Ryanair Michael Oleary

Fully Established

Great to see mick on national television last night, making a fool of himself once again,one minute he talks about how skillful pilots are and the next minute he calls them overpaid bus drivers.Taught it was great to see him squirm when Tubridy checked him on it.:D

EASYNEWS

Didn't do too bad for an assh....

Turbine

Fully Established wrote: »

Great to see mick on national television last night, making a fool of himself once again,one minute he talks about how skillful pilots are and the next minute he calls them overpaid bus drivers.Taught it was great to see him squirm when Tubridy checked him on it.

Seriously? What interview were you watching?

He never went on about them being skillful, he just made the point Ryanair pilots are more productive than Aer Lingus pilots, and hes right.

As for pilots being glorified taxi drivers, hes right. Like he said, it might be a complicated dashboard, but they just do the same runs day in, day out. Ask any 737/A320 pilot and they'll tell you the same.

Madpaddy79

Didn't see him " skuirm " at all, taught he gave an excellent awnser to the particular question.

Run_to_da_hills

The customer is always wrong.......classic.

dercu

Some very valid points on tourism in Ireland. We all know he is right about that.
However looked like it was well rehearsed interview. But he did dodge the question in relation to Ryanair going longhaul.

Tenger

Turbine wrote: »

......he just made the point Ryanair pilots are more productive than Aer Lingus pilots, and hes right.

That's funny. Last summer I heard that both airlines were running into problems with pilots hitting their monthly limits. And considering that both airlines operate to the same legal limits I would hazard a guess that they are pretty close in productivity.

I would love to see the average flight hours per pilot for each airline.

Also take into account the MoL still clings to the fiction that pilots "only work 18 hours a week".

Strange that he refers to EI pilots as peacocks yet has only ever met 1!


On another point nice to see a worthy charity getting E100K. Regardless of any particular background and source.

ANd i do agree with his point about aviation being a very small element of overall emissions.

elaverty

He should be allowed run the country for 5 yrs,and get us out of this **** were in,,,IMO

Zonda999

elaverty wrote: »

He should be allowed run the country for 5 yrs,and get us out of this **** were in,,,IMO

And he'd do a great job, if you're a fan of privatisation

I enjoyed the interview, he's very entertaining IMO. I noticed as well he dodged the question on RyanAtlantic, presumably because its not going to go ahead at this stage

xflyer

As for pilots being glorified taxi drivers, hes right. Like he said, it might be a complicated dashboard, but they just do the same runs day in, day out. Ask any 737/A320 pilot and they'll tell you the same.

Yes and make sure you tell them they're just 'glorified bus drivers'. I remember talking to a bus driver about our respective professions. Even he was irritated by that kind of talk. Occasionally you'll get a pilot who'll say it's easy. Either they haven't faced the moment where they earn their entire salary in one moment or they're so experienced they forget how hard earned that experience is.

Go and look at the crosswind landings thread, doesn't look that easy to me!

imfml

Planes land at 500mph and there's no turbulence over the Irish Sea.

Fully Established

Anyone here that agrees Mol was right to compare airline pilots with bus drivers in respect to the skill level needs a reality check ,honestly the only comparison is they may make a trip with passengers from A to B but thats where it stops.He is half the reason that a pilots career today is being destroyed by eating away at the T&C'S.I for one would not like to be on any flight with tired pilots,unfortunately thats where we are heading with MOL.

Terrontress

I would imagine that there are elements of driving a bus which pilots are glad they don't have to do. Piloting an aircraft is a very controlled environment with ATC controlling every move of every aircraft. With a bus you go on to the public highway, populated by a series of half-blind lunatics, and are responsible for a massive number of passengers also.

For O'Leary to try to disparage pilots by comparing them to bus drivers is a little unfair on bus drivers imo.

kona

Terrontress wrote: »

I would imagine that there are elements of driving a bus which pilots are glad they don't have to do. Piloting an aircraft is a very controlled environment with ATC controlling every move of every aircraft. With a bus you go on to the public highway, populated by a series of half-blind lunatics, and are responsible for a massive number of passengers also.

For O'Leary to try to disparage pilots by comparing them to bus drivers is a little unfair on bus drivers imo.

Engine fails on a bus he pulls over, engine fails on approach to a airport, he cant exactley pull over.

Thats before the constant training a pilot does, and coming from somebody who cycled in the city for years, Bus drivers are half blind lunatics IMO.

Fully Established

With no dis resect to a bus driver their are very few comparisons with pilots ,Engine failure on the road =Mirror,Signal,Manouvere,Stop,
engine failure on take off for some reason i dont think the bus engine failure procedure works here.Just remember a pilot steps up to it when things break or fail because of his complex understanding of his aircraft which ultimately has and will continue to save countless lives.

globemaster1986

Terrontress wrote: »

I would imagine that there are elements of driving a bus which pilots are glad they don't have to do. Piloting an aircraft is a very controlled environment with ATC controlling every move of every aircraft. With a bus you go on to the public highway, populated by a series of half-blind lunatics, and are responsible for a massive number of passengers also.

For O'Leary to try to disparage pilots by comparing them to bus drivers is a little unfair on bus drivers imo.

The ignorance of that comment is staggering! You really have no idea what you are talking about.:eek: Troll

westdub

Fully Established wrote: »

Great to see mick on national television last night, making a fool of himself once again,one minute he talks about how skillful pilots are and the next minute he calls them overpaid bus drivers.Taught it was great to see him squirm when Tubridy checked him on it.:D

O Leary never mentioned bus drivers in the interview.... he said Taxi drivers.... If your going to attack someone over a comment at least get the facts right.... :rolleyes:

Bsal

What about when he said all you need to become a Ryanair pilot is €50 and 250hrs flying time...eh what about the €30000 for the type rating, atleast he gives ye back your 50 quid if you get the job.

Run_to_da_hills

elaverty wrote: »

He should be allowed run the country for 5 yrs,and get us out of this **** were in,,,IMO

Just give him 6 months in power and he would have all the crows swept from the chimneys of Leinster house and beyond. Hopefully he would have CIE privatised by then.

Tenger

elaverty wrote: »

He should be allowed run the country for 5 yrs,and get us out of this **** were in,,,IMO

I think this is a very simplistic statement. If he ran the country all services would be privatised and we would be paying for everything. Be careful what you wish for.


Now saying that, he does make some important points once you cut through the bull****. He mentions how the current Govt have been a let down in their 1st year. In this interview he commented on the disparity between corporate tax incentives on one hand and the air tax on the other. How we need to use tourism to generate revenue rather than discouraging it by increasing charge by 40%.

I also agree with his point on operating theatres. They are expensive faciities with huge waiting lists, why are they not running around the clock. (Obviously cost is an issue but so is saving lives, once the waiting list are reduced 'normal' hours could be resumed)



I hate that I agree with him though, even if only on a few things........

1huge1

I don't see how we would be paying for ''everything'' as you put it if he privatised everything. We are already paying for ''everything'' and more (wastage) through our taxes.

None the less, this is a forum for aviation and aircraft and I think that discussion would best be suited elsewhere.

Terrontress

globemaster1986 wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

I would imagine that there are elements of driving a bus which pilots are glad they don't have to do. Piloting an aircraft is a very controlled environment with ATC controlling every move of every aircraft. With a bus you go on to the public highway, populated by a series of half-blind lunatics, and are responsible for a massive number of passengers also.

For O'Leary to try to disparage pilots by comparing them to bus drivers is a little unfair on bus drivers imo.

The ignorance of that comment is staggering! You really have no idea what you are talking about.:eek: Troll

I think you misunderstand me. My point was not anti-pilot but rather pro bus driver. I am aware that being a commercial or private pilot requires much more study and training than a bus driver. I also am aware that pilots have an intricate understanding of their machinery and often, when in trouble, revert to mental computation or a pencil. No easy feat at all.

I did not see the show and it now seems that O'Leary did not compare pilots to bus drivers, but my point was that there are elements of bus driving that pilots are glad they do not do. The tight regulation of all elements of flying does not exist in the bus driving arena.

But first and foremost, my point was that if anyone at all is denigrating any profession by comparing them to a bus driver, which it appears O'Leary did not, then they are being unreasonably disrespectful to hard working bus drivers who put up with an almighty amount of nonsense, navigate tens of tonnes of metal through twisty streets with dozens of souls aboard. But the two jobs aren't comparable.

As for the 'if a bus runs out of fuel, if my engine stops working I pull over' line, wise up! I'd imagine that the chance of these happening on a bus are much greater on a bus than an aeroplane, given maintennance schedule and legislation surrounding the two industries.

Finally, I'd rather you didn't call me a troll. Hopefully I have explained myself more clearly at this attempt but you might consider asking people to clarify their position before resorting to name-calling.

McNulty737

As for the 'if a bus runs out of fuel, if my engine stops working I pull over' line, wise up! I'd imagine that the chance of these happening on a bus are much greater on a bus than an aeroplane, given maintennance schedule and legislation surrounding the two industries.

Is a bus more likely to have a loss of hydraulic systems?

Is a bus more likely to have a loss of its electrical systems?

Is a bus more likely to have a loss of its FMC?

Is a bus more likely to have a loss of pressurisation requiring an emergency descent?

Is a bus more likely to have an engine failure during takeoff?

Is a bus more likely to get hit by lightning?

Is a bus more likely to have a fire? (I know I'd rather be able to pull in and jump right off the bus than have to descend and choose an airport to land at)

Do bus drivers have to land in 60mph winds?

Do bus drivers have to navigate around thunderstorms?


I could go on all day....the reality is that comparing pilots to bus drivers/taxi drivers is indeed an insult - to the pilot.

Terrontress

McNulty737 wrote: »

As for the 'if a bus runs out of fuel, if my engine stops working I pull over' line, wise up! I'd imagine that the chance of these happening on a bus are much greater on a bus than an aeroplane, given maintennance schedule and legislation surrounding the two industries.

Is a bus more likely to have a loss of hydraulic systems?

Is a bus more likely to have a loss of its electrical systems?

Is a bus more likely to have a loss of its FMC?

Is a bus more likely to have a loss of pressurisation requiring an emergency descent?

Is a bus more likely to have an engine failure during takeoff?

Is a bus more likely to get hit by lightning?

Is a bus more likely to have a fire? (I know I'd rather be able to pull in and jump right off the bus than have to descend and choose an airport to land at)

Do bus drivers have to land in 60mph winds?

Do bus drivers have to navigate around thunderstorms?


I could go on all day....the reality is that comparing pilots to bus drivers/taxi drivers is indeed an insult - to the pilot.

Is a pilot likely to be threatened by a junkie?

I did not refer to any of the issues you have raised. Commercial airliners going so low in fuel that they can no longer function is extremely rare.

I think that the statements about buses or planes running out of fuel are too simplistic. And if a commercial plane loses an engine the crisis can usually be resolved using on the remaining engine(s).

Anyway, I'll reiterate, anyone who feels themselves superior to a bus driver is being unfair. It might not take the smarts of flying but they work hard. Harder than most and have to put up with hassle that a pilot doesn't. Just as a pilot has to deal with a lot of what bus drivers don"t.

kona

Terrontress wrote: »

Is a pilot likely to be threatened by a junkie?

No but the pilot is more likely to be hijacked by some lunatic who may or may not kill him.

Id prefer some skeleton junkie hurling abuse at me a few foot above the ground than some crazy hijacker with a suicide wish and a weapon at 40 thousand feet in the middle of the atlantic.

Coming into a Aviation forum saying Pilots are glorified bus drivers is at worst being a bit slow and at best trolling.

IngazZagni

Tenger wrote: »

I think this is a very simplistic statement. If he ran the country all services would be privatised and we would be paying for everything. Be careful what you wish for.

This statement really bugs me from the left wing anti privatization folks. We already are paying for these things, even if we don't use them. They're called taxes and the more public systems there are the higher taxes are.

Also I thought the interview was pretty good, even if it did come across a little rehearsed. He made some strange remarks but that's just his nature, to get headline grabbing quotes. Of course I'm referring to the "pilots are glorified taxi drivers" statement but of course that was after he praised them for the work they do and that they are very productive compared to other airlines.

A320

Ah no point comparing jobs really!!! However "is a bus more likely to have a fire??" considering the state of some of the busses on the road id say yea!!!!!

Tenger

IngazZagni wrote: »

This statement really bugs me from the left wing anti privatization folks. We already are paying for these things, even if we don't use them. They're called taxes and the more public systems there are the higher taxes are....

It was a simplistic statement that referred to a subject not suited to the thread or the forum.

Privatisation can be a great thing as it forces the new entity to face commercial reality. My local bin services are privatised, since then they are regular and punctual. Personally I have no problem with higher taxes IF we get the services we pay for. Having lived in the UK I see what a great thing the NHS is, it is often derided as inefficient but I found it great and it didn't cost you E50 for 5 mins of the doctors time.
What I am against is the attitude of 'lets sell everything off'. I don't believe privatisation is always the answer, it may well be in 50-70% of the cases but lets take a good look rather than a kneejerk firesale. EG if we privatise local bus services some area will lose their bus routes, already we have seen how commercial realities have caused the reduction in many regional medical services.

(A bit more on topic I favour EI over FR due to their business ethos, however in my opinion the rise of FR was/is the best thing to happen to EI. FR forced EI to streamline and lower their cost base, now we have an EI that is lean and profitable compared to most European airlines.)

Terrontress

kona wrote: »

.

Coming into a Aviation forum saying Pilots are glorified bus drivers is at worst being a bit slow and at best trolling.

Point out the post where that is said and I will disagree with them too!

kona

Terrontress wrote: »

Point out the post where that is said and I will disagree with them too!

Terrontress wrote: »

For O'Leary to try to disparage pilots by comparing them to bus drivers is a little unfair on bus drivers imo.

O leary said they were glorified Bus drivers and you come across to me as agreeing with them in this statement, which is fair enough, but I dont think saying it in a Aviation forum is the best idea.

Terrontress

kona wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

Point out the post where that is said and I will disagree with them too!

Terrontress wrote: »

For O'Leary to try to disparage pilots by comparing them to bus drivers is a little unfair on bus drivers imo.

O leary said they were glorified Bus drivers and you come across to me as agreeing with them in this statement, which is fair enough, but I dont think saying it in a Aviation forum is the best idea.

I have disagreed with the comparison from my initial post on this thread. I cannot understand how you could think otherwise.

I presume you are neither a pilot nor a bus driver, given the requisite ability for reading in both professions.

kona

Terrontress wrote: »

I have disagreed with the comparison from my initial post on this thread. I cannot understand how you could think otherwise.

I presume you are neither a pilot nor a bus driver, given the requisite ability for reading in both professions.

No need to start taking cheap shots at my verbal reasoning. You come across as quite ignorant tbh.

Terrontress

kona wrote: »

Terrontress wrote: »

I have disagreed with the comparison from my initial post on this thread. I cannot understand how you could think otherwise.

I presume you are neither a pilot nor a bus driver, given the requisite ability for reading in both professions.

No need to start taking cheap shots at my verbal reasoning. You come across as quite ignorant tbh.

You are the one who has started with the insults, describing me as "quite simple". Your apparent inability to understand a simple concept or to structure a simple sentence without correct capitalisation suggests you should look in the mirror before insulting strangers on a public forum.

kona

Terrontress wrote: »

You are the one who has started with the insults, describing me as "quite simple". Your apparent inability to understand a simple concept or to structure a simple sentence without correct capitalisation suggests you should look in the mirror before insulting strangers on a public forum.

:rolleyes:

newcavanman

The simple point people have missed, is that MOL is dead right about the economy . The fact is that we can solve our problems when we decide to take hard decisions.As he pointed out, tourism, agri and foreign direct investment are our strong points, and we should embrace them . Secondly, attack the costs in the economy . Almost anything to do with the government works on the basis that if revenues fall, instead of cutting costs, we must raise prices .
Bus Eireann, perfect example . Their subsidy has been cut, but unlike a private company, rather than trying to grow their passanger numbers, or cut their costs, they simply up their fares . The same MO translates across the entire state and semi state sectors . likewise with social welfare, people dont seem to get it, that we are borrowing money from Fritz in Frankfurt to pay 180-200 a weel dole, how long before he decides that seeing as 80-100 per week does in germany, mayb the same should do in ireland ?
Of course the best thing about MOL is that in 1981 when i went to my uncles in London to spend a week spotting at the various airports, i went night boat and train, £44 as opposed to day,£54 as opposed to flying £176. That was 31 years ago, and i have to remind myself, thats how bad things were aviation wise in this country . If MOL doesnt get everything right, for this at least i think he deserves to be listened to

ohigg84

Did anyone notice how Michael deviated from the question Tubridy posed in relation to transatlantic ops? Michael was more concerned in creating more jobs in Ireland, which is great news..

So on a slightly off topic, will FR be interested in the 787 when it visits DUB?

Tenger

Doubt it. Big price tag, long waiting lists. Doesn't suit the current FR business model.

cgarrad

Long haul Ryanair is not happening in the next 4-5 years if current conditions continue as both Boeing and Airbus have full order books and full price is being charged for the aircraft.

Could you imagine if they got their hands on 10 or so A380s, he was saying €10 to NYC as promo fares.

As for pilots, all they do is take off and land. They work less than 20 hours a week. Its well known as the safest form of transport. The planes themselves correct any input error. Plane crashes make the headlines every time something happens they are so rare. Probably the worlds most overrated profession apart from celebs ;-)

Tenger

cgarrad wrote: »

......They work less than 20 hours a week.....

Micheal? Is that you?

Don't listen to the dumb media, pilots have an annual legal limit of 900 FLIGHT HOURS
Divide 900 by 52 and you get = 17.3 hours per week. (Lets be nice and says 18.75 with 4 weeks off per year)
This figure does not take into account time from check in to departure, time on the ground fuelling and checks on turnarounds and/or time spent taxiing from gate to getting airborne. So multiply that figure by >2 and you get the actual hours worked by flight/cabin crew. Does 38 hours a week seem a bit more reasonable to you?

Apart from working a pretty average number of hours per week did I mention the shift work, the need for regular full medicals, the irregular/unstable working patterns, the air that is delivered through the engines, the lack of oxygen in aircraft................

How about we only count the time a car sales man is actually talking to a customer. Is he not at work in the 30 mins between customer?

cgarrad wrote: »

.....Its well known as the safest form of transport. The planes themselves correct any input error........

If that is so then how were some lunatics able to direct 3 aircraft into large buildings about 10 years ago? Or indeed how come planes don't stop crashes from happening every week or two?

McNulty737

cgarrad wrote: »

As for pilots, all they do is take off and land. They work less than 20 hours a week. Its well known as the safest form of transport. The planes themselves correct any input error. Plane crashes make the headlines every time something happens they are so rare. Probably the worlds most overrated profession apart from celebs ;-)

Clueless.

xflyer

As for pilots, all they do is take off and land. They work less than 20 hours a week. Its well known as the safest form of transport. The planes themselves correct any input error. Plane crashes make the headlines every time something happens they are so rare. Probably the worlds most overrated profession apart from celebs ;-)

You needed one of these;). They might have seen the joke then. In any case you're wrong it's about 18 hours a week. You get double time if you have to work the extra two hours.:p (A joke)

The main thing to remember is that when O'Leary says this he means flying hours averaged over the year. It's also worth remembering that Ryanair's pilots only get paid for flying hours. If they're not flying they don't get paid, no paid holidays, buy their own uniform, medical etc. No perks at all, none. Ryanair pilots earn their money!

cgarrad

If my job was to drive the two hours from Dublin airport to Belfast airport and back along the M1 every day, people would probably say I had an easy job.

If I then told them that once on the motorway I was driving a top of the range BMW and all I had to do was sit back and engage the active cruise control that accelerated and braked as I encountered traffic. It also had lane guidance and a radar system that alerted me of any cars for the next couple of km.

Then I told them I had a team of people in contact with all the other road users telling the traffic my location and ensuring that any close encounters were avoided.

I only work 4 hours a day.

€75k a year.

:eek:

Growler!!!

You obviously haven't read any of the other replies!

How many passengers are you responsible for in this BMW?
Do you get hounded by the owner of said car to complete the round trip on minimum safe fuel? Do you have to constantly worry about ice build up?

The apparently large paycheck is not for the work we do everyday but the work we will have to do in an emergency. Would you not want a large paycheck for your BMW driver to safely deliver your loved ones up the M1?

xflyer

Seriously cgarrad, I gave you the benefit of the doubt, assuming your were joking. Now you appear to be trolling. Seeing as we're discussing Ryanair the reality is that pilots are on duty between 8 and 12 hours a day, on the flight deck about 7 to 11 hours. Often with early starts like 05:30. This goes on five days in a row.

I'm sure there are Ryanair pilots here who can clarify it further but if you prefer the lie and want to believe it, go ahead.

So troll somewhere else, please.

McNulty737

cgarrad wrote: »

If my job was to drive the two hours from Dublin airport to Belfast airport and back along the M1 every day, people would probably say I had an easy job.

If I then told them that once on the motorway I was driving a top of the range BMW and all I had to do was sit back and engage the active cruise control that accelerated and braked as I encountered traffic. It also had lane guidance and a radar system that alerted me of any cars for the next couple of km.

Then I told them I had a team of people in contact with all the other road users telling the traffic my location and ensuring that any close encounters were avoided.

I only work 4 hours a day.

€75k a year.

:eek:

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one.....

Tombo2000

I was absolutely delighted with his comments on the whole Farmleigh thing......which was a sham and an excuse for a bunch of bigheads to feel smart about themselves (at the bloody taxpayers expense FFS).

I would have differed with his views on Denis O'Brien though. His comment was that Denis O'Brien has invested many millions in Ireland, and he cited the Independent News & media investment.

Denis O'Brien invested €500mn in Independent News & media shares. This is not the same thing at all as investing €500mn in Ireland; quite the opposite most of these shares would have been held by investors outside of Ireland. This is completely different to investing €500mn in printing plant and machinery, or in new journalists. Denis O'Briens Indo investment has not created one job and has not generated any tax revenues for this country.

As for the Newstalk investment, well and good.....but to my knowledge Newstalk has about 8 or 10 presenters on decent wages and 30 or 40 others on close to minimum wage......this is not a significant contribution to the Irish economy in the context of the masses of tax he has (legally) avoided paying here.

I accept Micheal O'Leary's point that he doesnt know Denis O'Brien. And I accept his point that there is a double standard in carping about tax exiles when we have a low corporate tax rate. But I do not accept his point that Denis OBrien has made a significant contribution to the irish economy.

Sorry for derailing, fair play micheal, great airline, great business.

pclancy

cgarrad wrote: »

As for pilots, all they do is take off and land. They work less than 20 hours a week. Its well known as the safest form of transport. The planes themselves correct any input error. Plane crashes make the headlines every time something happens they are so rare. Probably the worlds most overrated profession apart from celebs ;-)

Incredible post and i've seen a lot of mad stuff written here over the years.

My hat goes out to you sir for such a complete demonstration of not having a clue of what you are talking about.

Tombo2000

pclancy wrote: »

Incredible post and i've seen a lot of mad stuff written here over the years.

My hat goes out to you sir for such a complete demonstration of not having a clue of what you are talking about.

Incredible maybe.....but which part of it is wrong?

Forgive me, I know nada about pilots......

homerjay2005

i thought he was excellent.
what an inspirational man, he makes everything so simple and its brilliant.

no bulls*it, just common sense which is why he is successful.

McNulty737

For the record last week i flew 35 hours, which worked out at 49 hours DUTY time. Thats over 5 days which is almost 10 hours working per day. Flew 16 sectors (16 take offs and landings), and that's before we start taking into account things like ****ty weather and moroccan and spanish ATC.

20 hours a week my arse.

BrianD

Fully Established wrote: »

Great to see mick on national television last night, making a fool of himself once again,one minute he talks about how skillful pilots are and the next minute he calls them overpaid bus drivers.Taught it was great to see him squirm when Tubridy checked him on it.:D

Thought the interview was good. He tells it as it is which is not always what people want to hear.

In regard to the pilots, i missed that section but it is notable that one of the things that does "keep him awake at night" is safety and that one time he will get that call. So one would think that he should value his pilots more given that they are one important part of what keeps Ryan flying safely and on time.