What happens if you forcfully remove a wheel clamp?

Mr.Success

What happens if you kept a generator and angle grinder in your car/van and got tempted?

Delancey

A charge of Criminal Damage for starters.....

12 element

Delancey wrote: »

A charge of Criminal Damage for starters.....

What's the penalty for criminal damage?

FreudianSlippers

On summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding the Euro equivalent of £1,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, and on conviction on indictment to a fine not exceeding the Euro equivalent of £10,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.

NoQuarter

Apparently exposes you to theft if you move the clamp too!

ted1

Delancey wrote: »

A charge of Criminal Damage for starters.....

Nonsense, no charges will be brought. Clampers are afraid of bringing a case as when they lose legal precedents will be set.

FreudianSlippers

ted1 wrote: »

Nonsense, no charges will be brought. Clampers are afraid of bringing a case as when they lose legal precedents will be set.

Care to elaborate?

source

ted1 wrote: »

Delancey wrote: »

A charge of Criminal Damage for starters.....

Nonsense, no charges will be brought. Clampers are afraid of bringing a case as when they lose legal precedents will be set.

Bull crap, I've had a stolen/damaged clamp reported to me, which was investigated fully. They do report it when their property is stolen/damaged.

Jesus Shaves

source wrote: »

Bull crap, I've had a stolen/damaged clamp reported to me, which was investigated fully. They do report it when their property is stolen/damaged.

And what was the outcome of the investigation?

BrianD

ted1 wrote: »

Nonsense, no charges will be brought. Clampers are afraid of bringing a case as when they lose legal precedents will be set.

Depends who and where you were clamped. An on street clamp is well covered by law. On private property is where it's a bit muddy.

deadwood

BrianD wrote: »

Depends who and where you were clamped. .

Usually round the front nearside wheel.

MagicSean

There has yet to be a case stated. Personally I'd be recommending both parties be charged, one with criminal damage and the other with interfering with the mechanism of a vehicle. It seems the government are perfectly happy with the head in the sand approach on this issue.

source

darokane wrote: »

And what was the outcome of the investigation?

It turned out that she had given the clamp to the car park attendant in the car park she had parked in, so I couldn't prove theft.

I had to recommend criminal damage for the lock, but as the clamping company never got back to me and never returned any of my calls, I was able to strike out the charge in court.

ted1

source wrote: »

It turned out that she had given the clamp to the car park attendant in the car park she had parked in, so I couldn't prove theft.

I had to recommend criminal damage for the lock, but as the clamping company never got back to me and never returned any of my calls, I was able to strike out the charge in court.

so it backs up my point that clampers won't proceed.

also you could stick a notice on your windscreen, saying that any clamp attached to the Vehicle will be forceabbly removed an a storage fee of x will be charged per day. to reclaim clamp from stroage email **@**.**

This will form a contract.

but Briand is correct, i would never anyone advise anyone to interfer with a councils clamp or an agent working on their behalf.

MagicSean

ted1 wrote: »

so it backs up my point that clampers won't prceed.

also you could stick a notice on your windscreen, saying that any clamp attached to the Vehicle will be forceabbly removed an a storage fee of x will be charged per day. to reclaim clamp from stroage email **@**.**

This will form a contract.

Only if you've redefined what a contract is in a legal sense.

As long as it's on private property (don't touch a council clamp!), and no one sees you doing it, it's fair game.

When you cut it off, take the clamp and lock with you. If there is no evidence, they cannot prove a crime has taken. For all you know if the Gardaí come to talk with you, play stupid and say "there was no clamp on my vehicle when I returned to it" If they say anything else, just say "prove it...". The photos they take are nothing! They only prove a clamped was placed on your vehicle, doesn't prove who removed it!

I carry an angle grinder, 12V fully charged battery and this in the boot of my car.

Little tip: An angle grinder goes through hardened steel like a hot knife through butter

Jesus Shaves

source wrote: »

darokane wrote: »

And what was the outcome of the investigation?

It turned out that she had given the clamp to the car park attendant in the car park she had parked in, so I couldn't prove theft.

I had to recommend criminal damage for the lock, but as the clamping company never got back to me and never returned any of my calls, I was able to strike out the charge in court.

Interesting, technically you could remove a clamp and as long as their Is no evidence to say you've removed it you could get away with it
"there was no clamp on my car when I got to it"

FreudianSlippers

Deleted User wrote: »

As long as it's on private property (don't touch a council clamp!), and no one sees you doing it, it's fair game.

When you cut it off, take the clamp and lock with you. If there is no evidence, they cannot prove a crime has taken. For all you know if the Gardaí come to talk with you, play stupid and say "there was no clamp on my vehicle when I returned to it" If they say anything else, just say "prove it...". The photos they take are nothing! They only prove a clamped was placed on your vehicle, doesn't prove who removed it!

I carry an angle grinder, 12V fully charged battery and this in the boot of my car.

Little tip: An angle grinder goes through hardened steel like a hot knife through butter

Section 4 Criminal Damage Act 1991:
A person (in this section referred to as the possessor) who has any thing in his custody or under his control intending without lawful excuse to use it or cause or permit another to use it—

(a) to damage any property belonging to some other person, or

(b) to damage his own or the intended user's property—

(i) in a way which he knows is likely to endanger the life of a person other than the possessor, or

(ii) with intent to defraud,

shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable—

(A) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, and

(B) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding £10,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.

FreudianSlippers

darokane wrote: »

Interesting, technically you could remove a clamp and as long as their Is no evidence to say you've removed it you could get away with it
"there was no clamp on my car when I got to it"

Presumably that's why they take pictures of the car with the clamp on.

Jesus Shaves

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Presumably that's why they take pictures of the car with the clamp on.

I hear what you're saying but that still doesn't mean that it couldn't be removed by another party in between the time it was clamped and when you got back to your car. Technically.

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Section 4 Criminal Damage Act 1991:
A person (in this section referred to as the possessor) who has any thing in his custody or under his control intending without lawful excuse to use it or cause or permit another to use it—

(a) to damage any property belonging to some other person, or

(b) to damage his own or the intended user's property—

(i) in a way which he knows is likely to endanger the life of a person other than the possessor, or

(ii) with intent to defraud,

shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable—

(A) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or both, and

(B) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding £10,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 10 years or both.

How could it be proved that I would intend on doing something unlawful with the items?

I should probably remove the lock picking set from the car so

Edit:
I could say, the battery is for my golf trolley, which I use every Sunday (and I could have 10+ people to prove that).
I could say that the power inverter is to power my laptop (which is also in the car 95% of the time I'm in it).

FreudianSlippers

Deleted User wrote: »

How could it be proved that I would intend on doing something unlawful with the items?

I should probably remove the lock picking set from the car so

Edit:
I could say, the battery is for my golf buggy, which I use every Sunday (and I could have 10+ people to prove that).
I could say that the power inverter is to power my laptop (which is also in the car 95% of the time I'm in it).

Perhaps the post you just quoted would be sufficient evidence.

FreudianSlippers

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Perhaps the post you just quoted would be sufficient evidence.

Fair enough. I guess I'll just removed the grinder, and leave the other stuff there. And keep €30 in car for rental of a consaw.

cup of tea

Judge ruled clamping illegal at WIT 18/1/2007
Judge William Harnett ruled at Waterford district court last week that WIT has no authority to clamp the Vehicles of people who park illegally at its cork road campus.

The case originated when a clamp was removed from a car by its owner on January 5th last year. The judge ruled that the owner was entitled to remove something that was stuck to his car by whatever means and if it damages his car, he was entitled to claim damages.

While there where notices up in the car park informing motorists that clamping was in operation, Judge Harnett ruled that there were no laws to support that notice before dismissing the case.

WITSU expects that WIT will seek legal clarification on this matter and that clamping will continue for now. WITSU welcomes the ruling that clamping is illegal, however does not encourage motorists to park in dangerous or unhelpful positions.

MagicSean

Deleted User wrote: »

How could it be proved that I would intend on doing something unlawful with the items?

I should probably remove the lock picking set from the car so

Edit:
I could say, the battery is for my golf trolley, which I use every Sunday (and I could have 10+ people to prove that).
I could say that the power inverter is to power my laptop (which is also in the car 95% of the time I'm in it).

Perhaps you should take a look at the Theft Act

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0015.html#sec15

MagicSean

MagicSean wrote: »

Perhaps you should take a look at the Theft Act

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2001/en/act/pub/0050/sec0015.html#sec15

Thanks! Grinder already removed from boot, after other posters post

MagicSean

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks! Grinder already removed from boot, after other posters post

i was referring more to the lockpicks.

monkeypants

If someone puts a clamp on your car, are you responsible for it? I mean, have I somehow taken custody of the clamp and it's up to me to ensure its return to the clamper?

If someone drives up, attaches something to my car and leaves it there, is that not a form of abandonment? If I leave something on the street and walk away, I don't expect it to be there when I come back. Could be considered littering?

[I'm not a lawyer by any stretch, but I find certain threads in this forum intriguing.]

MagicSean

MagicSean wrote: »

i was referring more to the lockpicks.

But I have so much fun with them...

They're gone

sally139sally

hello, i am looking for a bit of advice. i live in an apt block which we all have one parking spot per household. We are having a problem with a resident who will not park in his own space but prefers to take up a visitors space day in and day out because his own car space is a little further away (which isnt really that far ). We all have been onto our management company who has done very little but he got clamped once and he cut off the clamp so now the management company are saying they will not clamp him cause he keeps cutting them off. so now he's allowed to park there all the time which is unfair on other residents who's visitors sometimes have no where to park and to see a resident in a space when he clearly has his own spot is ridiculous. We cannot allow our visitors to park in his car space or our visitors will be clamped as we all have a parking permit with our household no's on it. What can we do i would gladly take some advise.

Recurve360

sally139sally wrote: »

hello, i am looking for a bit of advice. i live in an apt block which we all have one parking spot per household. We are having a problem with a resident who will not park in his own space but prefers to take up a visitors space day in and day out because his own car space is a little further away (which isnt really that far ). We all have been onto our management company who has done very little but he got clamped once and he cut off the clamp so now the management company are saying they will not clamp him cause he keeps cutting them off. so now he's allowed to park there all the time which is unfair on other residents who's visitors sometimes have no where to park and to see a resident in a space when he clearly has his own spot is ridiculous. We cannot allow our visitors to park in his car space or our visitors will be clamped as we all have a parking permit with our household no's on it. What can we do i would gladly take some advise.

It may not be ethical but I would actually just deflate the air in his tyres day in day out until he goes back to his own space. Dont slash em, just put something in the valve and let the air down slowly. Within a week I guarantee he will be back to parking in his own space. Also more importantly dont get caught.

emeldc

sally139sally wrote: »

hello, i am looking for a bit of advice. i live in an apt block which we all have one parking spot per household. We are having a problem with a resident who will not park in his own space but prefers to take up a visitors space day in and day out because his own car space is a little further away (which isnt really that far ). We all have been onto our management company who has done very little but he got clamped once and he cut off the clamp so now the management company are saying they will not clamp him cause he keeps cutting them off. so now he's allowed to park there all the time which is unfair on other residents who's visitors sometimes have no where to park and to see a resident in a space when he clearly has his own spot is ridiculous. We cannot allow our visitors to park in his car space or our visitors will be clamped as we all have a parking permit with our household no's on it. What can we do i would gladly take some advise.

Tell the management co that if any of your guests get clamped while parking in his space that you'll cut the clamp off just like he does. You really need to shout a little louder at the management co.

Graham

Recurve360 wrote: »

It may not be ethical but I would actually just deflate the air in his tyres day in day out until he goes back to his own space. Dont slash em, just put something in the valve and let the air down slowly. Within a week I guarantee he will be back to parking in his own space. Also more importantly dont get caught.

I don't think a charge for criminal damage will do the OP many favours.

ZWords

sally139sally wrote: »

hello, i am looking for a bit of advice. i live in an apt block which we all have one parking spot per household. We are having a problem with a resident who will not park in his own space but prefers to take up a visitors space day in and day out because his own car space is a little further away (which isnt really that far ). We all have been onto our management company who has done very little but he got clamped once and he cut off the clamp so now the management company are saying they will not clamp him cause he keeps cutting them off. so now he's allowed to park there all the time which is unfair on other residents who's visitors sometimes have no where to park and to see a resident in a space when he clearly has his own spot is ridiculous. We cannot allow our visitors to park in his car space or our visitors will be clamped as we all have a parking permit with our household no's on it. What can we do i would gladly take some advise.

Best to just repaint his space "visitor" and the visitor space with his number and forget about it...

FreudianSlippers

Recurve360 wrote: »

It may not be ethical but I would actually just deflate the air in his tyres day in day out until he goes back to his own space. Dont slash em, just put something in the valve and let the air down slowly. Within a week I guarantee he will be back to parking in his own space. Also more importantly dont get caught.

This is probably the stupidest advice I have read on this website in a Long, long time. Congratulations, you've reminded me not to bother,

rubadub

ZWords wrote: »

Best to just repaint his space "visitor" and the visitor space with his number and forget about it...

I can think of another word I would paint in "his spot"

Pat Mustard

Recurve360 wrote: »

It may not be ethical but I would actually just deflate the air in his tyres day in day out until he goes back to his own space. Dont slash em, just put something in the valve and let the air down slowly. Within a week I guarantee he will be back to parking in his own space. Also more importantly dont get caught.

Mod:

Please do not advocate illegal activity.

zynaps

The question of whether it's legal to use lockpicks to remove a clamp is interesting, regardless of whether the car was legally or illegally clamped (the latter case is probably more justifiable, since even if you are breaking the law, it is to prevent a greater crime).

The wording of the Theft Act suggests that use (and possession) of picks is only a crime if it is accompanied with intent to cause a crime, or (and this part is silly) if they were created or acquired for an illegal purpose, which seems exceedingly difficult to prove and is probably equivalent to either criminal intent or actual use in a theft.

They could do with rewriting the act to be more specific on that point.

Pro Hoc Vice

ted1 wrote: »

Nonsense, no charges will be brought. Clampers are afraid of bringing a case as when they lose legal precedents will be set.

Was in court during the week there was just such a case.

zynaps

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Was in court during the week there was just such a case.

Interesting! Could you share any details that may enlighten the discussion? Other than the fact that they are unafraid of taking such cases to court, which is useful on its own.

Pro Hoc Vice

zynaps wrote: »

Interesting! Could you share any details that may enlighten the discussion? Other than the fact that they are unafraid of taking such cases to court, which is useful on its own.

AGS took the case there was two charges was not paying attention, but it was stated a couple of times by counsel that the clampers had been fully compensated for the damaged clamp.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

AGS took the case there was two charges was not paying attention, but it was stated a couple of times by counsel that the clampers had been fully compensated for the damaged clamp.

You don't happen to know if the owners of the clamp were a council, or a private company?

Pro Hoc Vice

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

You don't happen to know if the owners of the clamp were a council, or a private company?

It was my opinion it was a private company, based on the way counsel stated "the company" had been compensated. Also found this http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/forcibly-removing-wheel-clamp-cost-driver-550-233945.html from a few years ago.

nuac

deadwood wrote: »

Usually round the front nearside wheel.

/Mod//
stay helpful pls. Smart remarks can be made somewhere else

colm_mcm

Smart remark was made 4 years ago

Mankyspuds

colm_mcm wrote: »

Smart remark was made 4 years ago

PWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
/Mod//
ANy chance of keeping this to legal discussion of some kind?

AZTEC818

Regarding Clamping: I've often wondered (if anyone knows)

What would happen if you street parked illegally and put your OWN clamp on the drivers front wheel ?

Are they allowed to put a clamp on any other wheel ?

rubadub

AZTEC818 wrote: »

Are they allowed to put a clamp on any other wheel ?

I would guess they legally can, but if you put 4 clamps on they physically can't.

endacl

AZTEC818 wrote: »

Regarding Clamping: I've often wondered (if anyone knows)

What would happen if you street parked illegally and put your OWN clamp on the drivers front wheel ?

Are they allowed to put a clamp on any other wheel ?

Doesn't matter. They can lift and impound...

cowboyBuilder

I always wished I had the balls to remove a clamp - I remember some lad removed the wheel and left it there and drove off - made the front page of the Irish times

Losty Dublin

endacl wrote: »

Doesn't matter. They can lift and impound...

Or they could levy the parking ticket as well.