Why must we claim non-Irish people for Ireland?

grenache

Why do we do it? RTE in particular are notorious for it. The seem to love pinching people from the North. The likes of Rory McIlroy, Darren Clarke or Eddie Irvine did not learn their trade in our country. They were not taught the basic skills of their sport here, nor did they receive any funding from the Irish government or Sports Council.

Now, i know some of you will try and play the "but they are from the island of Ireland" card. But to me that matters not a jot. So is Ian Paisley. They are United Kingdom as far as i'm concerned and should be treated as so. If we're going to try to claim the North's sports stars, why don't RTE start to give us regular updates on the fortunes of the North's soccer team.

It's a total farce that we would try to claim people that were neither born or schooled here. Ditto British people who have Irish links e.g. Daniel Day Lewis. Lost count of how many times i've seen him described as an "Irishman". He might live in Wicklow and have an Irish passport, but he's not Irish. He is British.

This nonsense and "plastic paddy syndrome" has to stop.

starbelgrade

Spike Milligan tried to get British citizenship & felt he was entitled to it as he fought in the British Army, but he was refused on the grounds that he wouldn't swear allegiance to the British monarch.

He wrote to Prince Charles about it, who replied that swearing an oath to the Queen wasn't all that bad. Milligan replied, "that's easy for you to say - she's your mother".

So he came to Ireland & asked if he could have a passport. The guy at the passport office recognised him & he was granted citizenship on the grounds that there 'weren't enough Irish in the world'.

The moral of the story is - there's little point in splitting hairs over this shit. There's very few people who are 100% from one place or the other, and in the end, does it really matter - especially when you can claim the likes of Spike Milligan as 'one of our own'?

RickRoll

Sure O' Bama was born and bread in Moneygall. Me hole he's no more Irish than a Roma begger.

IM0

to alot of people outside Ireland there is no Northern \ireland, or at least they dont realise its a whole different country and uses a different currency

source: 7 years of travelling

charlemont

Here we go again, I'v read rubbish !! I'v even posted rubbish but this post is clearly the biggest pile of rubbish I'v read in a long time.

TeddyTedson

Because we're all on the same island. Anyone born on this damned island is Irish in my eyes anyway. I'm not interested in the politics of everything. That's a load of ****e. I was born on this island so I'm Irish.

Chuck Stone

Just STFU.

myflipflops

grenache wrote: »

, i know some of you will try and play the "but they are from the island of Ireland" card. But to me that matters not a jot. So is Ian Paisley. They are United Kingdom as far as i'm concerned and should be treated as so..

You can be British and Irish you know. The same as people are Welsh or Scottish or English and also British.

Is Darren Gibson a 'Plastic Paddy'? What about Andrew Trimble or Rory Best? By your statements above, all three of them are.

Yakult

We? WE???


Theirs no 'we' buddy.

TeddyTedson

Sure you're from Cork are you OP? Don't you lot think you're in your own country down there?

grenache

charlemont wrote: »

Here we go again, I'v read rubbish !! I'v even posted rubbish but this post is clearly the biggest pile of rubbish I'v read in a long time.

Anyone can say it's rubbish, but that's pretty easy if you're not bothered in explaining your answer.

AlmightyCushion

myflipflops wrote: »

You can be British and Irish you know. The same as people are Welsh or Scottish or English and also British.

Not really. Northern Ireland isn't apart of Great Britain, it's apart of the United Kingdom.

mikemac1

grenache wrote: »

So is Ian Paisley. They are United Kingdom as far as i'm concerned and should be treated as so.

"I am an Irishman because you cannot be an Ulsterman without being an Irishman"


Do some more reading on the subject OP

Wattle

If Georgie Best hadda stayed on the dry and declared for us we woulda won the World Cup. Bestie up front running rings around defenders and big Pat Jennings in goal blocking every damn thing with his huge head.

El Weirdo

"Meh" doesn't really convey my lack thoughts on this subject.

Meh x 1,000,000?

bwatson

TeddyTedson wrote: »

Because we're all on the same island. Anyone born on this damned island is Irish in my eyes anyway. I'm not interested in the politics off everything. That's a load of ****e. I was born on this island so I'm Irish.

Please be aware that not everybody is looking at it through your eyes, and that in general political factors are far more influencial than geographic factors in determining who and what somebody is. Especially on this island. I'm from Northern Ireland, thanks.

Anyway, its part insecurity and part desperation. You are a small country with a small population. You feel a need to cling on to any worldwide recognition or admiration that you can get.

It happens a lot in the North too. There are some there who will do the same thing and make sure everyone knows McIlroy is from Northern Ireland at every opportunity. It just comes from being rather small and insignificant on the world stage and knowing that this is the case.

In my experiences it happens in England and Scotland too, but to a lesser extent. An example - far more of the English I know are content to support Andy Murray's opponent because he is a Scot who (in jest or not) expressed his dislike of the English, than there are who will desperately try and promote him as Britain's number one.

charlemont

grenache wrote: »

Anyone can say it's rubbish, but that's pretty easy if you're not bothered in explaining your answer.

Well I think your post explains itself, The rest of the adults here don't need an explanation from me as to why your post is rubbish.

grenache

myflipflops wrote: »

You can be British and Irish you know. The same as people are Welsh or Scottish or English and also British.

Is Darren Gibson a 'Plastic Paddy'? What about Andrew Trimble or Rory Best? By your statements above, all three of them are.

Difference with the rugby boys is that they play for Ireland. There's only one rugby team on the island. But no, Best and Trimble could not be described as Irish. Not in the proper sense of the word anyway. Two of the only guys who don't sing the anthem. That's fine and i respect that, but don't have anyone tell me that they are Irish, merely because they play for the Ireland rugby team.

Teddy, i am not from Cork. I am from Limerick, i just live in Cork.

starbelgrade

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Not really. Northern Ireland isn't apart of Great Britain, it's apart of the United Kingdom.

You can be British and be Irish in that you can claim dual nationality & hold a passport from Ireland & the UK (once you meet the required criteria).

Atlantic Dawn

Anyone in the 32 counties of Ireland can be claimed as Irish, all born here are entitled to an Irish passport if they so wish.

starbelgrade

bwatson wrote: »

Please be aware that not everybody is looking at it through your eyes

Me-fucking-ow!

Trader1991

grenache wrote: »

Why do we do it? RTE in particular are notorious for it. The seem to love pinching people from the North. The likes of Rory McIlroy, Darren Clarke or Eddie Irvine did not learn their trade in our country. They were not taught the basic skills of their sport here, nor did they receive any funding from the Irish government or Sports Council.

Now, i know some of you will try and play the "but they are from the island of Ireland" card. But to me that matters not a jot. So is Ian Paisley. They are United Kingdom as far as i'm concerned and should be treated as so. If we're going to try to claim the North's sports stars, why don't RTE start to give us regular updates on the fortunes of the North's soccer team.

It's a total farce that we would try to claim people that were neither born or schooled here. Ditto British people who have Irish links e.g. Daniel Day Lewis. Lost count of how many times i've seen him described as an "Irishman". He might live in Wicklow and have an Irish passport, but he's not Irish. He is British.

This nonsense and "plastic paddy syndrome" has to stop.

Rory McIlroy and Darren Clarke did learn their trade in the republic as well as the north. The golfing union of Ireland includes all four provinces, and most of the golf(tournaments) they played when they were younger was in the republic. I watched rory mcilroy win the west of Ireland championship a couple of times. He also played for the Irish team.

bwatson

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Not really. Northern Ireland isn't apart of Great Britain, it's apart of the United Kingdom.

But you can be a British citizen if you wish to be should you be born in Northern Ireland. The people of the United Kingdom are known as the British. Britain is a term which has long been used and widely accepted when speaking of the United Kingdom and its people - from military to political histories it is very much accepted.

Sindri

starbelgrade wrote: »

Spike Milligan tried to get British citizenship & felt he was entitled to it as he fought in the British Army, but he was refused on the grounds that he wouldn't swear allegiance to the British monarch.

He wrote to Prince Charles about it, who replied that swearing an oath to the Queen wasn't all that bad. Milligan replied, "that's easy for you to say - she's your mother".

So he came to Ireland & asked if he could have a passport. The guy at the passport office recognised him & he was granted citizenship on the grounds that there 'weren't enough Irish in the world'.

The moral of the story is - there's little point in splitting hairs over this shit. There's very few people who are 100% from one place or the other, and in the end, does it really matter - especially when you can claim the likes of Spike Milligan as 'one of our own'?

Wasn't his father Irish?

grenache

charlemont wrote: »

Well I think your post explains itself, The rest of the adults here don't need an explanation from me as to why your post is rubbish.

Right.....

You do know that the whole point of a forum like boards is for people to debate things and explain their point of view? Instead of throwing cheapshots without backing them up??

fullstop

grenache wrote: »

Why do we do it? RTE in particular are notorious for it. The seem to love pinching people from the North. The likes of Rory McIlroy, Darren Clarke or Eddie Irvine did not learn their trade in our country. They were not taught the basic skills of their sport here, nor did they receive any funding from the Irish government or Sports Council.

Sigh, I wish you would at least have got your facts straight before coming on spouting ****e. If you did you'd know that golf is an all-Ireland sport and the Clarke and especially McIlroy benefitted hugely from GUI (Golfing Union of IRELAND) funding and coaching programmed and were sent all around the world representing, you've guessed it, IRELAND at the union's expense. So STFU

Standard Toaster

Éamon de Valera, James Larkin and Adam Clayton are turning in their respective graves.

dlofnep

"But at the end of the day, I’m Irish. I mean, I’ve got a British passport, but if you’re from Ireland, north or south, you’re Irish. And ‘British’ is. . . such a nondescript thing, isn't it?"

-Eddie Irvine

Pherekydes

grenache wrote: »

Ditto British people who have Irish links e.g. Daniel Day Lewis. Lost count of how many times i've seen him described as an "Irishman". He might live in Wicklow and have an Irish passport, but he's not Irish. He is British.

He has an Irish passport and lives here. What more do you want?

A man can't control where he is born.

El Weirdo

starbelgrade wrote: »

Me-fucking-ow!

Exactly.

TeddyTedson

bwatson wrote: »

Please be aware that not everybody is looking at it through your eyes, and that in general political factors are far more influencial than geographic factors in determining who and what somebody is. Especially on this island. I'm from Northern Ireland, thanks.

Anyway, its part insecurity and part desperation. You are a small country with a small population. You feel a need to cling on to any worldwide recognition or admiration that you can get.

It happens a lot in the North too. There are some there who will do the same thing and make sure everyone knows McIlroy is from Northern Ireland at every opportunity. It just comes from being rather small and insignificant on the world stage and knowing that this is the case.

In my experiences it happens in England and Scotland too, but to a lesser extent. An example - far more of the English I know are content to support Andy Murray's opponent because he is a Scot who (in jest or not) expressed his dislike of the English, than there are who will desperately try and promote him as Britain's number one.

You are from the island of Ireland.

My god that is a condescending post.

starbelgrade

El Weirdo wrote: »

Exactly.

Fernando Torres' sports bag. Nice.

Sleepy

OP, it's something that's irritated me for a long time too.

Try telling anyone in Northern Ireland that's on welfare that they're Irish when their Irish counterparts get twice their dole.

Chuck Stone

Funny enough but most successful Protestant people from NI are quite comfortable with being identified as being Irish.

It's a credit to them that they are able to shake off the bollocks that they've been indoctrinated with by their families and communities.

grenache

Trader1991 wrote: »

Rory McIlroy and Darren Clarke did learn their trade in the republic as well as the north. The golfing union of Ireland includes all four provinces, and most of the golf(tournaments) they played when they were younger was in the republic. I watched rory mcilroy win the west of Ireland championship a couple of times. He also played for the Irish team.

While i accept your point that both Clarke and McIlroy played in the South many times, most of their day to day training would have taken place in the North. Along with any sports funding they received. For me, they represent Northern Ireland.

AlmightyCushion

starbelgrade wrote: »

You can be British and be Irish in that you can claim dual nationality & hold a passport from Ireland & the UK (once you meet the required criteria).

Yeah, you're right. My brain was being stupid for a minute there.

Sindri

I'd have to agree with some of your sentiments Grenache. It is annoying, embarrasing and cringe worthy watching Tubridy asking people about their Irish heritage or about their minuscule links to Ireland.

EDIT

400th post!

bwatson

dlofnep wrote: »

"But at the end of the day, I’m Irish. I mean, I’ve got a British passport, but if you’re from Ireland, north or south, you’re Irish. And ‘British’ is. . . such a nondescript thing, isn't it?"

-Eddie Irvine

Apart from enlightening everyone to the fact that Eddie Irvine decided to identify as Irish, what is your point? That every person to have been born in Northern Ireland shares the same mindset as Eddie Irvine? Or that his opinions on what constitutes being British blows everyone else's out of the water because he can drive cars better than most?

El Weirdo

Bollocks to this. I'm pissed.

Tiocfaidh ár lá and all that jazz.

/trolling

El Weirdo

bwatson wrote: »

Or that his opinions on what constitutes being British blows everyone else's out of the water because he can drive cars better than most?

Erm.. He is called "Irve the Swerve"... Of course his opinion means more than anyone else. :rolleyes:

grenache

fullstop wrote: »

Sigh, I wish you would at least have got your facts straight before coming on spouting ****e. If you did you'd know that golf is an all-Ireland sport and the Clarke and especially McIlroy benefitted hugely from GUI (Golfing Union of IRELAND) funding and coaching programmed and were sent all around the world representing, you've guessed it, IRELAND at the union's expense. So STFU

If i had got my facts straight then you wouldn't have been able to tell me to STFU, and i know that would have disappointed you greatly.
They're both from the North, both representing Northern Ireland. Have you noticed the "NI" after their names....

gsxr1

Op has no clue.

N.Ireland is part of the island of Ireland. Border or no border.

The word Irish is not yours because you live in the Rep of Ireland you know.

Look
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ireland&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.916234,79.013672&vpsrc=0&hnear=Ireland&t=h&z=7

Seomra Mushie

OP, I'm fairly sure other countries get up to this too. I've heard both Jonathan Rhys-Meyers and Colin Farrell described as British in the British press. I've seen Canadian celebs referred to as American. I can see this happening everywhere.

mikemac1

Andy Murray is British

Oh he lost? He's Scottish so

charlemont

grenache wrote: »

If i had got my facts straight then you wouldn't have been able to tell me to STFU, and i know that would have disappointed you greatly.
They're both from the North, both representing Northern Ireland. Have you noticed the "NI" after their names....

I think the I stands for Ireland..:eek:

grenache

gsxr1 wrote: »

Op has no clue.

N.Ireland is part of the island of Ireland. Border or no border.

The word Irish is not yours because you live in the Rep of Ireland you know.

Look
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=ireland&hl=en&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=39.916234,79.013672&vpsrc=0&hnear=Ireland&t=h&z=7

really? Thanks for the insight, i had not noticed. :rolleyes:

That is not the point at issue here. How do you know that any of the more famous personalities from the north are happy at being described as Irish? They are not ours to claim.

mikeyboy

Sindri wrote: »

Wasn't his father Irish?

Yep, Leo Milligan from No 5 Holborn St. in Sligo and Spike's full name was, Terence Alan Patrick Sean Milligan. How Irish was that. I remember from one of his memoirs him saying that he was regularly beaten up at school because he used to claim descent from the High Kings of Ireland.

Mr Benevolent

Born in France, you're French. Born in Germany, you're German. ROI and NI are the same, separate countries sharing a border. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Trader1991

grenache wrote: »

really? Thanks for the insight, i had not noticed. :rolleyes:

That is not the point at issue here. How do you know that any of the more famous personalities from the north are happy at being described as Irish? They are not ours to claim.

but theres nothing to be unhappy about.. they are Irish. Weather your northern Irish or southern Irish your still Irish.

dlofnep

bwatson wrote: »

Apart from enlightening everyone to the fact that Eddie Irvine decided to identify as Irish, what is your point? That every person to have been born in Northern Ireland shares the same mindset as Eddie Irvine? Or that his opinions on what constitutes being British blows everyone else's out of the water because he can drive cars better than most?

The original post stated that we 'claimed' Eddie Irvine. I'm merely pointing out that many sports-people in the north identify as being Irish freely. Nobody has claimed anyone.

Sindri

Britishness is an odd concept that encompasses Sikhs, Pakistanis and Africans. It could be used to refer to all citizens of the Empire back in the day.

We're are all fairly similar culturally and genetically to all the peoples of the Western Isles, while these people may be British they can also be Irish. They self identify as British, we don't but we're not all that dissimilar. Sure we all watch the BBC.