Government to cut rent supplement

Villa05

AlekSmart wrote: »

Or....the same people have to consider diverting income from...erm....other sources into paying the difference between RA and the rent being sought ?.

Rent allowance does not work that way, there is a ceiling for each area if you look for rent allowance for a property that is above the ceiling, the application is rejected.

Could we apply the same logic to landlords/ladys who are not paying their mortgage.

Villa05

not yet wrote: »

But think of the childer....

I am sick to death of listening to the sh1te about bread lines and the like.the real poor in this country are people working on 25-40k simple as.

Speaking to one of my former colleagues recently one of 3,000+ that lost there jobs in the Dell pull out, she applied for rent allowance on the property she was renting while working, however rent allowance was refused as the property was considered not fit for her family.

She was upgraded to a nice 3 bed semi in a nice area. She had taken the time to upskill and eventually got herself work. She now struggles to pay the rent on this property.

Crazy Country, Only Fools and Horses eh!

Tragedy

MMAGirl wrote: »

the only effect that cutting rent allowance has had is that people who cant afford a standard of living must now move somewhere, where they can. freeing up the better properties for those who can afford them.

There are 3 shares for under €300 in South County Dublin that accept rent supplement(allowance).

Three.

There are 0 in South Dublin City.

Zero.

In the whole of Dublin, there are exactly 5 shares on Daft for under the maximum threshold (€300) that accept RS.

Pray tell, where do you expect people to move to - Leitrim?

Also, could you provide some evidence that RS recipients have historically been hoovering up the 'better properties'?

There are two arguments made on this thread.
1) RS shouldn't exist
2) RS sets an artificial price floor and cutting RS would reduce rents.

#2 has been pretty definitively proven to be untrue, so people have moved on to #1.

Tragedy

AlekSmart wrote: »

Or....the same people have to consider diverting income from...erm....other sources into paying the difference between RA and the rent being sought ?

You aren't allowed to do that.

By this I mean reducing the spend on Cigarettes,Tobacco,Mobile Phone credit,alcohol and substance purchases,clothing and jewellery to name but a few.

That's a hell of a generalisation. Do you have any evidence to show that RS recipients are spending significant sums of money on luxuries?

I am also aware personally of upfront RA recipient/s who can still manage to run a car (fully Taxed and NCT'd too !),which I fully admit is not to be taken as indicative of ALL such recipients,but still demonstrates that austerity is an elastic term to many.

And? Tax on a 1l Micra is €199, insurance is likely to be less than €500, servicing and NCT costs would be miniscule (<€120). For a single parent with 3 children, the outlay of less than €1,000 per year for transport is quite small (considering their RS threshold is €900-€950 per month).

I like your posts on C&T Alek, but the above post is a bunch of hasty and unsupported generalisations and do you a disservice. It would have been more honest to write "SOCIAL WELFARE IS A JOKE AND DE PEOPLE ON IT LIVE EASY LIVES", as that's essentially what your post boils down to.

AlekSmart

Tragedy wrote: »

You aren't allowed to do that.

That's a hell of a generalisation. Do you have any evidence to show that RS recipients are spending significant sums of money on luxuries?

And? Tax on a 1l Micra is €199, insurance is likely to be less than €500, servicing and NCT costs would be miniscule (<€120). For a single parent with 3 children, the outlay of less than €1,000 per year for transport is quite small (considering their RS threshold is €900-€950 per month).

I like your posts on C&T Alek, but the above post is a bunch of hasty and unsupported generalisations and do you a disservice. It would have been more honest to write "SOCIAL WELFARE IS A JOKE AND DE PEOPLE ON IT LIVE EASY LIVES", as that's essentially what your post boils down to.

Sorry that you interpret my post as this,tragedy,as that's far from my point.

In 2011,over 98,000 recipients of Rent Supplement cost the State €502 Million,with approx 50% being between 20-34 years old.

The "evidence",if thats what you wish to call it,is based purely upon my own personal knowledge of RS situations in a North Eastern town relating to three seperate properties.

All involved cohabitating,all involved partners either in Full-Time employment or on part time "Return to Work" schemes/courses.

In recent years,parking became an issue,particularly with partners whose vans contained Tools of Trade which needed to be secured.

Over the few years I have known the properties,the tenancies have changed as claimants succceeded in accquiring Council Properties,sometimes following representations regarding medical priorities/suitability of accomodation,as new babies arrived.

What was especially interesting for me,as an initially disinterested observer,was the level of preparedness and general savvy,which saw siblings recommending younger sisters (usually) as replacement tenants,as it would be "much easier for the Landlord" as the need to interview and seek new references would be lessened.

A very major issue for all the claimants was that they remain close to their parents,as it made childminding a bit easier,should they "get a bit of part-time work"

What I also found interesting was the general level of familiarity which these young folk had with the Local DSP Staff,particularly the SWO in charge of the various procedures involved.

To an outside observer it appeared to be a mutually agreeable "relationship" in which both parties managed to make each others daily lives a wee bit easier.

I never once heard any of the individuals,or their partners, worry aloud or bemoan their situation,in fact on any of the occasions I had cause to visit the properties,I was very impressed with the general high standard of living on view.
(I'm not going to get involved in all that oul nonsense about Plasma-Screens and the likes,but my experience was of a very high level of comfort,sometimes in excess of what a full time employed person could hope to maintain.)

I would point out,that since Joan Burton became Minister for Social Protection,there appears to have been a significant alteration in how the SWO's perform their duties,which has led to a deterioration in the previously friendly relationships.

All that being said,It's still a far cry from me saying ALL DSP recipients have it handy,cos that statement is NOT TRUE.

Some,however,have managed to devise various means to lessen the negative effects of DSP investigation,whilst SOME claimants actually manage to do very Well out of the DSP.

There is at least the beginnings of a more robust DSP approach now in place,with the promise of more to come,but whether Political Reality will allow for this to come about is a moot point.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/DSP_Fraud_Initiative_Progress_Report_to_end_Dec_%202012.pdf

That,to me is the reality of it.

It's pretty widely accepted that a significant proportion of our Social Welfare system is indeed in dire straits and even worthy of the term "Joke".

However,you'll struggle to find evidence of me saying People on Social Welfare live Easy Lives"

But,there are a significant number who have,over a prolonged period of time,familiarized themselves intimately with a raft of ramshackle and byzantine DSP systems,some of which allowed for significant levels of benefit to be availed of,rather than had these people adhered strictly to the conditions relevant to their own status.

Again,Tragedy,I'm sorry that you take my points as a generalization,but I'm only going on the situations I was/am familiar with and I have no problem accepting that they are specific to me and my involvement.

Make of it what you will.

MMAGirl

Tragedy wrote: »

There are 3 shares for under €300 in South County Dublin that accept rent supplement(allowance).

Three.

There are 0 in South Dublin City.

Zero.

In the whole of Dublin, there are exactly 5 shares on Daft for under the maximum threshold (€300) that accept RS.

Pray tell, where do you expect people to move to - Leitrim?

Also, could you provide some evidence that RS recipients have historically been hoovering up the 'better properties'?

There are two arguments made on this thread.
1) RS shouldn't exist
2) RS sets an artificial price floor and cutting RS would reduce rents.

#2 has been pretty definitively proven to be untrue, so people have moved on to #1.

tbh its not up to me to figure out where people that want to collect RA can afford to live. that would be up to them.
if they cant afford to live where they used to live on RA anymore then the choice is the street, or go find a cheaper place be that in Leitrim or wherever they find it.
i believe RA is needed. if it was zero then im sure the street is the only option for the unemployable. not everyone can move home.
and i believe the drop in RA has had no effect on rent prices. extra taxes on properties has had more of an effect on rent prices.

n97 mini

Leitrim is a lovely spot!

As it happens I know a few people on SW who have moved there in recent years simply because their RA goes so much further.

StillWaters

n97 mini wrote: »

Leitrim is a lovely spot!

As it happens I know a few people on SW who have moved there in recent years simply because their RA goes so much further.

Not just their RA, but their SW payment also. Now of course people seeking employment really need to stay near large urban centres, but I think it's fair to say this is not a concern for a certain %, particularly those who have mutated to structural unemployment.

AlekSmart

StillWaters wrote: »

Not just their RA, but their SW payment also. Now of course people seeking employment really need to stay near large urban centres, but I think it's fair to say this is not a concern for a certain %, particularly those who have mutated to structural unemployment.

Classic !!!

Sometimes one has to marvel at the power of the English Language to provide an accurate description of something you've spent ages mulling over....:D

StillWaters

AlekSmart wrote: »

Classic !!!

Sometimes one has to marvel at the power of the English Language to provide an accurate description of something you've spent ages mulling over....:D

Thanks. Cant claim credit for it. Ireland is currently in amber trying to avoid long term unemployment (1 year +) becoming structural unemployment (3 years +). If we do not suceed, we are in trouble. One of the OECDs recomendations to us to avoid such a scenario is:
'Review the work incentive effects of other welfare benefits, especially housing allowances'

Ie the current RA systen encourages welfare dependency. Duh!

n97 mini

StillWaters wrote: »

Not just their RA, but their SW payment also. Now of course people seeking employment really need to stay near large urban centres, but I think it's fair to say this is not a concern for a certain %, particularly those who have mutated to structural unemployment.

Yes, that too. It's especially easy if you have no ties to any part of the country. Why be unemployed in a 3-bed semi miles out in the suburbs when you could have an apartment overlooking the Shannon for half the price!

AlekSmart

n97 mini wrote: »

Yes, that too. It's especially easy if you have no ties to any part of the country. Why be unemployed in a 3-bed semi miles out in the suburbs when you could have an apartment overlooking the Shannon for half the price!

Hmmm n97,I wonder would it be coz renting is "Dead Money" and in this land it's considered far more sensible to "own" (be tied to,Via a 40 year mortgage) yer own place rather than have the ability to be mobile and follow the job's (and money) to other parts ?

n97 mini

AlekSmart wrote: »

Hmmm n97,I wonder would it be coz renting is "Dead Money"

RA is covering the rent either way, and the attitude of the people I know is why not enjoy your unemployment and maximise your position? The maximum RA in Leitrim is €400, in North Kildare it's €790. €400 will get you a lot better lifestyle in Leitrim (see above) than €790 will in North Kildare.

Maura74

n97 mini wrote: »

RA is covering the rent either way, and the attitude of the people I know is why not enjoy your unemployment and maximise your position? The maximum RA in Leitrim is €400, in North Kildare it's €790. €400 will get you a lot better lifestyle in Leitrim (see above) than €790 will in North Kildare.

I know its the 1st April but Rent Allowance is also cut inthe UK today, IDA has put a limit on it to £400 in England including London. I have to agree with this as Rent Allowance only benefits Landlords/ladies and keeps house prices up and is paid for by the tax payers even those on minimum wage.

Tragedy

MMAGirl wrote: »

tbh its not up to me to figure out where people that want to collect RA can afford to live.

Very helpful! Perhaps we should take the least populated county, call it County Welfare and send them all there? Nevermind, it's not up to you to figure anything out or suggest anything :rolleyes:

if they cant afford to live where they used to live on RA anymore then the choice is the street, or go find a cheaper place be that in Leitrim or wherever they find it.

One option isn't an option, the other 'option' is encouraging structural unemployment. How is one meant to find a job if one has to move to the cheapest, most downtrodden, highest unemployment areas? Don't think you thought that one through.

extra taxes on properties has had more of an effect on rent prices.

If that was true we would have seen some sort of correlation between rent prices and household charge/property tax. We haven't.
Rents and houseprices are still falling outside Dublin (and I think Cork?), but rising fast in Dublin.

StillWaters

Tragedy wrote: »

Very helpful! Perhaps we should take the least populated county, call it County Welfare and send them all there? Nevermind, it's not up to you to figure anything out or suggest anything.

well perhaps you could suggest then how our very costly RA system could be reviewed so that it encourages activation.

MMAGirl

Tragedy wrote: »

Very helpful! Perhaps we should take the least populated county, call it County Welfare and send them all there? Nevermind, it's not up to you to figure anything out or suggest anything :rolleyes:



One option isn't an option, the other 'option' is encouraging structural unemployment. How is one meant to find a job if one has to move to the cheapest, most downtrodden, highest unemployment areas? Don't think you thought that one through.


If that was true we would have seen some sort of correlation between rent prices and household charge/property tax. We haven't.
Rents and houseprices are still falling outside Dublin (and I think Cork?), but rising fast in Dublin.

Think about your post there.
Bark all you want.
Still not up to me to find you a home you can afford.
You sound like another one of those people who wants everything handed to them. Go out and empower yourself to get the things you want and you might get better results than moaning on the internet.
Next you'll be expecting me to find you a job too. And if i did find you one you would be complaining the work is too hard before you even started.