GAA book methods

BlueIsland

Just reading G.a.a book "This is our year"- the one that caused all the contoversy with kevin cassidy been dropped off the Donegal football team. Anyway an interesting aspect came up in the first few pages. Basically put Jim McGuiness the Donegal manager was obsessed with Cassidy losing weight to be effective at half back. Thats not the interesting aspect. Bascially he told Cassidy to stop doing weights work and to run every day of the week for an hour every day. cassidy would come back and say right im running 9km a day and Mcguinness would say right come back when you are running 12km. Now I understand that if he does this he is defintely gonna loose weight. I was just shocked at I suppose the primitive nature of this approach. For a set up that claims to be borderline professional.

As a GAA player who struggles with weight would I be better of ditching weights programme for endless cardio? This is a tongue in cheek question I suppose but it might spark some kinda discussion!

Barry.Oglesby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lzpk5dMhVE4

J-Fit

BlueIsland wrote: »

Just reading G.a.a book "This is our year"- the one that caused all the contoversy with kevin cassidy been dropped off the Donegal football team. Anyway an interesting aspect came up in the first few pages. Basically put Jim McGuiness the Donegal manager was obsessed with Cassidy losing weight to be effective at half back. Thats not the interesting aspect. Bascially he told Cassidy to stop doing weights work and to run every day of the week for an hour every day. cassidy would come back and say right im running 9km a day and Mcguinness would say right come back when you are running 12km. Now I understand that if he does this he is defintely gonna loose weight. I was just shocked at I suppose the primitive nature of this approach. For a set up that claims to be borderline professional.

As a GAA player who struggles with weight would I be better of ditching weights programme for endless cardio? This is a tongue in cheek question I suppose but it might spark some kinda discussion!

To answer your question, no you would not be better off ditching the weights programme. You'd be better off decreasing your overall calorie intake and little else. That should take care of that.

Regarding the methods above, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest. In my experience many county panels claim to be borderline professional and in terms of commitment, they probably are but when it comes to so called professional methods, many are left wanting. I've seen and heard of some shocking things going on at intercounty level from a conditioning point of view, ranging from programmes that make no sense (poor structure etc.) to practices that are outright dangerous.

Many at the top are succeeding despite their bad conditioning practices, not because of them but if I was to pick out a team who are getting it right, that would be the Dublin footballers and hurlers. I haven't a clue who is overseeing their physical work but he or she is doing a great job.

Kevin Duffy

Three things strike me about it;

The team manager was directly responsible for the player's fitness, it seems, where successful teams at the top level generally have specialists.

It sounds like there was more to the conflict between them and no matter what milage the player claimed, the manager was gonna say "moar".

In the end, Donegal's horrible football was broken down by Dublin, so I wouldn't take their approach as a good example of anything.

Satanta

I've seen the current Donegal panel doing their weights program in my gym. They would probably all be better off ditching it. It's poor.

BlueIsland

Kevin Duffy wrote: »

Three things strike me about it;

The team manager was directly responsible for the player's fitness, it seems, where successful teams at the top level generally have specialists.

It sounds like there was more to the conflict between them and no matter what milage the player claimed, the manager was gonna say "moar".

In the end, Donegal's horrible football was broken down by Dublin, so I wouldn't take their approach as a good example of anything.

Donegal would have somebody. Rory Gallagher was doing the training. I presume they have a strength and conditioning coach too! I understand what you are saying about the manager saying MORE no matter what.thats not really crux of my issue with what happened. its that cassidy was told to leave the gym and hit the roads.no matter what the mileage was I dont think that was the best for the player!and before anybody says..it worked didnt it...kevin cassidy would prob succeed no matter what mcguiness advised cos he an excellent player. I just dont think it was best practice and was wondering what others think!I seen a two star all star nominee in my gym the other day struggling to get four chin ups....no lie!

Satanta

BlueIsland wrote: »

Donegal would have somebody. Rory Gallagher was doing the training. I presume they have a strength and conditioning coach too! I understand what you are saying about the manager saying MORE no matter what.thats not really crux of my issue with what happened. its that cassidy was told to leave the gym and hit the roads.no matter what the mileage was I dont think that was the best for the player!and before anybody says..it worked didnt it...kevin cassidy would prob succeed no matter what mcguiness advised cos he an excellent player. I just dont think it was best practice and was wondering what others think!I seen a two star all star nominee in my gym the other day struggling to get four chin ups....no lie!

They do have s&c coach.

Ok, so your issue with Cassidy being told to leave the gym... Kevin is naturally built like an ox. Out of the entire panel he is the least in need of additional mass. And he is also very strong in comparison to the others in the team. I've seen him and the others train and there would be no harm in him working on cardio instead of s&c. I'm not saying he is unfit... I am saying he is big enough and strong enough as it is. I don't think you can take this individual case from that book without knowing the full details and say whether or not it should be applied to you or anyone else.

BlueIsland

ah no Im not really using it as a template for my own training. It just got me thinking....do you go to gym to get strong for your sport or to put on mass. are the two things the same? like im sure there were lots of things cassidy could have been given in the gym tailored for him more benificial than running 9km a day!

J-Fit

BlueIsland wrote: »

ah no Im not really using it as a template for my own training. It just got me thinking....do you go to gym to get strong for your sport or to put on mass. are the two things the same? like im sure there were lots of things cassidy could have been given in the gym tailored for him more benificial than running 9km a day!

Correct. In any case, most players aren't trying to achieve mass gains anyway, they just think they are. What they need is strength, not necessarily size.

There's a high correlation between strength, sporting performance and injury status (positive). All players need it whether they think so or not and strength being a transient characteristic, it requires constant training.

Satanta

For sure. I'd get fed up just running and nothing else.

From chatting to some of them their goal was both. Get bigger and stronger. I have to say, they look bigger on telly than standing beside ya in the gym. Except Cassidy :-)

BlueIsland

ah yeh same as a lot of teams. fill out jerseys but are fairly small when you meet them in person. kieran mcgeeney has all the kildare lads looking like clones. skinny powerful legs , lean upper bodies. most be doing very effective training!

Barry.Oglesby

BlueIsland wrote: »

ah yeh same as a lot of teams. fill out jerseys but are fairly small when you meet them in person. kieran mcgeeney has all the kildare lads looking like clones. skinny powerful legs , lean upper bodies. most be doing very effective training!

OR...

At the highest level, a particular body type excels. It could just be that this is the makeup of the perfect GAA player. McGeeney hasn't altered the physical makeup of a panel of 30 in his 2.5 years in charge.

BlueIsland

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

BlueIsland wrote: »

ah yeh same as a lot of teams. fill out jerseys but are fairly small when you meet them in person. kieran mcgeeney has all the kildare lads looking like clones. skinny powerful legs , lean upper bodies. most be doing very effective training!

OR...

At the highest level, a particular body type excels. It could just be that this is the makeup of the perfect GAA player. McGeeney hasn't altered the physical makeup of a panel of 30 in his 2.5 years in charge.

He has given the lads a programme which if followed he believes, as you said, will make the perfect gaa player! Yes there are guys who will bd naturally like this! He is in his 4th year now also! I have seen these guys under different managers and playing underage all the way! They did not look like they do before his training, they do now! A guy comes into panel and within year of so he is like the others!

daveyc21

The fact that Sami a top level s&c coach (who we are lucky enough to have operating out of Ironside now) has been training the Dublin panel for the last two years culminating in them winning Sam is probably pretty strong evidence for proper conditioning methods in modern gaa.

Barry.Oglesby

So mcgeeney took 30 guys and stretched them to 6 foot tall?

They are bulkier than in the past but so are GAA players generally. I think what McGeeney has done is make a better football unit.

BlueIsland

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

So mcgeeney took 30 guys and stretched them to 6 foot tall?


They are bulkier than in the past but so are GAA players generally. I think what McGeeney has done is make a better football unit.

I don't know where I mentioned height? I said skinny but strong and powerful legs with lean upper bodies! He has made them a unit. Correct! Not denying that! All I'm saying is I think the template for his conditioning has all his guys shaping up the same!

J-Fit

BlueIsland wrote: »

I don't know where I mentioned height? I said skinny but strong and powerful legs with lean upper bodies! He has made them a unit. Correct! Not denying that! All I'm saying is I think the template for his conditioning has all his guys shaping up the same!

Looking at them, and looks can be deceiving, I would have said the same. It's partly looks that are making me judge the Dublin teams, though their results in both hurling and football show that they can walk the walk too.

Hammar

Kevin Cassidy put two Cavan players (whom i personally know are 100KG+ Benchers and 150KG+ squatters(good form and depth),and both around the 14 Stone mark), on their holes in Breffni last June.
He is an absolute beast of a man.
Jim McGuinness is a qualified Sports Scientist so it doesn't surprise me,that he has more of an input into Physical preparation than virtually any other Intercounty manager (Jason Ryan of Wexford being one exception,seeing as he is a graduate of Strawberry Hill after all)
Other than Micko getting the Wicklow lads to run 50 Laps of the field, a number of years ago,i haven't heard of any other counties that still go for the whole training concepts involving long runs.
Julie Davis/McGeeney with Kildare certainly don't.
They don't run more than 70/80 metres in a straight-line with lots of repetitions, and 90%+ of it done with the ball.alongside the Strongman conditioning circuits and personalized gym programmes.

TheZ

Kildare were dropping with cramp at the end of extra time against Donegal last year. Donegal were not.

Bigger in GAA is not always better - depends on the kind of game the manager wants to play and also the raw material of players he has available

There was a view that Dublin under the last management placed too much emphasis on S&C.

Training in GAA is also about mental toughness, team building and being able to "go to the well" in the game.

it's also about being able to put the ball over the bar

BrianBoru00

I think what Cassidy was told to do was to go running every day over course of about 2-3 weeks, not for the entire season.
Secondly, as for GAA players being bigger - they may be but they also wear smaller jersies...

I spoke to an O Neills rep who was responible for 5-6 counties and he said theonly XL jersey was for one of the goalies. most players wear medium regardless of height etc..

Burkatron

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

I think what Cassidy was told to do was to go running every day over course of about 2-3 weeks, not for the entire season.
Secondly, as for GAA players being bigger - they may be but they also wear smaller jersies...

I spoke to an O Neills rep who was responible for 5-6 counties and he said theonly XL jersey was for one of the goalies. most players wear medium regardless of height etc..

The smaller the t-shirt the bigger the man!! It's a well known illusion!!!!