The Recession......your solutions?

AudreyHepburn

Everytime the government introduces an new tax or cut or rise in price or possibility of a bailout as a method of combatting the recession there is an outpouring of moaning and protesting against. But I have yet to see offer anyone a viable solution. And no taxing the super rich only or cutting only TDs salaries do not count.

So I ask my fellow Boardsies/AHers, what would you do if you were Taoiseach/TD? If the Government is not allowed to bring more cuts/taxes/price raises/bailouts then what can they do?

Lets have some genuine answers please, not the usual 'tax the rich, cut TDs salaries' cop outs.

Guill

Big **** you to the EU and Merkel. Then i would close all borders, we have enough in Ireland to survive.

amacachi

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

So I ask my fellow Boardsies/AHers, what would you do if you were Taoiseach/TD? If the Government is not allowed to bring more cuts/taxes/price raises/bailouts then what can they do?

Well then the deficit would stay the same. Unless they inflated the **** out of everything, but that would act like a cut in SW/Public Spending.

amacachi

Guill wrote: »

Big **** you to the EU and Merkel. Then i would close all borders, we have enough in Ireland to survive.

Survive? You're an awful ambitious person.

Doc Ruby

Cut spending in places it won't hurt the economy too much, and reduce tax rates. But less than you cut. Government ends up with a net increase in revenue and the economy isn't beggared. Heres what baffles me:

In good times, you can't cut spending because its politically impossible.
In bad times you can't cut spending because its austerity.

So government spending continually spirals upwards, with the endgame being Greece. Time to wake up and rein in the public balance.

Oranage2

Clear mortgage debt - Joe Soap will have more money to stimulate the economy.

seantorious

How about we all just live within out means. [Awaits Nobel Prize]

Guill

amacachi wrote: »

Survive? You're an awful ambitious person.

We eat the weakest then when numbers are low enough we will be okay. Simples.

dxhound2005

There is no solution. But in time things will get better. I'm saying this because we have always had a cycle of good and bad times for some people.

Immaculate Pasta

My solution - The country just does one massive whip round. If you want to contribute, contribute if you don't, nee bother and then we should have enough to clear the debt.

That's my take anyway :cool:

DEFTLEFTHAND

Overhaul the social welfare system with severe means testing and introduce food stamps for the destitute.

I propose we all hide under a bunch of coats until it all blows over.

Suryavarman

Slash spending, cut taxes, deregulate and privatise almost everything the Government does.

Suryavarman

Oranage2 wrote: »

Clear mortgage debt - Joe Soap will have more money to stimulate the economy.

What about peoples savings?

Guill

seantorious wrote: »

How about we all just live within out means. [Awaits Nobel Prize]

For spelling?

Ian64

Guill wrote: »

Big **** you to the EU and Merkel. Then i would close all borders, we have enough in Ireland to survive.

Well said!!!
Our oil reserves would last decades, our coal and stell production would feed our heavy industry, we dont want to sell our agricultural produce abroad, and who needs Intel,MSand D etc, our motor production industry would see us ok for cars and trucks, we could invent our own medicines, and with NO tourists we could turn our hotels in communal homes for the destitute.
We never liked oranges or melons, who needs coffee or tea (sure we could grow them ourselves), and as for cigarettes and chocalate they are a nusance.
Eh on the other hand closing our borders and choosing national economic suicide might not be as good a solution as you thought!

My name is URL

tayto lover

Lets suck up to the Chinese and the Japs they have loads of dosh. Then we can tell Europe where to go.

SafeSurfer

Completely scrap the overseas aid budget. Replace it with a voluntary contribution of salary collected through PAYE and self assessment.

Scrap the army. There is no need for them and they cant protect us anyway.

Make the universal social charge applicable to corporate profits. It is supposed to be universal after all.

Scrap all payments county councillors. It was until recently a voluntary role and should be again.

Cut down unnecessary duplication. Do we really need to pay separate county managers, chief engineers, head planners etc with large salaries for each and every county?

My own personal bugbear stop wasting money on public service ads. If you don't cook your chicken properly or wash your hands after taking a crap you deserve to get sick.

amacachi

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Cut spending in places it won't hurt the economy too much, and reduce tax rates. But less than you cut. Government ends up with a net increase in revenue and the economy isn't beggared. Heres what baffles me:

In good times, you can't cut spending because its politically impossible.
In bad times you can't cut spending because its austerity.

So government spending continually spirals upwards, with the endgame being Greece. Time to wake up and rein in the public balance.

There's a 35%ish deficit, that's a lot of tax rises and cuts.

I'd just prefer if we didn't give the government power to get us all into debt.

Ian64

seantorious wrote: »

How about we all just live within out means. [Awaits Nobel Prize]

A concept like that will never catch on in a country suffering from Entitleditis!

mattjack

Dónal wrote: »

I propose we all hide under a bunch of coats until it all blows over.

I've no coats left...lost them all in the "great coat war"...I've a nice poncho and a glove left.

Seanergy

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I have yet to see offer anyone a viable solution.

So I ask my fellow Boardsies/AHers, what would you do if you were Taoiseach/TD?

There will be an outpouring of moaning and protesting against this but to answer your Question I would legalize Weed and stop wasting tax payers money on adding waste chemicals to the drinking water.

Suryavarman

tayto lover wrote: »

Lets suck up to the Chinese and the Japs they have loads of dosh. Then we can tell Europe where to go.

Rubbish. China's housing bubble is on the verge of popping and it's going to make Ireland's look like a picnic. Japan hasn't grown in about 20 years and has a debt to GDP ration of about 200%. Neither of those countries is in a position to be supporting us.

starbelgrade

One of the biggest obstacles to overcome before any type of normality returns is to inject a huge dose of confidence back into the economy.

The media certainly didn't cause the recession - as some people would have you believe - but they certainly aren't helping us to get out of it. The likes of Newstalk for example are absolute gloom & doom merchants - an hour of listening to Ivan Yates in the morning would have you think that the sky was going to fall in.

As a result, people are afraid to spend & are squirreling away money like there's no tomorrow. Obviously there are a lot of people who aren't as they don't have it, but despite that, we still have the highest rate of personal savings per capita in the whole of the eurozone.

The result of that is that local businesses are finding it harder to survive, cutbacks are being made, people are losing jobs, the dole queues are getting longer and the whole thing just keeps rolling on like that.

In my own business, I've cut my fees quite a bit, yet there are still people who say that they're too expensive. Personally I don't give a fuck - I'm not that pushed for the work, but I know some people in the same business as me who are working at or below cost just to keep the doors open & the staff on their books. That is simply unsustainable & the absurd thing is that I work in an area of business that in essence a luxury service - the type of people who would employ my services actually have money but they're either afraid to spend it or are just penny pinching in the extreme.

So, to cut a long story short... a bit of positivity would go a long way indeed. The recession is ****e, but in fairness, no-one has died, no-one is starving, it's not the end of the world... it's just that people have a bit less money than they did a few years ago.

Bullseye1

mattjack wrote: »

I've no coats left...lost them all in the "great coat war"...I've a nice poncho and a glove left.

I'm sure ive seen that in a movie.....although not on RTE.

AudreyHepburn

starbelgrade wrote: »

One of the biggest obstacles to overcome before any type of normality returns is to inject a huge dose of confidence back into the economy.

The media certainly didn't cause the recession - as some people would have you believe - but they certainly aren't helping us to get out of it. The likes of Newstalk for example are absolute gloom & doom merchants - an hour of listening to Ivan Yates in the morning would have you think that the sky was going to fall in.

As a result, people are afraid to spend & are squirreling away money like there's no tomorrow. Obviously there are a lot of people who aren't as they don't have it, but despite that, we still have the highest rate of personal savings per capita in the whole of the eurozone.

The result of that is that local businesses are finding it harder to survive, cutbacks are being made, people are losing jobs, the dole queues are getting longer and the whole thing just keeps rolling on like that.

In my own business, I've cut my fees quite a bit, yet there are still people who say that they're too expensive. Personally I don't give a fuck - I'm not that pushed for the work, but I know some people in the same business as me who are working at or below cost just to keep the doors open & the staff on their books. That is simply unsustainable & the absurd thing is that I work in an area of business that in essence a luxury service - the type of people who would employ my services actually have money but they're either afraid to spend it or are just penny pinching in the extreme.

So, to cut a long story short... a bit of positivity would go a long way indeed. The recession is ****e, but in fairness, no-one has died, no-one is starving, it's not the end of the world... it's just that people have a bit less money than they did a few years ago.

I couldn't agree more. Like you, I do know there are those who are genuinely on the breadline but for most of us I firmly believe it is simply a matter of tightening the belt a notch.

We are not in Third World country yet and I wish people would stop acting like we are.

Bullseye1

I can foresee a huge right off of soverign debt across the board. Too many countries are running unsustainable deficits.

mattjack

starbelgrade wrote: »

One of the biggest obstacles to overcome before any type of normality returns is to inject a huge dose of confidence back into the economy.

The media certainly didn't cause the recession - as some people would have you believe - but they certainly aren't helping us to get out of it. The likes of Newstalk for example are absolute gloom & doom merchants - an hour of listening to Ivan Yates in the morning would have you think that the sky was going to fall in.

As a result, people are afraid to spend & are squirreling away money like there's no tomorrow. Obviously there are a lot of people who aren't as they don't have it, but despite that, we still have the highest rate of personal savings per capita in the whole of the eurozone.

The result of that is that local businesses are finding it harder to survive, cutbacks are being made, people are losing jobs, the dole queues are getting longer and the whole thing just keeps rolling on like that.

In my own business, I've cut my fees quite a bit, yet there are still people who say that they're too expensive. Personally I don't give a fuck - I'm not that pushed for the work, but I know some people in the same business as me who are working at or below cost just to keep the doors open & the staff on their books. That is simply unsustainable & the absurd thing is that I work in an area of business that in essence a luxury service - the type of people who would employ my services actually have money but they're either afraid to spend it or are just penny pinching in the extreme.

So, to cut a long story short... a bit of positivity would go a long way indeed. The recession is ****e, but in fairness, no-one has died, no-one is starving, it's not the end of the world... it's just that people have a bit less money than they did a few years ago.

You have a business ? fcuk off .....I always looked up to you...thought you were "the man"....

SafeSurfer

Not to be negative but lots of cosy middle class opinions on here.

Hank_Jones

A pony for each person of the republic.

And it will be the law that everyone must brush their teeth.

Our think our country has leaders stupid enough to adopt these things and charge people enough taxes to implement them.

starbelgrade

mattjack wrote: »

You have a business ? fcuk off .....I always looked up to you...thought you were "the man"....

Of course I do... if I was "working for the man", then how could I be "the man"?

later12

My solution is closer co-operation between the peripherals of Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Italy and Spain.

We're so used to talking to the core club as individuals, that we sometimes forget there are at least 4 other members in our peripheral union of crisis states. If they can talk to us as a group, then we should talk back as a group.

This is not divisive if the message we bring them is of enhancing European unity: pressurise Germany into greater fiscal union, the introduction of Eurobonds, reform of the ECB and perhaps some monetization of official debt.

Otherwise, I would keep Ireland's head down and progress swift in implementing austerity - and indeed, making such austerity a permanent feature of Irish government policy.

Bullseye1

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Not to be negative but lots of cosy middle class opinions on here.

Well they are the ones baring the blunt.

ejmaztec

Cryogenics will solve the problem, 20 years should be enough.

AudreyHepburn

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Not to be negative but lots of cosy middle class opinions on here.

And here, in my opinion, is the biggest problem of all.....the idea that if you are in anyway positive at the moment it is because you are middle or upper class and have no clue what the poor misfortunate working classes are going through.

I'm certainly not middle class ( not working class either mind). I just don't honestly see the point in being bitter and constantly whining about we all knew would be tough times.

My own main solution would to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, realise that compare a lot of contries in the world we are privilaged and start being proactive and looking to the future.

tayto lover

Suryavarman wrote: »

Rubbish. China's housing bubble is on the verge of popping and it's going to make Ireland's look like a picnic. Japan hasn't grown in about 20 years and has a debt to GDP ration of about 200%. Neither of those countries is in a position to be supporting us.

You are obviously a very serious person.

mattjack

starbelgrade wrote: »

Of course I do... if I was "working for the man", then how could I be "the man"?

I am going to take an unusual position for Boards AH contributor....I am going to unreservedly admit I haven't a notion what I'm talking about.

SafeSurfer

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Well they are the ones baring the blunt.

I thought it was mainly the working class who smoked joints.

starbelgrade

mattjack wrote: »

I am going to take an unusual position for Boards AH contributor....I am going to unreservedly admit I haven't a notion what I'm talking about.

Me neither - Wikipedia's been blocked all day.

SafeSurfer

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

And here, in my opinion, is the biggest problem of all.....the idea that if you are in anyway positive at the moment it is because you are middle or upper class and have no clue what the poor misfortunate working classes are going through.

I'm certainly not middle class ( not working class either mind). I just don't honestly see the point in being bitter and constantly whining about we all knew would be tough times.

My own main solution would to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, realise that compare a lot of contries in the world we are privilaged and start being proactive and looking to the future.

The old favourite "sure it could be worse" ? So we just keep saying that until it cant be any worse.

Another post has mentioned that the recession isn't that bad, "nobody died". I beg to disagree. If you take a look at suicide statistics over the past number of years, talk to any health professional you might not be so blase just because the impact of recession on some is choosing between a sun or snow holiday instead of both. The "I'm alright Jack" brigade seem to think that if they are still doing ok everyone else should just shut the **** up.

Suryavarman

tayto lover wrote: »

You are obviously a very serious person.

Yes I am.

noodler

Oranage2 wrote: »

Clear mortgage debt - Joe Soap will have more money to stimulate the economy.

I don't really want to inject even more money into the banks to cover those losses, do you?

later10 wrote: »

My solution is closer co-operation between the peripherals of Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Italy and Spain.

We're so used to talking to the core club as individuals, that we sometimes forget there are at least 4 other members in our peripheral union of crisis states. If they can talk to us as a group, then we should talk back as a group.

This is not divisive if the message we bring them is of enhancing European unity: pressurise Germany into greater fiscal union, the introduction of Eurobonds, reform of the ECB and perhaps some monetization of official debt.

Otherwise, I would keep Ireland's head down and progress swift in implementing austerity - and indeed, making such austerity a permanent feature of Irish government policy.

GTFO with your reasonable sugestions!

AudreyHepburn

SafeSurfer wrote: »

The old favourite "sure it could be worse" ? So we just keep saying that until it cant be any worse.

Another post has mentioned that the recession isn't that bad, "nobody died". I beg to disagree. If you take a look at suicide statistics over the past number of years, talk to any health professional you might not be so blase just because the impact of recession on some is choosing between a sun or snow holiday instead of both. The "I'm alright Jack" brigade seem to think that if they are still doing ok everyone else should just shut the **** up.

So we should wallow in self pity and misery 24/7 instead?

A little positive thinking never killed anyone, negative thinking on the other hand......

Toby Take a Bow

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'm certainly not middle class ( not working class either mind).

So, you're ... upper class? Is that why we're not allowed to suggest increasing tax for the wealthy? I'm a little confused as to why that isn't 'allowed' to be an option. Whatever your opinion on its worth or not, it could theoretically lead to some form of solution. I agree with you on TD wages and the like, as whatever amount we cut their wages wouldn't make a dent in our current problem.

Implementing austerity, as far as I can see, will have a negative effect on our economy. Austerity will only compound people not spending.

My two solutions (and ignoring your original qualifications) would be to increase tax for the higher-earners and incorporate some form of pan-European policy whereby we consolidate bonds resulting in some form (I would argue a high percentage) of burning the bondholders. I'm not sure how the agency ratings would react to this, but a general shake-up of how our economies relate to the agency ratings industry would probably be required.

Hank_Jones

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

And here, in my opinion, is the biggest problem of all.....the idea that if you are in anyway positive at the moment it is because you are middle or upper class and have no clue what the poor misfortunate working classes are going through.

I'm certainly not middle class ( not working class either mind). I just don't honestly see the point in being bitter and constantly whining about we all knew would be tough times.

My own main solution would to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, realise that compare a lot of contries in the world we are privilaged and start being proactive and looking to the future.

Not working class, not middle class, that just leaves the upper class....

AudreyHepburn

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

So, you're ... upper class? Is that why we're not allowed to suggest increasing tax for the wealthy? I'm a little confused as to why that isn't 'allowed' to be an option. Whatever your opinion on its worth or not, it could theoretically lead to some form of solution. I agree with you on TD wages and the like, as whatever amount we cut their wages wouldn't make a dent in our current problem.

Implementing austerity, as far as I can see, will have a negative effect on our economy. Austerity will only compound people not spending.

My two solutions (and ignoring your original qualifications) would be to increase tax for the higher-earners and incorporate some form of pan-European policy whereby we consolidate bonds resulting in some form (I would argue a high percentage) of burning the bondholders. I'm not sure how the agency ratings would react to this, but a general shake-up of how our economies relate to the agency ratings industry would probably be required.

I'm not living in a council estate, nor do I live in D4 that's all I meant.

I never said we couldn't tax the rich, just that we need to stop deluding ourselves that that alone will fix things.

AudreyHepburn

Hank_Jones wrote: »

Not working class, not middle class, that just leaves the upper class....

Certainly not.

I'm not council estate nor D4, that's all I meant.

ygolometsipe

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Everytime the government introduces an new tax or cut or rise in price or possibility of a bailout as a method of combatting the recession there is an outpouring of moaning and protesting against. But I have yet to see offer anyone a viable solution. And no taxing the super rich only or cutting only TDs salaries do not count.

So I ask my fellow Boardsies/AHers, what would you do if you were Taoiseach/TD? If the Government is not allowed to bring more cuts/taxes/price raises/bailouts then what can they do?

Lets have some genuine answers please, not the usual 'tax the rich, cut TDs salaries' cop outs.

"But I have yet to see offer anyone a viable solution"

There is no solution, its a gamble thats economies!

No man|woman / team of people can determine how much expendable
cash the average individual has on hand and or when they would like to spend it!

The recession will end when mr/mrs XX feels like they can buy something and not worry.

To be able to calculate when this would occur would require a super computer beyond anything that exists.

People who say they have an a - b -c plan are bull-****ting.

---
Economics is like the weather, for 40 years you have sun on march 1st, people get to depend on things like this,

now we have sun on december 25th, its a new pattern of change!

The answer is this, when the new pattern becomes very familiar, whatever that is, then people will act in a way that will define that pattern, that will be the beginning of the next bubble and that will start the end of this recession.

To be able to figure out what that pattern is right now and to be able to move the whole world to follow it, is not possible.

Our leaders will fumble about a bit but really they dont matter.

The answer is time, cuts, patients, perseverance and hope!

It will all work out, we have been here before!

Seanergy

ygolometsipe wrote: »

"we have been here before!

I certainly havn't, are you from the future?

Eric Cartman

cut all benefits down to just food stamps, privatize everything, sell everything off, reduce the size of government to a bare minimum, dont give the banks any money, leave the euro and base a currency on gold. Close Irelands borders, kick out any non national without a job, abolish VRT, lower VAT to 20%, abolish the USC, remove the carbon tax on fuel, increase DIRT to 75%, lower the price of cigarettes and drink to 2005 levels. Let the offo's open 24/7. Remove the housing tax. Abolish the minimum wage. Abolish the RSA, the PSA and any other regulatory body preventing access into a profession. Tax religions, sell off all the assets in NAMA, kill the TV licence and sell RTE's production end. Convert any tax/duty on diesel to VAT to help businesses.