Higher tax for older cars.......

tinyjiney

:eek:.....not the case at the moment, but with the amount of early to mid 90's cars i've noticed around recently dont be suprised if the SIMI start putting pressure on some knobsworth in the DOE to impose a higher road tax on older cars (because of the enviroment, of course :rolleyes:) to get us into newer friendly ones......could drive all the classics off the road altogether.....it will could happen...;)

corktina

i thought it already happened...

carchaeologist

Exactly? They are already being raped as it is. Not sure I understand what your getting at?

irishben

I thought thats what the NCT was for??

tinyjiney

What im getting at is that if the powers that be see that the revenue is falling as a result of lower new car sales they wont be long about punishing Joe driving around in his 94 corolla ..i.e maybe an extra €50/100 a year for every year over say 10 years...
Are you forgetting how they got rid of all our own classic cars...scrappage scheme or carethnic cleansing.......:p

corktina

older cars already attract higher Motor tax than new cars....:rolleyes:

my 1.6 Sierra costs about the same for 3 months as my wifes 1.6 Fiesta costs for a year

Big Nasty

On the other hand my daily costs 33 times more to tax than my weekend car!:eek::eek::eek:

da_hambo

Indeed my 83 dmc 12 costs 1300 a year on tax for a car that does about 500 miles a year max .dont understand the logic.uk? Vintage tax =car over 25 years. Ripofflic of Ireland...sure its grand lads, we ll just add on another five years make that 30 years old for vintage.roll on next jan.

corktina

it is 30 years.... never has been 25. UK is pre 1973

MercMad

I happen to know of several W140 S-Class' that are being scrapped purely due to the fact that the tax is so high. These cars were over 100k new but are worthless despite being still fantastic cars.

I think they should lower the tax rate rule and allow 20 year old cars to be taxed at half the current rate. It would prevent cars from being unnecessarily scrapped, it does take energy to go and collect them and scrap them, and they could be used for years to come. There are way too many new cars being manufactured nowdays and THAT is a serious waste of energy.

Dades

That would imply that our tax system is based on something other than earning tax dollars. More scrappage = more VRT.

Still want to be green? How about we up the rates for Class A cars in the budget by 50%! That'll teach you to not pay enough fuel excise!

hi5

Most of the green policies were introduced when the green party were in power.
This government seem more interested in economic policies than green policies for obvious reasons,so you would think they would try to keep down imports
As all cars are originally imported it makes economic sense to maintain the existing stock.
So it doesn't make sense to send hard earned money out of the country for consumable goods that are all wrongly encouraged to only last 10 years.
That money could be put towards developing indigenous industries.
For some reason the SIMI have the governments ear bent when it comes to making decisions!...short term gain of taxes and employment I suppose,governments dont do long term:(

johnf2020

I had to press my 505 into daily service since loosing my job a week ago. The company car went--first time without one in 12 years. I had the give the feckers €250 for 3 months. €250 I couldn't really afford but had to because I couldn't afford to buy a newer car,,:(

Actually, there are a lot of people out there who cannot afford to buy a post 2008 car to avail of cheaper road tax and these people are really being screwed now.

Kenny Logins

johnf2020 wrote: »

I had to press my 505 into daily service since loosing my job a week ago. The company car went--first time without one in 12 years. I had the give the feckers €250 for 3 months. €250 I couldn't really afford but had to because I couldn't afford to buy a newer car,,:(

Actually, there are a lot of people out there who cannot afford to buy a post 2008 car to avail of cheaper road tax and these people are really being screwed now.

Yeah, the new tax system was great news for those that can afford a new 5 series.

SilverBell

hi5 wrote: »

consumable goods that are all wrongly encouraged to only last 10 years.

And that's how cars are now viewed by many! Unfortunately!
That is where not only the motor trade, the government, and the automotive economy stands, but where all of capitalism stands, not on buying a car and keeping it forever, but by changing every few years.

superfly35

Oh last that tax business is a absolutely crazy and drive me bananas!!!
It does not make any sense any more it is way to high, it only helps people with money and or the bank as you could get a loan easily enough to by a bloody car.

Arf I should probably go to bed. I sold my daily driver in the week for the same price as I bought my moped when I was 14 years old. I am afraid the country is not going to get better.

I will go to bed as it will depress me otherwise.

1lan

This post has been somewhat of a revelation to me.

kiki

On the scrapage scheme,

Can anyone explain how taking a perfectly working piece of machinery and crushing it and replacing it with another new machine (imported btw) makes us better off economically ? For every new car sold the government take a slice of tax, so they are happy, (they can even afford to pay for the scrappage scheme from the tax taken) but an even bigger slice of cash leaves the country to pay workers overseas to make the new car. Encouraging this by tax breaks has to be described as simple madness.

While I dont think we should end up like what I heard Cuba was like with really old cars everywhere, we should do the opposite to the scrapage scheme and encourage people to service older cars and keep them roadworthy and in daily service, up to the point where economics makes sense for people to decide to trade / buy new. Let people decide for them selves, but dont encourage them to send money overseas...

Really angry re road tax, the incentives to people are totally screwed up, yes we should buy more fuel efficient cars when buying new, and if fuel conservation is the central issue, put the tax on the fuel, not ownership of the car - if fuel went up by 20c a litre to pay for a zero rate of motor tax then people could decide for themselves how much they needed to drive or how efficient a car they buy or keep based on their own needs. We could save a stack of money too - or even redeploy all the people who do nothing other than administer motor tax to other more worthy tasks on behalf of the public, as we already collect tax from fuel - so no increased effort there.

Government need to take a serious look at how we can be smart and do this better, simpler and with the correct incentives to let people make their own decisions based on their need for transport and how they fill that need.

Woody

corktina

once a car reaches 30 years old there is a special very low rate of tax applicable. This is some bit of incentive to keep old cars but it should be extended ,as you say, to encourage people to keep old cars on the road.

Not only would this make sense economically but also in green terms too. Updating cars mechanically to better emissions standards is perfectly possible also and persons doing this could have consessions in their tax rate also.

I don't agree with you on adding to the fuel VAT to pay the motor tax though. I think you are merely volunteering for an extra tax, after a short period the Government would re-introduce Motor Tax in a new guise and you'd be paying twice. Also, do you really think that as little as 20c would be added to the litre? Even if the amount was this low, how long do you think before it was increased dramatically?

carchaeologist

So called 'Green' policys mean fcuk all to this Government unless it will raise them money.

Money and revenue is all that matters in LaLa land. If it comes across as a 'Green' policy, its purely incidental and is usually marketed as an incentive for the gullible idiots out there.

The scrappage scheme made money through taxes and VRT for the govenment, that was why they did it. Even though it was sold as such there was absolutly zero green advantage to it. You cannot call scrapping a perfectly servicible and NCT tested(so it is within the emission limits!!!!) older car, usualy only 12-15 years old and building a new one in its place green.

carchaeologist

The entire country has been brainwashed over the last 15 years or so due to this scrappage scheme policy causing of all of this bull**** thinking that a car approaching its 10th birthday is a dangerous wreck and has to be gotten rid of because it 'will fail the NCT'.

People driving an older car is this country are usually viewed with suspicion as people wonder why they would do such a thing.

I bought a 99 Mazda 323F recently for 150 quid as the previous owner thought it wouldnt pass the test and borrowed money to buy a newer car. 50 quid of parts and a days work later and its test ready. Im using it as a daily hack at the moment, and for all of its 170k its driving as well as it did 12 years ago. If i hadnt bought it it would be cubic by now.

Go to any scrapyard and look at the piles of 12-14 year old cars there seemingly scrapped usually for no reason other than they are 'old', or ''Will cost too much to put thought the test!''. But the same people will happily borrow X amount of money over X amount of years to buy something that is depriciating much faster than the APR is being paid... Its only when you see the waste condensed like this you realise what is actually going on in the country even still in these recesssionary times.

corktina

the only reason cars "cost too much" to put through the NCT is that their owners have run them into the ground without even doing basic servicing. The Irish are not good at looking after their cars!

The thing that used to kill old cars was rust. It really is not a huge issue now, modern (ie 10 year old -thats modern to me ) cars are generally sound body-wise and mechanical bits should be easy to upgrade.

hi5

Its not just Ireland ,its the whole world.
We're all just consumers,they need to keep making stuff and we need to keep buying it.
If people haven't the money, then you loan it to them, hence the current economic mess the world is in.
It doesn't matter whether its cars ,mobile phones,tv's they all must be upgraded regardless of working or not.
The wheels of industry need to keep turning, but the cracks are starting to show.

maidhc

This maddens me. I have a perfectly good 190e 2.6 that would be a perfect daily driver if it didn't cost 1200 to tax! If was 600 I would have no issues paying.

superfly35

About a year ago, I went to the scrap to look for parts for my 1997 clio and the scrapman simply told me that my car was too old.

At this stage all of them have been crushed. He told me older 10 years old the car are crutch here.

It is crazy really but it is the way, I know people getting scared about 10 years old car. It is a pity that the motor tax is killing the industry because it would make great cars for guys like us.

I would drive some tasty car.;)

carchaeologist

maidhc wrote: »

This maddens me. I have a perfectly good 190e 2.6 that would be a perfect daily driver if it didn't cost 1200 to tax! If was 600 I would have no issues paying.

Theres a W140 5.0 V8 mouldering away in the uncles yard. It needs a small bit of work alright, but the tax is retarded so it makes it pointless.:(

maidhc

carchaeologist wrote: »

Theres a W140 5.0 V8 mouldering away in the uncles yard. It needs a small bit of work alright, but the tax is retarded so it makes it pointless.:(

I try and keep mine going, I replaced a fair few bits over the winter, and even insured it with a view to taxing it for 3 months in the summer.

carchaeologist

maidhc wrote: »

I try and keep mine going, I replaced a fair few bits over the winter, and even insured it with a view to taxing it for 3 months in the summer.

Fantastic cars, i love the huge size of everything and the incredibly solid feel to it.

MercMad

carchaeologist wrote: »

Theres a W140 5.0 V8 mouldering away in the uncles yard. It needs a small bit of work alright, but the tax is retarded so it makes it pointless.:(

..........if its for sale, let me know !

carchaeologist

MercMad wrote: »

..........if its for sale, let me know !

Will do. Its a 94 year car and has a gearbox fault, but it's original
right down to the first aid kit in the compartment in the back shelf. Something like 80ish K on the clock apparently genuine. . Such a pity to have it idle and growing penicillin inside it as its a car that would last years and years if minded.

ahal

corktina wrote: »

the only reason cars "cost too much" to put through the NCT is that their owners have run them into the ground without even doing basic servicing. The Irish are not good at looking after their cars!

People don't service their own cars in the main, they've relied upon garages who've mostly been taking the mick for the past 10 - 15 years to do it for them. While obviously there are cowboy owners, I don't think as much as in the 1980's. Garages in this country have a lot to answer for.

In my own case the NCT put my car off the road in a day of "shock news". My thread re: same was locked, but an AA Engineer's report backed up everything I said in that (locked) thread (Scan available to mods if necessary) The fact is that all concerned - who I'd paid handsomely over the years to look after my car - didn't. That doesn't make me a rogue!

Last but by no means least, I was driving through Oilgate in Co. Wexford last November at about 11 p.m. My (other) car got showered with salt from a farmyard sh1tspreader. I rang Wexford Co. Co. and and they told me that cars / houses / grass verges getting sprayed with salt during road salting was inevitable.

Having done some further research on the matter, no, it's not. The problem is that we use farmyard sh1tspreaders while most of the World use proper road - salting equipment to salt the roads. They wouldn't allow this crap in most countries. On down the line, you get your rustbucket 'banger'.

Sure there are oblivious owners, but it's got to be looked at in the context of an even bigger oblivion (not least involving the fact that we get F - all for our tens of Billions 'raised' through taxes on motoring)

unkel

ahal wrote: »

In my own case the NCT put my car off the road in a day of "shock news". My thread re: same was locked, but an AA Engineer's report backed up everything I said in that (locked) thread (Scan available to mods if necessary)

If you have conclusive proof that someone damaged your car, why don't you sue them (in the small claims court)? If you do not have conclusive proof, I'm afraid boards would be in trouble if you posted allegations on here...

MercMad

carchaeologist wrote: »

Will do. Its a 94 year car and has a gearbox fault, but it's original
right down to the first aid kit in the compartment in the back shelf. Something like 80ish K on the clock apparently genuine. . Such a pity to have it idle and growing penicillin inside it as its a car that would last years and years if minded.

.................ahh the dreaded gearbox fault !

Still...................at the right money an all that

tony.aspergers

At least here in Ireland the vintage tax applies after 30 years, unlike the UK where it is frozen at pre-73 vehicles....

BostonB

Mileage should be a factor. So you could keep some old barge for weekends.

homingbird

tony.aspergers wrote: »

At least here in Ireland the vintage tax applies after 30 years, unlike the UK where it is frozen at pre-73 vehicles....

Yes but in the uk you wont be paying mad money to insure a big engine car.

sh1tstirrer

They are going to increase the tax on newer cars in the next budget or mini budget because the tax take on cars is down. It could be as much as pre 08.

witnessmenow

I've been advocating the increase of the price of petrol and elmination of road tax for a while now, most people think im crazy... but it makes perfect sense!

It takes into account fuel efficiency and the amount of driving done
Surely would save money in Admin costs at the tax office.

"But the price of petrol is high enough as it is"
Yes but the increase would be negated by the removal of road tax
"Na its too high"
:mad:

E.g
Me and My granny have similar cars (both pre 08, 1L cars)

She does about 500-1000 miles a year (if even!)
I do 10k-12k a year

How we pay the same tax is beyond me

tony.aspergers

homingbird wrote: »

Yes but in the uk you wont be paying mad money to insure a big engine car.

I thought it was the same rate for any 30 year old vehicle via the Vintage Insurance scheme over here (although you do have to have another non-vintage car at the same time to get this rate....)

My everyday modern car has a 2.7 engine but my insurance is about a euro a day....

tony.aspergers

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

They are going to increase the tax on newer cars in the next budget or mini budget because the tax take on cars is down. It could be as much as pre 08.

On the other hand, perhaps not. There are enough calls for a completely new motor tax system to be put in place for all vehicles from new to 30 years old - this is what I have seen:-

Road tax for all Cat B, M1 & N1 vehicles up to 30 years old - €365 per annum, with a 50% discount if vehicle emits less than 130g/km of CO2.

VRT on new M1 vehicles from 01/01/2013: 10% up to 130g/km, 20% up to 260g/km, 30% on anything higher than 260g/km.

VRT on new N1 vehicles: €365.

My understanding is that there is a call out for motorists to email the Minister for Finance asking for the above system to be adopted. If it were to be adopted it would go a long way towards rescuing the motor industry in Ireland and would persuade people to tax their cars properly, therefore resulting in an overall fairer tax take.

The only thing is that the above suggestion would see the end of shorter tax discs, i.e. you will only be able to pay for road tax for the full 12 months.

tony.aspergers

witnessmenow wrote: »

I've been advocating the increase of the price of petrol and elmination of road tax for a while now, most people think im crazy... but it makes perfect sense!

It takes into account fuel efficiency and the amount of driving done
Surely would save money in Admin costs at the tax office.

"But the price of petrol is high enough as it is"
Yes but the increase would be negated by the removal of road tax
"Na its too high"
:mad:

E.g
Me and My granny have similar cars (both pre 08, 1L cars)

She does about 500-1000 miles a year (if even!)
I do 10k-12k a year

How we pay the same tax is beyond me

In theory it makes sense, yes, but in reality the Government are more likely to temporarily scrap fuel duties altogether until oil supplies to Europe are stabilised. A lot of this is going to depend on what the UK Chancellor decides to do about the situation over there this coming Budget....

If fuel prices rise much more, there will be transport stoppages both here and in the UK, big time. So the Government will have to do something if they wish to remain in power.....

hi5

Moving the tax to fuel would mean an increase in fuel prices, but prices would have to stay similar to Northern Ireland,otherwise they'll be shipping it down by the tanker load and they wont have to worry about dye either.

galwaytt

...well I have to admit defeat, and my fsh 1993 Porsche is off to the breakers at the end if the month...

Bitten & Hisses

galwaytt wrote: »

...well I have to admit defeat, and my fsh 1993 Porsche is off to the breakers at the end if the month...

One of the 968's? Why is that?

hi5

Whats actually wrong with the car,if anything?

no need to answer,I just read the octane ad.
Shame indeed.

MercMad

galwaytt wrote: »

...well I have to admit defeat, and my fsh 1993 Porsche is off to the breakers at the end if the month...

.........why ?

Whats wrong with it ?

rebel.ranter

MercMad wrote: »

.........why ?

Whats wrong with it ?

The tragic thing is it is probably worth more in pieces than it is as a full car.

unkel

rebel.ranter wrote: »

The tragic thing is it is probably worth more in pieces than it is as a full car.

That combined with the collapsed market for classics over here, the economic crisis, the ever increasing motor tax and fuel costs, etc.

galwaytt

MercMad wrote: »

.........why ?

Whats wrong with it ?

in realilty, s.f.a. not only that, the only big ticket item that could go wrong.....I already have the spare part for, under the bench...so if it goes, there's no cost other than labour-to-fit.

As Unkel says, it's a culmination of things, but the tax is Enemy No 1. Insurance is ok (€322) and petrol........well, I did less than 4k miles in it last year, so short of putting a 1.9 TiddlyEyeRedEye in it, the juice doesn't bother me too much.

dharn

thats a real shame galway tt

Sabre Man

Maybe someone north of the border would be interested? Their motor tax rates are more sensible I believe.