The next big thing ???

killalanerr

Now that carbon is pretty much the norm with most cycling enthusiast where do you think the next big advance will come from,
with fly by wire gear change all ready available what do you think the next be advance will be ?

SomeFool

whoever comes up with a cheap/light/accurate power meter would make a killing.

Chips Lovell

Greater integration/customisation of electronic groupsets into frames and other components.

Seems to be a lot of buzz around bringing hydraulics and disc brakes into the road scene at the moment too.

patrick151

Well Magura and Cervelo just unveiled the first hydraulic brake for a road bike and i know a few companies are looking into disc brakes for the road after their success in cyclocross this year

ROK ON

If it were not for technologocal innovation, we would still be on bikes weighing as heavy as a gate with no real gearing.

But . . the luddite in me gets a little worried when the 'latest' thing is unveiled.

I do not really want to see disc brakes on a bike. They are ugly, and the beauty of road bikes is that so many of them are beautiful works of design.

I am of the view that the only electronic componentry on a bike should be a computer. I do not see what is the basic break set up requires changing. It is technological innovation for the sake of it - it will add very little except to the price point. That is the fashion in the FMCG world at present, useless fadish innovation in order to preserve pricing - but does the consumer actually gain anything?

That said, if and when Power meters come down to the price point of say a Garmin, then I will probably get one.

Donelson

a Segway-esk-unicycle-bicycle, could easily be the norm in 10-20yrs, fly by fire opens up a lot of new geometries etc. I could active aero appearing very shortly.

sled driver

Maybe not technical advancement, but this would certainly be progress



Swiftly followed by



then

killalanerr

any photos of what road bike hydraulics disc brakes might look like

ednwireland

isotruss !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





http://www.delta7bikes.com/isotruss-bike-technology.htm

Mycroft H

Recumbents.

Morgan

killalanerr wrote: »

any photos of what road bike hydraulics disc brakes might look like

Here's one from 2006:

http://www.canyon.com/_uk/technology/project68.html

Tenzor07

29er MTB's (not!)

happytramp

Hmmmm after carbon, surely the next logical step (following recent trends) is Glass bikes. They'd be twice as light, twice as responsive, twice as sexy, ten times more expensive and shatter if you shout at them loud enough.

seamus

Hydraulic shifters, always shift reliably and easily, service once every two years, no more screwing about with tensioner adjusters and allen keys to get it "just right".

Also an internal gearbox like Honda produced a number of years back on a prototype bike. Bitch to service, but allows more direct power to the wheels and far less susceptibility to rain, mud, rocks and crashes.

As usual, downhill MTBing will lead the way because they don't care much about weight. Can't see an internal gearbox being the norm on road bikes though.

Di2 and electronic shifting is all nice and good, but I don't think it's practical for non-racing use. Aside from the need to remember to charge the battery (and would they last for a full 10-hour ride?), electronics eventually succumb to the elements and then you have to buy a new one. Everyday riding, even on a training bike is more concerned with durability than performance.

Lumen

seamus wrote: »

Aside from the need to remember to charge the battery (and would they last for a full 10-hour ride?), electronics eventually succumb to the elements and then you have to buy a new one.

The battery life is estimated at 2000km. Can you ride 2000km in 10 hours?

There have been issues of water ingress (which I assume have or will get resolved sooner or later), but I don't think the durability is any different from a mechanical group.

seamus

Still, one of those things it'd be easy to forget to do and then you're left in Glenmalure stuck in top gear and only climbs either side. Though I suppose you wouldn't forget again after that

They need to figure out that power reclaiming technology used on car wheels. Then you'd have electronic components that never need to be charged.

dave2pvd

killalanerr wrote: »

Now that carbon is pretty much the norm with most cycling enthusiast where do you think the next big advance will come from,
with fly by wire gear change all ready available what do you think the next be advance will be ?

Fly by wire is not available on bikes yet. But I have no doubt that Shimano/Campag/SRAM are working on a Bluetooth version of an electric groupset.

However,

ROK ON wrote: »

.......technological innovation for the sake of it - add very little except to the price point. That is the fashion in the FMCG world at present, useless fadish innovation in order to preserve pricing - but does the consumer actually gain anything?

ROK ON, I agree with you 100%.

killalanerr

seamus wrote: »

They need to figure out that power reclaiming technology used on car wheels. Then you'd have electronic components that you would never need to peddle.[/QUOTE
fixed that for you :rolleyes:

jiffybag

seamus wrote: »

Hydraulic shifters, always shift reliably and easily, service once every two years, no more screwing about with tensioner adjusters and allen keys to get it "just right".

Also an internal gearbox like Honda produced a number of years back on a prototype bike. Bitch to service, but allows more direct power to the wheels and far less susceptibility to rain, mud, rocks and crashes.

As usual, downhill MTBing will lead the way because they don't care much about weight. Can't see an internal gearbox being the norm on road bikes though.

Di2 and electronic shifting is all nice and good, but I don't think it's practical for non-racing use. Aside from the need to remember to charge the battery (and would they last for a full 10-hour ride?), electronics eventually succumb to the elements and then you have to buy a new one. Everyday riding, even on a training bike is more concerned with durability than performance.

Di2 is fool proof , I clocked 3800kms on a single charge last season. I am currently running it on a CX bike which I have been hammering through the forests for a bit of winter training . Plenty of mud , water and crap get thrown at it several times a week . It never miss a beat. I think that eletronic shifting is here to stay in a big way .

AstraMonti

seamus wrote: »

Still, one of those things it'd be easy to forget to do and then you're left in Glenmalure stuck in top gear and only climbs either side. Though I suppose you wouldn't forget again after that

They need to figure out that power reclaiming technology used on car wheels. Then you'd have electronic components that never need to be charged.

It has lots of leds on it to tell you that it needs power. The new Campag EPS also has something called back-home (or something like that) that you can use the last juice of your battery to select one gear to drive you home.

Power reclaiming sounds good, but the friction caused by the regeneration would probably be too much; all this assuming you mean a pedal rotated power reclaim.

boege

Met someone in the Alps last year who had a custom built road bike with a front disc brake fitted, looked pretty good.

Made me wonder if it would solve the breaking surface issue with Carbon rim wheels. Is so disc brakes and bling wheels could be the future.

07Lapierre

Continuously Variable ( electronic no doubt ) Transmission! No more of all this MANUAL gear shifting. Thats the future! Remember, you heard it from me first!

jumpgun

Here is something on disks from Stevens Bikes.
It on a cyclo-cross bike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuxoOLOBBDA

morana

07Lapierre wrote: »

Continuously Variable ( electronic no doubt ) Transmission! No more of all this MANUAL gear shifting. Thats the future! Remember, you heard it from me first!

integrated with your power meter and intelligent enough to change for you when your body needs to!

Joxer_S

seamus wrote: »

They need to figure out that power reclaiming technology used on car wheels. Then you'd have electronic components that you would never need to peddle.

Your prayers have been answered! I seen this presented at a lecture a few years back

http://senseable.mit.edu/copenhagenwheel/

THE COPENHAGEN WHEEL

The Copenhagen Wheel turns the bike you already own, quickly and easily into
an electric bike with regeneration and real-time environmental sensing capabilities.
The wheel harvests the energy you input while braking and cycling and stores it for
when you need a bit of a boost. At the same time, sensors in the wheel are collecting
information about air and noise pollution, congestion and road conditions.

The Copenhagen Wheel differs from other electric bikes in that all components are
elegantly packaged into one hub. There is no external wiring or bulky battery packs,
making it retrofittable into any bike. Inside the hub, we have arranged a motor,
3-speed internal hub gear, batteries, a torque sensor, GPRS and a sensor kit that
monitors CO, NOx, noise (db), relative humidity and temperature. In the future,
you will be able to spec out your wheel according to your riding habits and needs.

Live in San Francisco? Add more battery power.
Interested in real-time applications? Increase the number of sensors.

Lastly, the wheel is controlled through your Smart Phone and becomes a natural
extension of your everyday life. Simply place your phone on the handlebars, and
its Bluetooth module syncs with the Bluetooth module in the hub of the Copenhagen Wheel.
You can then use your phone and our Copenhagen Wheel Application to unlock and lock
your bike, change gears, select how much the motor assists you and for viewing
relevant real-time information.

killalanerr

Continuously Variable ( electronic no doubt ) Transmission! No more of all this MANUAL gear shifting. Thats the future! Remember, you heard it from me first!
integrated with your power meter and intelligent enough to change for you when your body needs to
add in the power reclaiming technology and now we have some thing to work on

Leroy42

Disc brakes is the next useful innovation on road bikes. Electronic shifting will become the norm but performance wise doesn't add a whole lot (esp. for pro teams who can service their bikes everyday).

But disc brakes have major benefits. Braking distance is shorter, so faster descents etc, no issues with blow outs on descents, and since bike makers are well capable of getting under the UCI weight limit already (to the point that balast has to be added) is make sense to use that spare weight to add such a benefit.

The only thing holding it back is the snottyness of the road scene. We don't want to be seen to be agreeing, after all this time, with what the MTB world has had for years.

Whether they are ugly or not has nothing to do with it. Are TT helmets beautiful (well helmets in general really) but they aid performance and so are accepted - NB just talking aesthetically not trying to start the whole helmet thing again!

Cookie_Monster

carbon nanotube construction or even spun hyper diamond

"a man can dream though, a man can dream"

kerryscoob

patrick151 wrote: »

Well Magura and Cervelo just unveiled the first hydraulic brake for a road bike and i know a few companies are looking into disc brakes for the road after their success in cyclocross this year

Volagi bikes supposedly the bikes of the future.

Lumen

12 speed sequential electronic shifting with a single chainring and 13-37 cassette.

Extra weight of cassette would be offset by subtraction of front mech.

kumate_champ07

I'd like to see more magnesium clincher rims like American Classic use, no aftermarket stuff available at the moment, maybe from Alibaba in China.

Carbon Fibre manufacturing and development is still improving, just like steel has done over the last 100years. CF is still a newish material

In 10 years affordable personal CNC machines should be available, that would be nice for customizing your own stems,cranks,hubs etc

dave2pvd

Leroy42 wrote: »

Disc brakes is the next useful innovation on road bikes.

Braking distance is shorter

Nope. Should be the same.

dquirke1

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

carbon nanotube construction or even spun hyper diamond

"a man can dream though, a man can dream"

Carbon nanotubes are already used in some of Eastons bars and stems and i think in giro shoes. Its only a matter of time before they're more widely adopted.

We might have to wait a bit longer for the spun hyper diamonds though...

iregk

Well personally I think the UCI need to take another look at the weight restrictions as that holds back a lot of the advances these days. Bikes now come in way under the limit only to be fitted with led weights. Lower the limit and lets see all the latest in feather weight carbon first.

As for new stuff well I'm not a fan of disc breaks, never have been. My biggest innovation will be to see a bike version of the airless tire currently available for cars. This would be the king for all of us I'm sure. Imagine no more need for spare tubes or tire levers or getting lashed on on the sally gap struggling to get the tire back on the rim as your hands are starting to shake with the cold...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tweel-airless-tire.htm

AstraMonti

I cant see disk brakes coming soon (in the 2-3 years at least) for road bikes. All the wheel manufacturers will have to redesign all their wheels from scratch as any aero benefit from their shape will be diminished by the use of an ugly disk.

doozerie

Leroy42 wrote:

Disc brakes is the next useful innovation on road bikes. Electronic shifting will become the norm but performance wise doesn't add a whole lot (esp. for pro teams who can service their bikes everyday).

But disc brakes have major benefits. Braking distance is shorter, so faster descents etc, no issues with blow outs on descents, and since bike makers are well capable of getting under the UCI weight limit already (to the point that balast has to be added) is make sense to use that spare weight to add such a benefit.

The only thing holding it back is the snottyness of the road scene. We don't want to be seen to be agreeing, after all this time, with what the MTB world has had for years.

The technological difficulties have played a huge part in the lack of disc brakes on road bikes, I would imagine. If you have a look at the Canyon link that Morgan posted earlier in the thread that page is very interesting as it discusses some of the issues that they've had to overcome with their design (e.g. due to road forks being so different to MTB forks having a rotor on one side can screw up steering, heat buildup is a greater issue, etc.). It seems to be a very challenging area and it's not clear to me from that page whether Canyon got to the stage of offering it for sale despite clearly having made great progress with the design and implementation, whatever about whether there was a demand for it.

Lumen

AstraMonti wrote: »

I cant see disk brakes coming soon (in the 2-3 years at least) for road bikes. All the wheel manufacturers will have to redesign all their wheels from scratch as any aero benefit from their shape will be diminished by the use of an ugly disk.

Aero might also be diminished by using four-cross 32 spoked wheels.

http://www.canyon.com/_en/technology/project68.html

edit: ...ah, Morgan posted that one page 1

Icyseanfitz

jebus your right that is four cross :eek: they doing some downhill with those wheels haha

nomdeboardie

iregk wrote: »

... My biggest innovation will be to see a bike version of the airless tire currently available for cars. This would be the king for all of us I'm sure. Imagine no more need for spare tubes or tire levers or getting lashed on on the sally gap struggling to get the tire back on the rim as your hands are starting to shake with the cold...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tweel-airless-tire.htm

+1
Roll out the tweel !!

monkeypants

The disc on that Canyon seems very small in diameter compared to most disc brakes I've seen on MTBs.

Lumen

monkeypants wrote: »

The disc on that Canyon seems very small in diameter compared to most disc brakes I've seen on MTBs.

There are dual 120mm rotors on the front.

DePurpereWolf

Would it be possible to integrate the disc brake in the hub? Nice and aero

Lumen

DePurpereWolf wrote: »

Would it be possible to integrate the disc brake in the hub? Nice and aero

Taking the calipers and discs out of the air flow would be very bad for heat dissipation, and you'd end up with an enormous draggy hub.

If the problem is carbon rim braking (which according to the manufacturers is a solved problem!) then the obvious solution is improve the materials used for the brake track, not throw out the whole concept of rim brakes.

doozerie

monkeypants wrote:

The disc on that Canyon seems very small in diameter compared to most disc brakes I've seen on MTBs.

They are (both of them on the front wheel). They are 120mm to 125mm in size according to the text, and need to be so to overcome the different challenges posed by a road fork versus an MTB. It's discussed in the text, makes for an interesting read.

monkeypants

Lumen wrote: »

There are dual 120mm rotors on the front.

I've got a 180 on the front of my MTB. Do I need all of that? Probably not. I've never been on a bike where I needed to use more than one finger to brake.

Lumen

monkeypants wrote: »

I've got a 180 on the front of my MTB. Do I need all of that? Probably not. I've never been on a bike where I needed to use more than one finger to brake.

I don't think the rotor size has any bearing on braking force as such, since the pad size is the same, but larger rotors suffer less from heat build up.

seamus

Armchair physics 101, but I would have assumed that the distance from the centre point was inversely related to the force required to stop rotation?

That is larger rotors are further away from the centre of rotation and therefore the same force applied will stop the wheel more effectively?

For example, start your wheel spinning and then try and stop it by jamming a stick into the spokes near the rim and then near the hub and see which is more effective.

doozerie

seamus wrote:

For example, start your wheel spinning and then try and stop it by jamming a stick into the spokes near the rim and then near the hub and see which is more effective.

I presume you're not a scientist. A real scientist would jam their finger in there, not a stick. No pain = no progress = no published papers = no Nobel prize. You don't actually have to be a masochist to be a scientist, but it helps.

fenris

Rotor size is a lot to do with heat management and preventing brake fade / disc warping.

I know that as a bigger chap going up to a bigger rotor made a huge difference towards the latter part of a fast run on the MTB in terms of stopping power.

I tried the not braking so much thing and ended up with broken bits (wrist, ribs) whenever the adrenaline started writing cheques that my skill couldn't cover!

monkeypants

Lumen wrote: »

I don't think the rotor size has any bearing on braking force as such, since the pad size is the same, but larger rotors suffer less from heat build up.

I've been witnessing the rotor sizes on GP (motor)bikes increase over the decades, so there must be some relationship. It's got to work the same way as gearing does. Larger rotor means less force required to stop the wheel.

seamus

monkeypants wrote: »

I've been witnessing the rotor sizes on GP (motor)bikes increase over the decades, so there must be some relationship. It's got to work the same way as gearing does.

I imagine the primary problem with making rotors bigger is strength management. A large rotor will buckle more easily under pressure than a smaller one. So if you make the rotor bigger in diameter, you'll also have to make it thicker, adding weight and such.

The challenge for road bikes is minimising the rotor size while keeping performance strong. I would have thought that a larger (longer) pad would increase the effectiveness of the brake, though that requires a larger caliper & piston == more weight.