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Irish Water

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1356

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    #62
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,243 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Alun wrote: »
    Don't you also have a separate stop cock in the house itself?
    This is the point. Too many people rely on the council's (now Irish Water's) stop cock, which they don't own.

    Property owners should have their own valve where the mains supply enters the building.


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    #63
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    First reading will be 1st October by a drive-by van and second reading on 1st Jan. [Exact dates may vary - t&c apply:)]. They should read the meters at least once per month, but we shall see.

    The old DCC system was read over the air and was continuous - like every 15 mins (as far as I know) and as a result had problems with battery life. Also the transmission was a bit iffy in the summer due to tree in folliage. It was very successful but abandoned after a year or two. I do not think IW has used the results. Our meter was replaced a few weeks ago in a few minutes.

    The new meters store a history of readings (at least month end) - so the vans won't all have to be driving around on 1st Oct - it just wouldn't be possible. They can take the Oct 1st reading anytime - maybe even take the Oct and end of Dec reading at the same time - sometime in Jan or Feb. The first quarterly bills are due in the first quarter of 2015 - not on Jan 1st as the press would have us believe !

    See http://www.moneyguideireland.com/irish-water-meter-readings-how-will-it-work.html


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    #64
    a65b2cd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭a65b2cd


    Does anyone know who has been given a meter? All city and town dwellings? Villages? Non-domestic?


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    #65
    cocoman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭cocoman


    a65b2cd wrote: »
    Does anyone know who has been given a meter? All city and town dwellings? Villages? Non-domestic?

    It varies. In some counties all the meters have been installed - well all easily accessable ones. Some counties have not commenced installation of meters.

    Non domestic properties would already have a meter installed prior to Irish Water being established.


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    #66
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    Victor wrote: »
    This is the point. Too many people rely on the council's (now Irish Water's) stop cock, which they don't own.

    Property owners should have their own valve where the mains supply enters the building.

    Actually, not really the point.

    I should be able to isolate the mains supply from my entire property where the public main enters it. The stop-cock in the house is no use for any leak between the meter and the internal stop-cock or if I wanted to turn off the water for any other reason.


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    #67
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Is the trickle flow from the meters, the trickle the govt is allowing for non-payers?


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    #68
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Is the trickle flow from the meters, the trickle the govt is allowing for non-payers?

    My very first thought:)

    What came trough was a very low flow. You would probably take ages to fill a kettle. The water might eventually make the trip upstairs to the WC cistern.

    If Irish Water turn back the supply with the blue handle / stop-cock what is to stop the householder going out and turning it back to full ? Have they some way of locking the meter ?


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    #69
    NUTLEY BOY
    Registered Users Posts: 2,344 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    Just checked the CER website at http://www.cer.ie/customer-care/water/faqs

    They say "If households can afford to pay water charges but fail to pay, Irish Water is empowered under Irish water legislation to recover debt in an appropriate manner. Water disconnection of domestic properties due to non-payment of domestic water charges will be prohibited."

    So, whilst disconnection is verboten that does not mean that they cannot turn back your pressure.


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    #70
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    NUTLEY BOY wrote: »
    My very first thought:)

    What came trough was a very low flow. You would probably take ages to fill a kettle. The water might eventually make the trip upstairs to the WC cistern.

    If Irish Water turn back the supply with the blue handle / stop-cock what is to stop the householder going out and turning it back to full ? Have they some way of locking the meter ?

    If it ever comes to having to reduce the flow for non payment - they will have something a bit more sophisticated than the blue handle. It will probably involve the fitting of a special trickle flow valve by an engineer. It will be a last resort.. Fitting of these valves by water companies for non payment are banned in the UK .
    Anyone with combi boilers will have problems with low flow rates.


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    #71
    ben101
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭ben101


    Never mind the flow ,the following concerns me.
    http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_mr16JtDTk&sns=fb


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    #72
    rameire
    Registered Users Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭rameire


    ben101 wrote: »
    Never mind the flow ,the following concerns me.
    http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_mr16JtDTk&sns=fb

    ah for fs.
    sure wouldnt it just be easier to use chemtrails.

    🌞 3.8kwp, 🌞 Split 2.28S, 1.52E. 🌞 Clonee, Dub.🌞



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    #73
    ben101
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭ben101


    rameire wrote: »
    ah for fs.
    sure wouldnt it just be easier to use chemtrails.
    Glad you find it funny but you are missing the point,now it is extremely easy for your water supply to be contaminated either by accident or by a prank or a disgruntled neighbour who decides to put faeces in your water supply out of spite.There is no conspiracy,just a massive health and safety issue from very badly designed meters.


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    #74
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,527 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    ben101 wrote: »
    Glad you find it funny but you are missing the point,now it is extremely easy for your water supply to be contaminated either by accident or by a prank or a disgruntled neighbour who decides to put faeces in your water supply out of spite.There is no conspiracy,just a massive health and safety issue from very badly designed meters.

    But this risk already exists, very little with the meters gives any new risk.


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    #75
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,243 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    ben101 wrote: »
    Never mind the flow ,the following concerns me.
    http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_mr16JtDTk&sns=fb
    This is the Infrastructure forum. On-topic please.

    Moderator


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    #76
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 892 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    Apologies if this has been asked before.

    At the moment I can easily check my electricity and gas bill readings and correct an error if there has been one. All I have to do is look at the meters outside the house.

    The water meters are making an appearance in our parts these days. It looks like a special tool is needed to open and read them.

    Is there a simple way for a householder to double check her own readings if IW send her something what appears incorrect?


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    #77
    ben101
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭ben101


    Bray Head wrote: »
    Apologies if this has been asked before.

    At the moment I can easily check my electricity and gas bill readings and correct an error if there has been one. All I have to do is look at the meters outside the house.

    The water meters are making an appearance in our parts these days. It looks like a special tool is needed to open and read them.

    Is there a simple way for a householder to double check her own readings if IW send her something what appears incorrect?
    Should just pop open with a knife or screwdriver ,the video I posted shows how.Haven,t tried it but they look like they just pop open.


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    #78
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    ben101 wrote: »
    Should just pop open with a knife or screwdriver ,the video I posted shows how.Haven,t tried it but they look like they just pop open.

    There appears to be a second type that is more secure which requires a hex key to open. They appear to be used on driveways and are made of metal.

    The actual meter has black and red digits. The red digit are litres and the black ones are cubic metres. The top may have to be rotated to read the numbers, and the red digits are partially obscured.


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    #79
    ben101
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭ben101


    An interesting point the OP raises about who is responsible in flats etc. may become a bigger issue as An Post have instructed staff not to deliver the info packs if they just say "the householder" ,only items with a name will be delivered.


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    #80
    ben101
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭ben101


    An interesting point the OP raises about who is responsible in flats etc. may become a bigger issue as An Post have instructed staff not to deliver the info packs if they just say "the householder" ,only items with a name will be delivered.


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    #81
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    ben101 wrote: »
    An interesting point the OP raises about who is responsible in flats etc. may become a bigger issue as An Post have instructed staff not to deliver the info packs if they just say "the householder" ,only items with a name will be delivered.

    Where is that info coming from?
    An Post deliver thousands of "occupier" addressed stuff every day - how can they not deliver these?


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    #82
    ben101
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭ben101


    Ogham wrote: »
    Where is that info coming from?
    An Post deliver thousands of "occupier" addressed stuff every day - how can they not deliver these?

    Because its basically a bill so it needs a name on it for legal reasons just like any legal document which a utility bill would be classed as.I'd say the legal department in An Post advised them it would get messy unless there is a name otherwise it would be a nightmare to determine who is responsible especially if the property is rented,sub-letted etc.Thousands were delivered already until friday when delivery staff were told to deliver named letters only.Another example of something not thought out fully before implementation.If Irish Water have to chase someone called "the householder" through the courts for water charges how can they do this if the house has been sold several times in a short time space,has been broken up into several flats which in turn has several tenants subletting?Now Irish Water will have to find the names to go with thousands of properties,very messy.


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    #83
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    ben101 wrote: »
    Because its basically a bill so it needs a name on it for legal reasons just like any legal document which a utility bill would be classed as.I'd say the legal department in An Post advised them it would get messy unless there is a name otherwise it would be a nightmare to determine who is responsible especially if the property is rented,sub-letted etc.Thousands were delivered already until friday when delivery staff were told to deliver named letters only.Another example of something not thought out fully before implementation.If Irish Water have to chase someone called "the householder" through the courts for water charges how can they do this if the house has been sold several times in a short time space,has been broken up into several flats which in turn has several tenants subletting?Now Irish Water will have to find the names to go with thousands of properties,very messy.

    Your talking nonsense. An Post don't know what's in it, and it is not basically a bill. It's either a bill or it's not there is no basically. TV Licence payment requests get delivered to thousands if households every day and they are addressed to the occupier.


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    #84
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    First reading will be 1st October by a drive-by van and second reading on 1st Jan. [Exact dates may vary - t&c apply:)]. They should read the meters at least once per month, but we shall see.

    The old DCC system was read over the air and was continuous - like every 15 mins (as far as I know) and as a result had problems with battery life. Also the transmission was a bit iffy in the summer due to tree in folliage. It was very successful but abandoned after a year or two. I do not think IW has used the results. Our meter was replaced a few weeks ago in a few minutes.

    Some meters have a pulse output and they provided this output to some companies. I have several clients who I have set up data logging for. It requires a iskeameco p2g logger with a SIM card to send texts back to our software. ( or similar) battery life is about 6-10 years depending on the logging interval and how many uploads per day/ week.

    Only really relevant and financially viable for large industry users


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    #85
    ben101
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭ben101


    ted1 wrote: »
    Your talking nonsense. An Post don't know what's in it, and it is not basically a bill. It's either a bill or it's not there is no basically. TV Licence payment requests get delivered to thousands if households every day and they are addressed to the occupier.

    Its pretty obvious whats in it ,they are clearly labeled and they have advertised what it is in the media.If there are several adults in a property who fills in the details and pays it?And if they all move out how do you track them?Also i have never seen a TV licenced to "the house holder".Those TV licence letters are sent out by An Post when they don't have a name on the property and will probably be followed up by a visit from the inspector to get a name for the TV on the property.I don't think Irish Water have inspectors to track down people like An Post have.
    Regardless of wether you think i am "talking nonsense" if there is no name ,no delivery ,I know this for a fact and you can ring GPO monday if you like.


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    #86
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,243 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    ben101 wrote: »
    Because its basically a bill
    No it isn't. If it was a bill, it would have an amount of money on it.

    It's a leaflet and a form.


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    #87
    ben101
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭ben101


    Victor wrote: »
    No it isn't. If it was a bill, it would have an amount of money on it.

    It's a leaflet and a form.
    Its a form to fill in your details so they can bill you,thats why it needs a name on it.If every bill had no name there wouldn't be many getting paid.


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    #88
    BonkeyDonker
    Registered Users Posts: 571 ✭✭✭BonkeyDonker


    ben101 wrote: »
    Its a form to fill in your details so they can bill you,thats why it needs a name on it.If every bill had no name there wouldn't be many getting paid.

    Its not a bill. It a form to be filled in by one of the occupiers of a premises. In my example I filed it in as I currently have no utilities in my name - the electricity is in the name of the other occupier. Also as many people are more than willing to point out - you do not have to fill it in if you don't want water.

    I would imagine that once bills issue then they will be correctly addressed.


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    #89
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,527 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    ben101 wrote: »
    Its a form to fill in your details so they can bill you,thats why it needs a name on it.If every bill had no name there wouldn't be many getting paid.

    Ben101, not Mr Gilroy by any chance ?


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    #90
    ben101
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭ben101


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Ben101, not Mr Gilroy by any chance ?

    No just ben.Sorry but don't get your point ,haven't said anything controversial.I would guess that someone complained to An Post about the water charges having no name on them ,maybe someone renting who thinks the property owner is liable.Whats interesting about this is who is liable for the charge?Tenant,property owner,etc.Because the charge is so unpopular if you send them out with no name on them they are going to be ignored.On a postal point of view ,if a registered letter gets sent out to a property looking for money for non payment for services rendered with a possible legal threat of prosecution ,well ,not too many people sign for registered letters that don't have their name on it so chances of it being signed for are slim.Bottom line is you have to have a name on something like this,to be honest i would say about 90% or more are named but there is still a big chunk of properties that have yet to be determined who is responsible for the charges.


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    #91
    Ogham
    Registered Users Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Ogham


    ben101 wrote: »
    No just ben.Sorry but don't get your point ,haven't said anything controversial.I would guess that someone complained to An Post about the water charges having no name on them ,maybe someone renting who thinks the property owner is liable.Whats interesting about this is who is liable for the charge?Tenant,property owner,etc.Because the charge is so unpopular if you send them out with no name on them they are going to be ignored.On a postal point of view ,if a registered letter gets sent out to a property looking for money for non payment for services rendered with a possible legal threat of prosecution ,well ,not too many people sign for registered letters that don't have their name on it so chances of it being signed for are slim.Bottom line is you have to have a name on something like this,to be honest i would say about 90% or more are named but there is still a big chunk of properties that have yet to be determined who is responsible for the charges.

    I still don't believe An Post are refusing to deliver these forms.


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