Clownfish

ShaShaBear

So, I've been doing a lot of thinking since my three mutant goldfish died two years ago at 11 years of age (when I say mutant, I don't think they were generic goldfish, more likely koi, since they grew bigger every time we extended the tank). I've always enjoyed keeping fish and would really like to have another life-time aquatic friend. I'm really hung up on Clownfish. I saw two in my local Pet Centre today and completely fell in love. And the mister has agreed if I can research it and am sure I can manage, I can have two for Valentine's Day.

So, the man in the pet shop told me the set-up for a clownfish is very complicated, involving a lot of salt. He seemed reluctant to explain fully how to have a proper home for them, he just said it's a lot of hassle. Anyone got any experience with caring for them? Like how big a tank should be for two at most, what kind of in-tank stimulation they like, food and treatments, how much their upkeep is?

Thanks

Roselm

I don't know anything about clowns but this website

http://www.marineaquariumsa.com

(based in south africa) has a wealth of information about marine fish of all sorts. Just search for clownfish and it should throw up a load of threads.
Even if you don't get the information you were originally searching for I find I invariably learn something I hadn't even thought of before! So in that way potentially very useful for you as you need general research.

Hope that helps

ShaShaBear

Thanks It's hard to know where to begin, but I want to make sure I can maintain the tank before I even think about caring for the fish. That site has a lot of good info

Sleepy

A marine tank is a fairly major investment, converting your existing tank isn't generally a simple matter.

As far as I'm aware, the cheapest way into keeping clowns would be the following package from Seahorse: http://www.seahorseaquariums.com/store/product/3242/Nemo-Starter-Pack/

Since the shop is actually owned and run by a marine biologist, it's one place you'r almost guaranteed to get good advice too.

Silverfish

Seconding what Sleepy said, a trip to there would definitely see you right.

Marine is not as much hassle as it used to be, in the days before all the fancy accessories, so it's definitely doable. Worth a trip there to see what you need to get.

ShaShaBear

Nemo Starter Kit, I gotta say that's pretty cute.

Cerocco

OP that starter tank is a beauty. I got one 3 years ago but with a view to getting seahorses. In the starter 90L tank I had 2 clown fish, 2 seahorses and a couple other fish, hermit crabs, shrimp. I go to seahorse Aquariums alot for my stock and I still have the 2 clown fish I started off with as well as the seahorses. In my opinion well worth the investment but before you get the tank do a little research. As they are quite different to look after. You have to buy the water for the marine tank, get the water tested for the different chemicals nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, salinity etc. It sounds complicated but its not really. I now have a 200L tank which is a real beauty, everyone comments on it when they come to the house. Thats the big danger when you start where do you stop If you need advise feel free to PM me, ive been at it 3 years but still learning

ShaShaBear

I was looking at a 28L nano-tank with a light and powerfilter included, as I was planning on sticking to starting with a pair of clownfish. I'm in a flat at the minute, so I don't really have the room for anything big, but I was told 4 gallons to an inch of fish would be plenty. Ive managed to source out and price some live rocks, a water heater, some aragonite gravel, sea salt and a bottle of de-chlorinator. I think I'd panic if I started off with all of those fishies, considering I'm moving up from my extra-durable monster goldfishies.

I'm quite happy I can afford to keep them happy, keeping them in food, proper water etc. I just want to figure out exactly what should be in this tank (if it is any good for them) and how long it should be in there for, before I nab the two little babies in my local pet shop XD

Cerocco

OK best bit of advise you are gonna get, when you put everything in your tank, Live sand, live rock, water. you have to leave the tank to cycle first. This can take up to 6 weeks, and before you put any fish in the tank get your water tested. Most aquarium shops will test the water for you for free if you bring a sample. Cuz if your parameters arent right its like getting good money and flushing it down the toilet. Clowns are bout €20-25 each, and if the water isn't right they will bite the big one more or less within a day or two

ShaShaBear

All the evidence seems to suggest they are rather temperamental little buggers!
The only other issue I think Im going to come up against is sourcing out the fishies. The petshop down the road has two (they're about an inch long) and he told me he would sell them out of the tank if I have the right set up, but I'm a bit apprehensive about age. I read the average lifespan is 5 years, and I know the growth of most fishies is dependant on space and not age, so is there any way I could guesstimate how old these guys are? The guy at the shop didn't really seem to want to volunteer information and I don't really want to come home with €50 of fish about to kick the bucket!

Cerocco

Just remember you will have at least a 4-6 week wait B 4 your tank is ready. I get all my stock from Kealan in Seahorse aquariums and he breeds his own clown fish so he can tell you exactly how old his are. I've used different suppliers over the last 3 years and he has the best stock in my opinion (just want to say I have no affiliation with seahorse aquariums) I've just find them very helpful and their stock is excellent.

ShaShaBear

Only issue I would have there is transport, I don't know how well they would fare in a bag on a bus for an hour. But I would prefer to get them off a breeder, they're always more serious about their fishies!

Cerocco

Seahorse aq deliver. He recently started giving out bags free, that keep the fish warm while they are being transported. A bit like the freezer bags for your shopping, but way better quality. I got one free the last time I called. Best thing to do is phone and ask for Kealan. He is a dead nice guy and will sort ya out. Let us know how you get on.

On a side not my 2 clown fish are called winkey and wonkey ( cuz one of his white stripes doesn't go all the way around). )

ShaShaBear

Delivering the fishies? Sounds odd!
I have my heart set on Sideshow Mel and Bob!

Cerocco

Look up the seahorse aq website, they deliver. I don't know the logistics involved. Best of luck with it

fred funk }{

ShaShaBear wrote: »

Delivering the fishies? Sounds odd!
I have my heart set on Sideshow Mel and Bob!

It's done successfully all over the world and I assume Seahorse know how to do it because they apply the highest of standards to everything else they do.

I think they put in heat packs into the Styrofoam boxes and extra oxygen into the fish bags. Tropical fish are transported all over the world using those methods. I don't live to far away from them but if I lived further away I wouldn't hesitate to order fish online.

ShaShaBear

That's amazing, I'll definitely get the fishies from them so! Thanks guys!

vibe666

i'm pretty sure seahorse have an 'arrive alive' guarantee anyway, so it's perfectly safe to order online from them. keelan really knows his stuff and cares a lot about his stock and his reputation and i doubt very much that he'd risk either of them just to make a quick buck.

i've dealt with them quite a lot of the last few months and have both freshwater and marine supplies from them inc. converting a freshwater 55L tank to marine as home for 2 clowns and soon a couple of seahorses and a shrimp or two as well.

so far, the clowns have been no trouble at all, and i've had them almost a month now. i've already got some kind of red mushroom thing growning quite well on the live rock and 2 anemone type things as well as a lot of moss and whathaveyou. i've also seen a couple of little yokes slithering across the glass which i think came in the live sand, but they are too small at the minute to see what they actually are.

i was actually meant to go back in to collect the seahorses in the new year once the clowns had taken care of the ammonia spike, but our baby has been sick and i haven't had a chance to get there yet.

Sleepy

vibe666, any chance you could give us details of what was involved in the conversion of the 55l tank. Presume there was live rock, live sand and a skimmer involved? Have a 54l tank upstairs that's currently home to a pearl ranchu but he's going to need a larger home in the not too distant future!

vibe666

live rock, lots of live sand and salt water is pretty much the only difference, although i did get a nice big external filter from seahorse which is about 1/3rd the size of the tank itself which is apparently good for anything up to a 160L tank.

when i started before xmas, i had actually meant to invest a lot more time and effort into the whole thing, but we've just spent the last week living in temple street children's hospital with our baby in the ICU, so pretty much everything that wasn't directly related to the baby has been on the back burner since he got sick.

he's out and we're all home now though, so once the bank balance has made as much of a recovery as the baby has, i'll get back on track with the marine tank, but for now the two clowns are ticking over nicely.

ShaShaBear

Looks as though the mister wants to get me the Nemo kit, but I'm trying to talk him down a bit! Also, I see that Seahorse got new baby seahorses, absolutely adorable :P

vibe666

the little yellow ones?

i was supposed to pick up two in the new year, but obviously my circumstances kinda changed a bit since then.

keelan showed me the breeding tanks upstairs, pretty amazing stuff.

ShaShaBear

I've always kept small pets, fish, hamsters, rabbits. It's only now that I've become interested in tropical fish, they're so interesting! Yeah Vibe, I was looking at their Facebook page, amazing little things

Cerocco

vibe666 wrote: »

i'm pretty sure seahorse have an 'arrive alive' guarantee anyway, so it's perfectly safe to order online from them. keelan really knows his stuff and cares a lot about his stock and his reputation and i doubt very much that he'd risk either of them just to make a quick buck.

i've dealt with them quite a lot of the last few months and have both freshwater and marine supplies from them inc. converting a freshwater 55L tank to marine as home for 2 clowns and soon a couple of seahorses and a shrimp or two as well.

so far, the clowns have been no trouble at all, and i've had them almost a month now. i've already got some kind of red mushroom thing growning quite well on the live rock and 2 anemone type things as well as a lot of moss and whathaveyou. i've also seen a couple of little yokes slithering across the glass which i think came in the live sand, but they are too small at the minute to see what they actually are.

i was actually meant to go back in to collect the seahorses in the new year once the clowns had taken care of the ammonia spike, but our baby has been sick and i haven't had a chance to get there yet.

Check out what the anemone type things are. I recently lost 3 seahorses to Aptaisia anemone growing on my live rock. It stung them and killed them so better check. I thought they were harmless enough untill I lost my 3 seahorses to it. ( they just appeared on the rock and in my naiveity I thought they were a new coral growth) The red growth on your rock is a really good sign of water quality, its a good algae that grows when the water levels are right

vibe666

googling for pictures of that anemone, it looks like the ones i have might actually be the one you are talking about.

what do you think?



it's only about the same size as my thumbnail at the moment and the other one is less than half that size.

here's the mushroom thing as well, again with the head about the size of my thumbnail.



and here's the clowns.

Cerocco

Yep pic 1 is defo an aptaisia, get yourself a bottle of aptaisiax and zapp the bugger. They spread like wildfire sending stinging spores into the water. Also no harm getting a peppermint shrimp they eat the small aptaisia. I had 2 ( that I could see) about and inch from base to top. They killed my seahorses, Kealan said that the adult must have swam past and got stung and the juveniles got stung by the stingers in the water. I wish I could post pics ( I've tried but failed before) then I could show you guys my tank

Cerocco

Oh ment to say if you go onto YouTube and type aptaisia you can see vids of them being zapped, it's quite helpful

ShaShaBear

Nemos!

vibe666

peppermint shrimp sounds like a good (and natural) plan, so i've mailed seahorse to see if i can order some online as i'm not really in a position to be driving out there at the minute with the baby so sick.

fingers crossed.

does anyone know how long it will take after they are dead and gone before the water will be safe (i.e. no more stingers in it) for the seahorses?

also, i'm assuming the mushroom thing isn't a stone cold killer as well?

Sleepy

vibe666, do you mind me asking you roughly how much it cost to convert the 55l tank into a marine setup?

vibe666

off the top of my head (and looking at my seahorse discount stamps ) €150 for live sand, live rock sand water to start with and get the tank cycling, using the existing light, filter and heater.

then another €100 for the external filter, which might not have been 100% necessary, but i'd rather overdo it than underdo it.

then, so far it was €50 for the two clowns i think.

i'd asked keelan about a skimmer and he said it was desirable for an optimum set up, but not 100% essential in a smaller tank and then showed me some of their smaller marine tanks which don't have skimmers.

also, i was buying freshwater supplies for my community tank at the same time, so these number might not be 100% correct, but should be ballpark figures unless i've totally forgotten something.

fungun

hmmm, ive got a cichlid tank and a planted tank but am awful tempted by that nemo tank as a starter....then once its up and running i could....

actually as i write this, i just realise my wife would kill me

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh

vibe666

fungun wrote: »

hmmm, ive got a cichlid tank and a planted tank but am awful tempted by that nemo tank as a starter....then once its up and running i could....

actually as i write this, i just realise my wife would kill me

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh

better to ask for forgiveness than permission. :pac:

Cerocco

vibe666 wrote: »

peppermint shrimp sounds like a good (and natural) plan, so i've mailed seahorse to see if i can order some online as i'm not really in a position to be driving out there at the minute with the baby so sick.

fingers crossed.

does anyone know how long it will take after they are dead and gone before the water will be safe (i.e. no more stingers in it) for the seahorses?

also, i'm assuming the mushroom thing isn't a stone cold killer as well?

Well I zapped the aptaisia last weekend and put 2 new seahorses in the tank on Friday. I did a water change. And they are happy enough.

To be honest and you might want to do some research to prove me wrong but with the size of the aptaisia you may need to zap it. Call Kealan and have a quick chat or e-mail seahorse and ask the question. I have heard people use lemon juice but when I spoke with Kealan he kinda dismissed the idea. All I know for sure is they are a real pest in the tank and difficult to get rid of. I'm still spying the odd one but zap it straight away. FYI peppermint shrimp in SA €15

vibe666

thanks Cerocco, i mailed them earlier so hopefully they will come back with the easiest solution soon.

Sleepy

I really hadn't realised you could run a marine tank without a skimmer... Thought you didn't need a filter for a marine setup due to the live sand/coral acting as one too!

I think I'd be in the same boat as yourself though fungun, have a wedding to pay for next year but if a marine setup was to appear in our house in the meantime, it might get cancelled!

vibe666

Sleepy wrote: »

I really hadn't realised you could run a marine tank without a skimmer... Thought you didn't need a filter for a marine setup due to the live sand/coral acting as one too!

I think I'd be in the same boat as yourself though fungun, have a wedding to pay for next year but if a marine setup was to appear in our house in the meantime, it might get cancelled!

yeah, i didn't know you could run one without a skimmer either.

one thing they did say was that once the tank was established, that i could swap out the filter media that came with the external filter and then fill it with crushed live rock and effectively have it as a small sump.

Sleepy

I'm getting bad ideas now...

The price of a wedding would buy a beautiful marine set-up! Then again, anyone know if Seahorse do Wedding Lists?

fungun

my son said to me over the weekend that when he is rich he would get me a tank the size of a swimming pool so that i could swim with my fish.

My wife was like 'thats ridiculous, they dont come that big'.....i was like 'that would be.....amazing' :cool:


well sleepy, if you invite people from here they might get you fishie presents :P

Sleepy

To Mrs Fungun: oh yes they do!

Silverfish

Is that all to convert to marine?

I've a 110L here that's just got 30 apple snails in it. Might be moving those guys on fairly shortly. Though it's on Mr Silverfish's end of the sofa so I can't have lovely fire shrimp

I'm just going to ask for SHA vouchers instead of wedding presents. We're currently okay for kettles and toasters anyway.

vibe666

pretty much.

of course you can go the whole hog with sumps and skimmers and all the other high tech gubbins, but if you have a look around seahorse, they have quite a few smaller marine tanks (and one or two bigger ones) with nothing much more complicated than you'd find in a regular tropical tank keeping things ticking over nicely.

Cookie_Monster

Silverfish wrote: »

Is that all to convert to marine?

I've a 110L here that's just got 30 apple snails in it. Might be moving those guys on fairly shortly. Though it's on Mr Silverfish's end of the sofa so I can't have lovely fire shrimp
.

To go slightly OT, what are apple snails like to keep? what they eat, do they harm plants etc?

I have hankerings to pick up a new tank down here...

vibe666

just noticed that my anemone has uprooted himself and moved about 2 inches, which was somewhat of a surprise since i didn't know they could move at all.

i also noticed when i turned the light on this morning to feed the clowns that i also seem to have some kind of small black slug/cucumber type thing slithering around in there on the rocks, although he soon slipped out of view when the light came on.

i guess they really do mean it when they call it 'live' sand! :pac:

who knows what else will appear over time.

fungun

is it a worry though, if some of that stuff can actually kill your fish..... :S

hmmm, i feel like a kid at the mo, i want, i want, i want!!!

Silverfish

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

To go slightly OT, what are apple snails like to keep? what they eat, do they harm plants etc?

I have hankerings to pick up a new tank down here...

Kinda pointless. Just like big roaming blobs of snot. Breed like mad, these are babies that I kept from one batch. There's a few types of apple snails, some eat plants and some don't, mine leave the plants alone but I've heard of people having apple snails munch through all theirs. I've been feeding these guys lettuce, flake food, algae wafers and pellets.

The coloured ones are nice to look at though.

vibe666

but what do they taste like? :pac:

Silverfish

vibe666 wrote: »

but what do they taste like? :pac:

Not too bad, actually.

vibe666

there you go, problem solved!

kylith

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

To go slightly OT, what are apple snails like to keep? what they eat, do they harm plants etc?

I have hankerings to pick up a new tank down here...

I find mine fascinating to watch. So far it hasn't eaten any of my plants, including the cabomba. He's cleaned the glass beautifully and is very fond of sinking algae pellets. I only got one, so I won't have to deal with being overrun.

fungun

do the snails eat the really poxy green spots that you really need to scrub to get off, they are the ones i hate!

although the curved front on my vision450 looks great, it means those magnet cleaners are even crappier