WTF UCD??

Einhard

I studied in UCD from 2000-6, and generally had a a very favourable opinion of the place.

The last year or so of my studies coincided with the election of Hugh Brady as president, and there was much talk of UCD's impending transformation into a centre of excellence in higher education, and how a chill wind would soon blow through the outdated, ineffectual ways of doing things. I returned last September for a one year postgrad and the educational service offered by the college has, if anything, gone down.

Several aspects of the past week serve to illustrate this-

The course I'm in recommenced last Monday. Most of the class have essays, projects and assignments due over the next few weeks. Judging from the people around campus, we're not the only course back early. And yet, despite all this, and despite the large sums I and others are paying to UCD, the library shut up shop every night at 6pm. This really isn't good enough for a college which claims to aspire to the acme of educational standards. In order to work on the assignments due, I had to use Dublin City libraries services. Surely if these libraries can stay open until 8pm, then UCD library can do so also?

We started a number of new modules this semester, and one of our new lecturers had given a similar course in Trinity last term. He had used a core textbook for the course, with which Trinity library had been well-stocked. He asked that UCD purchase a few copies, and was told that there was a moratorium on the purchase of all new books. He seemed slightly surprised by this, and I have to say i was somewhat embarassed. Books are the repositories and conduits of knowledge. How on earth then, can an institution with pretenstions to premier status amongst the world's universities, enact a policy which so crudely impacts on the availibility of such knowledge?

All was not lost however. Our lecturer announced that he'd be leaving relevant material in the student copy centre, thus getting around the problem. Until someone pointed out that the copy centre has been closed. I'm not exaggerating when I say that he was pretty staggered at this. The only solution that presented itself was to suggest we muddle through as best we can, and if things don't work out, he'd change the course mid-stream.

Does anyone else find this an appalling state of affairs? I understand the need for cutbacks and efficencies, and realise there has to be reductions across all departments. But to prohibit the purchase of books, and then dismantle the one mechanism which might have alleviated the problems caused by that, is a shocking abandonment by UCD of its responsibilities to its students.

Chet T16

UCD has no money, they have no money, there is no money. Its been that way for a while but it really seems to be going to **** in the last year

Rothmans

Einhard wrote: »

He asked that UCD purchase a few copies, and was told that there was a moratorium on the purchase of all new books.

Well now that answers alot of questions. I have often found that when a lecturer recommends a book they simply don't have it. For example, for criminological theory this year, the main recommended text, by an author called Lilly iirc, the library only had three copies, one in long loan and two in SLC. Not only that, but the latest edition they had was 1995, the recommended one was the 2010 edition, which had a hell of a lot more material in it.
They didn't even have one up to date copy that could be used for photocopying. This was for a class of 100+ people.
Most people just ended up using the internet to study, which is a lot more tedious than using a text book imo.

stop

Irish government funded institution in lack of funds shocker..

HavingCrack

It all comes down to money, money, money, something UCD does not have. There's no easy way around this at the moment but the sheer mismanagment of the place doesn't help matters either.

Anyone I know who attended Trinity said there was no comparison in lecturing or research standards. I can't say this personally as I haven't gone to Trinity (yet anyway ) but it seems to be a recurring feature.

I'll give an example from my own department-geography. We don't even have labs which means no chemical analysis can be undertaken. We do no fieldwork whatsoever, all the degree consists of is lectures. Clearly finances play a part but somewhere a decision was made not to provide geography in UCD with lab facilites. Furthermore there has been no attempt to link up with the science departments to 'borrow' labs, if this is even possible.

I've heard of similar experiences in Computer Science and the History departments also.

Then look at the sheer 'annoyingness' of UCD-tearing up the athletics track, closing the Trap for the 'elite sports academy' (normal students clearly are of zero concern) , allocating huge wages to senior academics and not allocating any to purchasing new books.

RandolphEsq

Why not reduce the pay of lecturers? Or cut back on sports scholarships?

KatCookie

Probably a good time to post this, a Facebook page that hopes to reinstate the Copy Print Centre and force UCD SU to publish their accounts which they say has forced them to lay off the staff of Copy Print.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-UCD-SU-Staff-and-Services/282917575088141

Fad

KatCookie wrote: »

Probably a good time to post this, a Facebook page that hopes to reinstate the Copy Print Centre and force UCD SU to publish their accounts which they say has forced them to lay off the staff of Copy Print.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-UCD-SU-Staff-and-Services/282917575088141

As unfair as I think it is for the staff there, I see no value in that print centre.... It serves a minority of students, and there are other places to print stuff on campus

Sl!mCharles

Is this the one in the tunnel between the library and Newman building? Has it closed down? :O

HavingCrack

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Why not reduce the pay of lecturers? Or cut back on sports scholarships?

The sports scholarships are a massive waste of UCD funds-utterly self-serving and of little benefit to the university as far as I can see. It's not comparable to the US sports scholarship system at all.

Killer Pigeon

Ugh! Don't get me started. I've been 2.5 years here and I can already point out a billion trillion things that should and could easily be improved. I'm convinced now that about 60-80% of lecturers/staff/administration in UCD don't give a tuppenny damn about students or the grand enlightenment ideal of imparting knowledge upon the ignorant masses. Universities nowadays are just facades for corporate funded state propaganda and money making.

I blame the modern Frankenstein-esque blend of socialism and corporatism, which so pervades Ireland and the West in general, that encourages a culture of descent in the quality of education.

Robdude

As far as I'm concerned UCD is a crap-hole. Sorry if that offends anyone.

My wife is a student in a very expensive international program. We're paying, roughly, 40k euro per year, and for this price, she regularly has classes where professors simply don't show up. They can't even be bothered to cancel class in advance, the students show up, and wait, and leave.

Many of the professors consider lecturing a waste of their time. They are unprepared, don't make time for students, and like I said above, often don't show up to class. The whole program is grossly unorganized.

They might be brilliant people, they might be great researchers, but they should not be professors, because they are terrible. Before coming here, we were told the program was great and it is accredited and all. But I'm not sure how it maintains it's accreditation. I'd never recommend anyone to attend. My wife and I have both attended other universities in the United States that are considered 'no name' state schools; but all four of them were drastically better than UCD - despite being much cheaper.

Sadly, transferring is very difficult (we've looked into it) and we've already relocated/I've gotten a job in Ireland; so our best option is going to be to continue overpaying for a subpar education for the next three years or so.

Killer Pigeon

Robdude wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned UCD is a crap-hole. Sorry if that offends anyone.

Why would anyone be offended by called UCD a crap-hole? The only people who'd be offended at that are first years who're in some magical fairy-tale wonderland, secretly bitter about the fact that they didn't get into Trinity College, and now see defending UCD as defending their very character and person.

UCD is a joke, plain and simple.

Pandoras Twist

I did my undergrad in UCD 2008-2011 and I'm currently doing my masters in smurfit.

I really don't see the issues you talk about. Nearly all of my lecturers (I did commerce) were good lecturers and absolutely all of them were helpful. I would be the type to go up after class and ask questions or send emails with queries.

At exam time the library opens until 11/12 at night, there are also other facilities by the SU to study until something like 3 am.

I have friends in trinity and when we've been comparing facilities and lecturers theirs haven't come across any better

Killer Pigeon

Pandoras Twist wrote: »

I did my undergrad in UCD 2008-2011 and I'm currently doing my masters in smurfit.

I really don't see the issues you talk about. Nearly all of my lecturers (I did commerce) were good lecturers and absolutely all of them were helpful. I would be the type to go up after class and ask questions or send emails with queries.

At exam time the library opens until 11/12 at night, there are also other facilities by the SU to study until something like 3 am.

I have friends in trinity and when we've been comparing facilities and lecturers theirs haven't come across any better

Well I mean that's all those lecturers in UCD know about; money-making. Fine people to teach commerce, money-making and that. If we had less businessmen in education we'd be living an Aristotelian dream.

beardedmaster

I fully agree with Twisty (... if that's an ok name)... I've only been here a year and a half, and the lecturers are great at explaining things and VERY approachable.

It all depends on what your programme/course is. I have only ever had one lecturer not show up/lecture cancelled.. because she had a death in the family..

Of course the place has its faults, and some lecturers are overpaid, and a hat of money is given to the Elite Sport Scholarships/Ad Astra Academy.. but having a tirade about UCD being so bad and not acknowledging any of its' merits isn't really needed.
Besides, we already have a thread for that - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056403284

Einhard

stop wrote: »

Irish government funded institution in lack of funds shocker..

It's not so much that there are cutbacks that's the problem, but rather the areas targeted for cutbacks. It's not really asking much that a centre supposedly dedicated to the dissemination of knowledge continue to purchase books.

Pandoras Twist wrote: »

I did my undergrad in UCD 2008-2011 and I'm currently doing my masters in smurfit.

I really don't see the issues you talk about. Nearly all of my lecturers (I did commerce) were good lecturers and absolutely all of them were helpful. I would be the type to go up after class and ask questions or send emails with queries.

At exam time the library opens until 11/12 at night, there are also other facilities by the SU to study until something like 3 am.

I have friends in trinity and when we've been comparing facilities and lecturers theirs haven't come across any better

I don't have an issue with the lecturers and courses themselves (well, I do, but that's a personal issue, and not the theme of this thread) but rather with cutbacks to the library and other areas which, in a university should be considered absolutely essential services. How can UCD call itself a centre of higher education when it spends more on sports and the like than on books?

beardedmaster wrote: »

I fully agree with Twisty (... if that's an ok name)... I've only been here a year and a half, and the lecturers are great at explaining things and VERY approachable.

Again, not the theme of the thread. Well, it wasn't when I started the thread anyway!:D I agree. Most of my lecturers are excellent, and eminently approachable, and I haven't yet had a lecture or tutorial canceled. However, for those who have experienced such things, it really isn't excusable.

Of course the place has its faults, and some lecturers are overpaid, and a hat of money is given to the Elite Sport Scholarships/Ad Astra Academy.. but having a tirade about UCD being so bad and not acknowledging any of its' merits isn't really needed.

Actually, I do think it's needed. We're studying in a university which has decided not to buy new stock for its library. That, to me, is a shocking indictment of the powers that be in the college, and it needs to be expressed. Do you not find it appalling that a centre of higher learning has stopped buying new books?

Besides, we already have a thread for that - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056403284

That thread is for minor irritants. Having one's entire course changed mid-stream because UCD apparently doesn't value knowledge enough to purchase books is somewhat more than irritating.

kkumk

This is my fourth year in UCD and like Twisty & Beardy (?!) I'm pretty happy with the standard of education and the facilities in UCD. All of my lecturers have been fantastic. Only one missed a class (due to a funeral) and it was promptly rescheduled; they are always encouraging us to attend their office hours and more than willing to meet up outside of these times if we ask; they always give individual feedback on our assignments and are generally just very approachable, friendly and interested, despite the fact that I'm just an undergrad!

While I agree that it's terrible that they're not buying any new books, personally I haven't found myself that affected by it. Although my subject, History, does actually require a lot of reading, most of this can be done online now and the Library provides excellent resources in terms of journal access etc. In my opinion this is more valuable, as the journals are updated regularly and they can be used by an unlimited number of students, instead of just buying 30 copies of a book for one course.

The only thing which I find annoying is the money which UCD seems to spend on construction. I accept some changes are necessary eg the revamping of Science, but a lot of the work they're doing just seems to be for the sake of it, for example that random gravel courtyard beside the lake. They should perhaps use that money on better Library resources instead.

Pandoras Twist

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Well I mean that's all those lecturers in UCD know about; money-making. Fine people to teach commerce, money-making and that. If we had less businessmen in education we'd be living an Aristotelian dream.

Hardly an accurate description of a commerce degree. It covers law, human resources, economics and social and ethical concerns. It's not as if we're taught to be cut throat entrepreneurial types.

beardedmaster wrote: »

I fully agree with Twisty (... if that's an ok name)

Haha I love it!

I'd agree with the points about the construction work and I think the SU budget seriously needs to be examined (cutting the class rep training piss up budget for one), as well as cutting wages at the top.

But on the whole I think we have good facilities. Our library is open later than other colleges, our email/blackboard system is better than others too (I was in DCU previously and find the IT in UCD far better).

OneOfThem Stumbled

Einhard wrote: »

The course I'm in recommenced last Monday. Most of the class have essays, projects and assignments due over the next few weeks. Judging from the people around campus, we're not the only course back early. And yet, despite all this, and despite the large sums I and others are paying to UCD, the library shut up shop every night at 6pm. This really isn't good enough for a college which claims to aspire to the acme of educational standards. In order to work on the assignments due, I had to use Dublin City libraries services. Surely if these libraries can stay open until 8pm, then UCD library can do so also?

Well from Monday it will open until 10pm :pac:

pljudge321

Tis a bit ridiculous that the library has been shutting at 17:30 for the past two weeks considering the amount of final year students in various course that are writing up their theses.

Pandoras Twist

pljudge321 wrote: »

Tis a bit ridiculous that the library has been shutting at 17:30 for the past two weeks considering the amount of final year students in various course that are writing up their theses.

The vast majority of students are not in college, they've prioritised their resources (commendably). If its 9-5.30 that's still 8 and a half hours of time to work on it a day.

Mardy Bum

Fad wrote: »

As unfair as I think it is for the staff there, I see no value in that print centre.... It serves a minority of students, and there are other places to print stuff on campus

It serves almost every arts subject in UCD and has left a great deal of lecturers in the difficult situation of being unable to distribute material protected by copyright which may now have to be purchased by students instead of being able to print the selected material and avoid copyright infringement.

They should have scaled down the service instead of getting rid of it completely.

Pandoras Twist

Mardy Bum wrote: »

It serves almost every arts subject in UCD and has left a great deal of lecturers in the difficult situation of being unable to distribute material protected by copyright which may now have to be purchased by students instead of being able to print the selected material and avoid copyright infringement.

They should have scaled down the service instead of getting rid of it completely.

Can it not be put on blackboard?

Mardy Bum

Pandoras Twist wrote: »

Can it not be put on blackboard?

Some stuff cannot because it infringes copyright. I'm not sure how photocopying the material avoids this legality but it does so lawfully anyway.

MissRealist

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and defend my program too. Not the science omnibus in general, I had some pretty woeful lecturers in first year and from what I hear they haven't gotten any better, but with the pharmacology program I have little to fault. Our labs run like clockwork, all our demonstrators are PhD students who know what they're talking about. We submit reports, we get them back with decent feedback where necessary and everyone is happy. I've had just about everyone on the department staff as a lecturer now and they've all been punctual, helpful and very very informative. Lectures are cancelled if needs be and re-run where in any way possible. I'm pretty sure in three years I can say I've only been in one lecture within that department where we were not notified about an absence and I'd call that pretty good...

Now that isn't to say there's no problems, science as a whole has a lot of problems that need to be sorted (like the fact that nobody from the normal student right up to the top of the SU knows what the story is with the redevelopment work going on - don't even start me on that!) In core modules outside the actual PHAR

---

bracket we have had some fairly substantial problems, mostly with labs but with the odd lecturer too. Science in a lot of areas is a shambles, UCD in most areas is a shambles - there is absolutely no excuse for not having up to date books in an academic library, but I am one of the lucky minority that have a decent program and I think the programs that are decent within UCD should be defended, because hey, it takes a lot to be a decent program in UCD in it's current state

stop

HavingCrack wrote: »

I'll give an example from my own department-geography. We don't even have labs which means no chemical analysis can be undertaken. We do no fieldwork whatsoever, all the degree consists of is lectures. Clearly finances play a part but somewhere a decision was made not to provide geography in UCD with lab facilites. Furthermore there has been no attempt to link up with the science departments to 'borrow' labs, if this is even possible.

afaik there are facilities in the Biology Building which are used by the Geography Dept. The new Science building will have massive non department specific labs iirc.

Fad

MissRealist wrote: »

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and defend my program too. Not the science omnibus in general, I had some pretty woeful lecturers in first year and from what I hear they haven't gotten any better, but with the pharmacology program I have little to fault. Our labs run like clockwork, all our demonstrators are PhD students who know what they're talking about. We submit reports, we get them back with decent feedback where necessary and everyone is happy. I've had just about everyone on the department staff as a lecturer now and they've all been punctual, helpful and very very informative. Lectures are cancelled if needs be and re-run where in any way possible. I'm pretty sure in three years I can say I've only been in one lecture within that department where we were not notified about an absence and I'd call that pretty good...

Now that isn't to say there's no problems, science as a whole has a lot of problems that need to be sorted (like the fact that nobody from the normal student right up to the top of the SU knows what the story is with the redevelopment work going on - don't even start me on that!) In core modules outside the actual PHAR

---

bracket we have had some fairly substantial problems, mostly with labs but with the odd lecturer too. Science in a lot of areas is a shambles, UCD in most areas is a shambles - there is absolutely no excuse for not having up to date books in an academic library, but I am one of the lucky minority that have a decent program and I think the programs that are decent within UCD should be defended, because hey, it takes a lot to be a decent program in UCD in it's current state

To be perfectly fair, you have just been very lucky with the lab situation, most labs suffer very very inconsistent demonstator standards. That is across the board in science, and I've been in Physics, Biology, Chemistry and Computer Science labs, and I have encountered DIRE demonstrators in all of them.

The library thing is a joke for some courses, but to be fair, more undergrad texts in science are stocked than any person could possibly ever need, newer editions are almost never needed. We still have access to a ridiculous amount of online material too.

I could write a very very specific list of some serious problems associated with the CS dept (Or at least specific lecturers in the department), but I really dont want that traced back to me personally, I bother them enough...

Doug89

Aren't they moving the print bureau to copi-print in arts?

MissRealist

Fad wrote: »

To be perfectly fair, you have just been very lucky with the lab situation, most labs suffer very very inconsistent demonstator standards. That is across the board in science, and I've been in Physics, Biology, Chemistry and Computer Science labs, and I have encountered DIRE demonstrators in all of them.

The library thing is a joke for some courses, but to be fair, more undergrad texts in science are stocked than any person could possibly ever need, newer editions are almost never needed. We still have access to a ridiculous amount of online material too.

I could write a very very specific list of some serious problems associated with the CS dept (Or at least specific lecturers in the department), but I really dont want that traced back to me personally, I bother them enough...

Oh I know I've been more than a little lucky, I don't deny that for a minute. Science has some absolutely dire issues, and the library is pretty well stocked on science in general but I have encountered problems with course specific texts. There's just never enough of them, especially since we share a lot of those texts with the med students...

Demonstrator standards in general are just appalling. I think pharm have a rule to say they have to be PhD (Don't ask me how they wrangled that one because I have no idea.) They've definitely done something to seriously encourage it. I had one particular BMOL module last year where we could have taught the lab better than the demonstrator we had...

HavingCrack

stop wrote: »

afaik there are facilities in the Biology Building which are used by the Geography Dept. The new Science building will have massive non department specific labs iirc.

If there are such facilities I've never heard of any undergraduate's using them. That isn't to say they don't exist but no one I know has ever been inside of one.

Non-department specific labs are long overdue.

nannerlm

My own experience with UCD so far as a mature, 20-something student studying Music has been outstanding. The faculty have been professional, are truly dedicated teachers, and while it is true the library really needs much improvement, the staff themselves are very helpful, and overall it is MUCH easier to use than Trinity. My own experience with Trinity was bleak - the courses were a mess, the lecturers very highly regarded academics with little interest in teaching. I could not recommend UCD highly enough, though reading some of the posts here it is clear the choice of program is crucial too.

Like anything, it is impossible to make sweeping statements like UCD is crap, or UCD is great - each student's experience will differ based on faculty, resources, support and, most importantly, what they are used to/where they are coming from.

Tupamaros

nannerlm wrote: »

My own experience with UCD so far as a mature, 20-something student studying Music has been outstanding. The faculty have been professional, are truly dedicated teachers, and while it is true the library really needs much improvement, the staff themselves are very helpful, and overall it is MUCH easier to use than Trinity. My own experience with Trinity was bleak - the courses were a mess, the lecturers very highly regarded academics with little interest in teaching. I could not recommend UCD highly enough, though reading some of the posts here it is clear the choice of program is crucial too.

Like anything, it is impossible to make sweeping statements like UCD is crap, or UCD is great - each student's experience will differ based on faculty, resources, support and, most importantly, what they are used to/where they are coming from.

+1

My experience has thus far been extremely positive. The staff in SPIRe are extremely professional and I have faced no problems with my course. My lecturers have been friendly and approachable apart from with emails with can prompt one line responses, if that (which is understandable to be honest given their workload). I'm thinking though, as a masters student, lecturers have more respect/time for you as a rule.

TBH it's a bit sad to have lecturers worrying about the state of the library and asking students to make sure when accessing journals to do so through the library to ensure this is counted by the system, and therefore the journal sub is more likely to be retained. UCD is a great college, it needs the basic resources.