A Gay Without A Scene.

DapperPete

Ahoy there,

Having been a proudly out and active gay for a few years now (I'm currently 20) I've grown incredibly tired of the club scene. The hideous music, the overtly campy atmosphere and the sorts of men one meets on "the scene" simply aren't my cup of tea.

I find myself rather lovelorn at this time in my life, and I'm curious to know if anybody else my age feels the same way. Is there a place for the young gays among us who simply enjoy a quiet drink, conversation, good movies, sports etc? Why are my contemporaries so desperate to fulfill stereotype.

I don't mean to sound scathing or cruel, I have several good friends who would be the first to dub themselves camp. It just really feels like I'm something of a square peg in a round whole when it comes meeting a guy.

Anyone else finding this problem?

Goodshape

Well I'm a few years older (28) but yeah, have always felt the same. Labeling a pub, club, gathering, whatever, as a Gay pub, club, gathering or whatever... and you usually know what to expect in terms of atmosphere and music.

Thing is though, straight people have their hook-up pubs and clubs too -- for the most part (imo) they're equally obnoxious. And if you want good atmosphere and good music, does it have to be "Gay"? Just go somewhere you actually like.

It's might not be as easy to "meet a guy" but it's not impossible . Gay folk all over the place these days! And if you do just want to pull, head to the George while the straights run off to Coppers for their last pint.

Annasopra

Some ideas here

www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76451164#post76451164

Killer Pigeon

I'm 20 as well, don't know the "scene" really, as I'm not out, but generally the idea Lady GaGa blaring at 200 decibels in some gay-club would makes my insides curdle.

The link Mango Salsa is good though. Getting involved in some activity (sports, volunteering, etc.) where the main objective isn't to get laid. Probably the best way to get to know someone.

Conor30

DapperPete - lots of gay guys feel the exact same and many who are older than you too. I've always felt like that to a certain extent. At least you're only 20 - you've a lot to look forward to yet. It's VERY difficult to meet someone compatible in the gaysphere, no matter what age you are.

Davyhal

I'm kinda the same... I'm 24, and while I am out, my mates (including my gay mates) refer to me as "The Bad Gay", simply because I listen to rock music, hate skinny jeans, follow sports, and until earlier this week didn't know what a Kardashian was... So the gay clubs do not really appeal to me either. Musically, I prefer late bars with live bands for my nights out, cos I am a rock fan more than anything else... To make matters worse, I am recently single, and it is very hard to bounce back if the thought of heading out on the scene is not the most appealing! Also, not being from Dublin, the alternatives are limited :-(

teddansonswig

gave up on the scene a long time ago! keep going out though, dublins fairly mixed in my opinion, your almost as likely to meet someone you like in any bar!

in saying that, I resorted to manhunt and met an amazing guy! i think the trick is not to ask what there into...

Killer Pigeon

Davyhal wrote: »

I'm kinda the same... I'm 24, and while I am out, my mates (including my gay mates) refer to me as "The Bad Gay", simply because I listen to rock music, hate skinny jeans, follow sports, and until earlier this week didn't know what a Kardashian was... So the gay clubs do not really appeal to me either. Musically, I prefer late bars with live bands for my nights out, cos I am a rock fan more than anything else... To make matters worse, I am recently single, and it is very hard to bounce back if the thought of heading out on the scene is not the most appealing! Also, not being from Dublin, the alternatives are limited :-(

As in Kim Kardashian?

Slang_Tang

Davyhal wrote: »

I'm kinda the same... I'm 24, and while I am out, my mates (including my gay mates) refer to me as "The Bad Gay", simply because I listen to rock music, hate skinny jeans, follow sports, and until earlier this week didn't know what a Kardashian was... So the gay clubs do not really appeal to me either. Musically, I prefer late bars with live bands for my nights out, cos I am a rock fan more than anything else... To make matters worse, I am recently single, and it is very hard to bounce back if the thought of heading out on the scene is not the most appealing! Also, not being from Dublin, the alternatives are limited :-(

I think that says much more about your mates' stereotypical view of gay people, to be honest.

Slang_Tang

OP, if you're loveless, you could try online dating. You'll see from this thread, the idea that gay men just love endless clubbing is a myth. Lots -- myself included -- prefer long-term intimacy.

If you use Gaydar, for example, and make it clear you are looking for dates and not just one-night stands, you'll be surprised by the reaction you'll get. Lots of guys are in the same position. Just be careful, be prepared to search for a little while, and it will work out for you. I met my ex-boyfriend there and we went out for two years.

Best of luck with it.

Barna77

Davyhal wrote: »

I'm kinda the same... I'm 24, and while I am out, my mates (including my gay mates) refer to me as "The Bad Gay", simply because I listen to rock music, hate skinny jeans, follow sports, and until earlier this week didn't know what a Kardashian was... So the gay clubs do not really appeal to me either. Musically, I prefer late bars with live bands for my nights out, cos I am a rock fan more than anything else... To make matters worse, I am recently single, and it is very hard to bounce back if the thought of heading out on the scene is not the most appealing! Also, not being from Dublin, the alternatives are limited :-(

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I'm 20 as well, don't know the "scene" really, as I'm not out, but generally the idea Lady GaGa blaring at 200 decibels in some gay-club would makes my insides curdle.

Hear, hear!

Kardashians... are they some race out of Star Wars?

Wearing skinny jeans should be a criminal offence.

And don't get me started on fecking Gaga... :mad:

Slang_Tang

I'm 25, and I don't go out on the scene in Dublin much. I've never felt the need to.

But I need to ask the guys above who also say they don't visit gay bars where they're getting their ideas of gays on the scene from? I mean Lady GaGa, Kardashians, etc. Are you just picking up on stereotypical views of gays from the media? How do you know if you haven't done the scene? Do some people think that a certain type of gay -- the Über-camp, Madonna-obsessed twink -- is much more prevalent than in reality?

I'm genuinely curious.

Killer Pigeon

Okay guys, let me get this straight. When you say "Kardashians" are you talking about Kim Kardashian, or something related to her, or are you talking about something completely different? If so, what?

Barna77

I don't have a clue who they are. I've heard talk about them on the radio (sound like the usual z-list parasites), and even Gervais joked about it.

I'm not googling it, I'm happy not knowing the truth

Slang_Tang

I was talking about the celebrities? Sorry, "celebrities". I'm pretty sure that's what everyone else was talking about. Unless I'm so out of touch that it's some sort of slang I'm not familiar with.

Slang_Tang

Barna77 wrote: »

I don't have a clue who they are. I've heard talk about them on the radio (sound like the usual z-list parasites), and even Gervais joked about it.

I'm not googling it, I'm happy not knowing the truth

OK, but if you don't know who they are -- like most gay guys on this thread don't seem to know who they are -- why do you think they're a stereotypically gay thing to like? That's what my question was earlier.

Where are these ideas coming from? They're just outdated stereotypes, no?

Davyhal

I was talking about the reality show, and Kim Kardashian etc. And it is not a stereotypical view of gays that I am referring to, I am referring to my actual gay mates, who are the ones who joke about these things with me! It's not offensive to anyone, and I do really love my gay friends, but they do fit far more into the stereotypes. I am not basing my view on the media etc, I am basing it on my friends and experiences. Also, my view of gay bars is also based on experiences... I go regularly as my gay mates drag me along, at least once a month... but the fact is i dont enjoy them, and especially dont like the music. In a rock bar etc, I would on the dancefloor all night. Whenever I go out on the scene, I always just end up out in the smoking area for the night

Barna77

Slang_Tang wrote: »

OK, but if you don't know who they are -- like most gay guys on this thread don't seem to know who they are -- why do you think they're a stereotypically gay thing to like? That's what my question was earlier.

Me? I never said that....

Slang_Tang

Barna77 wrote: »

Me? I never said that....

Sorry, I misread your message. I think the Kardashians have confused everyone.

Goodshape

Slang_Tang wrote: »

But I need to ask the guys above who also say they don't visit gay bars where they're getting their ideas of gays on the scene from?

Similar to Davyhal, from gay friends and from being out on the scene on occasion.

I'd have plenty of gay friends that don't fit the sterotypes as easily but certainly lots of them do. Obsessed with Lady Gaga, Britney Spears, Spice Girls, whatever rubbish is on E! or MTV. Love the guys and all but christ, there's only so much of that I can take.

Barna77

How could I forget about this! I have the pleasure of sharing with the ultimate fag hag. And we can't stand each other. I'm the straight gay.

But she already has her own...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK9VBxDlQOE

Actually two of them

There's a struggle for power in my house. But when you play the Game of Homos, you win or you die...
:pac:

Barna77

Well, I lost the battle.

Fúcking cúnts.

plein de force

i'm the same, 19 and have met nothing but stereotypes out on "the scene" but OP we're young and plenty of other ways to meet people. gay or straight i don't really think clubs/bars of any genre are the best way to meet people

floggg

plein de force wrote: »

i'm the same, 19 and have met nothing but stereotypes out on "the scene" but OP we're young and plenty of other ways to meet people. gay or straight i don't really think clubs/bars of any genre are the best way to meet people

At your age, your my likely to met stereotypes as the more "conformist" gays are most likely still in the closet/confused.

Give it a few years and you'll find the rest of us

Barna77

Last night I had an intensive course on Queens of the Fag Scene Cliques. Things I learnt:

- Bitchiness
- Shallowness
- Two facedness
- Twisted minds
- Rejection
- Any small talk that doesn't involve Lord Gaga or Beyonce is considered boring, rude and uncomfortable. So don't open your mouth at all.
- Disappointment

So basically if you don't fit in Fagland, you are left in a corner. In your own house.

Fag Squad 1.0


They can go and **** themselves.

Annasopra

Barna77 wrote: »

Last night I had an intensive course on Queens of the Fag Scene Cliques. Things I learnt:

- Bitchiness
- Shallowness
- Two facedness
- Twisted minds
- Rejection
- Any small talk that doesn't involve Lord Gaga or Beyonce is considered boring, rude and uncomfortable. So don't open your mouth at all.
- Disappointment

So basically if you don't fit in Fagland, you are left in a corner. In your own house.

Fag Squad 1.0


They can go and **** themselves.

ok fair enough you don't like the scene - really no need for such bitterness or insults

Slang_Tang

Barna77 wrote: »

- Any small talk that doesn't involve Lord Gaga or Beyonce is considered boring, rude and uncomfortable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk6cLlq7WVI

We all face rejection, man. Don't take it personally.

Barna77

mango salsa wrote: »

ok fair enough you don't like the scene - really no need for such bitterness or insults

If only you knew what's going on, fúcking unreal. As a I share with a gay guy and a fag hag, I have the scene at home.

I'm entitled to be bitter.

We all face rejection, man. Don't take it personally.

The actual word "rejection" was used last night.

Needless to say, the house hunting has just began

Barna77

double post....

Slang_Tang

Barna77 wrote: »

If only you knew what's going on, fúcking unreal.

Start a new thread and tell us? Maybe someone could give helpful advice.

jaffacakesyum

Mr.S wrote: »

The gay club "scene" is awful.

I've always thought its horrible how gay people feel the need to go too gay bars/clubs to have fun/meet people.

Your limiting yourself so much. I understand people who aren't out that feel more comfortable in gay clubs, but really once your out, you can pretty much go anywhere you want, don't feel the need to stick to gay clubs. Would choose a ""normal"" club over a gay one any day.

Well it's probably cos it's a LOT harder to meet gay/bi girls and guys outside of the scene. That's one of the reasons I go out on the gay club scene.

I much prefer ''normal'' clubs with better music, better crowd etc. but what can ya do. Sometimes you just need to meet other gay/bi people

Annasopra

Barna77 wrote: »

If only you knew what's going on, fúcking unreal. As a I share with a gay guy and a fag hag, I have the scene at home.

I'm entitled to be bitter.

The actual word "rejection" was used last night.

Needless to say, the house hunting has just began

You can be bitter if you want to be - but it's probably best if don't drag that bitterness into this thread.

Captain Graphite

I don't mind going to gay bards/clubs every so often but the kind of people who refuse to go anywhere else annoy me. I had an ex like that.

I have to admit though that I do like Lady Gaga; you don't have to be a flaming queen to appreciate that the Fame Monster is a damn good pop album.

plein de force

floggg wrote: »

At your age, your my likely to met stereotypes as the more "conformist" gays are most likely still in the closet/confused.

Give it a few years and you'll find the rest of us

no i know loads of gay people and they don't conform to the stereotype, just anytime i go out on the scene the stereotypes are ALL i see

jaffacakesyum

Mr.S wrote: »

True, its a lot easier, but I have met many a gay person in a "straight" club or bar.

Anytime i've been in a gay bar or club, 90% of the people are the gay "stereotype" which for me, is a huge turn off so unless my friends want to go, I won't go to a gay only place just to meet someone.

Yeah I get ya. It's more difficult though when, like me, you're not out. And maybe it's just that my gaydar sucks but I find it very difficult to spot gay/bi girls unless they're the stereotypical butch lesbian which isn't my type and even then, just cos they dress/act like that doesn't necessarily mean they're gay.

Wheras even off the scene it's considerably easier (for me anyway!) to spot a gay man.

*sigh* story of my life :pac:

To be honest, I actually thought I would hate the scene but I do have good nights out there and as I said, it's handy for meeting girls. I do agree though about the bad music and stereotypes and drama....I suppose the trick for me is to go there every now and again but still socialise in other ways too

Aurongroove

I popped into a quiet little (or so it seemed) gay venue in dublin a few days ago.
Panti bar. there were one or two people going around limp-wristing at anecdotes told by friends and they're were a few who were using dancing as a general mode of transportation about the venue, but there were also normal people who were having a pint after a long day.

I think you need to draw a line in the sand between being turned off by camp behavior and being completely intolerant of it. I dislike camp behavior, but I except that for a lot of people it's become an identity to identify with just like being goth, emo etc etc.
it's hard to argue on one hand the bother of having trouble fining and identifying other gay people in social contexts and on the other saying you dislike campness and gay venues.

If you're not in a gay venue there's no way of knowing if someone is gay unless they at least throw you a bone (pun intended, but in a knowing ironic way, I swear!) and alas camp behavior has become that bone for better or worse. You could always instead just go to a gay venue and only interact with the people behaving like normal humans. but you need to decide wither you find gay venues, or camp behavior the lesser evil. because without either then your basically just chatting up people blind, and then playing deal or no deal with their orientation.

baby and crumble

Aurongroove wrote: »

I popped into a quiet little (or so it seemed) gay venue in dublin a few days ago.
Panti bar. there were one or two people going around limp-wristing at anecdotes told by friends and they're were a few who were using dancing as a general mode of transportation about the venue, but there were also normal people who were having a pint after a long day.

That's pretty intolerant...

Aurongroove

I dont know wither you're carrying on the gag, or you took it up on a serious tone, but I've learnt not to take chances when it comes to detecting 'tone' especially as first impressions on a forum can be hard to alter.
The precise part you highlighted was entirely written in Ironic parody having lurked and read similar themes.

Slang_Tang

baby and crumble wrote: »

That's pretty intolerant...

I think large chunks of this thread have taken one form of behaviour (campness), enlarged it, and applied it liberally to whole sections of people.

Camp (and even drag) is a performance, not part of someone's personality. It's possible some people are doing it to make others uncomfortable, just for the hell of it (and they're succeeding, by the looks of this thread).

Slang_Tang

Aurongroove wrote: »

I dont know wither you're carrying on the gag, or you took it up on a serious tone, but I've learnt not to take chances when it comes to detecting 'tone' especially as first impressions on a forum can be hard to alter.
The precise part you highlighted was entirely written in Ironic parody having lurked and read similar themes.

What about the behaving like normal human beings line? That was even worse, and I suspect not at all ironic.

Goodshape

Slang_Tang wrote: »

Camp (and even drag) is a performance.

I know some camp guys who would find that point of view hugely insulting.

But you'd be walking on egg-shells trying not insult anyone around here. I think Aurongroove got his points across just fine.

Slang_Tang

Goodshape wrote: »

I know some camp guys who would find that point of view hugely insulting.

But you'd be walking on egg-shells trying not insult anyone around here. I think Aurongroove got his points across just fine.

You can get your point across without implicitly labelling people as freaks (the opposite of 'normal human beings').

Barna77

Goodshape wrote: »

But you'd be walking on egg-shells trying not insult anyone around here. I think Aurongroove got his points across just fine.

Agreed.

Sometimes it feels like you have to chose the words very very carefully, but still someone would feel instulted.

Been there, done that.

Goodshape

Slang_Tang wrote: »

You can get your point across without implicitly labelling people as freaks (the opposite of 'normal human beings').

I suspect there was some irony in that statement. And I suspect you knew what he meant, too. It's entirely the topic of this thread.

Slang_Tang

Goodshape wrote: »

I suspect there was some irony in that statement. And I suspect you knew what he meant, too. It's entirely the topic of this thread.

Irony again. Can we just dismiss everything as irony, then? Did we enter a parallel universe where everything is an Alanis Morissette song?

Goodshape

Slang_Tang wrote: »

Irony again. Can we just dismiss everything as irony, then?

Well, just as long as we don't descend into a debate about what actually constitutes irony. Because most of this probably doesn't and that debate would be even less fun than this one.

Did we enter a parallel universe where everything is an Alanis Morissette song?

Oh yeah, sure we did. I toootaallly agree with you.

jaffacakesyum

Goodshape wrote: »

Oh yeah, sure we did. I toootaallly agree with you.

Ah now that's sarcasm not irony :P

Just thought I'd butt in here :pac:

Oh and I know this is off topic but I was looking in the Know Your Quiltbags thread and you look so like Fyfe Dangerfield!!!

Goodshape

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Ah now that's sarcasm not irony :P

You're sarcasm!!

Oh and I know this is off topic but I was looking in the Know Your Quiltbags thread and you look so like Fyfe Dangerfield!!!

First I've heard of Fyfe Dangerfield, but seems a grand looking guy. I'll allow it :P

baby and crumble

To draaaaaaaaag the thread back a little my point when I said "that's pretty intolerant" was that to me, it didn't sound like irony. It sounded really bitchy, and judgemental, thinly veiled in humour. And if people have such a big problem with 'the scene' then start your own. If all the people who came onto this board moaning about how they hate all the camp guys, and all the stone butch lesbians and how they give us all a bad name and blah blah blah went off and actually looked, there are plenty of gay spaces where they, as 'normal' people could go off and have a super fun time.

I realise that this is going to sound harsh, but really. I don't see why straight people coming in here going "jaysis, the limp wrists on them lads, wha'?" would get an infraction for intolerant behaviour and yet intolerant gay folks can come in, do the same and go "oh, come on, I was only messing!! Lighten up, peeps!!!"?

Doesn't make much sense to me. And I'll freely admit that a few years ago I held the same opinions as many of you- but I have come to see that the world is made up of lots of different people, different scenes, and different ways of behaving. You don't like one scene? Find another, it does exist. I just never knew there were so many lesbians who liked visiting art galleries for example. Luckily for me I found them, so I don't have to go somewhere I don't enjoy just to bitch about it the next day.

/rant.

floggg

baby and crumble wrote: »

To draaaaaaaaag the thread back a little my point when I said "that's pretty intolerant" was that to me, it didn't sound like irony. It sounded really bitchy, and judgemental, thinly veiled in humour. And if people have such a big problem with 'the scene' then start your own. If all the people who came onto this board moaning about how they hate all the camp guys, and all the stone butch lesbians and how they give us all a bad name and blah blah blah went off and actually looked, there are plenty of gay spaces where they, as 'normal' people could go off and have a super fun time.

I realise that this is going to sound harsh, but really. I don't see why straight people coming in here going "jaysis, the limp wrists on them lads, wha'?" would get an infraction for intolerant behaviour and yet intolerant gay folks can come in, do the same and go "oh, come on, I was only messing!! Lighten up, peeps!!!"?

Doesn't make much sense to me. And I'll freely admit that a few years ago I held the same opinions as many of you- but I have come to see that the world is made up of lots of different people, different scenes, and different ways of behaving. You don't like one scene? Find another, it does exist. I just never knew there were so many lesbians who liked visiting art galleries for example. Luckily for me I found them, so I don't have to go somewhere I don't enjoy just to bitch about it the next day.

/rant.

I agree. The scene is what you make it. I'd like to think I'm a regular enough guy, not overtly camp and not a jock. I used to think I'd hate "the scene" and all on it, but once I gave it a chance I actually really enjoy it.

It's all about what you make of it. I've gone out alone or in a group and always found decent sound regular people to talk to.

There might be a few camp guys but there are plenty of non camp guys too. And even the "camp" guys are generally sound lads.

I know myself at times I uses to be too judgmental to give people a chance and believed all the cliches. But once I gave people a fair chance and took them as they came I found that the scene contains all sorts.

Now all that said I'm not on it that long and don't have a wide circle of gay friends, so I don't want to act like I'm an expert. But in my experience so far there's been something for everybody.

Aurongroove

I had a big long post written out but I've just deleted it.

I kinda don't care? the tone of my post was clearly misunderstood. Why would someone arguing against intolerance of camp behavior and gay venues hold offensive views on same?
No, It could only have been humour and rhetoric

It just doesn't make sense otherwise. I bet half the people who read my post didn't even get the point of it, it certainly hasn't been replied to at least.
camp behavior has viable social purpose, gay venues have a viable social purpose. you need if not both, then at least one and I defy anyone to argue otherwise.