Electric Dog Fence

GalwayGunner

Hi folks,

We'll be picking up a new puppy next week and are trying to prepare for the grand arrival.

We have a garden of around 1/2 acre near a relatively busy road. We're considering getting a Electric Dog Fence and have looked at quotes for around €250.

Does anyone have any experience with these? Do they actually work?

Can anyone recommend any brands in particular or give any advice on what to look for?

Appreciate your help!

Delancey

Unfortunately the short answer is No they don't work , certainly not to the extent you can have confidence in them , dogs constantly escape through them - I picked up a stray a few months ago - she had no ID tag but I was able to ID her from her radio collar - kinda says it all :rolleyes:

GalwayGunner

Delancey wrote: »

Unfortunately the short answer is No they don't work , certainly not to the extent you can have confidence in them , dogs constantly escape through them - I picked up a stray a few months ago - she had no ID tag but I was able to ID her from her radio collar - kinda says it all :rolleyes:

But aren't these designed to be best used along with the proper training of the dog?

andreac

These are a cruel piece of equipment and should not be used on any dog let alone a little puppy:mad:

The name says it all "shock" collar. Do the responsible thing and either fence off the garden or build a dog run for the dog where it can be kept safely and securely when needed.

Those shock collars dont work and are not reliable at all. Please dont put your puppy through pain by giving it electric shocks around its neck:mad::mad:
These collars are actually banned in Wales and the sooner they are banned here the better!!!

TooManyDogs

Delancey wrote: »

dogs constantly escape through them

+1
They simply aren't reliable. When we first bought our house we got one for our 1/2 acre garden because we were getting quotes of €10k to put up fencing, it was €6k alone for raw materials, simply not an option. In the end we decided to buy a radio fence, neither of us were very comfortable with the idea but thought in the long run with correct training it would be better than the small dog run we could build for the same money. WRONG!!!

1 of my dogs constantly escaped, she would simply run through the shock in order to go wandering. It regularly failed - breaks in the wire which meant we would have to search the entire boundary for the fail point and then try and fix it permanently, power failure which causes the unit to bleep an alert but my dogs very quickly learned when the constant beeping happened they could go out freely. A different dog of mine simply shut down whenever the collar was put on her. I can't even begin to tell you how much I regret buying the bloody thing in the first place, I really wish we'd put the money into a dog run. Now we have the place fenced in, well, half of it. In the end we cut the garden in two and have 2 sheep living in one bit so although it took us a few years we have 1/3 of the garden fenced secure for dogs and 2/3 secure for the sheep.

andreac

Just to add, does the breeder of your pup know you are considering using one of these fences?
If not, i suggest you mention it, as they might change their mind about selling you the pup, as i certainly wouldnt allow any pups i breed to be in a home that uses a shock collar.

Blueprint

Just reposted a report of a dog seen wandering the countryside wearing one of these collars on Facebook earlier, says it all really...

GalwayGunner

andreac wrote: »

Just to add, does the breeder of your pup know you are considering using one of these fences?
If not, i suggest you mention it, as they might change their mind about selling you the pup, as i certainly wouldnt allow any pups i breed to be in a home that uses a shock collar.

Appreciate your passionate response andreac but please note - this is purely just an enquiry!!

DBB

TooManyDogs wrote: »

+1
They simply aren't reliable. When we first bought our house we got one for our 1/2 acre garden because we were getting quotes of €10k to put up fencing, it was €6k alone for raw materials, simply not an option. In the end we decided to buy a radio fence, neither of us were very comfortable with the idea but thought in the long run with correct training it would be better than the small dog run we could build for the same money. WRONG!!!

1 of my dogs constantly escaped, she would simply run through the shock in order to go wandering. It regularly failed - breaks in the wire which meant we would have to search the entire boundary for the fail point and then try and fix it permanently, power failure which causes the unit to bleep an alert but my dogs very quickly learned when the constant beeping happened they could go out freely. A different dog of mine simply shut down whenever the collar was put on her. I can't even begin to tell you how much I regret buying the bloody thing in the first place, I really wish we'd put the money into a dog run. Now we have the place fenced in, well, half of it. In the end we cut the garden in two and have 2 sheep living in one bit so although it took us a few years we have 1/3 of the garden fenced secure for dogs and 2/3 secure for the sheep.

I could have written every word of this post myself, having been through a very similar experience with the Radio Fence, and having the same damn regrets about it now.
Fencing off a smaller part of the garden is perfectly okay, is safer and more ethical, and less likely to contribute towards behavioural problems down the road.
Hope this helps you make the decision!

Vince32

I've seen Images of these collars that malfunctioned, it was horrific I won't gross you out by posting one, I'd agree with fencing off a small portion of your 1/2 acre as a play area though and as time goes by and the pup gets bigger you can improve on the fencing as needs be.

Enjoy your new pup, and have many happy years together

Discodog

Dogs hardly need gardens & even a big garden is no substitute for two walks a day. I have three dogs & an unfenced garden. My dogs are never in the garden except when on flexi leads with me on the other end. But they get two 40 minute off lead walks every day & they want to spend the rest of their time indoors with me. They are safe, secure & very happy.

I too have seen many problems with "electric fences" & I would never use one. One frequent problem is that the dog gets out & then, because of the shock, can't get back in. It's too easy to have a battery failure, a collar failure, & exceptional circumstances (like a cat) that make the dog run through the pain.

You are starting a relationship that should last many years. The dog is going to give you masses of unconditional love so why start by giving it pain ?

Allgäuerin

OP just have a look at the Lost and Found Thread:

Hi guys,
Lost our 18 month old rottweiler. Gone missing from the Templemore area. he was wearing a pet safe collar but got out the gate. he was only gone 10 minutes. He's really friendly and a real baby so really really worried. He's gone since Friday 13th Jan. Any info big or small please please ring. REWARD!!!! http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/dogs/2917522 all the info is here and a pic. Thank you!

That's how safe they are

axle108

Lets look at a very important issue in owning a dog. We want our dogs to come when they are called, want to follow us and be by our side as our companion.
So you aquire a pup and install one of theese electronic fences. You leave for work every day and cross the barrier of the electronic fence. Your pup chases after you as youd expect, and you smile and say he hates to see me go. Then bang, pup gets a shock. How long do you think it would take the pup to realise following you causes pain. How do you think this is going to impact on when you let the dog off the lead whilst out walking!
I was working outside a house a few months back, a dog was in the garden with an electronic fence installed. The owner came out for a chat, dog followed and all i heard was a yelp at which point the dog snapped at the owner from pure reflex. The owner said to me, he'll learn not to cross that line eventually, stupid dog. Now i'd like to think the dog was twice as clever as the owner and maybe the fence just wont work out as the owner hoped it would :eek:. Cant you just imagine in the future trying to take that dog across that line to go for a walk! and of course i mean with it turned off. My advice would be to build a sectioned off area. It does'nt have to be the whole land fenced off. Eight foot fencing in a square with a type of strong chicken wire, a gate and a kennell is what i did for my GSD, did the trick. The misconception is that a large garden is exercise for a dog, when in reality most dogs after the initial sniff around will spend most of the day curled up snoozing and bored awaiting the return of the owner, with the occasional get up to investigate something that passes by or to whizz.

eoinburke67

I actually have one of these and they do work... But they must be used correctly i.e with training. they are not a solution but a means to one. You must follow the instructions that come with them to train your dog to it. Depending on what model you get with rechargeable units or not replace the battery must be replaced month! dont wait for the dog to escape.
And since you say your getting a puppy this will be useless, they cannot be used on a dog under 6 mts and under 4 pounds. All the best with you new pup!

Discodog

The problem is that everyone who's dog has escaped will tell you that the fence "usually works". You can have a system failure from a broken wire, dud battery, power cut etc & you can have a behavioural failure where the dog ignores the shock. If the collar is too loose it may not transfer the shock & if it is too tight the "prongs" will cause injury. There are too many variables to make the system totally reliable enough to prevent a dog from causing an accident.

But if you can't use it until the dog is 6 months old it becomes pointless as you will already of needed to fence an area to secure the dog. Also these systems require a training period where the dog "learns" about the boundaries. During this time there is an increased risk of escape. The only possible justifiable use of electric fencing is to contain an animal to part of an already secure area. For example a horse owner might use it to stop the horses from grazing part of a field but you would never put a horse next to a road with only an electric fence to contain it.

Taceom

GalwayGunner wrote: »

Does anyone have any experience with these? Do they actually work?

Although I realise it isn't very PC to admit it on these boards I use the Pet Fence and it works brilliantly on my dog.
We bought the fence soon after we bought the dog and trained him as per the instructions and it works well for us. That said I always put him either in his pen or bring him into the house when we are leaving him home alone, but other than that he is always in the garden with his collar on and has never once crossed the fence even when with the temptation of other dogs or passing cats.
I do know of other dog owners where they have tried this fence and it has not been at all effective so I guess we are lucky. I would certainly recommend it.

Gareth2011

GalwayGunner wrote: »

But aren't these designed to be best used along with the proper training of the dog?

They are but if the dog sees something it wants and it can run straight over the wire, get a shock after its over it and then afraid to cross back over it again because of the shock. Happened with mine a few times now I have 6ft gates and a 6ft wire fence.

Gareth2011

Taceom wrote: »

Although I realise it isn't very PC to admit it on these boards I use the Pet Fence and it works brilliantly on my dog.
We bought the fence soon after we bought the dog and trained him as per the instructions and it works well for us. That said I always put him either in his pen or bring him into the house when we are leaving him home alone, but other than that he is always in the garden with his collar on and has never once crossed the fence even when with the temptation of other dogs or passing cats.
I do know of other dog owners where they have tried this fence and it has not been at all effective so I guess we are lucky. I would certainly recommend it.

Ever have breaks in the wire? When mine was set up I was constantly finding them. Even if there was no break il follow the wire the whole way and eventually find a spot that was weaker and was causing the receiver to beep to warn me. Bear in mind I had my wire buried and it still wasn't the best.

Gareth2011

Off topic post.

Sigma Force

Don't waste your money on one OP. They are not realiable and a cheap way out of proper secure fencing this is why people convince themselves it's the only way to go.

I can sympathise having a similar sized garden it is expensive to fence in but in the long term for peace of mind and well as practically it is better to put up proper solid fencing. There are a few choices out there the cheapest is usually thick 8 ft timber posts (they go 2 feet in the ground so you end up with a 6ft post) and heavy chainlink wire.

This type of fence will secure any size dog pretty much, unless they are complete houdinis, the base is backfilled with soil, but you can use concrete if needed but I've found I haven't.

I got farm relief services to put in the fence and it's still going strong, must have it about 7 years or so now at least, probably longer been ages anyway and despite the hedging behind it growing every summer it's still going strong. It's not cheap at all you are talking about a few thousand..put so would a vet bill be or a member of the public if the dog got in to trouble when wandering.

Some dogs will see something and be so nuts after it they won't care about the elec. collar they will just go straight for it whether it's another dog, cat, wild rabbit, poor postie etc. The other reason for decent fencing it keeps other dogs out even in the countryside or should I say especially in the countryside people think it's ok to allow their dogs to wander and so they can wander off with another dog or fight with another dog.

I'd recommend going with the post and rail but if you find timber fence panels work better then go with them.

Discodog

But you don't have to fence the whole garden. Provided that the dog gets two good walks a day it won't need garden space so you only need a small area for the before bed pee etc.

rabbit.84

I use one on my dog.
It will not work if you have a big open space. The dog will ignore the shock eventually. Our garden is surrounded on two sides by a hedge and the other by a wall. There are one or two gaps that he could get out. The main reason we got it was to protect the colony of cats that live by our house. The dog was mad to play with them but they are very scared of him so the radio collar stops him going into their area. We had to build one fence to cover one of the gaps as the cats would sit the regularly and eventually he would get over excited and just run out.

runawaybishop

GalwayGunner wrote: »

Hi folks,

We'll be picking up a new puppy next week and are trying to prepare for the grand arrival.

We have a garden of around 1/2 acre near a relatively busy road. We're considering getting a Electric Dog Fence and have looked at quotes for around €250.

Does anyone have any experience with these? Do they actually work?

Can anyone recommend any brands in particular or give any advice on what to look for?

Appreciate your help!

You can get petsafe fences from ebay for 80 euro, delivered to your door. It should come with enough wire if you choose that model) to cover 1/2 an acre, with more wire costing about 15 euro if you want the branded stuff. Fencing the same area with chainlink would be prohibitive.

They work extremely well, assuming you spend the small amount of time required to train your dog. I would advise you to ignore the hilariously over the top reactions in this thread about them being cruel or ineffective.

You can get a completely wireless option or a version that requires you to run a cable. You can also get ones with different intensity setting to suit your dog. You will have to wait until the dog is a bit older to use it though. They work best when there is a defined boundary to run them along.

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

You can get petsafe fences from ebay for 80 euro, delivered to your door. It should come with enough wire if you choose that model) to cover 1/2 an acre, with more wire costing about 15 euro if you want the branded stuff. Fencing the same area with chainlink would be prohibitive.

They work extremely well, assuming you spend the small amount of time required to train your dog. I would advise you to ignore the hilariously over the top reactions in this thread about them being cruel or ineffective.

You can get a completely wireless option or a version that requires you to run a cable. You can also get ones with different intensity setting to suit your dog. You will have to wait until the dog is a bit older to use it though. They work best when there is a defined boundary to run them along.

Anyone who has any experience of wireless devices around buildings will know that the wireless version is full of potential problems. The video shows 360 degree coverage & an accurate range setting. Both are pretty impossible. Try it with your wifi at home.

As for over the top reactions, if you read the thread most of them are based on personal experience or the experience of Vets, Dog Trainers & SPCA's. How do you know which "intensity" will suit your dog in advance of fitting the system ?

feelgoodinc27

Had a problem with a neighbours dog chasing cattle, they got an electric dog fence and it hasn't happened again.

Sigma Force

In the long term fencing off the whole area makes more sense, and cheaper than doing it bit by bit. I do agree a good sized dog run and a few walks a day would do the job but long term years from now you'll only end up having to put in fencing for one reason or another anyway. It's a good idea to fence off your property boundary. A cheaper option could be post and rail fencing and then you use the heavy chainlink wire to tack on yourself..takes ages but can work. All depends on the size and ability of the dog to jump so it's important to get the height right if unsure safest bet is 6 foot high.

I personally couldn't use the shock collars, saying that it is a lot less painfull than a dog getting hit by a car. It really gives you peace of mind having a solid structure in the garden though.

runawaybishop

Discodog wrote: »

Anyone who has any experience of wireless devices around buildings will know that the wireless version is full of potential problems. The video shows 360 degree coverage & an accurate range setting. Both are pretty impossible. Try it with your wifi at home.

As for over the top reactions, if you read the thread most of them are based on personal experience or the experience of Vets, Dog Trainers & SPCA's. How do you know which "intensity" will suit your dog in advance of fitting the system ?

My in-laws have the wireless version and it works a treat on their dog, who would not be the best trained hound in the world.

As for knowing the intensity - it will take about 20 minutes to work it out. This isnt rocket science.

Have any of you actually put your hand on these collars? From the comments it would appear not.

TooManyDogs

runawaybishop wrote: »

Have any of you actually put your hand on these collars? From the comment it would appear not.

Yes. My husband always tested the intensity before we put it up and when he screamed while holding it at a little over half way up the scale we stopped using it. Bear in mind that at this intensity my collie was still escaping and more unusually coming back through the fence but would brace herself and scream while jumping through. And then there's the day she got her collar caught on the branches of a tree within the shock zone, her screams brought me running out of the house, thank God I hadn't left for work. Alot of people who own these fences and test it on themselves do so before they put it on the dog for the very first time on the lowest setting but not again. I'd love for them to take the collar off the dog when it's at an intensity setting that keeps the dog in the garden in a few.months time and put it on their own neck then, I bet they'd be in pain.

I trained my dogs properly to the fence, I took the 2 weeks like the manual said and it still didn't work for most of my dogs. 2 continued to escape, and 1 shut down the minute the collar was put on her.

Of course you're going to know of people who think the collar is great but they can be really really limited, success depends on your dogs personality, how open your property boundaries are naturally, what temptations are within eyesight of your dog. You've heard from a couple of people here who had the fence system, trained their dogs properly and still had nothing but hassle with breaks in the line and escaping dogs so went back to traditional fencing.

gammon_steak

I use one and it works perfectly. The problem is that people put them on and expect them to work automatically but the dog needs to be trained on a lead to get used to the boundaries. If it's done properly and patiently then they work fine. They will only get a shock in training (usually once) and from then on they only hear warning beaps so never get shocked again.

It would be the exact same if a dog ran into a wall while getting used to new surroundings. They would learn the boundary and it wouldn't happen again. People forget that the electric boundaries are just that.... boundaries and not some sort of punishment.

It's a lot more cruel to let your dogs wander out and get killed on the road!!! Ideally we'd all rather a secure fence but it's not an option for a lot of people. And as someone said above, it may happen occasionally that the system fails and the dog gets out but that could happen with any setup (hole in fence, jumping etc). Lucklily it hasn't happened to me and if you are considering electric invisible fences then I recommend getting a proper system and avoid cheap ebay options.

andreac

gammon_steak wrote: »

I use one and it works perfectly. The problem is that people put them and expect them to work automatically but the dog needs to be trained on a lead to get used to the boundaries. If it's done properly and patiently then they work fine. They will only get a shock in training (usually once) and from then on they only hear warning beaps so never get shocked again.

It would be the exact same if a dog ran into a wall while getting used to new surroundings. They would learn the boundary and it wouldn't happen again. People forget that the electric boundaries are just that.... boundaries and not some sort of punishment.

It's a lot more cruel to let your dogs wander out and get killed on the road!!! Ideally we'd all rather a secure fence but it's not an option for a lot of people. And as someone said above, it may happen occasionally that the system fails and the dog gets out but that could happen with any setup (hole in fence, jumping etc). Lucklily it hasn't happened to me and if you are considering electric invisible fences then I recommend getting a proper system and avoid cheap ebay options.

A dog running into a wall?? I have never seen a dog do that...:rolleyes:

If securely fencing an area for your dog is not an option, then you shouldnt get a dog in the first place.

Electric shock collars are an easy, cruel (for the poor dog) way out for the owner and of course, as usual, its the dogs that suffer because the owner cant do the responsible thing:mad:

People just want quick, cheap and easy fixes and not whats best for the dog.

They want whats easier and cheaper for them to sort, and shocking a dog
around its neck seems to be a common method and solution for irresponsible owners. Its disgraceful. These collars are actually banned in Wales, does that not count for something??

I honestly do wonder and ive said it before, how a dog owner can do this to their beloved pet, i really do....

Discodog

gammon_steak wrote: »

Ideally we'd all rather a secure fence but it's not an option for a lot of people. And as someone said above, it may happen occasionally that the system fails and the dog gets out but that could happen with any setup (hole in fence, jumping etc). Lucklily it hasn't happened to me

A secure fence is an option for everyone - it just depends on how big you want the fenced area to be. In most gardens it's simple to fence an area joined to the back of the house & then put a gate in to allow access to the rest of the garden. Think of it as a big play pen.

The chances of escape are many times higher with an electronic fence than a real one because there are a lot of things that can fail - a simple power cut will disable the fence. The dog is going to be there for many years & a good fence will last the lifetime of the dog.

Do you really want to rely on luck to keep a dog safe ?

Electronic fences are popular because they are a cheap, lazy option. They can also be an excuse for not walking the dog. Even if a dog has a garden it still needs walking & if you walk it twice a day you don't need any garden. One would also have to question the ethics of companies using the word "Safe" in their branding. But there is every possibility that they will be made illegal in the Animal Welfare Bill as they have in Wales.

Taceom

andreac wrote: »

A dog running into a wall?? I have never seen a dog do that...:rolleyes:

My friend's dog died when she ran into one of their boundary walls. She hit the wall and was dead in minutes.

TooManyDogs

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I trained my dogs properly to the fence, I took the 2 weeks like the manual said and it still didn't work for most of my dogs. 2 continued to escape, and 1 shut down the minute the collar was put on her.

I guess you didn't read my post, I did train them properly, exactly how it said on the manual but for 1 dog wandering was just too big an incentive, for another the sight of people passing by the end of the drive way was enough of an incentive to come out barking at them.

gammon_steak wrote: »

The problem is that people put them on and expect them to work automatically but the dog needs to be trained on a lead to get used to the boundaries. If it's done properly and patiently then they work fine. They will only get a shock in training (usually once) and from then on they only hear warning beaps so never get shocked again.

IT'S NOT A GUARANTEED SYSTEM!!!! Even with the correct and proper training, dogs do deliberatly shock themselves to get out and you do get breaks in the wire or power failures, wireless systems don't suit every garden shape, it wouldnt have suited mine. I know it works fine for a lot of people, but for an equal number of people it doesnt work, and training has nothing to do with it

ShaShaBear

I'll just jump in here and say that regardless of whether or not you agree with this kind of fencing (I don't), everyone agrees that a pup is far too young for this. So the overall consensus is don't even think about it, until the dog is at least 6 months old, or not at all. And if you can manage without it for 6 months, why bother?

Solair

A friend of ours had one of these and their dog turned violent!

Basically anytime the dog got a shock he attacked the nearest person and seemed to assume they'd somehow caused it.

He then started attacking the air anywhere near the fence line.

I don't think these are a particularly good solution. Electric fences keep cattle in because cows are quite passive, slow moving creatures. Dogs are intelligent, active hunters!

Their reaction to a threat can be a response with serious levels of violence and biting.

what happens if a kid is playing with your dog and it gets shocked and the dog attacks them?

Discodog

ShaShaBear wrote: »

I'll just jump in here and say that regardless of whether or not you agree with this kind of fencing (I don't), everyone agrees that a pup is far too young for this. So the overall consensus is don't even think about it, until the dog is at least 6 months old, or not at all. And if you can manage without it for 6 months, why bother?

Exactly. You will have to fence the pup.

gammon_steak

Discodog wrote: »

A secure fence is an option for everyone

No it's not. Everyone's situation is different and there are many factors other than cost. At the end of the day, if a dog is extremely happy in his/her home while wearing a collar and never gets shocked (after the initial one in training) and is also perfectly safe then it is better off than being caged up in a pound with a lottery chance of finding a good home. To say otherwise is simply pig ignorance.

If a dog turns violent from wearing a collar? Stop immediately!!! It's not rocket science people. Use some common sense! It may not work for everyone. I can see that if you are totally against it then I'm not going to convince you otherwise but please be assured that my dog is extremely happy and safe in a good home.

Discodog

gammon_steak wrote: »

Discodog wrote: »

A secure fence is an option for everyone

No it's not. Everyone's situation is different and there are many factors other than cost.

What other factors ? Most houses have a back door & a patio, deck & garden. There will usually be an obvious "line" for the fencing. All it needs is some posts, rails & wire fencing. It's a great way of containing young children as well.

One other factor to bear in mind is theft of your dog. It is so easy for anyone to walk up your drive & just remove the dog's collar.

The "TV" vet Joe Inglis did a feature on shock collars on the BBC. The manufacturer complained & lost. Joe said:

"And I am very happy to reiterate my view that electric shock collars are dangerous, unnecessary and should be banned everywhere"

http://joethevet.co.uk/?p=64

runawaybishop

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Yes. My husband always tested the intensity before we put it up and when he screamed while holding it at a little over half way up the scale we stopped using it.

I have also tested it. I was nowhere near screaming. Hyperbole will not help you get your point across.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

And then there's the day she got her collar caught on the branches of a tree within the shock zone, her screams brought me running out of the house, thank God I hadn't left for work.

What relevance does this have? Your dog had its collar caught in a tree.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Alot of people who own these fences and test it on themselves do so before they put it on the dog for the very first time on the lowest setting but not again. I'd love for them to take the collar off the dog when it's at an intensity setting that keeps the dog in the garden in a few.months time and put it on their own neck then, I bet they'd be in pain.

Hyperbole. Link to the statistics that back up your claim of "alot".
"I bet they'd be in pain." This is not fact.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I trained my dogs properly to the fence, I took the 2 weeks like the manual said and it still didn't work for most of my dogs. 2 continued to escape, and 1 shut down the minute the collar was put on her.

Your dogs were not trained properly by the very definition of the word from what you describe here.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Of course you're going to know of people who think the collar is great but they can be really really limited, success depends on your dogs personality, how open your property boundaries are naturally, what temptations are within eyesight of your dog. You've heard from a couple of people here who had the fence system, trained their dogs properly and still had nothing but hassle with breaks in the line and escaping dogs so went back to traditional fencing.

The success is down to how you train your dog, much like every thing else.

andreac wrote: »

If securely fencing an area for your dog is not an option, then you shouldnt get a dog in the first place.

Your definition of what is secure is different to other peoples, and it is not your decision to make as to who is allowed a dog.

andreac wrote: »

Electric shock collars are an easy, cruel (for the poor dog) way out for the owner and of course, as usual, its the dogs that suffer because the owner cant do the responsible thing:mad:

Thats your opinion. It is not fact.

andreac wrote: »

People just want quick, cheap and easy fixes and not whats best for the dog.
They want whats easier and cheaper for them to sort, and shocking a dog
around its neck seems to be a common method and solution for irresponsible owners. Its disgraceful. These collars are actually banned in Wales, does that not count for something??

The two are not mutually exclusive - you can get something that is cheap, easy and best for the dog. Not getting nailed by a car is a pretty good thing for the dog.

So what if these are banned in wales? Have you actually looked at the reasoning for the ban?

andreac wrote: »

I honestly do wonder and ive said it before, how a dog owner can do this to their beloved pet, i really do....

Not all dog owner pretend their dogs are people.

Discodog wrote: »

A secure fence is an option for everyone

This is not true in the slightest.

Discodog wrote: »

The chances of escape are many times higher with an electronic fence than a real one

I would be interested to see the research on this.

Discodog wrote: »

But there is every possibility that they will be made illegal in the Animal Welfare Bill as they have in Wales.

There is the possibilty that that bill will be repealed also. A lot of things are possible, lets stick to what is actually the case though.

Solair wrote: »

A friend of ours had one of these and their dog turned violent!

Oh please.


The OP asked for advice on these systems. He/she didn't ask for guesswork and blatant lies. Its fine if you dislike these systems, just don't make ridiculous statements like "The name says it all "shock" collar." <-- they aren't called shock collars

A measured and thought out post will garner more positive responses.

andreac

Runawaybishop, please point out where i said dogs are people??

Dogs are living creatures that feel pain, so i would never, ever inflict pain intentionally on my dogs by shocking them with an electric shock because i cant be bothered to fence my garden to keep it in.

Secure fencing is an option for everyone, whether it be fencing with wooden fencing or building a dog run in an area of the garden, how would it not be an option, please explain that to me?

TooManyDogs

runawaybishop wrote: »

The OP asked for advice on these systems. He/she didn't ask for guesswork and blatant lies

I'd like you to point out the blatant lies

runawaybishop

andreac wrote: »

Runawaybishop, please point out where i said dogs are people??

Dogs are living creatures that feel pain, so i would never, ever inflict pain intentionally on my dogs by shocking them with an electric shock because i cant be bothered to fence my garden to keep it in.

Secure fencing is an option for everyone, whether it be fencing with wooden fencing or building a dog run in an area of the garden, how would it not be an option, please explain that to me?

I must apologise, you did not say dogs were people in this thread.

Indeed, dogs are living creatures. That does not mean that a collar such as this is cruel. Animals use corrections that involve physical contact and pain all the time.

Secure fencing, like suggested in this thread, is only an option if you can afford it. Therefore it is not a reasonable option for everyone.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I'd like you to point out the blatant lies

I have already addressed most of the points i felt needed addressing.

andreac

runawaybishop wrote: »

I must apologise, you did not say dogs were people in this thread.

Indeed, dogs are living creatures. That does not mean that a collar such as this is cruel. Animals use corrections that involve physical contact and pain all the time.

Secure fencing, like suggested in this thread, is only an option if you can afford it. Therefore it is not a reasonable option for everyone.



I have already addressed most of the points i felt needed addressing.

If you cant afford it and its not an option as you say, then a dog should not be an option either.

runawaybishop

andreac wrote: »

If you cant afford it and its not an option as you say, then a dog should not be an option either.

You do not decide who can own a dog, who do you think you are?

Nor do you decide what is appropriate when it comes to fencing a dog in. Fences like the OP is enquiring about have been shown to work. Whyever do you think you have the right to demand they fork out thousands on a fence?

TooManyDogs

runawaybishop wrote: »

TooManyDogs wrote:

Yes. My husband always tested the intensity before we put it up and when he screamed while holding it at a little over half way up the scale we stopped using it.

I have also tested it. I was nowhere near screaming. Hyperbole will not help you get your point across.

Exactly why is this hyperbole?

runawaybishop wrote: »

TooManyDogs wrote:

And then there's the day she got her collar caught on the branches of a tree within the shock zone

What relevance does this have? Your dog had its collar caught in a tree.

The point is that she got her collar caught in the shock zone, so the collar repeatedly shocked her, dangerous situation

runawaybishop wrote: »

Your dogs were not trained properly by the very definition of the word from what you describe here.

Yes they were properly trained, the training does not take into account the determination of the individual dogs, failure in the line meaning that the dog learns when they can cross the barrier, they are not guaranteed or in anyway as secure as a proper fence. They are not a fail safe solution for every dog and by the time you discover they don't work for your dog you've already spent between €200 and €500 which could have bought a secure run for the dog

TooManyDogs

runawaybishop wrote: »

I have already addressed most of the points i felt needed addressing.

So basically you're going to insinuate people are liars without having the guts to say it to their face? Nice

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

I have also tested it. I was nowhere near screaming. Hyperbole will not help you get your point across.

In the link that I provided the Vet described experiencing the shock, live on TV, as a "very unpleasant experience"

runawaybishop wrote: »

So what if these are banned in wales? Have you actually looked at the reasoning for the ban?

The Kennel Club conducted a survey & 70% of respondents disapproved of their use. The ban has been welcomed by the RSPCA, Dogs Trust, Blue Cross etc. Someone has already received a £2000 fine for using a shock collar.

http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/2703

Elin Jones Welsh Minister for Rural Affairs who laid the Bill before parliament:

"I am now of the view that the use of electric shock collars should be banned in Wales. They are considered to conflict with positive reward based training in that the “action” of triggering an electric stimulus is not necessarily directly associated with the behaviour change sought. Further, the science to date suggests that the use of these collars adversely affects the behaviour of animals and, in untrained hands, could cause pain or distress."

They also conducted three reviews before deciding on legislation.

http://wales.gov.uk/about/cabinet/cabinetstatements/2010/100224shock/?lang=en

runawaybishop wrote: »

I would be interested to see the research on this.

It is common sense. A dog can only breach a proper fence if it is not adequately constructed. An electronic fence can fail for many reasons. To name but a few:

Power cuts
Broken boundary wire
Collar too loose
Faulty collar electronics
Faulty base electronics
Flat battery
Dog ignores the shock

runawaybishop wrote: »

There is the possibilty that that bill will be repealed also. A lot of things are possible, lets stick to what is actually the case though.

The case is that Vets, Animal Welfare organisations, SPCA's, Kennel Clubs, Dog Trainers etc oppose shock collars.

runawaybishop

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Exactly why is this hyperbole?

http://bit.ly/tlTn7H

TooManyDogs wrote: »

The point is that she got her collar caught in the shock zone, so the collar repeatedly shocked her, dangerous situation

The point is the dog got a collar caught. The type is not relevant.

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Yes they were properly trained, the training does not take into account the determination of the individual dogs, failure in the line meaning that the dog learns when they can cross the barrier, they are not guaranteed or in anyway as secure as a proper fence. They are not a fail safe solution for every dog and by the time you discover they don't work for your dog you've already spent between €200 and €500 which could have bought a secure run for the dog

Proper training means that your dog wont approach the fence and will never proceed past the audible warning anyway. There is a huge difference between 500 euro and 80

Discodog wrote: »

In the link that I provided the Vet described experiencing the shock, live on TV, as a "very unpleasant experience"

I could make a youtube video of me describing the collar as lovely and exciting. Test it for yourself rather than going by an overreaction from someone trying to boost his profile.

Discodog wrote: »

The Kennel Club conducted a survey & 70% of respondents disapproved of their use. The ban has been welcomed by the RSPCA, Dogs Trust, Blue Cross etc. Someone has already received a £2000 fine for using a shock collar.

I'm not really interested in what people "think" - I am interested in studies carried out by people who know what they are talking about.

Discodog wrote: »

It is common sense. A dog can only breach a proper fence if it is not adequately constructed. An electronic fence can fail for many reasons. To name but a few:

You stated - "The chances of escape are many times higher with an electronic fence than a real one". You have no proof for this, nor have you provided any actual evidence.

Discodog wrote: »

The case is that Vets, Animal Welfare organisations, SPCA's, Kennel Clubs, Dog Trainers etc oppose shock collars.

And i can find people that use and approve of them and remote training collars also.

ShaShaBear

runawaybishop wrote: »

http://bit.ly/tlTn7H


The point is the dog got a collar caught. The type is not relevant.



No, the point is that because the dog got stuck, it was shocked repeatedly until someone freed it. If it were a regular collar, she'd just be stuck, not getting electrocuted in the process. Of course the type of collar is relevant, jeez.

Discodog

runawaybishop wrote: »

http://bit.ly/tlTn7H

Instead of posting a sarcastic link to the google definition of a word why don't you post some real links ? I have given many from valid sources who oppose shock collars.

Why don't you do the same for those that support their use other than links to the manufacturers or retailers that sell them ?

You are accusing people of lying & misrepresentation but you have posted nothing in support of your claims.

TooManyDogs

runawaybishop wrote: »

TooManyDogs wrote:

Exactly why is this hyperbole?

http://bit.ly/tlTn7H

I asked you HOW is it hyperbole, not WHAT is hyperbole. Simple question I would have thought but I guess you don't have the guts to call me a liar to my face.

runawaybishop wrote: »

The point is the dog got a collar caught. The type is not relevant.

The type is very relavent, you're showing your ignorance to suggest otherwise

runawaybishop wrote: »

There is a huge difference between 500 euro and 80

My system, plus extra wire and 3 extra collars came to a total of €487, would you like to see the receipt?