Trained hunters inspection and certification course

rmnrgn

For the attention of all the deer stalkers on boards.

The NARGC have launched the above course on December 15th last. Essentially it allows for certified hunters who sell venison to a licenced game dealer from having to bring the head and pluck of the beast with them.

In theory the course sounds interesting and is also of value to hunters who also keep vension for their own larder.

However the course costs 340 euro and the booklet is another 35 euro.

Am I alone in thinking that the numbers signing up for this course will be fairly low, who wants to spend that much money on a course that allows you to tick one box over another on the dealers form? Who is making that much money from selling game to cover the cost?

Are NARGC (inadvertantly) preventing hunters from upskilling by providing courses at such a cost?

hunterpajero

its a joke the price of it i for one will not be doing it

mr.pricket

I wont be either simply because nargc are runnin

rowa

It seems anything to do with shooting is turning into a money making racket in the past couple of years , range officers courses , safety courses , firearms handling courses and the likes of this.

rmnrgn

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mr.pricket I wont be either simply because nargc are runnin
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So would you undertake the course and pay the fee if it was run by the Countryside Alliance or the Irish Deer Society?

mr.pricket

No same goes unless it was law

Gonzor

rowa wrote: »

It seems anything to do with shooting is turning into a money making racket in the past couple of years , range officers courses , safety courses , firearms handling courses and the likes of this.

You're right about the money making end of it, but the problem is the courses are crap.

Just last week I saw a lad looking down the barrel of a shotgun because it misfired :eek: (this is a guy who took the course not even a month ago :rolleyes: )

I cant speak for everybody providing competency courses but I know some of them are an absolute joke.... :mad: Literally a guy comes along spends about 3-5 minutes explaining what the different parts of the gun are and then tells you dont point it at anyone and thats it really. They dont even mention anything on how to clean the damn gun...

Id like to see some 'real' competency courses introduced.

While we are on the subject (I'll probably get stick for this one) but Id like to see a mandatory course for hunters on bird/mammal recognition and a good understanding of laws & seasons. I dont know how many lads I have seen shooting birds out of season, or shooting curlew or whimbrels thinking its a snipe, or brent goose thinking its a canadian :rolleyes: ANd other lads thinking "protected" only means protected from being shot with a rifle but OK to shoot with a shotgun :rolleyes:

juice1304

Gonzor wrote: »

Id like to see some 'real' competency courses introduced.

there are some, the nra course's are very good. I did the pistol one with my girlfriend as she had never shot before and thought they covered all relevant information. Before doing the course she was afraid of even touching a pistol and on completion of the course she felt confident enough shooting one. you get a booklet with all safety info, cleaning etc.. and a short test at the end.
i think the rifle course is help over two days.

Gonzor

juice1304 wrote: »

the nra course....
....i think the rifle course is help over two days.

Now that sounds good. My own competency course a few years back lasted about 30 mins. But these days they seem to be finishing up (like I said) in about 3-5 mins :rolleyes:

Just curious, how much are those NRA courses. My mate got his own (5 minute) competency course free because he bought the gun from them. My own course was 40euro (although I have to say that included some clay shooting)

Witcher

Gonzor wrote: »

Just curious, how much are those NRA courses. My mate got his own (5 minute) competency course free because he bought the gun from them. My own course was 40euro (although I have to say that included some clay shooting)

I did the NRA rifle course for my licence, there were only 5 guys so it was done in one day rather than the two it normally takes. It cost €125(the two day course is €150 I believe), it's broken into classroom time and range time. As juice said you get a booklet going ovr all you learned plus the certificate.

Gonzor

Blay wrote: »

I did the NRA rifle course for my licence, there were only 5 guys so it was done in one day rather than the two it normally takes. It cost €125(the two day course is €150 I believe), it's broken into classroom time and range time. As juice said you get a booklet going ovr all you learned plus the certificate.

Im really liking the sound of that NRA course. Sounds to be the real deal.

Now, if only we could stamp out these money racket mickey mouse courses :mad:

Witcher

Gonzor wrote: »

Im really liking the sound of that NRA course. Sounds to be the real deal.

Now, if only we could stamp out these money racket mickey mouse courses :mad:

Yeah it's pretty good, we learned about using different actions(bolt, s/a) and using both iron sights and scopes, shooting positions etc. Pretty much anything you could think of was covered.

Hunter21

Gonzor wrote: »

You're right about the money making end of it, but the problem is the courses are crap.

Just last week I saw a lad looking down the barrel of a shotgun because it misfired :eek: (this is a guy who took the course not even a month ago :rolleyes: )

I cant speak for everybody providing competency courses but I know some of them are an absolute joke.... :mad: Literally a guy comes along spends about 3-5 minutes explaining what the different parts of the gun are and then tells you dont point it at anyone and thats it really. They dont even mention anything on how to clean the damn gun...

Id like to see some 'real' competency courses introduced.

While we are on the subject (I'll probably get stick for this one) but Id like to see a mandatory course for hunters on bird/mammal recognition and a good understanding of laws & seasons. I dont know how many lads I have seen shooting birds out of season, or shooting curlew or whimbrels thinking its a snipe, or brent goose thinking its a canadian :rolleyes: ANd other lads thinking "protected" only means protected from being shot with a rifle but OK to shoot with a shotgun :rolleyes:

Stereotyping much!!??
Not all of these competency courses are as badly given to new gun applicants as you say.
Around these parts it lasts for more then an hour and that doesn't include questions from those attending and those who do it are good firearms handlers.

Also there is enough red tape already! No need to introduce more because folk teaching the course in your area are not good instructors.

dermot218

340 is a bit steep if it was 100 it wouldnt be so bad if they think that this course is going to stop poaching there wrong

cavan shooter

No point getting excited, and some people tend to, nobody needs do this unless your selling game. That was made clear by the NARGC

It's supply and demand, listening to the PTB there is a demand for this course and some interest so if you want to do it and you have the money to do it bang away and do it I believe in life long learning you might actually pick up something useful.

Out of interest how much is the HCAP.

As for the Poaching agree 100% nothing will stop them except jail time

johngalway

€340 :eek: Would nearly tax my car for a year.

cavan shooter

Gonzor wrote: »

You're right about the money making end of it, but the problem is the courses are crap.

Just last week I saw a lad looking down the barrel of a shotgun because it misfired :eek: (this is a guy who took the course not even a month ago :rolleyes: )

I cant speak for everybody providing competency courses but I know some of them are an absolute joke.... :mad: Literally a guy comes along spends about 3-5 minutes explaining what the different parts of the gun are and then tells you dont point it at anyone and thats it really. They dont even mention anything on how to clean the damn gun...

Id like to see some 'real' competency courses introduced.

While we are on the subject (I'll probably get stick for this one) but Id like to see a mandatory course for hunters on bird/mammal recognition and a good understanding of laws & seasons. I dont know how many lads I have seen shooting birds out of season, or shooting curlew or whimbrels thinking its a snipe, or brent goose thinking its a canadian :rolleyes: ANd other lads thinking "protected" only means protected from being shot with a rifle but OK to shoot with a shotgun :rolleyes:

That is a joke but you cant blame a course on that one. Think about it people do training courses or learn to drive cars then go out and do silly things, including drive at inappropriate speeds. Do you blame the course on that one? The Manadatory course you talk about exists but its not mandatory The NARGC proficiency course covers that kind of stuff, in fact you can now get the course book herehttp://shop.nargc.ie/products/handbook-the-nargc-proficiency-course-by-nargc

if your into game shooting it's a good enough course.

Sparks

You're not really going to get a course setup that everyone's happy with though CS. I mean, if you made it a FETAC course, you'd address worries over the course not being good enough, but then the course would take time and money (first aid FETAC courses take several days fulltime, for example, and that's about the level you'd need for a neophyte).

Alternatively, you could do it the way PPLs are done, with some coursework and some written tests and then a log of hours spent in practice. But how many people would go for the paperwork load of just keeping a logbook?

And if you go the other way, making the course fit to people's time constraints and lack of desire to put themselves out, then you wind up with a course that's not worth doing.

You have to decide on a course setup that leaves you with as low an entry barrier to the sports as possible, as high a quality of training as possible, and a fair price, and then say feck the begrudgers, I suppose - but you'll hear a sudden cacophony of outraged screaming when people find they have to sit such a course (which will probably happen six years down the line, given how much attention people seem to pay to news of changes in their sport...)

rmnrgn

but you'll hear a sudden cacophony of outraged screaming when people find they have to sit such a course (which will probably happen six years down the line, given how much attention people seem to pay to news of changes in their sport...)

This is why I'm asking whether courses such as the Hunter certification and the HCAP are worth doing now. The powers that be will eventually get around to formulating a comprehensive deer management policy which will require hunters to have a minimum proficiency before a licence is issued to them. Completion of an objective course will be seen as a sign of competency. No course= no deer licence, no deer licence= no justification for your centrefire rifle which leads us back to the days of poachers shooting deer with underpowered firearms and will piss off genuine sportsmen.

Tackleberrywho

rmnrgn wrote: »

This is why I'm asking whether courses such as the Hunter certification and the HCAP are worth doing now. The powers that be will eventually get around to formulating a comprehensive deer management policy which will require hunters to have a minimum proficiency before a licence is issued to them. Completion of an objective course will be seen as a sign of competency. No course= no deer licence, no deer licence= no justification for your centrefire rifle which leads us back to the days of poachers shooting deer with underpowered firearms and will piss off genuine sportsmen.

If you wanted a good heads up, look at the video David Dunne made.
It is not perfect and made withh basic filming equipment, but the instruction is clear and concise.
Carcass handling is excellant, and very good for hints and tips.
The best thing is you can watch it over and over again in the off season.

johngalway

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

If you wanted a good heads up, look at the video David Dunne made.
It is not perfect and made withh basic filming equipment, but the instruction is clear and concise.
Carcass handling is excellant, and very good for hints and tips.
The best thing is you can watch it over and over again in the off season.

Have you got a link for that Tack? I was looking for it the last night after you mentioned it. Came up with two vids, no audio, of skinning deer quickly but I don't think that was it

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

Have you got a link for that Tack? I was looking for it the last night after you mentioned it. Came up with two vids, no audio, of skinning deer quickly but I don't think that was it

It's 30 quid for sale in Most RFD's AFAIK.
The only Video I have ever seen that is suited for Ireland.

johngalway

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

It's 30 quid for sale in Most RFD's AFAIK.
The only Video I have ever seen that is suited for Ireland.

Ah, I thought it was on YouTube!

Tackleberrywho

johngalway wrote: »

Ah, I thought it was on YouTube!

Nope, I think it's 30, could be 20 or 25, I'm doubting myself now .

he has one on fallow, and one on red.
The Fallow is the best IMHO.

Great nights entertainment whilst drinking Budvar

Tackleberrywho

http://www.airgunspares.com/store/product/3435/Deer-Hunting-in-Ireland/

Not sure what price that is in yoyo's including delivery.
Well worth a look for all experience levels.

Grizzly 45

What puts me off it are two things.
City&Guilds certified..London city and guilds have no knowledge ,have not heard of,or idea about this course! If it is a genuine C&G course it has to have a C&G course number...END OF! and buyer beware.

I cant see any benefit to this as all you are doing is a certified dept of Agriculture Vets job,and putting them out of work.If you dont have this qualification,what harm the carcass is still inspected by somone better qualified and trained than you will be,and if anything goes wrong you dont get it in the neck.The Vet does,as they signed off on it.

As for the future,we had this malarkey in the private eye sector in both the UK and NI,and possibly in the ROI of qualifications and liscensing.The consensus has been that if you can prove that you have been in the busisness over a certain time period [ten years] you will be automatically granted your liscense as you are assumed to have aquired the experiance over time served.
Cant see why this cant be done here as well.
I've been hunting fur and feather for over 35 years now on two different continents,what exactly are you going to teach me in the fundamentals that I dont already know here in Ireland?I'd say I wont be the only person here either in that boat.:p

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

City&Guilds certified..London city and guilds have no knowledge ,have not heard of,or idea about this course! If it is a genuine C&G course it has to have a C&G course number...END OF! and buyer beware.

Have you checked with C&G recently about this Grizz?

http://www.cityandguilds.com/72533.html

(Also, I wouldn't expect a C&G accredited course to have a C&G course number necessarily since they're only doing the final exams, not the course training itself).

4gun

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

What puts me off it are two things.
City&Guilds certified..London city and guilds have no knowledge ,have not heard of,or idea about this course! If it is a genuine C&G course it has to have a C&G course number...END OF! and buyer beware.

I cant see any benefit to this as all you are doing is a certified dept of Agriculture Vets job,and putting them out of work.If you dont have this qualification,what harm the carcass is still inspected by somone better qualified and trained than you will be,and if anything goes wrong you dont get it in the neck.The Vet does,as they signed off on it.

As for the future,we had this malarkey in the private eye sector in both the UK and NI,and possibly in the ROI of qualifications and liscensing.The consensus has been that if you can prove that you have been in the busisness over a certain time period [ten years] you will be automatically granted your liscense as you are assumed to have aquired the experiance over time served.
Cant see why this cant be done here as well.
I've been hunting fur and feather for over 35 years now on two different continents,what exactly are you going to teach me in the fundamentals that I dont already know here in Ireland?I'd say I wont be the only person here either in that boat.:p

If this course allows a hunter to do the job of a vet in declaring the carcass fit for human consumption...will the huter then need an other form of insurance if he gets it wrong and causes food poisening. the dealer will surley pass the buck in that case

just a thought...

I can see it paying for an average stalker to do this course, no doubt in a few years thewre will be a refresher course to be paid for,
might be worth the while for a few professional stalkers,

323

cavan shooter wrote: »

No point getting excited, and some people tend to, nobody needs do this unless your selling game. That was made clear by the NARGC

It's supply and demand, listening to the PTB there is a demand for this course and some interest so if you want to do it and you have the money to do it bang away and do it I believe in life long learning you might actually pick up something useful.

Out of interest how much is the HCAP.

As for the Poaching agree 100% nothing will stop them except jail time

Agree 100%

Who will enforce this with game dealers? Some other NGO/Quango?

Regardless of what the NARGC say, can't see this making any differance. As, a number of game dealers doing the rounds collecting carcass' round my way all winter (before this course). Have heard one taking whole at one price and another taking fully skinned cleaned/head removed carcass' at another (higher) price/kg.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Have you checked with C&G recently about this Grizz?

http://www.cityandguilds.com/72533.html

(Also, I wouldn't expect a C&G accredited course to have a C&G course number necessarily since they're only doing the final exams, not the course training itself).

Reply to my addy @14:45 26 Nov 2011

Thank you for contacting City & Guilds Customer Relations.
We have no course with this title on our system, and we can also not locate this centre on our database, we would advise you to contact the centre directly, and ask them for their City & Guilds centre number, which is a number we provide to all our approved centres, and to obtain the qualification number, again all our courses have this number, if they are unable to provide you with any of this information, then they are not one of our approved centres.
Should you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact the Customer Relations team on 0844 543 0033.
Yours sincerely

Nadine Roache
Customer Relations Advisor | Customer Relations
City & Guilds - Believe you can
T: Centres 0844 543 0000 / T: Learner 0844 543 0033
T: International +44 207 294 2885 / F: +44 (0) 207 294 413
www.cityandguilds.com
City & Guilds, 1 Giltspur Street, London, EC1A 9DD


So they must have sorted this then recently.:cool:
BUT irrespective,this course makes no sense in the Irish context and shows its EU big Brother burrocrat origins again!!
In the EU you are allowed as a qualified hunter to sell your game directly to the public and straight into the food chain..This is where this course makes 100% sense then.

Its illegal for anyone to do this in the ROI.You sell it to a middleman,the game dealer.So there are your safegaurds already in place,qualified game dealer,and qualified dept of Ag vet surgeon on call if game dealer is unsure of a carcass.Who are you cutting out of the loop with the course??The most qualified person,the Dept of Ag vet!!As usual cheap way and cut the cost of the best person to say yes or no!And nothing changes either..You continue as before selling the carcass to the dealer with head and guts.
So if you want an uptake on this course,change the law that game can be sold direct to the public,or dont lose any sleep about this.Or over 350 quid either!:D

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Reply to my addy @14:45 26 Nov 2011
...

So they must have sorted this then recently.:cool:

Must have, if it's on the C&G website.
Or, they sorted it with the Irish office of C&G, you were checking with the London office, and the two weren't synced up as yet.
Either way, it seems to be squared away now.
Mind you, why they went C&G instead of going FETAC escapes me...

In the EU you are allowed as a qualified hunter to sell your game directly to the public and straight into the food chain..This is where this course makes 100% sense then.

Its illegal for anyone to do this in the ROI.You sell it to a middleman,the game dealer.So there are your safegaurds already in place,qualified game dealer,and qualified dept of Ag vet surgeon on call if game dealer is unsure of a carcass.

Isn't this course set up to alter that?
If not, I have to agree that I can't see the point (other than the obvious one, ie. to learn something new in order to know something new)

Mind you, if you were a hunter who wasn't being brought on by an old hand, having a course available would seem to be a good thing even if it was a bit over-the-top in detail...

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

Must have, if it's on the C&G website.
Or, they sorted it with the Irish office of C&G, you were checking with the London office, and the two weren't synced up as yet.
Either way, it seems to be squared away now.
Mind you, why they went C&G instead of going FETAC escapes me...

Good,cos after having being burnt on a C&G course a few years ago,I'd be leery of anyone offering C&G qualifications.Since it was FAS that japped me on the last one.:eek::rolleyes:. Trust, but verify!;)

Isn't this course set up to alter that?
If not, I have to agree that I can't see the point (other than the obvious one, ie. to learn something new in order to know something new)

ASFIK,nothing changed on that point...??
In our case of old hands,how many ways can you skin a deer and look for signs of disease?

Mind you, if you were a hunter who wasn't being brought on by an old hand, having a course available would seem to be a good thing even if it was a bit over-the-top in detail...

Very much so,but you still have to do the time in the wild to be able to put theory into practise and gain the experiance.:D

91hilux

hi all
think about this
you spend your time getting licence,gun ,ammo and then with luck permission somewhere to shoot deer having spent sometime familarising your new ground ,spending x amount on diesel hopeing to get yourself a shot at one ,to field derss drag back to jeep then out of jeep into coldroom and be offered peanuts per kg off game dealer while he ships internationally to coin in an estemated 12 to 16 euro per kg,
??????????????????????????????:mad:
WHY DONT THE GAME DEALERS SUBSADISE PAYMENT ON THE COURSE TO THEIR REGULAR SUPPLIERS [YOU THE GENUINE STALKERS]
this in turn will be cheaper on you ,better supply for them since they will do away with x amount of payment on inspections [AND]keep track on WHO supplies genuine deer and NOT mass shooting carried out by certin people ////ie. with magnetic sighns on jeeps and vans and other night time prowlers
as i say
just a thought

Sparks

It would seem some of you lads touched a nerve.

From the NARGC website:

Response to Boards.ie re Safe Handling of Wild Game Course and Assessment

We are publishing this information in response to the ever present, ill-informed and begrudging commentary on Boards.ie.

edit: Awwww, diddums...

Country sports such as game shooting and deer stalking are popular in Ireland, but many of those involved do not feel confident in handling shot game, so that in preparing the meat they can be sure that it will taste good and will be presented in a hygienic way. The purpose of this course is to educate sportsmen about the species that are hunted, recognition of disease processes in both live and dead animals, handling and transport of carcases in the field and finally butchery and preparation for the table. Sale of game meat products, particularly venison, is growing. Game is low in price, low in cholesterol and a very healthy meat.

European Regulation 853 (2004) stipulates the training required by hunters so that they will be qualified to inspect game before it enters the food chain. To attain trained hunter status, candidates will need to attend an approved course with independent assessment which will cover the anatomy, physiology and behaviour of wild game, procedures for hygienic handling, transport and evisceration after killing and relevant legislation. Such a course and subsequent examination needs to be approved by the relevant authority. In the case of the Republic of Ireland, this responsibility lies with the Food Safety Authority of Ireland (FSAI). The NARGC/City & Guilds course “Certificate in the Principles of the Safe Handling of Wild Game Meat” for entry into the food chain (0230-01) is the only course approved by the FSAI under the EU Regulation. City & Guilds are the independent assessors. This is not a hunting course and therefore it is not at any level comparable with HCAP. The syllabus makes that obvious. It is clear that those who criticise the course and its cost know nothing of the syllabus and the standards which are required to be met. The fact that people who have no knowledge of the course and syllabus, and therefore no possible knowledge of what it would have cost to develop it from scratch, are prepared to criticise and condemn the course speaks volumes to the opening sentence of this information bulletin.

Why do this course?

• To better understand how to prepare game meat hygienically for personal use and for entry into the food chain.
• The Trained Hunter requirement will soon be compulsory for game meat offered for sale into the food chain under European Union Regulation (EC) 853/2004, asin all EU countries. Any game supplied to a Game Handling Establishment will have to be inspected and certified in such a way before delivery.

What is involved?

• FSAI require 30 hours training.
• Credits for 22 hours relate to the reading of the manual, ‘Safe Handling of Wild Game Meat’. It is important that candidates are fully familiar with the contents of the manual before attending the course. On the day of the course an open book examination will assess knowledge of the manual.
• 8 hours credit for attendance at this approved course.
• At the end of the day a further multiple choice examination will be supervised by a City & Guilds approved invigilator. Candidates must attain 40 out of 50 questions correct (an 80% pass rate).
• Successful candidates will be awarded a “Certificate in the Principles of the Safe Handling of Wild Game Meat for Entry into the Food Chain” (C&G Course 0230-01). edit: There you go Grizzly
• Those attaining the certificate will be awarded Trained Hunter status and a Registration Number by the FSAI.

Examination:

• Certificate in the principles of the safe handling of wild game meat for entry into the food chain.
• City & Guilds course number (0230-01).

Where is the course and assessment held?

The course and assessment is held in the Main Building at the Gorey Business Park, Gorey, Co Wexford which is the City & Guilds approved centre for this course.

What is the programme on the day of the assessment?

• Registration from 8.30am.
• Course start time 9.00 am sharp.
• Identification of Game Species.
• Ante Mortem Examination.
• Field Handling and Transportation.
• Evisceration and Carcase Inspection. (DVD)
• Small Game Carcase Inspection.
• Large Game Carcase Inspection.
• Notifiable Diseases.
• Legal Requirements and Record Keeping.
• Administration of Veterinary Medicines.
• Game Larder Hygiene.

General:

Please note the training day will be informal with plenty of time to ask questions. There will be plenty of breaks throughout the day and there will be a break before the examination. Lunch and refreshments will be provided.

Open Book Examination:

Open book examination assesses knowledge of the manual.

What is the cost and what is included in the cost?

Course and assessment:

The cost of the course and assessment is €340.

Includes:

• DVD of extraction, evisceration and inspection of game to FSAI requirements for every student.
• Cost of independent assessors.
• Cost of Independent invigilators.
• Cost of City & Guilds certification and registration.
• Cost of instructor/s.
• Course and assessment centre costs.
• Lunch for participants.
• Tea and coffee.

Manual:

The cost of the 160 page full colour course manual is separate at €35.

What are the learning outcomes?

• Understand the anatomy, behaviour and pathology of wild game.
• Understand how to control the production of game meat for human consumption.
• Understand the production of wild game after it has been submitted to an approved game meat establishment.
• Understand the legislative, administrative and hygienic conditions relevant to placing wild game on the market.
• Understand the importance of hygienic maintenance of storage facilities and equipment.
• Know the legal requirements on maintaining records.

One of these days, they might even pick up a trick from the likes of the ESB, O2, Three, Vodafone, Eircom, or other such utterly tiny little businesses and actually answer questions on here themselves instead of posting snarky notes like a bad passive-aggressive roommate leaving snippets of joy taped to the fridge...

Grizzly 45

Successful candidates will be awarded a “Certificate in the Principles of the Safe Handling of Wild Game Meat for Entry into the Food Chain” (C&G Course 0230-01).

Why couldnt they have posted that and all other revelant information in the first place is beyond me.:rolleyes:
Intresting that to try and verify things in Ireland not to mind discuss or even God forbid QUESTION them is considerd begrudging
and ill informed by some repersenting us supposedly!!!
Oh dear........Slippery slope there.



The Trained Hunter requirement will soon be compulsory for game meat offered for sale into the food chain under European Union Regulation (EC) 853/2004, asin all EU countries. Any game supplied to a Game Handling Establishment will have to be inspected and certified in such a way before delivery.

Define a "Game handling establishment"??
Is this supposed to be a game dealer??A resturant?Shop? Or your own kitchen???

BTW NARGC,you might want to check if our Continental colleuges can sell directly into the food chain or not???THEN this course would make more sense...Not us doing a dept of Ag vets job for free
and still selling to a middle man,who is STILL required to have the carcasses inspected.

Anyway,I'll enjoy the next second hand reply to these points...
Grow a pair would we lads and post your rebuttals here..:rolleyes::rolleyes:

homerhop

One of these days, they might even pick up a trick from the likes of the ESB, O2, Three, Vodafone, Eircom, or other such utterly tiny little businesses and actually answer questions on here themselves instead of posting snarky notes like a bad passive-aggressive roommate leaving snippets of joy taped to the fridge...

I thought that was the whole idea of internet forums, so one could ask questions and get answers, unlike them we dont get a 2 page spread in the ISD to have our little rants.Nice PR from a organisation "representing" the shooting community here in Ireland

cavan shooter

That's a very good and detailed, should answer lads applicable questions

johngalway

Coming from the corner who said hunters didn't want reloading I'm more happy than ever in not having anything to do with NARGC.

rmnrgn

If the information was available on the NARGC website in the first instance it might have gone some way to answering some of the comments posted on this site. The course seems very comprehensive and as I mentioned in the first post (contrary to the claim of being ever present, ill-informed and begrudging) seems to be worthwhile for all hunters, even those who shoot purely for their own larders.
However my initial point still remains valid, 340 euro plus 35 euro for a handbook is still a considerable outlay for any hunter. If such courses are to mandatory in the future, would the NARGC consider a reduction in costs given the numbers of hunters who would have to undertake it?
I'd email them personally but it seems that they already read this site and I'd hate to waste my time copy and pasting to their site too! :D:p

Invincible

johngalway wrote: »

Coming from the corner who said hunters didn't want reloading I'm more happy than ever in not having anything to do with NARGC.

"Sale of game meat products, particularly venison, is growing".
"The Trained Hunter requirement will soon be compulsory for game meat offered for sale into the food chain under European Union Regulation (EC) 853/2004, as in all EU countries"

I find this totally hypocritical as part of their Compensation Fund Contract, Part 6,section 3 states "No person involved in the Commercial Exploitation of game/pest species shall be entitled to be a Member of the Fund"

tfox

I'm assuming that if you do this course and attain the qualification that if you sell to a dealer he should give you a premium on the price as you're saving him money not having to pay for vet inspection and disposal of head and pluck :rolleyes:

Grizzly 45

Righhhtttt!!!Sure they will!!:D In what parallel universe Ireland is that happening???:P

4200fps

Invincible wrote: »

"Sale of game meat products, particularly venison, is growing".
"The Trained Hunter requirement will soon be compulsory for game meat offered for sale into the food chain under European Union Regulation (EC) 853/2004, as in all EU countries"

I find this totally hypocritical as part of their Compensation Fund Contract, Part 6,section 3 states "No person involved in the Commercial Exploitation of game/pest species shall be entitled to be a Member of the Fund"

So on one hand they are discouraging shooters from selling game and by providing this course they are promoting it:eek:.. This could only happen in Ireland with an Irish shooting organisation :rolleyes: .It clearly seems to be a money making racket.. I suppose I cant blame some people trying to screw more money out of the shooting folks

J. Ramone

Over €300 for a 1 day course is excessive. If they can get 20 candidates on a single day, that's over €6k. I'm assuming they are expecting to have a few days over time. I'm a member and supporter of the NARGC but on this one I get the impression that they are failing to deliver to their members or premium paying non members.

I'd love to see a breakdown of the cost of developing the course, C&G fees rent etc. I also note from the leaflet that there appears to be a sponsor.

cavan shooter

http://www.fsai.ie/uploadedFiles/Reg853_2004(1).pdf

It is all here from page 30 onwards makes interesting reading;)

From my reading of it market and game handling establishment are intrinsically linked in the wording.

cavan shooter

J. Ramone wrote: »

Over €300 for a 1 day course is excessive. If they can get 20 candidates on a single day, that's over €6k. I'm assuming they are expecting to have a few days over time. I'm a member and supporter of the NARGC but on this one I get the impression that they are failing to deliver to their members or premium paying non members.

I'd love to see a breakdown of the cost of developing the course, C&G fees rent etc. I also note from the leaflet that there appears to be a sponsor.

There is a discount to NARGC members I think, off the top of my head its reduced to €280.

kakashka

This is just the little boys club at the top trying to weed out as many of the unworthy as possible...this has been started and pushed by hunting orgs,The FSAI had no interest in this untill ^+ $ mentioned

cavan shooter

kakashka wrote: »

This is just the little boys club at the top trying to weed out as many of the unworthy as possible...this has been started and pushed by hunting orgs,The FSAI had no interest in this untill ^+ $ mentioned

The requirement along with other bits and pieces such as the selling of "raw milk":eek: is detailed in the regulation. I don't see a boys club. As I see it you have some choices at the minute
1. Do it
2. Don't do it
3. Keep flogging your deer untill you have to do it.

It looks like the NARGC have been cute enough to get a head on this one. The other organisations are playing catch up. More power to NARGC good catch however the field will level itself and there will be competition. The deer biys, the CAI will all offer it soon enough

kakashka

cavan shooter wrote: »

The requirement along with other bits and pieces such as the selling of "raw milk":eek: is detailed in the regulation. I don't see a boys club. As I see it you have some choices at the minute
1. Do it
2. Don't do it
3. Keep flogging your deer untill you have to do it.

It looks like the NARGC have been cute enough to get a head on this one. The other organisations are playing catch up. More power to NARGC good catch however the field will level itself and there will be competition. The deer biys, the CAI will all offer it soon enough

Raw milk!!!LOL
Get a head on this one???they STARTED it off FFS

johngalway

cavan shooter wrote: »

the selling of "raw milk":eek:

Discrimination against people who don't own cows, that's what that is.

Sparks

johngalway wrote: »

Discrimination against people who don't own cows, that's what that is.

You'd be laughing on the other side of your face about that one if you'd ever tried making decent cheese without the stuff...