfiel was just a horrible fight for him, great chin, heart and endurance, add to this great skill and a good boxing brain and he would have beat Tyson any time.

Also remove him if you want but if the most succesful cruiser and heavy weight ever is not on your list then i think it's beyond silly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BH6LvUS__M

lewis v Klitschko reminder

I didn't say remove, I said switch!

BTW, what about the rest of my post? Bowe not really wanting Lewis. Lewis clearly beating Holyfield?

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

I didn't say remove, I said switch!

BTW, what about the rest of my post? Bowe not really wanting Lewis. Lewis clearly beating Holyfield?

Bowe in the grand scheme of things was heartless-he was better than lewis in every area but did not want to fight, the Trilogy with Evander is all that saves his legacy-in my opinion he is the most wasted heavyweight fighter ever.

And the 1st fight that was a draw, i called that at the time, because quite frankly he did not do enough to convince anyone that he won and beat the champ, and evender was the champ in there with 2 belts.

I cant remember but i think Holyfield might have even been robbed the next fight, this was due to the backlash from the original match.

I don't remember any domination, and again, Holyfield was smaller, old and after heart problems. because he's still going people think he must have been near peak then, which he was not.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Bowe in the grand scheme of things was heartless-he was better than lewis in every area but did not want to fight, the Trilogy with Evander is all that saves his legacy-in my opinion he is the most wasted heavyweight fighter ever.

And the 1st fight that was a draw, i called that at the time, because quite frankly he did not do enough to convince anyone that he won and beat the champ, and evender was the champ in there with 2 belts.

I cant remember but i think Holyfield might have even been robbed the next fight, this was due to the backlash from the original match.

I don't remember any domination, and again, Holyfield was smaller, old and after heart problems. because he's still going people think he must have been near peak then, which he was not.

Well, if that is the way you saw fight 1, okey doke. To me it was a blatant robbery, and to so many others too. Fight two was closer, yes, but no way was it a robbery. Lewis did enough. Evander fought better, but one couldn't confidently say it was a robbery.

But, I still think the best Holyfield could beat the best Lewis. Holyfield was to me more past it in 1999 than Lewis, and p4p I rate Holyfield better.

I want to be fair and diplomatic when I assess any man. So, the actual fight I saw Lewis a clear cut winner. But, when we look deeper I see Holyfield as clearly being more past it than Lewis, and I think p4p Holyfield ranks higher.

Holyfield from 1990-1992 vs. Lewis from 1992-1994? Love to see it, and would think Holyfield could well win. 5-5 over a ten fight series?

To Bowe. I, like you rate the guy very high in a one to one, and I also would back him vs. Lewis. But, to me the man showed a lack of real character when he preferred to throw away his belt rather than avenge his Olympic loss. Real real champs seek out their conqueror and want to avenge. Lewis showed that trait in abundance, and that to me is very special. Lewis went to the ends of the earth to beat his conquerors.

cowzerp

Bren the 1st fight while if i was judge i would give it to Lewis i know how Boxing is scored and you cant scrape rounds v the champ, i know both held belts but Evander had the 2 belts and was the champ if ya know what i mean Plus it was in the states so even more reason why you need to do that bit more-i know it should not come into it but it does.

The 2nd fight if i recall Holyfield was landing more power shots and Lewis more jabs-many people felt Holyfield done enough to win that 1 but the judges in fairness where under a lot of pressure after the last 1 and the backlash. either way there was no domination either time.

Apart from that i agree with your post overall.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Bren the 1st fight while if i was judge i would give it to Lewis i know how Boxing is scored and you cant scrape rounds v the champ, i know both held belts but Evander had the 2 belts and was the champ if ya know what i mean Plus it was in the states so even more reason why you need to do that bit more-i know it should not come into it but it does.

The 2nd fight if i recall Holyfield was landing more power shots and Lewis more jabs-many people felt Holyfield done enough to win that 1 but the judges in fairness where under a lot of pressure after the last 1 and the backlash. either way there was no domination either time.

Apart from that i agree with your post overall.

I too am a firm believer in the challenger taking the belts. Thing is, I thought Lewis did, and cleanly too.;)

Lewis I believe suffered a lot because for his size and physical advantages, he seemd to be content a lot of the time to just stay ahead. He never really went and took the fights by the scruff, using that size and advantage fully. He was to many, "boring." Now, of course there were fights where he was very aggressive, but many times he preferred to eek out a win, and be quite cautious, against men who were physically his inferior. The U.S. did not like this.

He dwarfed Holyfield, and beat him clearly, but still aired on the side of caution too much for the fans. Really, he should have absolutely dominated that version of Holyfield.

It's a great thread because one can look at it from so many angles.

tryingmybestt

p4p holyfield clearly ranks higher than lewis, no doubt IMO

if both in prime and they fight i find it hard to pick holyfield as lewis is so much bigger...close one to pick but i'd run with lewis....in saying that i still rank holyfield higher

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

Bowe in the grand scheme of things was heartless-he was better than lewis in every area but did not want to fight,





anyone who watched the fight with evander could never call bowe heartless....thats very harsh

we don't know why he didnt fight lewis....he had problems with the law and also his manager rock newman didnt want the fight because it was a fight he could lose and therefore lose future money....it wasn't bowe's decision.....he wasnt great for staying in shape, that was his downfall

definitely not heartless IMO

walshb

Not wanting to answer for Paul, but I think what he was getting at was that Bowe maybe showed a lack of balls/heart in regards to the Lewis "fight."

There could be several reasosn why he chose to vacate rather than fight, but, again, us mere mortals who are not privy to all the facts will see what we see. I jutst can't imagine true champions, greats, not wanting to revenge a loss. I know it was in the ams, but still, it was a bad loss. For us fans who are just fans, Bowe's actions seemed to imply that he wanted no part of LL during that time.

Lewis gets such kudos from me for his character and courage and willingness to fight anyone. That is what separates good from great champs.

tryingmybestt

walshb wrote: »

Best men in terms of fantasy fights, as in overall the best and those I believe who on any given night would be the best. BTW, all names below may well suffer an L or more in a fantasy tourny, but overall I believe a peak Ali scores the highest, with Mike a close second.

Ali, Tyson, Bowe, Foreman, Liston, Marciano, Holmes, Lewis, Holyfield, Louis.

IMO tyson never beats foreman...foreman hits too hard and is too big and strong....he is all wrong for tyson.....foremans chin is granite and a key weapon would be his thunderous jab to keep tyson at bay....another key weapon would be foremans heaviest punch , the uppercut as tyson comes in....boom and its over

I don't see marciano beatin gany of the big guys like lewis, klitschko, bowe etc......too much of size difference....against tyson maybe

i'd also have liston beating tyson and holyfield

tryingmybestt

walshb wrote: »

Not wanting to answer for Paul, but I think what he was getting at was that Bowe maybe showed a lack of balls/heart in regards to the Lewis "fight."

There could be several reasosn why he chose to vacate rather than fight, but, again, us mere mortals who are not privy to all the facts will see what we see. I jutst can't imagine true champions, greats, not wanting to revenge a loss. I know it was in the ams, but still, it was a bad loss. For us fans who are just fans, Bowe's actions seemed to imply that he wanted no part of LL during that time.

Lewis gets such kudos from me for his character and courage and willingness to fight anyone. That is what separates good from great champs.

from what i've always read is that bowe's manager rock newman wouldn't make the fight and bowe wanted it

yes lesis was great in that he fought everyone

i just don't see how a fighter like bowe is ever called heartless....his fight with holyfield was one of the best in history and he showed great guts and heart....the opposite to heartless......some ppl looking from the outside could say for example vitali is hearltess because he won't fight haye.....that wouldn't make sense...the public will never know the real story

walshb

To get behind your point about Foreman-Tyson, of all the men I do think 1970s Foreman is the biggest threat to the 1986 Tyson.

Liston I see beating many of them. Too powerful for Evander. Tyson and Liston? Wow. I will go with Mike on points or late stoppage.
That is why Liston is ranked ten on my list, but 5 when I created the fantasy tournament list.

As I said, so many angles, and so many styles, all makes for so many permutations and views.

tryingmybestt

i would definitely have louis higher

i feel he beats marciano, tyson, liston, holmes, holyfield, lewis....

i think against ali would be tough and i don't see him beating formeman....

louis loved fighting bigger men like max baer one of the hardest hitters ever

walshb

tryingmybestt wrote: »

i would definitely have louis higher

i feel he beats marciano, tyson, liston, holmes, holyfield, lewis....

i think against ali would be tough and i don't see him beating formeman....

louis loved fighting bigger men like max baer one of the hardest hitters ever

We've had our share of ding dong debates about Joe. Beautiful hitter, power, accuracy etc. Just to me the feet and the fact that I think when whacked clean by some geats, I fear he won't react well. I know you believe his chin to be solid. I don't. I also know you gave reasons why you believe this. Good ones too.

But, when one looks at megadodge's post on the Tyson-Louis fantasy fight, it's hard to disagree with it.

tryingmybestt

walshb wrote: »

We've had our share of ding dong debates about Joe. Beautiful hitter, power, accuracy etc. Just to me the feet and the fact that I think when whacked clean by some geats, I fear he won't react well. I know you believe his chin to be solid. I don't. I also know you gave reasons why you believe this. Good ones too.

But, when one looks at megadodge's post on the Tyson-Louis fantasy fight, it's hard to disagree with it.

actually i feel megadodge talks a lot of sense in general

for me p4p louis was the best....but taking into account the size difference he would not beat everyone, especially foreman etc.

Worztron

cowzerp wrote: »

What's your top 10
Muhammad Ali
Evander Holyfield
George Foreman
Sonny Liston
Vitali Klitschko
Larry Holmes
Riddock Bowe
Joe Louis
Joe Frazier
Mike Tyson

Why no Rocky Marciano?

cowzerp

Worztron wrote: »

Why no Rocky Marciano?

Look at his record and the amount of lads he fight coming of losses, Of his 49 fights only 18 where coming off a win, only 7 where coming off more than a 2 win streak in his whole career.

Add to this his poor technique and slow feet and average speed hands and I just don't rate him, all on my list beat him soundly in my opinion.

He beat Louis who looked so faded he makes Evander look good now, Archie Moore was a LH and Ezzard Charles was coming off 2 losses and lost 4 of 6 and still got a title shot which he won so he's not impressive.

Then he retired at 32 unbeaten, after beating small or poor men that would not be anywhere in a best ever heavy category at the times of there fights.

tryingmybestt

cowzerp wrote: »

Then he retired at 32 unbeaten, after beating small or poor men that would not be anywhere in a best ever heavy category at the times of there fights.

'small' men he beat were similar or bigger than him...

p4p rocky is right up there and when considering his reign as champion he must be up there too as he fought everyone in his era and he was unbeaten with a great ko%

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Look at his record and the amount of lads he fight coming of losses, Of his 49 fights only 18 where coming off a win, only 7 where coming off more than a 2 win streak in his whole career.

Add to this his poor technique and slow feet and average speed hands and I just don't rate him, all on my list beat him soundly in my opinion.

He beat Louis who looked so faded he makes Evander look good now, Archie Moore was a LH and Ezzard Charles was coming off 2 losses and lost 4 of 6 and still got a title shot which he won so he's not impressive.

Then he retired at 32 unbeaten, after beating small or poor men that would not be anywhere in a best ever heavy category at the times of there fights.

Ali fought Archie a good 7 years after Rocky. Just saying!

p4p he is a monster!

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Ali fought Archie a good 7 years after Rocky. Just saying!

p4p he is a monster!

Archie was great, but a LH

Fact is he beat people with lots of losses and his 2 best wins where against the super faded Louis and LH Moore

tryingmybestt

everyone can accept rocky's opposition wasn't a1...but considering he beat evryone ine his era, retired unbeaten with the highest ko % means he was good....and p4p he was very good considering his small size

if rocky fought great opposition and still had these stats he would be number 1 HW of all time....but most ppl mark him down because of his opposition and rightly so.....in saying that he should still be a top 10 p4p Heavyweight champion considering his record and he fought everyone in his era

cowzerp

tryingmybestt wrote: »

everyone can accept rocky's opposition wasn't a1...but considering he beat evryone ine his era, retired unbeaten with the highest ko % means he was good....and p4p he was very good considering his small size

if rocky fought great opposition and still had these stats he would be number 1 HW of all time....but most ppl mark him down because of his opposition and rightly so.....in saying that he should still be a top 10 p4p Heavyweight champion considering his record and he fought everyone in his era

That's all fair enough, Calzaghe also retired unbeaten but I don't rate him top 10 super middle ever either, it's just my opinion and opposition aside I just don't like his skills. Or Calzaghes for that matter

tryingmybestt

i presume your joking about calzaghe not being in the top 10 SMW

walshb

tryingmybestt wrote: »

i presume your joking about calzaghe not being in the top 10 SMW

He's not.

tryingmybestt

walshb wrote: »

He's not.

if he's not joking that is a joke !!

he must have something against unbeaten records lol

Calzaghe must be top 3, a lot put number 1

not even top 10 doesn't make sense

tryingmybestt

top 6 SMW's

Calzaghe, Benn, Eubank, Jones, Collins, Toney not in order

walshb

tryingmybestt wrote: »

top 6 SMW's

Calzaghe, Benn, Eubank, Jones, Collins, Toney not in order

That is your list, not his. The "doesn't make sense," and "if he's not joking that is a joke" comment in your other post is what at times can sound argumentative, and dismissive. To you it may not make sense. cowzerp does not rate Joe. And labelling his view as a joke, again, not the best way to put it. Aren't we all mates here? Sorry, but it comes across as, "I know best and my view is superior to yours." BTW, I know I too can be guilty of this. Everyone can.

Don't forget, Ward, Kessler, Froch, Bute and some Germans also need to be considered.

Joe rates very high to me. Top three.

tryingmybestt

walshb wrote: »

That is your list, not his. The "doesn't make sense," and "if he's not joking that is a joke" comment in your other post is what at times can sound argumentative, and dismissive. To you it may not make sense. cowzerp does not rate Joe. And labelling his view as a joke, again, not the best way to put it. Aren't we all mates here? Sorry, but it comes across as, "I know best and my view is superior to yours." BTW, I know I too can be guilty of this. Everyone can.

Don't forget, Ward, Kessler, Froch, Bute and some Germans also need to be considered.

Joe rates very high to me. Top three.

i would rate the 6 i gave above kessler, froch etc.....we have to see what ward and froch can still do....

i don't think you need to jump on the bandwagon when i debate with others.....your being a little cry baby

c'mon

you seem to have cowzerp at the top of any of your lists

walshb

Just pointing out that we all don't have to agree on speculative stuff, and that in disagreeing it doesn't necessarily make one view a joke, or senseless, that is all. Not sure what the cry baby comment will achieve. I am only wanting to try and debate maturely.

Joe still top three.

tryingmybestt

walshb wrote: »

Just pointing out that we all don't have to agree on speculative stuff, and that in disagreeing it doesn't necessarily make one view a joke, or senseless, that is all.

i'm not saying anything nasty...i was saying the fact that calzaghe is not top 10 SMW is a joke....considering he is regarded as number one...that should be regardless of ones opinion of ones style....u should be subjective even if you dont like their style

anyway its a boxing forum...i dont think everyone is so sensitive