Full Length Amateur Drama Circuit 2012

Vinny-Chase

I don't think it should be allowed to be honest. Personally I don't see how any one could take any satisfaction in winning competitions when your show is just a carbon copy. That's just my own personal opinion though.

Spoke to an audience member in Enniskillen who told me the 39 Steps show was move for move the same as the West End show. Spoke to someone in Dublin who said the same thing about Jerusalem.

brightspark

I'm in two minds about doing carbon copy shows.

One part of me says it's wrong, nothing original and effectively the director is really only an assistant director, the real director being the original west end one.

Another part says, well perhaps this is EXACTLY how the playwright wanted it and arranged with the original production crew to realise his vision. (this assumes that the playwright was involved with the original production)
Of course then does that mean the original director, set designer, lighting designer, sound designer etc should appear on the credits?

Of course in either case it takes considerable skill from the actors and technicians involved.

Maybe the solution would be to further reduce the marks for set, lights etc and increase the acting marks.
That would also result in less pressure on groups to create elaborate sets, but that may not be appreciated by audiences, who after all are the reason why plays are produced.

TrailerBob

brightspark wrote: »

Maybe the solution would be to further reduce the marks for set, lights etc and increase the acting marks.
That would also result in less pressure on groups to create elaborate sets, but that may not be appreciated by audiences, who after all are the reason why plays are produced.

To be honest i think technical crews get little enough recognition for their work as it is (speaking as primarily a set builder/technical fix guy but also act on circuit... I take more pride in my set work a lot of the time). Some festivals have stepped up and now offer a range of technical awards, but many still place acting as the only thing worth rewarding properly. As it is only 15% of marks go for presentation, which, for the time and effort we put into design, build, gathering of stage props, transport and assembly, is only acceptable.

Sets are getting better all the time, but need not be elaborate to be effective. I think if we're striving for the best standards from our amateur actors, then the same goes for technical crews. But personally i prefer original and innovative design

brightspark

TrailerBob wrote: »

To be honest i think technical crews get little enough recognition for their work as it is (speaking as primarily a set builder/technical fix guy but also act on circuit... I take more pride in my set work a lot of the time). Some festivals have stepped up and now offer a range of technical awards, but many still place acting as the only thing worth rewarding properly. As it is only 15% of marks go for presentation, which, for the time and effort we put into design, build, gathering of stage props, transport and assembly, is only acceptable.

Sets are getting better all the time, but need not be elaborate to be effective. I think if we're striving for the best standards from our amateur actors, then the same goes for technical crews. But personally i prefer original and innovative design

Having primarily been involved in sound for the last few years I have to agree about the lack of recognition. It would be great if festivals gave awards for 'original' work.

Vinny-Chase

brightspark wrote: »

That would also result in less pressure on groups to create elaborate sets, but that may not be appreciated by audiences, who after all are the reason why plays are produced.

The audience don't give points, the adjudicator does. I think if the adjudicator is aware it's a carbon copy show it should be marked as such. Let the audience give the show the audience award, if one exists.

For a winning carbon copy shows it's like saying "well done for travelling to the West End/ Broadway and remembering everything that was done and replicating that". It's like giving a grammy for a cover version.

Thankfully I've been lucky on the circuit this year with awards and such but at least I know what I'm doing is original. If I fail on stage, it's on me. Likewise if I win or am commended by the audience afterwards it's on me. I take great satisfaction in knowing I created a character, that people remember. I consider myself an artist and I consider creating an original character to be a part of that. But, that's just me...

TrailerBob

Unfortunately adjudicators don't see it that way, or have not seen the original show if one has been replicated. It may be argued that this is a moot point, if a group is good enough then they will be successful. Interestingly the top group on both open and confined tables are the groups who have been accused of plagiarism (true or not I can't judge), which shows that they must also be very good at what they do.
Personally I'm proud to be involved in an original and exciting show that has taken a huge team effort to get to Athlone, and may the best group win.

conoroconnell

I'm getting some dejavu here guys...

Did you not discuss carbon copy productions of Silken Thomas last year??

If a company does a production from the West End or Broadway they will always be criticised for copying it in someway, after all they are the same scripts. And Jerusalem is set in a forest .

I am sick of coming on this blog to see Silken being "ripped" year in year out by people who won't even commit to "real names".

If we are being accused of such things, then Droichead Nua's production of The Good Father can also be accused of the same thing since it appeared at Confined Finals last year.. (Isn't that right Vinny Chase?)

Everyone is entitled to opinion's, that is mine...

Vinny-Chase

Conor,
I'm hardly hiding behind an internet username when the film that I wrote and acted in, is in my signature in every post. So not exactly Sherlock Holmes skills of deduction required.

Scripts are the same of course for each play but each and every move is not. Also note that is not just Silken being criticised. The same criticisms are true for the group doing 39 Steps, or any group who does it.

Droichead Nua production is not the same because as I understand it whoever did it last year just used 3 black boxes for set and actors changed on stage. I didn't see it so I can't comment any further. I also know that my performance is not like any one else's because it is mine. It's the character that I created from my own interpretation of the script, giving the character a different physicality, tempo rhythm, idiosyncrasies etc.

As you say, everyone is entitled to their opinion, that is mine. Other people can defend their criticisms if they choose. I would say the same to a person who took offence from Letterkenny.

I'll freely discuss it further if you would like to PM me.

conoroconnell

Fair enough Alan, I'm making a comparison with regards to people talking about carbon copy productions, wasn't accusing you of anything. Your performance was lovely, I saw it, as was Doey's..

I'm speaking about the comments been thrown about over the last few years with regard to all our productions... At some stage it has to stop. We do what we do, and we do it to the best of our ability..

a plum

I think it's very unfair to say that Silken copied the West End Show. I have seen both and they are not the same. For example the guy playing Wesley in the West End production is a very good actor.

And there are many other differences too.

See you in Athlone Conor! Bring your A Game!

TrailerBob

Could I interest you in this very large spoon I have for sale??

conoroconnell

Ha ha ha... At last someone who takes the circuit for it really is... Good crack and not to be taken too seriously... In all honesty tis hard not to be called a copy cat when all you need is a caravan in a woods for Jerusalem... But it still has its originality.. For example pro production had forty foot caravan ours is twenty.. Trees where thirty foot tall ours are 16!!! Anyway now im just blabbering.. I feel like that guy who wrote and is acting in his own play in Athlone... Know what his name again???

conoroconnell

Ha ha ha... At last someone who takes the circuit for it really is... Good crack and not to be taken too seriously... In all honesty tis hard not to be called a copy cat when all you need is a caravan in a woods for Jerusalem... But it still has its originality.. For example pro production had forty foot caravan ours is twenty.. Trees where thirty foot tall ours are 16!!! Anyway now im just blabbering.. I feel like that guy who wrote and is acting in his own play in Athlone... Know what his name again???

jorg

Seconds away .... round 2 - Athlone.
Have to leave it to you guys to fly the Lilywhite flag this year - 2 totally different yet equally excellent shows!
Best of luck!

a plum

Come on the Lillywhites! 'Copy cat' talk is a load of rubbish - I guarantee you anyone commenting on Silken or Letterkenny hasn't READ THE SCRIPTS.
The 39 Steps is a devised piece of theatre - the same vein as John Breen's "Alone it stands" - they are brilliant shows because they are presecriptive in terms of movement to achieve a total theatre experience. If the directions in the script are not followed closely the show simply doesnt work. And Letterkenny have made it work - because they are talented, dedicated and disciplined.
Jerusalem is a new play receiving it's amateur debut following one smash hit professional production - that's a big deal - and it is the correct artistic decision (and it is an artistic decision) to stick pretty faithfully to the outlined setting in the script at this stage of the play's lifecycle.
On making that decision to follow the author's outline Silken then went about presenting theatres around the country with one of the best sets I've ever seen constructed. And every actor's performance in that show belongs firmly to that actor. That is plain to see to anyone who has been lucky enough to catch this show. And I urge all to go see it - it is a real achievement in all areas of craft.
And that guy's name is Sir to you Mr. O Connell! Prepare yourself for second place!

observe

On a completely unrelated matter. The Newry results. Hello?

TrailerBob

The circuit always throws up results like that. Its what makes it interesting really. Wouldn't be much craic if you could look at a festival and say that X or Y are going to win that. You hear people calling for 3 adjudicators and the like but theatre is by nature subjective.

In the same way Athlone is anybody's. No guarantees of anything. Except a great battle.. swords at the ready!!

(or in our case.... suits!)

Peter grimes

This childish attack on Silken and others is ridiculous!!! Thank God for these groups who push the standards of production higher and higher each year!!! Who cares if their set is similar to that on the West End, each playwright clearly states setting requirements so of course there will be similarities!!!! Silken Thomas have flown into the All Ireland year on year and deserve a bit more respect!!!
Re....Observe, Newry Results??? You might want to look at other results I.e. New Ross!
5 open groups 1st and 2nd placing did not make it to the top 9 whereas the last 3 groups did!!! results this year have been particularly unpredictable but every group is awarenofmthisnbefore they venture out onto circuit!!!

conoroconnell

Aaaaah, I can breath again... Think Peter and Plum pretty much summed it up there..

Its about time someone said what had to be said..

Oh and "Sir" I want my chord jacket back! Looks way better on me mate!

conoroconnell

Jon Joe1 wrote: »

It's a total joke and a cheat!!!! There's no originality, sure anybody can copy somebody's set and presentation and their interpretation of the show...it's just a total cheat!!!!

Calling out John Joe!!

poteen

Here is the marking system as per the ADCI site.

ADCI Marking
Acting 40 marks
Production 35 marks
Presentation 15 marks
Dramatic Achievment 10 Marks

Fair play to Silken and any other Silken for producing Sets like they do at festivals. Its worth the entrance fee alone to see them at times. But as smart people know, presentation alone doesnt win you festivals with a max. of 15 marks so Silken are obviously acting and producing at a high standard also which takes talent and you cannot copy cat talent.

I am not on the circuit this year but have alot of friends involved in groups that are, I have been in the past for numerous years and just want to share some opinions I have from attending festivals this year and talking to others competing.

I do have an issue with the marking system at present and the consistency of marking from adjudicators. Personally I think that for the time, effort and craft that goes into presentation it merits 20 marks whereby a clear breakdown should be given for sound, set, lighting, costume/makeup. At present we have too many adjudicating bodies with various marking structures and it is confusing groups to the point that marking sheets are pointless and you would think sheets are just put together as a rushed after thought after the adjudicator picks the top 3 in their head. The current ruling is that adjudicators are allowed to work at more than one festival in a year as long as its in a different province. I think this is a dated rule also with the modern road network in Ireland and groups willing to travel anywhere in the country - Basically what Im saying here is that i think one 3Act festival is enough each year for an adjudicator and at worst, they shouldnt have to judge the same Group twice in the same year.

Another point worth considering is the duplication of shows on the circuit. Lets say for example you have 5 'Translations' on the circuit next year. Should we maybe look at limiting this to one version of a play in each section (Open/Confined) by employing a system of registering your play with ADCI before the application process as a central database for all to see on the website which by the way is a site I think that could be further enhanced and used.

TrailerBob

poteen wrote: »

Silken are obviously acting and producing at a high standard also which takes talent and you cannot copy cat talent.

Couldn't agree more, as i said in previous posts.

I do also agree that the technical aspect of the production should be of more value than it is.

As for duplication, we had 2 versions of "Doubt - A Parable" last year and this year 2 of "The Seafarer". ( I think one year there were 4 versions of "Lughnasa") It must be difficult not to judge them against each other, separate to the competition. I know that comments made during last year's award ceremony, doing just that, did not go down well.

Also ADCI site needs a facelift big time, should have a lot more info too.

conoroconnell

Fair points guys, and thank you for the support that sadly JohnJoe and Vinny Chase don't agree with...

I think the beauty of the circuit is that for its tiny flaws at times we do love competing on it each year, giving out about adjudicators decisions and thoughts and going around the country competing ourselves and watching others to see who will the coveted prize at both the open and confined finals go to.. I love it and wouldn't change it for the world...

I do agree with updating ADCI website, but that will happen in time.

A lot has been done over the past number of years with promotion of RTE finals under the sponsorship of RTE and the festivals themselves are really upping their games with regards to promotion of shows and award ceremonies (not all festivals) but is starting to filter through.. After all we are in a recession so give it time..

As for the marking system, it is what it is.. The problem with adjudicators is that a minority seem to judge groups on the "play" they perform and not the "performance" of the play. Human Nature I know, but an adjudicator once stood up on the stage and said, and I quote, " I don't like this play. I don't like this Author. But I am not here to adjudicate either the play or the author but the group and their performance of the play.. Touche!!!

observe

Duplication of plays is unavoidable. Groups pick plays for different reasons and each year certain plays are in vogue. Athlone had three By the Bog of Cats, one year. I'm not sure that it would be practical to have a central database. What criteria would you use for choosing which group gets to go ahead with a production that more than one group wish to do? First in, first served? or do you look at a groups track record? In this case there might be groups who never get to do what they want.

Every year there are complaints about different aspects of the festival circuit - about festivals, adjudicators and even groups!! But, it's all heresay, always anecdotal. You want real change, then you start to put things in writing to the relevant authorities.

Anyway, congrats to all the groups who have made it to Shercock and Athlone. Enjoy the ride!

TrailerBob

conoroconnell wrote: »

I think the beauty of the circuit is that for its tiny flaws at times we do love competing on it each year,

That's what keeps me going when I'm driving the truck through random places in the 4 provinces at 2 a.m to get home for work!! Hope ye have booked into Athlone - Radisson sold out!

jorg

TrailerBob wrote: »

That's what keeps me going when I'm driving the truck through random places in the 4 provinces at 2 a.m to get home for work!! Hope ye have booked into Athlone - Radisson sold out!

No way!! for every night??

TrailerBob

Sorry Mr.B , should have specified, Final night booked out... I would imagine plenty available for other nights!

Looking forward to the draw on Monday

Jon Joe1

On another note any predictions so far.....I'm going to say
First:Cornmill(The Seafarer)
Second:Silken Thomas(Jerusalem)
Third:Ballyduff(The Crucible)

This prediction comes after seeing all except Corofin and Estuary so they could be good but didn't here much about them....any other predictions????

cavalcaders

Hi guys, great to see another fantastic line up for Athlone!!!!.... Seems that we have all the big hitters again, Cornmill, silken, kilmeen and ballyduff. These groups seem to be able to reach Athlone year on year, a great achievement considering how hard it is to get there.

Prosperous are also back and if they are as consistent ove the next few years they can join the above mentioned group!!!!.....

Estuary are back this year which is great, this group seems to know how to win all Ireland's

Other groups like Bunclody and Thurlas make a welcome return to Athlone and it's great to corofin with what I think may be there first appearance to the finals!!!

Interestingly enough, it's funny how mis leading the league table can be. Being the nerd that i am i noticed that Although Cornmill sit on top they have only beaten two groups that are in Athlone. Groups like Bunclody and ballyduff although they are not on top have beaten more groups.

If I were a bookies I would have it as

Silken evens
Kilmeen 6/4
Ballyduff 3/1
Thurlas 3/1
Bunclody 7/2
Cornmill 4/1
Estuary 9/2
Prosperous 5/1
Corofin 15/2

cavalcaders

wow, sorry obviously touched a nerve, apologies for that i didn't see where they beat corofin, sorry again.

but thats beside the point, my argument is still the same, to be honest its not even an argument just an observation and its nothing against cornmil you can only beat what you are up against but i noticed for example ballyduff who have only two wins have beaten 5 groups that are in athlone, bunclody have beaten 4, thurlas have beaten 5 as well i think, yet all of those groups are behind cornmill.

its just interesting, its why i wouldn't have cornmill as the favourites to win athlone despite what the league table would indicate.

this is not a jibe at anyone, i think corn mill are a fantastic group......just an observation