Circumcision???

Wibbs

philologos wrote: »

You'd also need to show that it was more common in 19th century Britain.

It was. Good, if long read that link.

Owen_S

The fact that many of the countries with the highest prevalence of circumcision are also amongst the countries with the highest prevalence of female genital mutilation suggests that it is done primarily due to barbaric reasons, not because of medical reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_female_genital_mutilation_by_country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision

I'm personally against it. Forcing religions on the new born children is bad enough, mutilating them is even worse, especially when there are negligible medical benefits in the developed world.

philologos

Wibbs wrote: »

It was. Good, if long read that link.

I'm questioning the impartiality of that link to be honest. Thanks for showing me it was more widely practiced in Britain in the 19th century. That doesn't tell me why it is advocated as a medical procedure in the US and Canada however.

It seems that in terms of sexual effects, that they are mixed according to the wikipedia entry. It seems that the idea that sexual pleasure is decreased for circumcised males is on anecdotal evidence alone. The entry also walks through some of the pro's and con's behind circumcision. The idea that it is all bad seems to be wrong.

General General

Easy solution: make the parents, temple/church/mosque & the circumcisor(?) open for litigation. No taxpayer liability. Make a guideline compensation amount something like the expected inheritance of the child, a portion of the assets of the temple/church/mosque equivalent to that of one worshipper (i.e: assets = £20 million, worshippers = 20,000, payment = £1000), likewise compensation from the person who performed the circumcision.

Set this compensation to a minimum total of £250,000, if this is not reached using the first guidelines, the draw more money from parents/temple/church/mosque/circumcisor to make up the amount.

Sit back & watch. See how many 21-year-olds decide that the tradition wasn't a tradition & was instead abuse meriting compensation.

Many things can be solved using litigation.

Gbear

philologos wrote: »

It seems that in terms of sexual effects, that they are mixed according to the wikipedia entry. It seems that the idea that sexual pleasure is decreased for circumcised males is on anecdotal evidence alone. The entry also walks through some of the pro's and con's behind circumcision. The idea that it is all bad seems to be wrong.

To be honest, that isn't relevant to the debate.

That it's an invasive unnecessary procedure (relevant medical issues notwithstanding) is enough for it children not to be exposed to it. There's no downside to leaving them decide for themselves.
It could make sex 10 times more amazing and I'd still think it's not acceptable to force children into it.
You can always choose to get it done later. You cannot, on the other hand, regrow a foreskin.

philologos

Gbear wrote: »

To be honest, that isn't relevant to the debate.

Of course it is relevant. The justifications and the arguments for circumcision couldn't be more relevant to the debate.

Gbear wrote: »

That it's an invasive unnecessary procedure (relevant medical issues notwithstanding) is enough for it children not to be exposed to it. There's no downside to leaving them decide for themselves.
It could make sex 10 times more amazing and I'd still think it's not acceptable to force children into it.
You can always choose to get it done later. You cannot, on the other hand, regrow a foreskin.

I'm not an advocate of circumcision, nor am I a critic. I don't believe there is any significant or real harm done by it. Therefore it's not an issue I'm hugely vocal about.

Sierra 117

Anyone who has their child circumcised for any reason other than medical is abusing their child. Pure and simple. Religious beliefs should not be entertained whatsoever.

opinion guy

philologos wrote: »

I'm not an advocate of circumcision, nor am I a critic. I don't believe there is any significant or real harm done by it. Therefore it's not an issue I'm hugely vocal about.

A small, but definable number of boys die each year as a result of the procedure. Surely that is reason enough to outlaw it ?

I greet your claims of impartiality with great skepticism I must say.

philologos

opinion guy wrote: »

A small, but definable number of boys die each year as a result of the procedure. Surely that is reason enough to outlaw it ?

I greet your claims of impartiality with great skepticism I must say.

Should we outlaw all medical procedures because a small number of people may die from them? Or if you say that circumcision isn't medical, compare it to cosmetic surgery. I'd hazard a guess to say that most complications from circumcision are done by careless procedures.

I have no interest in circumcision personally, and I wouldn't advocate it, but I don't believe that considerable harm is done by circumcision for the most part.

Sierra 117

philologos wrote: »

Should we outlaw all medical procedures because a small number of people may die from them? Or if you say that circumcision isn't medical, compare it to cosmetic surgery.

The difference is that adults undergoing surgery, medical or cosmetic, are made aware of the risks and give their consent. A child has no such luxury. Please, stop posting nonsense.

paddyandy

Babys' cry at christenings .....i've never heard the mildest protest about it .

My name is URL

philologos wrote: »

Should we outlaw all medical procedures because a small number of people may die from them? Or if you say that circumcision isn't medical, compare it to cosmetic surgery. I'd hazard a guess to say that most complications from circumcision are done by careless procedures.

I have no interest in circumcision personally, and I wouldn't advocate it, but I don't believe that considerable harm is done by circumcision for the most part.

Would you have no issue with parents deciding to have cosmetic surgery needlessly carried out on their children?

Craebear

paddyandy wrote: »

Babys' cry at christenings .....i've never heard the mildest protest about it .

Are you retarded?

Neeson

Gbear wrote: »

You can always choose to get it done later. You cannot, on the other hand, regrow a foreskin.

Can you not get a graft or a transplant from a donor though?

Adyx

philologos wrote: »

Should we outlaw all medical procedures because a small number of people may die from them? Or if you say that circumcision isn't medical, compare it to cosmetic surgery. I'd hazard a guess to say that most complications from circumcision are done by careless procedures.

I have no interest in circumcision personally, and I wouldn't advocate it, but I don't believe that considerable harm is done by circumcision for the most part.

You can't compare it to cosmetic surgery. That's done with the patient's consent (usually).

The problem is that the procedure whether careless or not is usually unnecessary. Just because it's carried out without harming the child doesn't make it okay so why even subject them to it?

laoch na mona

genital mutilation is always wrong

Gael23

My name is URL wrote: »

Would you have no issue with parents deciding to have cosmetic surgery needlessly carried out on their children?

This is exactly correct. Unless its for a medical reason it is cosmetic surgery in my view

opinion guy

philologos wrote: »

Should we outlaw all medical procedures because a small number of people may die from them? Or if you say that circumcision isn't medical, compare it to cosmetic surgery. I'd hazard a guess to say that most complications from circumcision are done by careless procedures.

Medical procedures shoudl carry a definable and clear benfit. Circumcision doesn't. Do we do cosmetic surgery on babies ?? Other thanc ircumcision of course ? No.

I have no interest in circumcision personally, and I wouldn't advocate it, but I don't believe that considerable harm is done by circumcision for the most part.

If you have no interest why do you have more posts than anyone else in the last few pages? I believe you are biased. You see an anti-circumcision viewpoint as anti-religious and possibily part of some atheist agenda. Sure its not your religion, but then I reckon you'd take any religion over atheism wouldn't you ?

Chuck Stone

paddyandy wrote: »

Babys' cry at christenings .....i've never heard the mildest protest about it .

Craebear wrote: »

Are you retarded?

paddyandy reminds me of 'that guy' who says things in the pub and if you didn't know him you'd be like;

'WTF is he on about'?

'Ah that just paddyandy - he says things'

philologos

opinion guy wrote: »

Medical procedures shoudl carry a definable and clear benfit. Circumcision doesn't. Do we do cosmetic surgery on babies ?? Other thanc ircumcision of course ? No.

I think there are arguments to say that in many respects circumcision can offer benefit. Again, take a look at the Wikipedia entry in some of the sections.

opinion guy wrote: »

If you have no interest why do you have more posts than anyone else in the last few pages? I believe you are biased. You see an anti-circumcision viewpoint as anti-religious and possibily part of some atheist agenda. Sure its not your religion, but then I reckon you'd take any religion over atheism wouldn't you ?

Christianity doesn't promote circumcision, and I don't really advocate anything else. My position isn't any religion above atheism by the by. Simply put, I'm not opposed to circumcision, primarily because I don't believe it brings any harm to the individual.

I don't agree that I would take any religion above atheism. I'm interested in what makes good sense in light of what is real.

paddyandy

We have 500+- Suicides in Ireland every year and many murders but those Tragedies don't get much attention on Boards.ie i wonder why ????????
Now a Circumcision i would have thought is a relatively minor thing ?????

ah wots the problem??

ive had ex boyfriends who werent circumsized, i have one ex boyfriend who was. i remember the one that was.
it was great, everything was great if you know what i mean.......

18 years later, i remember him.


just saying.......

Chuck Stone

paddyandy wrote: »

We have 500+- Suicides in Ireland every year and many murders but those Tragedies don't get much attention on Boards.ie i wonder why ????????

But.. this is a discussion about circumcision?

Now a Circumcision i would have thought is a relatively minor thing ?????

If you compare circumcision to ear piercing then circumcision is a relatively big thing.

I'm no Einstein but aren't all things kinda relative?

bubblypop wrote: »

ah wots the problem??

The thing with the taking a scalpel and mutilating babies which, at worst, results in death?

paddyandy

We are great at things that don't really concern us and avoid issues that should .

Dimithy

paddyandy wrote: »

We are great at things that don't really concern us and avoid issues that should .

Go start a thread about things you want to talk about then, and stop posting inane replies in this one?
Just a suggestion.

gcgirl

paddyandy wrote: »

We are great at things that don't really concern us and avoid issues that should .

We do have a thread it's the let's laugh about depression one which is a brill support to those of us the black dog likes to follow

Dimithy

bubblypop wrote: »

ah wots the problem??

ive had ex boyfriends who werent circumsized, i have one ex boyfriend who was. i remember the one that was.
it was great, everything was great if you know what i mean.......

18 years later, i remember him.


just saying.......

None of this changes the fact that this is done to very young children before they have the capacity to object.
Every man over the age of 18 can get circumsized for all I care, just leave babies alone.
I will never understand how a parent can look at a newborn baby boy and think "Right, lets cut a bit of his cock off"

Paddy Cow

paddyandy wrote: »

Babys' cry at christenings .....i've never heard the mildest protest about it .

Babies cry when being given a bath. What's your point?

I think they should cut off babies' arms just after they're born, it'll save them ever breaking their arm in later life.

Gran Hermano

In before the mod snip.